Why do we keep upgrading our tools?

[Frederick Skelly]

I see it in sharpening, somewhat in saws and a lot in planes. Heck, like I said - Im trying not to buy that LV Low Angle Jack because I already own a serviceable #5. Others have said similar things.

So why do we do it? Is it just simple minded monkey-ness that I want a new shiny toy? Thats not usually me, and Im certainly not a status-seeker. (You know the type. Theyre in every hobby. They come in and spend a ton just to tell you what they have.)

And I really dont want to collect planes just to have them. I dont have the space.

And unlike many of you, Im not planing raw lumber into useful boards. I have a lunchbox planer for that.

Im think fascinated with planes because of the flexibility they give me - with practice, I should be able to use a plane and handsaw shape nearly anything. But I have the basics. Why do I want/need more than one copy of a single size?

Just kind of a conversation I wanted to have and see your views/thoughts.

Fred

[Sean Hughto]

Seritonin.

[Ron Brese]

For the majority woodworking is not a full time profession, it's a time when we enjoy ourselves thru a craft. In other words it's recreation. Nice tools help people gain more enjoyment from the time they have to spend in their shop.

I used a cheap import lathe for a long time. I had the occasion to help a friend move his new lathe into his shop space and it occurred to me at that time there were much nicer tools for turning than what I had. I then sought out a 1966 Powermatic 90 lathe and spent a couple weeks doing a total restore on that machine. I use that machine on a professional basis but I still gain an incredible amount of enjoyment from using that tool. Do I need a Powermatic 90 to turn plane knobs. No I don't, however that machine allows me to work much more efficiently and accurately and I enjoy that immensely. I upgraded and reaped the rewards of doing so.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-urifqHTOUmw/VF1D8K8nRAI/AAAAAAAABjQ/Cr3JqgDGyZQ/s1000/res4.jpg

[Malcolm Schweizer]

For me the tools are part of the hobby. I enjoy trying new tools. Also as my skill increases I actually see the difference in high end tools where before I did not. I started a few years ago upgrading all my tools one ebay deal or free shipping offer at a time. I eventually want to retire to this. I see it as retirement savings.

Except the sharpening stuff, which is admittedly overkill to go as far as I have. I just enjoy sharpening and that goes back to childhood competitions with my brothers to see who can get their knives sharpest. There is no need for a 16000 grit stone except in shaving. It's just fun seeing how much of a mirror edge you can get. I won't pretend.

[Chris Hachet]

Seritonin.


I certainly have hit the point in saws and chisels that I need no more....my plane count has dropped from 20 plus to eleven....

Two planes more I think I want.....one more dedicated smoother and a Low angle jointer. But they are for specific needs in my shop.

I use a Sweetheart (the new version) #4 Stanley and and ECE Primus smooth plane-the Sweetheart I find myself using as a small jack often, and the ECE plane works well but it takes awhile to get set up properly and lacks mass. So I would like one more smoother as a dedicated final finish plane.

Likewise, I use a wooden jointer, which works great for face grain, but would like a jointer with a lower center of gravity for edge grain.

Other than that, it's pretty much lumber for me....although I think I would not mind a 14-12 Laguna bandsaw to upgrade my jet 14". But I think that would genuinely be a tool I would use, as I have built and restored lots of traditional furniture. Would like to try some Asian and contemporary designs, hence the eventual need for a better bandsaw.

[george wilson]

I think some of the other posts say it well: As we get into the work we learn more Then,as our knowledge of tools increase,and (hopefully,though some do not), our artistic vision gets better,we begin to see better and more pleasing tools than we previously had.

My focus in the 50's and 60's was so much on the instruments I was making(and rightly so!),I just used a Stanley block plane. Later on,I saw better tools and became more acquisitive. Now,I have WAYYYYY too many tools in spite of my present large shop. I have trouble finding places to put them. I like them too much to thin the herd out.

Nice lathe,Ron. I currently have a 1960's Oliver. Good,original paint,too. These crank-the -handle variable speed lathes,like ours, only go down to 500 RPM. I wish my Oliver would go slower,but it is 1 phase,and has a special motor. If I need to go really slow,I can use my 16" metal lathe,which will swing 24" in the gap,or I could use it outboard. I got a 20" General for the shop at work. It had electronics to control the speed,as well as the pulleys. A very nice lathe to use. But,someone scratched the top of the headstock,and I could not even get them to send a little can of touchup paint,or even answer my request. Very poor customer support for an expensive machine.

[Zach Dillinger]

I can't say I constantly upgrade my tools, but I do buy more old planes and chisels that I need. I justify it by saying that, someday, I might use up my planes and will need others. That is a lame excuse of course but, hey, it could happen. I think the real reason for a lot of guys belongs in a Highlander-like movie. There can only be one.

[Daniel Rode]

Perhaps if I had massive cash to burn, I would build a showroom and collect tools. I'm hardly immune to the lure of vintage tools or the new premium tools. However, I'm not today a collector. I'm just a hobby woodworker on a budget. The result is that I focus on finding tools that are primarily functional and that don't duplicate another tool unnecessarily.

In general, I don't do much upgrading. That may change when my kids finish college :)

[Maurice Ungaro]

Well, as a noob, I went for bargain basement deals. Some of them panned out, others, not so much. But that's just me I'm speaking for. Some of those tools I've passed on to others, and they're tickled with them. So, someone happily gets use out of them. When I tried some of the better makes out there, I was pleased with the noticeable performance improvement. Most of my new made better quality planes (not to name any names, but take my LEE VALLEY planes for example), were mostly purchased second hand, or on sale from LV. I've got a lot of vintage chisels, and some are my go to users, but when I had the chance to snap up a pre owned set of LN, I jumped on it. Haven't regretted it one bit. They are a dream (for me) to use.

Understand, I've been building my stock of hand tools over 14 years, which is nothing compared to guys like George (nobody compares to either his skill or amassed tools!), and others. Yet, it's given me time to understand what I appreciate, and what makes the hobby more enjoyable. Don't get me wrong, I recently picked up some vintage pig sticker mortise chisels from Ed Lebetkin. The 5/8" one has a lot of patina and character, and will need a fair amount of restoration. May end up as a 9/16" before it's over, but nothing chops a mortise like em.

[Jeffrey Martel]

I'm upgrading now because I bought mostly cheap crappy tools for a while, and they are getting to the point of needing replacement. Add into the fact that I'm just getting into hand tool work more and more, and I need to actually acquire tools in order to do certain things.

I don't think I'll ever get to the point of having multiples, because that just doesn't seem practical to me. My sharpening setup isn't exactly outrageous. I'm still using a piece of granite tile, sandpaper, and a honing guide.

That being said, in the last month or so, I've picked up a LV Low angle Smoother, a Stanley #8, and as of this morning, a Disston 12 crosscut. And those won't be the last.

[Brian Holcombe]

I don't replace/upgrade so much as I acquire more. Through improving my skillset in this area of woodworking (hand tools) I've developed an appreciation for what I like and I've moved away from what I dislike. This is just part of the process and I'm happy enough that I hit the nail on the head with my first few purchases and they've remained very useful to me.

Sometimes you just dont know what you're missing until you try it. My biggest folly has been chisels, but I live without much regret as I plan to hand them off to my father so that he can utilize more hand tools in his own shop. Same with my sharpening stones, I've had them for 15 years or so, so the upgrade is without much inner strife and they'll be passed along to my father who will use them them.

[Ron Brese]

Nice lathe,Ron. I currently have a 1960's Oliver. Good,original paint,too. These crank-the -handle variable speed lathes,like ours, only go down to 500 RPM.

At some point there won't be anymore machines to salvage parts from to keep these older Reeves drives going. I changed the drive on my lathe by adding a 3 phase motor which allowed me to increase the HP and vfd for electronic variable speed. The movable pulley was changed to a stationary pulley. The speed adjuster fills the hole in the headstock but is otherwise a non functional element.

Basically I upgraded to the type drive you would get on one of the better new lathes.

Ron

[bob blakeborough]

I just plain like nice things, and I am far from being considered well off. I would love to drive a Ferrari but I could never even remotely dream of affording one so I drive a basic regular cab base model Ford, but I CAN afford some nice Ferrari-like tools so I do buy them if I want them. It doesn't really make me a better woodworker but it does give me a smile handling such beautiful and functional pieces, so as long as I can afford them, I have no problem upgrading my less prestigious tools. I work hard, make sure my wife and kids have a roof over their heads, food to eat, clothes to wear, and a few small luxuries here and there. I wear $17.00 costco jeans, whatever socks and underwear are on sale and t-shirts that are 3 for $25. Tools is where I choose to throw around a little extra fun money just for me...

[Reinis Kanders]

Some buy hot tubs, I am about to buy fancy vise from LV:)

[glenn bradley]

If I can honestly say that I am being hindered by the tool and not by my skills, I would upgrade (if possible) rather than continue to be hindered.

[Jim Koepke]

For me, an upgrade is usually for a specific purpose. My LN #62 was purchased mostly for use as a shooting plane due to shoulder problems from a long ago cycling accident.

Most of the time when a good plane comes along at a good price, it gets fixed up and sold to raise money to buy tools that are not already in the shop. I tend to sell the Bedrocks and keep the Baileys for myself.

As to having multiple tools it does help at times when I don't want to stop and sharpen or if the two are set up for different uses.

There is also the thought toward my grandchildren. Not sure how many will be interested in having grandpa's tools when I am gone. Have to have enough so there isn't a family splitting dispute.

jtk

[Prashun Patel]

Is it just simple minded monkey-ness that I want a new shiny toy? Thats not usually me, and Im certainly not a status-seeker. (You know the type. Theyre in every hobby. They come in and spend a ton just to tell you what they have.)


I highly doubt that the vast majority of upgraders do it for status or for want only of a shiny toy. Do you know a single person who does it for status? I can't think of one.

I do it for the hope (here's where the debate is) of improving my results. Some will argue that it's the maker not the tool that matters, but in my own world, in my own experience, sometimes the tool improves the results.

In power tools (lathes, bandsaws, tablesaws) I am certain the vast majority of people upgrade their tools (with the exception of Sawstop) for more capacity and precision and as a distant second, bells and whistles.

[Chris Hachet]

In power tools (lathes, bandsaws, tablesaws) I am certain the vast majority of people upgrade their tools (with the exception of Sawstop) for more capacity and precision and as a distant second, bells and whistles.

At some point, especially with power tools, they are obsolete. You can put a great tuneup on a handsaw, plane, or chisel and get great results out of a mediocre tool. Your never going to make a basic Craftsman table saw operate like a Powermatic 66 or a Sawstop cabinet saw.

[Frederick Skelly]

I highly doubt that the vast majority of upgraders do it for status or for want only of a shiny toy. Do you know a single person who does it for status? I can't think of one.

Hello Prashun! Maybe "status" was a poor choice of words. Perhaps "bragging rights" is closer/better. But sadly yes, I do know a few to whom owning that very expensive tool - and telling me they have it - seems to be more important to them than making nice things with it. So, I just didnt want to come off that way, which is really why I mentioned it.

[Erik Christensen]

The answer to the question "why did you buy this tool" is different if you are a hobbyist or a professional.

the pro answer is "i can make a profit if I buy this tool" - that is - the cost of acquisition will be repaid by improvements in productivity, quality, new service capabilities, etc.

the hobbyist answer is "I had the $$ and wanted it" - that's it - free society & all that.... which means you can toss your fun/discretionary dollars down whatever rabbit hole you choose - i agree with the attitude that the $$ i save by wearing walmart jeans just gets sent to veritas or lie nielsen..... someone else might choose 100$ jeans instead - and the best part is - we are both RIGHT :)

[Maurice Ungaro]

It's funny. I have more years as a cyclist than I care to mention. I rode my second road bike for over 15 years. If anyone remembers steel frames and downtube friction shifters, that was my ride. That was replaced with a sweet handcrafted Italian job. Loved that bike, and, I appreciated it. Put a lot of miles on it and literally rode the snot out of it. Didn't get my first carbon fiber bike until 2005. Still have it, and it rides as good as the day I got it.

Why bring all this up? Well, in the bike world, I see all types out there. One can buy the top of the line number that the pros ride. Doesn't mean you ARE a pro, or even ride like one. Doesn't matter. I see many who get into cycling because their friend does it. They buy the same high end number, because, they don't know any different. Whatever. I also see a lot of bikes that are 2 years old and for sale because 1) they really don't ride as much as they thought they would, or 2) they have to have the latest go-faster bling. Bully for them. I'll save the discussion about their abilities and road knowledge for another day.

Me? I keep stuff a long time and only replace stuff that gets worn out or broken. Oh sure, I have a lot of "wish list items", but, that's just day dream stuff for down the road.

[Tony Zaffuto]

To the point of the OP, my wife and I have plenty and do not live high on the hog, though we spend on what we like. For her, it is shoes and clothes. For me, it is tools and guns. We do not travel much, though we get extended weekends in multiple times per year, generally to historical places. Older daughters married off, still have a 15 year old at home and she's bound & determined to take over the family business (manufacturing plant).

Again to the point, we do exactly what we enjoy.

[Frederick Skelly]

Older daughters married off, still have a 15 year old at home and she's bound & determined to take over the family business (manufacturing plant).

She sounds like a smart young lady Tony. Good for her! I hear PA has some pretty good business schools to help her get there.
Fred

[Frederick Skelly]

Thanks for all your thoughts, views and ideas guys. After thinking about my personal 'why' all day, I think its a combination of two things you mentioned. First, I really like trying out new tools and Ive been reading how great that Low Angle Jack is for two years. I dont need it. I want to try it out. And second, I like nice things too when I can afford them.

Look forward to hearing more of your views on this topic.
Fred

[Paul Sidener]

I don't upgrade. I believe in buying the last tool first. I actually save money that way. It takes me a long time to save and buy tools that way, but I don't have multiples of the same tools.

[Jeff Heath]

Nice job on the PM 90, Ron. I have a serious appreciation for OWWM's.

[Jim Koepke]

I don't have multiples of the same tools.

You say that as if it is a bad thing.

Though it is understandable for folks who do not want to have more tools than are absolutely needed. For me it is comforting to have some tools that are not so nice that there is a reluctance toward using them on rougher wood or to trim the edge of some linoleum that was glued to the top of a cabinet.

There must be at least ten 1/4" chisels in my shop. Before two get customized with skewed edges there needs to be a few more. Most likely another Stanley socket chisel or a Buck tang chisel so they can be made as a matched set.

As for marking gauges it is convenient to have more than one or even one type. Today one of my old wooden Stanley marking gauges with a slitter tip was used for scribing the edges of rabbets. It isn't the best one for marking across grain.

Though for now it is unlikely any more bench planes will be acquired by me, unless one comes my way at a price that can not be refused. Mostly those are bought to resale.

jtk

[Tony Zaffuto]

She sounds like a smart young lady Tony. Good for her! I hear PA has some pretty good business schools to help her get there.
Fred

Penn State, like the rest of us: me, wife, both older daughters, both older daughters husbands, 2 of the older daughters in-laws!

Mechanical engineer, but also wants an MBA.

[Brian Holcombe]

I highly doubt that the vast majority of upgraders do it for status or for want only of a shiny toy. Do you know a single person who does it for status? I can't think of one.

I do it for the hope (here's where the debate is) of improving my results. Some will argue that it's the maker not the tool that matters, but in my own world, in my own experience, sometimes the tool improves the results.

In power tools (lathes, bandsaws, tablesaws) I am certain the vast majority of people upgrade their tools (with the exception of Sawstop) for more capacity and precision and as a distant second, bells and whistles.

I bought a digital mitutoyo micrometer today and without a justifiable reason. I became comfortable working with precision equipment in my late teens and have always felt handicapped without it, but for all intents and purposes completely useless for woodworking, so sometimes there is a 'shiny thing' factor involved.

[paul cottingham]

I find myself actually selling tools now. I bought things I thought I needed, but are actually not all that useful in my world. I don't have a lot of duplicates (except marking gauges, compasses, and dividers, but who doesn't?) not even in chisels.

Frankly, part of that is because my "disability" restricts my spending power, so I'm now pretty picky about what I buy. When I buy a tool, I hope it will do its job well, and for a long time. I have a somewhat "Schwarzian" attitude towards tools now. Good tools, and not that many.

so I don't upgrade too much any more. For both philosophical and financial reasons.

oh, and I'm a hack. So I dont need lots of new shiny tools, when the old ones work fine.

also, I don't want my wife to kill me. :-)

[Tom M King]

I bought a digital mitutoyo micrometer today and without a justifiable reason. I became comfortable working with precision equipment in my late teens and have always felt handicapped without it, but for all intents and purposes completely useless for woodworking, so sometimes there is a 'shiny thing' factor involved.
Useful for measuring shaving thickness. I bought this one a long time ago just for that purpose.

[Dave Anderson NH]

I hope you are making her work on the plant floor Tony. Because of general male attitudes in manufacturing it'll be hard enough for her without being viewed as just another "suit" in the front office. An ME degree with an MBA is a hard combination to beat given a time working as a first line supervisor and/or an engineer. Kudos to her.

[Brian Holcombe]

Useful for measuring shaving thickness. I bought this one a long time ago just for that purpose.

Indeed, I see that it is quite practical. Is that a lady bug on the vise?

[Shawn Pixley]

I've been thinking a lot along these lines. Man, the tool maker, advances throuh his use of tools. Tool acquisition is a proxy for fitness for survival. Tool acquisition hampers a nomadic lifestyle, leading us to settle in one place. Fast forward to modern times. This habit of collecting tools / accoutrements clutters our domiciles today.

Currently, I am trying to weed out the tools to the good essential tools. Now if I could do the same with guitars...:D

[Jim Koepke]

Currently, I am trying to weed out the tools to the good essential tools.

My experience with doing this is every time a tool is sold, traded or given away it is needed somewhere down the line. The only time sellers remorse hasn't come to visit is when there have been others tools of the same type to take its place. Even with duplicates, letting go of some tools has brought about more than one moment of regret.

It is kind of like running into an old friend when a tool hasn't seen the light of day for a decade and then is all of a sudden the only one to save the day. I guess as long as I can remember where it is and that it is around the brain is okay.

jtk

[Tony Zaffuto]

I hope you are making her work on the plant floor Tony. Because of general male attitudes in manufacturing it'll be hard enough for her without being viewed as just another "suit" in the front office. An ME degree with an MBA is a hard combination to beat given a time working as a first line supervisor and/or an engineer. Kudos to her.

I baby sat her in my office while she was only months old Dave! Last summer (she was 14 then) she worked a couple days a week on the floor, doing tasks for the quality department. I instructed those she worked with to not do her jobs. A few insisted in standing over her and my general manager instructed them to not do that. By the end of summer she was as dirty as everyone else and eating lunch with them all.

I'm not tech savy enough to post pictures of my plant (powder metal parts manufacturing), but if someone were to PM me their email, I send off some photos or short videos of my operation.

T.Z.

[Maurice Ungaro]

I find myself actually selling tools now. I bought things I thought I needed, but are actually not all that useful in my world.

Paul, last year I culled tools and stuff I was either not happy with, no longer needed, or just shouldn't have purchased to begin with. With the proceeds from that sell off, I bought useful tool that fit my work style now. Thinking about it, I should probably make it a habit to periodically cull the herd and trim the fat.

[Prashun Patel]

Shiny thing is different from status symbol.

[Shawn Pixley]

My experience with doing this is every time a tool is sold, traded or given away it is needed somewhere down the line. The only time sellers remorse hasn't come to visit is when there have been others tools of the same type to take its place.

jtk

I guess I haven't seen it quite that way. I wouldn't get rid of tools that have utility that I don't have a replacement for. For instance, I don't use my large 16 lb sledge but once every few years. I won't get rid of it as when you need a sledge, you need a sledge. Same with a sawzall, railroad bar, etc... But I have only one of most sizes of chisels. I don't have a chisel wider than 1" because I haven't needed it.

But I have wheel ramps for a car that haven't been used in 15 years. My wall level was broken a while back. I won't replace it until I need to frame a wall again. I have been given planes, router templates, dovetail jigs, etc... They need to go. I might, could, maybe, possibly need use them in the future. But they clutter and interfere with my today.

I think I am going towards a minimalist approach. I am also gravitating to the theory that constraints enable and advance creativity.

[Paul Sidener]

You say that as if it is a bad thing.

Though it is understandable for folks who do not want to have more tools than are absolutely needed. For me it is comforting to have some tools that are not so nice that there is a reluctance toward using them on rougher wood or to trim the edge of some linoleum that was glued to the top of a cabinet.

There must be at least ten 1/4" chisels in my shop. Before two get customized with skewed edges there needs to be a few more. Most likely another Stanley socket chisel or a Buck tang chisel so they can be made as a matched set.

As for marking gauges it is convenient to have more than one or even one type. Today one of my old wooden Stanley marking gauges with a slitter tip was used for scribing the edges of rabbets. It isn't the best one for marking across grain.

Though for now it is unlikely any more bench planes will be acquired by me, unless one comes my way at a price that can not be refused. Mostly those are bought to resale.

jtk

I suppose I could have phrased that a little better. Things like bench planes, I don't think I need 2 or 3 #7's. Some can justify it, I can't for what I do. Buy a good one the first time, save yourself time and money and frustration. There are things I have extra of, most layout tools come to mind. My budget can't afford to have too many extras. But I will save up my money for a quality tool from Lie Nielsen or Veritas, and many others. I just don't want to buy something to get by, and later on replace it. That just will cost more in the long run. Not to mention, it pisses my wife off.

[Jim Koepke]

I just don't want to buy something to get by, and later on replace it. That just will cost more in the long run. Not to mention, it pisses my wife off.

I can agree with that. Cheap tools can be very expensive to keep replacing. They can be especially frustrating if you are up stinky creek when that bargain paddle breaks.

I usually try to avoid letting SWMBO know I made a tool purchasing mistake. She already knows about so many of my other mistakes. :eek:

Though at the moment there are two #8s in my shop that will not be a permanent condition. I am starting to question whether two #6s are serving any purpose. I know there are too many of some other planes. One of these days a new shiny tool will get me to sell off a bunch so the new one will have room in the purchasing budget. Especially if a better bandsaw makes itself known to me.

jtk

[Tom M King]

Indeed, I see that it is quite practical. Is that a lady bug on the vise?
A pop-up ad just showed up for a digital Mitutoyo micrometer, so I clicked on it and saw the current price. I remember paying aboutd $38 for the one in my picture. I don't remember when I bought it, but it was probably also when Hondas were cheap cars.

[Brian Holcombe]

And they're still pretty cheap by comparison to the digital depth gauge and bore gauge. I wanted one of each because I find them pretty useful..,.but not at current pricing, lol.

[Rich Riddle]

If I can honestly say that I am being hindered by the tool and not by my skills, I would upgrade (if possible) rather than continue to be hindered.

Using this principle, I would still utilize grandfather's keyhole saw left in a bucket of water. That's about where my skill level sits and doesn't budge.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

I've been thinking a lot along these lines. Man, the tool maker, advances throuh his use of tools. Tool acquisition is a proxy for fitness for survival. Tool acquisition hampers a nomadic lifestyle, leading us to settle in one place. Fast forward to modern times. This habit of collecting tools / accoutrements clutters our domiciles today.

Currently, I am trying to weed out the tools to the good essential tools. Now if I could do the same with guitars...:D

Does it ever. Having been in the process of switching back to a more nomadic lifestyle recently, I can say that the accumulation of tools certainly does hinder that quest. Much more of this nomadic nonsense and I'm going to get rid of it all and shop at ikea, which will start the cycle all over again. Maybe it's just a chronic affliction that those of us who can see a better way to do something must suffer through?

[Shawn Pixley]

I think I wrote my comment less precisely than I should. I am not going for a nomadic lifestyle, but rather paring back to what I really need and use. When something comes into the house, something within must leave. Over the last week or two I have tried to cull as many things from the Garage / Shop as possible.

Leaving are: Work cart and drawer storage unit, freestanding router table, chest freezer, old pressed steel table saw wings, unused dust collection fittings, Drill Doctor, Powered hand planer, Spare Router and wood scrap that seemed like a good idea to save at the time.

Also leaving: Tool shaped objects (hand Planes) that people pick up to give to me that either can't be made to work or are not worth the effort to rehab / re-manufacture. I love the gesture, but the objects are just in the way. Yesterday LOML brought back a very rusty Disston saw. It had a good bow in the blade two minor kinks, the original plastic handle (thoroughly broken). "But it said Disston. I thought they made good saws?" All things are not equal.

[Maurice Ungaro]

"But it said Disston. I thought they made good saws?" All things are not equal.
As we say in the South, bless her heart....

[Tony Zaffuto]

Depends: was the plastic two tone? Might be "bakelite", D-95.

[John Sanford]

Reasons for upgrading:


Better functionality. Upgraded from 12.5" lunchbox planer and 6" PM jointer to MiniMax FS30 12" Jointer/Planer. Better functionality can mean any of the following, singly or in combination: safer, faster, more accurate, less messy, more durable, less space, better surface, lower operating cost, easier setup, more convenient, more flexible, more power, more capacity.
Multiples for convenience. Recently added the new Veritas Custom Jack to my herd, supplanting a vintage #5 Bailey pattern that was sharp and useable, but troublesome. I already have a Veritas BU Jack, but wanted to set this new one up with some good camber.
Try out and compare different approaches to the same problem.
Because I like good tools, and not all of mine are good, although I'm getting there.



I enjoy my tools, in and of themselves, apart from what I do accomplish with them.

[Frederick Skelly]

Reasons for upgrading:


Better functionality. Upgraded from 12.5" lunchbox planer and 6" PM jointer to MiniMax FS30 12" Jointer/Planer. Better functionality can mean any of the following, singly or in combination: safer, faster, more accurate, less messy, more durable, less space, better surface, lower operating cost, easier setup, more convenient, more flexible, more power, more capacity.
Multiples for convenience. Recently added the new Veritas Custom Jack to my herd, supplanting a vintage #5 Bailey pattern that was sharp and useable, but troublesome. I already have a Veritas BU Jack, but wanted to set this new one up with some good camber.
Try out and compare different approaches to the same problem.
Because I like good tools, and not all of mine are good, although I'm getting there.



I enjoy my tools, in and of themselves, apart from what I do accomplish with them.

All good reasons John. The last is especially well put.

[Dennis Aspö]

I have it easy, I just keep one of each because I can't afford more. I have a #4 and #3½ Stanley plane and they've been very useful and I use them a lot.

But sure I wish I had more planes, I'd like a #7 jointer, a router plane and a rabbet plane and a small block plane still, perhaps an old wooden plane to act as a scrub plane.

There's a transitional Union #28 plane nearby for sale, but I dunno what I'd do with it, perhaps it could work as a #5 but I don't think I have much need for that when I got my #4 so I think I might pass on it.

All in good time as I find deals I guess. Good thing I own a power jointer/planer I got very cheaply.

[george wilson]

Actually,I have thinned out earlier tool purchases. Usually by giving them to beginner woodworkers I want to help. I never bought tools than DIDN'T work!

Those Costco jeans are quite good. They even have rivets. I could wish for different placement of the belt loops for better ease in locating a cell phone ,Leatherman tool,etc.. The Costco jeans have a watch pocket 5" deep,which I really like! I wear $5.00 blue denim shirts if I can find them that cheap. I bought 17 at Walmart a few years ago at a low sale price. I don't care what they cost. $5.00 or $40.00. They will all wear out on a few years anyway,regardless. One time I did find a batch at Costco for $5.00 each,and bought up a supply. They were as good as any others. They all get worn out by washing machines in a few years. Shocking how much blue fluff gets on the dryer filter.

I finally succumbed last night and bought a Marbles pocket knife for less than $13.00,shipping included. Made in China. An article said they are as good as originals. If not,I'll make a replacement blade from 1095. I just want to check their quality. They are said to be made from 440 stainless. I'm not a fan of stainless,but if true,440 is as good a stainless as most. Perhaps ATS34 might be better. We'll see. Nothing will get as sharp as 1095,or plain carbon steel. But,of course,stainless will not get messed up in your pocket.

Ramble over.

[Dennis McCullen]

Are you still a woodworker or are you now just a tool collector? Denial, denial, denial. Many of the posts on woodworking forums have to do with what tools you have and few very honest folks actually admit that it has taken over their love of making things from wood. From someone who is just trying to start working with hand tools, I find it repulsive that someone admits to having 300 chisels or 50 planes but "is not a collector". The increasing popularity of "traditional" woodworking is one thing, but the fact remains that newbies want to try out working with hand tools and must compete with a large segment of experienced woodworkers (if you can still call them that) who spend most of their effort at collecting more and not necessarily better hand tools. Compare written comments regarding the artistic side - elements of design, etc. to the number of tool gloats and you'll see what I mean. Going against the grain here?

[Brian Holcombe]

....then participate in the design threads which die out in less than a week. They never seem to progress beyond over-arcing likes into the nuts and bolts of design, likely because specific details are not requested during progress. That has happened on occasion and I think the results have been really good, but it does not seem to be a regular request of the board.

there are many varieties of designs which can translate well into hand-tool created works, all of which have a good fallowing on the board here, so we are not without the ability to respond with helpful ideas.

also, I think it's a bit of an unfair gripe, there have been some incredible works created by the posters which regularly post in the neander forum.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Are you still a woodworker or are you now just a tool collector? Denial, denial, denial. Many of the posts on woodworking forums have to do with what tools you have and few very honest folks actually admit that it has taken over their love of making things from wood. From someone who is just trying to start working with hand tools, I find it repulsive that someone admits to having 300 chisels or 50 planes but "is not a collector". The increasing popularity of "traditional" woodworking is one thing, but the fact remains that newbies want to try out working with hand tools and must compete with a large segment of experienced woodworkers (if you can still call them that) who spend most of their effort at collecting more and not necessarily better hand tools. Compare written comments regarding the artistic side - elements of design, etc. to the number of tool gloats and you'll see what I mean. Going against the grain here?

I don't know Dennis, I personally think that LV and LN are doing a good job of selling user tools, which increases the number of them out there. I'd argue that the number of woodworkers is really rather constant, so there probably isn't a shortage. I am a collector too, and quite frankly, the good user grade stuff isn't very interesting for my collection because it's too common. You were speaking of users that don't use though probably. Those guys are preparing to be sellers. Be patient.

[Frederick Skelly]

....then participate in the design threads which die out in less than a week. They never seem to progress beyond over-arcing likes into the nuts and bolts of design, likely because specific details are not requested during progress. That has happened on occasion and I think the results have been really good, but it does not seem to be a regular request of the board.

there are many varieties of designs which can translate well into hand-tool created works, all of which have a good fallowing on the board here, so we are not without the ability to respond with helpful ideas.

also, I think it's a bit of an unfair gripe, there have been some incredible works created by the posters which regularly post in the neander forum.

+1. Well and tactfully said Brian.

[Marc Seguin]

I guess I haven't seen it quite that way. I wouldn't get rid of tools that have utility that I don't have a replacement for. For instance, I don't use my large 16 lb sledge but once every few years. I won't get rid of it as when you need a sledge, you need a sledge. Same with a sawzall, railroad bar, etc... But I have only one of most sizes of chisels. I don't have a chisel wider than 1" because I haven't needed it.
<snip>
I think I am going towards a minimalist approach. I am also gravitating to the theory that constraints enable and advance creativity.

I agree with you completely on taking a minimalist approach to tools. Having more general use tools and knowing how to use them to produce a wide variety of shapes makes more sense to me than having a tray of 300 router bits that only cut one shape each...

The thing that caught my eye was the wider than 1" chisel. I use my 1.5" chisel all the time. I also have a 2" chisel that I wouldn't get rid of because it sees regular use on certain projects. It just goes to show that one woodworkers minimalist set isn't for everybody.

[Shawn Pixley]

Depends: was the plastic two tone? Might be "bakelite", D-95.

I didn't know of the bakelite D95, but after looking it up, no it isn't a D95. It has a hollow plastic handle that is seamed at the center. To me it is a saw shaped object.

[Sean Hughto]

Are you still a woodworker or are you now just a tool collector? Denial, denial, denial. Many of the posts on woodworking forums have to do with what tools you have and few very honest folks actually admit that it has taken over their love of making things from wood. From someone who is just trying to start working with hand tools, I find it repulsive that someone admits to having 300 chisels or 50 planes but "is not a collector". The increasing popularity of "traditional" woodworking is one thing, but the fact remains that newbies want to try out working with hand tools and must compete with a large segment of experienced woodworkers (if you can still call them that) who spend most of their effort at collecting more and not necessarily better hand tools. Compare written comments regarding the artistic side - elements of design, etc. to the number of tool gloats and you'll see what I mean. Going against the grain here?

Dennis, you seem to resent having to compete with others to obtain vintage tools. Rest easy, as if what you are interested in is making great furniture or other works in wood, plenty of new and common vintage user grade tools are available. Let the hoarders hoard if it makes them happy. It will not affect you.

and generally speaking, why the scorn towards tool collectors? If it makes them happy, shoot, the world needs as much happiness as it can get.

As far as the lopsided number of tool posts versus posts about actually working wood, well I think it's pretty easy to understand. Making good works in wood is a form of making art. Making good art is very hard. Talking about aesthetics is hard. Beginners and even intermediates often cannot do it, or at least cannot do it at a level that they are willing to share. Conversely, entry level issues like sharpening and tool choices are largely matters of opinion, and like ah .... exit holes, everybody's got one. In short, tool threads are readily accessible to everyone, design threads ... Not so much.

[Mel Fulks]

Let your friends,... I always presume everyone has some, know of your interest. Sometimes good things move toward good
people. Some pieces that are sought by collectors actually have little practical use. A yard sale hammer may actually be
suitable for pulling out a small nail, a new one won't. Remember a lot of stuff was made and had to be good because a lot
of guys had to provide for their families. It is only now,in our modern prosperity, that some tools are made that won't cut.

[Jim Koepke]

Are you still a woodworker or are you now just a tool collector? Denial, denial, denial. Many of the posts on woodworking forums have to do with what tools you have and few very honest folks actually admit that it has taken over their love of making things from wood. From someone who is just trying to start working with hand tools, I find it repulsive that someone admits to having 300 chisels or 50 planes but "is not a collector".

My explanation of my condition is tool accumulator. It is seldom a tool comes into my shop that doesn't have an intended use unless it is thought to be something that can be sold.

Just because someone enjoys working on old tools or equipment doesn't mean they have to give up the pleasure of working wood. Many of us enjoy working in multiple media, wood and metal just being two of them.

Not sure how many chisels or planes are in my shop. Almost all of them get used often enough to not begrudge them the space they occupy. Even the ones that are intended for sale get used just to make sure they perform to my liking. Not sure if there are a total of 300 chisels and gouges. The counting of planes was given up after it went past 50. No, it isn't my claim that everyone of them is absolutely needed.

When it comes to chisels it is convenient to have sets ground to different angles for use in different woods and situations. For gouges, of course one needs both in cannel and out cannel grinds on most profiles.

My current project is a pair of potting benches. One picture is of cutting a rabbet. It shows a total of five different planes used for the process. My hope is that it helps others to see how easy it is to use a rabbet plane and how other planes can be used to perfect the rabbet.

307542

Another image is of cutting the pin board. There are five chisels in the picture. Surely one can pair a pin board with a single chisel, but for me it is easier being able to switch off on the grip due to an injury to my dominate hand back in the 1950s. The other is sometimes a skew chisel is better than a straight chisel for paring away the waste. Sometimes a short chisel is better when the leverage of a long chisel isn't needed.

307543

If there is time before the farmers market season opens, I will likely document the making of a tea cabinet. If not maybe just the frame and panel door for the one that is already started.

Surely my work could be done with less tools on the shelf. As it is, my enjoyment soars by having an accumulation of tools that can meet and beat most of the challenges a piece of wood can bring to my shop.

So Dennis, your profile doesn't show your location. If you are near me and having trouble finding affordable tools let me know and you will be given a map to my secret hunting grounds and what was seen there of late that didn't make the trip home with me.

jtk

[Tony Zaffuto]

I didn't know of the bakelite D95, but after looking it up, no it isn't a D95. It has a hollow plastic handle that is seamed at the center. To me it is a saw shaped object.

I have a number of "Bakelite D95's" and also have a few other vintage plastic handled saws, one of which is a Disston and (IIRC) has a clear plastic handle. If I get to the shop yet today, I'll dig it out and post the model number.

[Tony Zaffuto]

I looked up the plastic handled saw I was thinking of and it is not a Disston: it is an Atkins "Five Hundred stainless steel" saw. Clear plastic handle, but uncomfortable because of the mold lines. I believe I have another Disston plastic handled saw, besides the Bakelite D-95's. I'm thinking it may be a single color, all brown or black, and when I have a bit more time, will try to figure out what pile of saws it is in.

Both the Bakelite Disstons and this Atkins appear to be "better" saws, and definitely not junkers.

[Shawn Pixley]

I looked up the plastic handled saw I was thinking of and it is not a Disston: it is an Atkins "Five Hundred stainless steel" saw. Clear plastic handle, but uncomfortable because of the mold lines. I believe I have another Disston plastic handled saw, besides the Bakelite D-95's. I'm thinking it may be a single color, all brown or black, and when I have a bit more time, will try to figure out what pile of saws it is in.

Both the Bakelite Disstons and this Atkins appear to be "better" saws, and definitely not junkers..

Here is the "saw" in question.

307570307571307572

The medallian says Disston as does an imprint in the plastic handle on the back next to the saw screw backs. Somehow I doubt that under the rust is a fine saw.

[Tom M King]

I had an old carpenter that worked for me in the mid '80s that had a Disston saw with a plastic handle like that. I remember it as a D-23 but am relying on a 30 year old vague memory. He kept it sharp, and it cut great.

[Tony Zaffuto]

The pic rings a bell with me Shawn! A few years back I picked up a saw with a handle that looked like that-thought it was a D-95 and it was cheap. It was a Disston, but no D-95 markings. I try to figure out where it's stored and post anything additional about it.

The "Bakelite D-95's" were supposedly higher end saws, with two-tone handles. I have at least three color combo's of the handles and a duplicate or two. The saws seem to not be loved by collectors, at least as far as I know.

[Shawn Pixley]

The pic rings a bell with me Shawn! A few years back I picked up a saw with a handle that looked like that-thought it was a D-95 and it was cheap. It was a Disston, but no D-95 markings. I try to figure out where it's stored and post anything additional about it.

The "Bakelite D-95's" were supposedly higher end saws, with two-tone handles. I have at least three color combo's of the handles and a duplicate or two. The saws seem to not be loved by collectors, at least as far as I know.

I am no collector. Okay, I'll clean the rust off. I can always put a new handle of this saw shaped object.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

.

Here is the "saw" in question.

307570307571307572

The medallian says Disston as does an imprint in the plastic handle on the back next to the saw screw backs. Somehow I doubt that under the rust is a fine saw.

Hey, flashback! I had one of those as a kid that someone gave me. Used the bejeebers out of it building all kinds of stuff. Worked perfectly for that. Thanks for the reminder!

[Dennis McCullen]

Mixed reactions from a thought-provoking statement - some read that the resentment is of "denial of collecting" not collecting itself and particularly denial of being a collector, while making few, if any, projects from wood in recent months (perhaps longer). This was my first visit to "Neander" land and certainly enjoyed reading the query "Why do we keep upgrading our tools?". Because we can is simple enough.

"also, I think it's a bit of an unfair gripe, there have been some incredible works created by the posters which regularly post in the neander forum."

..or what about because we progress in our craft and learn the refinements .. such as 3 different lengths of the same bevel edge 1/2" chisel..useful in different situations. I particularly enjoyed Jim's input, demonstrating that that there are refinements in hand tools that a "new user" may not yet be aware of. Not only is he perfecting his product, he is enhancing his work flow by having varying nuances to the same basic tool readily at hand for using. Well done, Jim! "My explanation of my condition is tool accumulator"
Jim- you are a natural-born teacher.Thanks.


... the honest and optimistic.....and he gets it....." I am a collector too, and quite frankly, the good user grade stuff isn't very interesting for my collection because it's too common. You were speaking of users that don't use though probably. Those guys are preparing to be sellers. Be patient."

[Brian Thornock]

Unlike some, I like to try to upgrade my tools from making better ones. I find this to be a great combination of my interests in woodworking, metalworking, and having shiny new tools while not spending a fortune. I am just finishing up a small infill smoother with purpleheart. Not necessarily because my type 13 #4 doesn't work, but to try something new and to have something shiny and pretty to have in the shop as well. I built a really nice infill shoulder plane, but haven't used it on a real project since. Still, it was a great project in and of itself and I am happy I did it. I like to accumulate, I've always been a collector of things, but mostly of things I have made. I have over a dozen guitars, which represents only about half of what I have made. Sure they all have their different uses and no two are alike, but I also like to see them all when I go to play. I find each one inspires different music. I also find that different tools inspire different techniques and projects.

[Frederick Skelly]

Unlike some, I like to try to upgrade my tools from making better ones. I find this to be a great combination of my interests in woodworking, metalworking, and having shiny new tools while not spending a fortune. I am just finishing up a small infill smoother with purpleheart. Not necessarily because my type 13 #4 doesn't work, but to try something new and to have something shiny and pretty to have in the shop as well. I built a really nice infill shoulder plane, but haven't used it on a real project since. Still, it was a great project in and of itself and I am happy I did it. I like to accumulate, I've always been a collector of things, but mostly of things I have made. I have over a dozen guitars, which represents only about half of what I have made. Sure they all have their different uses and no two are alike, but I also like to see them all when I go to play. I find each one inspires different music. I also find that different tools inspire different techniques and projects.

Thanks Brian. This was an interesting perspective.
Fred

[Tom M King]

.

Here is the "saw" in question.

307570307571307572

The medallian says Disston as does an imprint in the plastic handle on the back next to the saw screw backs. Somehow I doubt that under the rust is a fine saw.

I remembered it wrong. d-111? http://www.disstonianinstitute.com/d95page.html#d111

[John Sanford]

I find it repulsive that someone admits to having 300 chisels or 50 planes but "is not a collector".

Hmmm..... 300 chisels? Depends on where their focus in woodworking lies. Ditto for the planes. 50 planes might not even be "enough" for a hand tool woodworker who restores antique pieces. Heck, that's barely a set of hollows and rounds. If someone is a carver, well, just take a look at the # of chisels in pictures of shops where a lot of carving goes on...

All that said, there's no true shortage of tools available to newbs. The tools may not be as dirt cheap as they once were, but there's more reason for that than simply experienced woodworkers hoovering them up. For every old plane that an experienced woodworker snags, I'd venture that at least one other old plane ends up at the dump or recycling center.

[george wilson]

I have many carving tools. But,I am not a collector. I'm just a tool pig!:) Actually,as far as carving tools are concerned,there are very many different shapes and sweeps,so you can build up a pretty large number and not have duplicates. I don't have a large number of planes,or saws. Certainly not as many as some here do.

As I and others have mentioned,as we progress in our knowledge,we ought to gain a better understanding of tool quality,and get better tools as we learn. It's a natural part of learning any trade. Back when I started going to the big flea markets in Pennsylvania,tools like carving tools could be had for a dollar or two. That did encourage buying better tools. Not so these days! Any old junker is apt to be $30 to $40 or more. Last time I went,this guy had 10 or 12 ordinary American made gouges,with the handles painted red. He wanted $875.00! Hopefully,he's still trying to sell them.

[Jim Koepke]

Last time I went,this guy had 10 or 12 ordinary American made gouges,with the handles painted red. He wanted $875.00! Hopefully,he's still trying to sell them.

+1 on that. That is a "not for sale" price. Decent new ones don't cost that much.

jtk

[Tony Zaffuto]

First, Shawn, I can't locate the saw that I "believe" I have like the one you posted. I have another location to look, but I doubt it is there.

Second, I believe George has aptly described many of us! We're "tool pigs" and there is nothing wrong with it! My justification? Here in North Central Penna., there are many antique malls, flea markets, etc., and vintage tools are still readily available. For example at the Hazen Flea market (Exit 97 on I-80) last summer, I picked up several hand saws for a couple of bucks each. D-8's (IIRC), had hand cut wood saw guard on, very dirty, but blades were straight AND SHARP! Who wouldn't pick up a couple of saws for less than $5.00, that are immediately useable? Dave Weaver & I both know of an antique mall on PA Route 30 in Fayetteville, PA (we've posted the location here several times), where there is always a pile of project saws for a couple of bucks each. Root through the pile and you will find saws that are straight, have good wood, etc. So, over the past decades, doing this multiple times per year has caused me to have close to a hundred saws (my quick estimate and there may be more). The same goes for vintage miter boxes-no one wanted them a dozen years or so ago, and I got sixteen fully working ones and another half dozen for parts. Cost? $5.00, $10.00 and maybe $20.00 once for a pristine Stanley 358 w/saw. Who wouldn't rescue and store these tools? Plumb bobs-got well over a hundred different ones. Low angle planes? #4's, #5's? chisels? Why not? They're cheap and buying them gives me far more enjoyment than some other pursuits and as also being a "Civil War artifact pig", our vintage tools are dirt cheap compared to that part of my collector psyche!