Need help identifying this tree. Southern live oak ?

[Craig D Peltier]

Bought this log today to slab and sell from a yard. I was told it was southern live oak. I heard the leaves looked like alder. A arborist said it was southern live oak. I asked if it had walnuts and the cutter said no, I thought it might be English walnut. The tree is 40 inches at both ends and 15 feet in picture on trailer. Growth rings look huge but there must be rings in between these. I have only seen sequoia have rings like that around here. ( Seattle ).



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[Jamie Buxton]

The species that most folks call southern live oak is quercus virginiana. It grows in the southeast US, not the northwest. It is famous for branching close to the ground, with branch diameters almost as large as the trunk. I'm also not seeing any medullary rays. They're usually visible on endgrain in oaks. So I'd say that it is not southern live oak, and it isn't even oak of any sort.

When you slab the trunk, pay attention to the odor. Oak is pretty distinctive.

Look around the neighborhood for trees with similar bark. If this is a planted tree, perhaps others were planted near it. If you can find a bark match, maybe you can find leaves, which would give you additional clues.

[Craig D Peltier]

We do see English walnuts planted here. So maybe it's that. I also know that when trees get to a very mature age there bark isn't always the same as you would know it in its youth.
It grew between two houses very close together, I think the tree had about 15-20 feet max. So it grew straight for a while possibly.
I may get a picture of the leaves tomorrow.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Well - if you look up live oak, there are a bunch of species lumped in there together. I agree that Southern live oak seems a remote possibility, but apparently some of the others do grow SE west thru Calif and into Oregon.

They call them "live oak" because they don't drop leaves. Evergreen, even though the leaves sure would seem to be deciduous.

Jamie is dead-on - the southern version grows in the deep SE, and the structure is unique and, in the specimen quality examples, stunning in the branches and form. Even Atlanta is too far north [and too high elevation] for them. Get down near the GA-FL border, or over along the coast in Savannah, and you will be impressed.

EDIT: Ooops - forgot this bit: I have never seen a southern live oak with a main trunk that straight, nor nearly that long.

[Mel Fulks]

Don't know what it is. But just looked up live oak and they have been successfully planted in Washington state,the Seatle
area is actually a zone warmer than most of Virginia. They are 8 and richmond is 7. The Latinized Virginia botanical name
refers to more states in the southern colonies than Virginia. In va they don't usually do well anywhere other than the
most southern coast.

[Andrew Kertesz]

To me the bark looks like maple of some sort....

[Jim Matthews]

Vertical cracks in bark like this look like Northern Red Oak to me.
(Who is not an arborist.)

If the arborist says Southern live oak - that's likely the case.

If you have a short piece that won't be slabbed,
try to split it along the medullary rays, perpendicular
to the growth rings using an axe.

It if tries to 'jump' apart when struck, I would be pretty sure it's oak.

[Danny Hamsley]

If it is an oak, look at the end grain. You should be able to easily see the medullary rays with the naked eye. Very easily. If you cannot see them, it is not an oak. I can't tell from the pictures. The bark looks more like one of the red oaks. Live oaks down here have rough, knobby bark, not smooth.

[Tom M King]

Southern Live Oak is something like 3300 Janka. Growth rings wouldn't be far apart.

[Robert LaPlaca]

Wow the bark on that trunk sure looks like a Willow Oak to me.. The area that I live in Charlotte planted tons of Willow Oaks in the 1920's. They grow very fast fast for an Oak and they get humongous, pretty scary in a urban setting..

The leaves on a Willow Oak look like a Willow, during the fall acorns like any other Oak.. My nephew has a home in NJ, between his house and the neighbors is the biggest monster of a Willow Oak, that the local arborist identified as a Southern Oak..

[Craig D Peltier]

Thanks, I will look for medular rays. I will call tree cutter now and see if he can get more info. I hope it's not a silve leaf cottonwood.
what a beast , 40 inches at both ends at 15 feet. No taper.

[Scott T Smith]

I don't think that's oak - live or Willow. There are only around 30 growth rings, so the tree is not that old either.

I can't see any signs of medulary rays on the end, and the color of the end grain does not resemble any oak that I have milled. From the end it actually looks like Magnolia to me, but a long, straight trunk is not consistent with Magnolia.

If you get a chance, post a larger photo of the end grain.

[Art Mann]

That trunk looks to me exactly like that of a tree in my back yard. It is referred to here as a water oak. They are extremely common in the Southeast. I think it maybe kin to the live oaks that Kent mentioned, but loses its leaves in the fall. They grow tall and straight if left unpruned but the lumber, at least to me, isn't that attractive. It looks kind of like red oak. I mostly see it used in shipping pallets. I have no idea whether the species will grow in your area. I am going strictly on visual clues and I may very well be wrong.

[Andrew Hughes]

Here's a pic of live oak.Its right out side of my shop I love the tree hate the roots.Most of my neighbors have one in their yard.Planted in the early 50s.So mine is still a baby.Ive seen them in mount baldy that were Giants with branches bigger than my trees trunk.Some have Canopys that start very low to the ground,easy to climb.I live in so cal.Aj

[John C Bush]

Hi Craig,
Bruce will know, or make up a good story. Did the neighbors describe the leaves? Is that spalting visible @ the base cut, i.e., dead tree standing? Wide rings, color variation, spalting??, PNW, -- seems like maple.

Can't rmember if I sent you pics of the table I made with the maple slabs I got from you. Turned out really well and the Town was pleased--it looked great and it was free!! Send pics of the slabs when Bruce is done.

Good luck, John

[Craig D Peltier]

Hi John, I will be slabbing this. I can cut 69 inches so this is a baby. I don't that it's spalt. I will get a pic of leave. That should tell story. I only counted thirty rings, I don't think a tree that big non coniferous can grow that fast? Wide rings but rings within maybe? Need to cut chunk off split it, sand it to see a few things.
I think the center is mineral stained? Brown and black. The bark is weird, maybe half inch thick only. The leaves were shaped a little like alder but more spade like , not jagged either along edge.
Like to see pics of table.



Hi Craig,
Bruce will know, or make up a good story. Did the neighbors describe the leaves? Is that spalting visible @ the base cut, i.e., dead tree standing? Wide rings, color variation, spalting??, PNW, -- seems like maple.

Can't rmember if I sent you pics of the table I made with the maple slabs I got from you. Turned out really well and the Town was pleased--it looked great and it was free!! Send pics of the slabs when Bruce is done.

Good luck, John

[Craig D Peltier]

Here's a picture of one of the leaves.

[Joe Spear]

Here's a picture of one of the leaves.

That's certainly not from a willow oak.

[Robert LaPlaca]

Here's a picture of one of the leaves.

I agree it not a Willow Oak with that leaf profile, lord only knows I have cleaned enough Willow Oak leaves from the gutters of the house and car...

[Art Mann]

It isn't a live oak or water oak either.

[Craig D Peltier]

Maybe cottonwood. I will look at some of there leaves. I will try silver leaf cottonwood first.

[Don Orr]

That could easily be a Cottonwood. Wide growth rings, dark heart, broad leaves. Sorry if you wanted it to be an Oak.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Gotta check the credentials on that arborist...........

Cottonwood is to southern live oak as raspberries are to roses.

[Thomas Hotchkin]

How about Black Cottonwood. Grows from Alaska to California. Tree makes rapid growth, and in the Puget Sound basin tree are found up to 175'-225 and seven to eight feet in diameter.

[Craig D Peltier]

A guy from Montana today told me it was for sure cottonwood.
Thanks