Which Mortiser

[Stew Hagerty]

Ok... Let me say right up front that I am 100% committed to purchasing a Benchtop Mortiser. I have pretty well decided (90%) on one of these two models. I am a hobbyist woodworker. I've never been fond of using a router. The Powermatic tips the scales right at the top of my budget. On the other hand, the Shop Fox is much less expensive, but that significantly lower price is also a bit of a worry about quality and longevity.

So, with that said, here are the 2 choices:

Shop Fox W1671 3/4 HP Heavy-duty Mortising Machine

Powermatic 1791310 PM701 3/4 Horsepower Bench Mortiser

What are your thoughts?

[Len Rosenberg]

Hi Stew. I started in the same place, and after doing much research, concluded that vertical mortisers are too finicky and too much of a compromise for fast, clean, accurate and repeatable work. (I'm sure others will disagree). So I switched my sights to getting a horizontal mortise machine. Much nicer, but way bigger and way more $$$. As I continued to do web searches, I came across the Festool Domino XL700. It is essentially a hand held horizontal mortising machine. I bought one and it has changed the way I do case construction. Fast, perfect, easy. The system uses pre made tenons (same concept as biscuit joinery, but much stronger and a greater range of options). Highly recommend it. Check out the YouTube review by Half Inch Shy (refers to it as the Domzilla). Note that it is designed to be used with a Festool dust extractor, so the combo is not inexpensive by any means. But you can accomplish in 20 minutes what might take 6 hours using mortise and tenon joinery, even with machines.

Have fun,

Len

[Rich Riddle]

From the two options presented, the Powermatic.

[Phil Barrett]

Or just make a mortising jig for your router. I recently needed to cut 16 mortises 3/8" wide by 2 1/8" long. It took about an hour to build the jig and then about 1 hour to cut all 16 mortises. Cost - close to nothing because I have a scrap pile and a few bits of hardware.

[Stew Hagerty]

Hi Stew. I started in the same place, and after doing much research, concluded that vertical mortisers are too finicky and too much of a compromise for fast, clean, accurate and repeatable work. (I'm sure others will disagree). So I switched my sights to getting a horizontal mortise machine. Much nicer, but way bigger and way more $$$. As I continued to do web searches, I came across the Festool Domino XL700. It is essentially a hand held horizontal mortising machine. I bought one and it has changed the way I do case construction. Fast, perfect, easy. The system uses pre made tenons (same concept as biscuit joinery, but much stronger and a greater range of options). Highly recommend it. Check out the YouTube review by Half Inch Shy (refers to it as the Domzilla). Note that it is designed to be used with a Festool dust extractor, so the combo is not inexpensive by any means. But you can accomplish in 20 minutes what might take 6 hours using mortise and tenon joinery, even with machines.

Have fun,

Len


Len,
Sorry, but I should have put I reference to the domino in my initial message. I looked into the domino. For all of 5 seconds until I saw the price. Ok, yes I know I'm going to stir up a big pile of crap now... Typical of Festool, it's 3X more expensive than the alternative. In this case there is no direct alternative because they hold the patents. But it is approximately 3X the price of the Powermatic. And, as I did state in my opening post, the Powermatic wipes out my budget.

[Stew Hagerty]

Or just make a mortising jig for your router. I recently needed to cut 16 mortises 3/8" wide by 2 1/8" long. It took about an hour to build the jig and then about 1 hour to cut all 16 mortises. Cost - close to nothing because I have a scrap pile and a few bits of hardware.

Hi Phil, as I said in my opening post, I am not a fan of using a router to cut mortiser.
If you must know, I have a neurological disorder that causes me to spasm without notice. When that happens, the router goes off course... Ruined piece.

[Rick Lizek]

http://woodcentral.com/articles/reviews/articles_729.shtml
horizontal slot mortiser should be your first choice of course...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RQcClMWeh4

[Rich Riddle]

Folks Stew set up the parameters between two choices, not two choices and whatever you own, want or advise. Is is that difficult to stay in those two parameters?

[Dan Hahr]

Powermatic. I had a Shop Fox. Very cheaply made tool. Motor had some loose metal in it. Bits didn't line up with chisels. Burnt the chisels quickly.

Dan

[Joe Cowan]

I have the Powermatic. Not sure about the other one, but I have zero complaints with mine. SHARPEN THE CHISELS, or you will think both are a piece of junk.

[Mike Tekin]

Stew,

Pm701- quality unit and has nice features - also buy the Japanese chisels (Star-M brand) - both Grizzly and Lee Valley carry them - very well made and require little to no touch up out of the box

[Kent A Bathurst]

Folks Stew set up the parameters between two choices, not two choices and whatever you own, want or advise. Is is that difficult to stay in those two parameters?

No kidding, Doc. Something straight out of your former profession - join a conversation and immediately refocus it to put yourself at the center. There must be a term for that out there somewhere - in my family, we call it "Our Little Sister". ;)

Stew - From the comments in your OP, I get the sense you would feel more comfortable with the PM. If that is the case, and it falls within your budget - even barely - then that is the correct choice. Tight budgets are usually a temporary problem - more $$ accrue over time - so cry once. The other thing that occurs to me is that with the SF, you might be constantly revisiting the decision, wondering what might have been. Life is too short, and there are too many mortises out there, to be caught up in that noise.

Tee it up.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Stew....regardless of which one you decide on......I can't express how important sharp bits and chisels are!

I use two sharpening tools. One from Woodcraft http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/144385/Mortise-Chisel-Sharpening-KIt.aspx . This cuts a new edge on the inside of the chisel.

Then I hone the inside edge of the chisel with this tool from Rockler http://www.rockler.com/3-piece-mortise-chisel-sharpening-set .

Then I flatten/sharpen/knock off the burr on all 4 sides of the mortiser chisel like you would the back of a bench chisel. For that I use a diamond card.

Then I sharpen the cutting edge of the bit using a jeweler's file and a diamond card hone.

With sharpened bit and chisel, I dearly enjoy using my mortiser. Sharp tools are the key!

[richard poitras]

Or you could just buy the Wood Rat on the For Sale section for cheap...

[Kent A Bathurst]

Stew....regardless of which one you decide on......I can't express how important sharp bits and chisels are!

I use two sharpening tools. One from Woodcraft http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/144385/Mortise-Chisel-Sharpening-KIt.aspx . This cuts a new edge on the inside of the chisel.

Then I hone the inside edge of the chisel with this tool from Rockler http://www.rockler.com/3-piece-mortise-chisel-sharpening-set .

Then I flatten/sharpen/knock off the burr on all 4 sides of the mortiser chisel like you would the back of a bench chisel. For that I use a diamond card.

Then I sharpen the cutting edge of the bit using a jeweler's file and a diamond card hone.

With sharpened bit and chisel, I dearly enjoy using my mortiser. Sharp tools are the key!

Ken F is dead-nuts on target. If you follow his step-by-step directions, you will be fine. If you ignore them, then even my PM 719 is junk. Same deal as getting a BMW with worn-out brakes and thread-bare tires: the true results are governed by where the rubber meets the road.

[Stew Hagerty]

Folks Stew set up the parameters between two choices, not two choices and whatever you own, want or advise. Is is that difficult to stay in those two parameters?

Rich,

THANK YOU!!!!

Nail on the head! Except for missing the Festool/loose tenon exchange I thought that I was being very specific.
I typically don't mind if a thread branches a bit here and there, as long as it weaves back to the original track (or at least close to it).
And Festool... Everybody has their own thing. And Festool is is one of those things that people are passionate about. As for the Domino, If I were looking at them seriously, I would be looking at the XL because the original model produces mortises that are too small for me.
Ok, now I do collect tools. My passion is for Woodpeckers tools. Granted they are expensive, but they made in the USA and I don't just collect them... I use them.

[Art Mann]

My comment won't help your decision but I want to add a little bit to Ken's post. I had the cone shaped sharpener he recommended and it works very well. If you have a drill press, you can chuck the cone sharpener and use it as a power sharpener that works very well and very fast. Just use your slowest speed and a light touch. I had a Steel City hollow chisel mortiser, which isn't as nice as the Powermatic you are looking at, and sharp bits made all the difference in the world.

[Stew Hagerty]

Stew....regardless of which one you decide on......I can't express how important sharp bits and chisels are!

I use two sharpening tools. One from Woodcraft http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/144385/Mortise-Chisel-Sharpening-KIt.aspx . This cuts a new edge on the inside of the chisel.

Then I hone the inside edge of the chisel with this tool from Rockler http://www.rockler.com/3-piece-mortise-chisel-sharpening-set .

Then I flatten/sharpen/knock off the burr on all 4 sides of the mortiser chisel like you would the back of a bench chisel. For that I use a diamond card.

Then I sharpen the cutting edge of the bit using a jeweler's file and a diamond card hone.

With sharpened bit and chisel, I dearly enjoy using my mortiser. Sharp tools are the key!

Ken and the others that mentioned sharp chisels. You are absolutely correct. I am actually a bit of a fanatic about sharp tools.
In fact neither one of these models comes with chisels. That is going to be the subject of my next my next thread.

[Jim Dwight]

I have a little Jet benchtop mortiser. I made nicer looking mortises with a plunge router but I don't like doing this with a router. Too much noise and sometimes smoke. I have an upcut spiral bit, a couple actually, but I still don't like doing it this way. The mortises made by my Jet are not as smooth sided but work just fine. It only has a 1/2 hp motor and I can stall it if I feed the 1/2 chisel too quickly (it's largest) but it works fine as long as I do my part. The only thing that I don't like too much is the difficulty in getting the chisel out when I make the first cut. It goes better if I raise and lower the bit as I go. But sometimes still it gets stuck. If either of the models you are considering has a good built in way of clamping the work in place, that is the one I would get.

The stones to sharpen the chisels are not terribly expensive and are a good idea to get too. It removes an excuse, at least, for not sharpening when required.

[Alan Lilly]

Between those 2... I would pay the extra and get the Powermatic. My biggest concerns would be the accuracy of the chuck and the quality of the clamping table. I have the cheaper Rikon mortiser and the XY table is awesome, but the chuck doesn't tighten the bit consistently. If you can see either machine in person... or ask an owner here ... check the quality of the chuck and table clamp. A cheap chuck will give inconsistent centering and the bit will wobble inside the chisel and cause extra heat and impede chip extraction. Also, I agree with Ken... sharp chisels are a must, but don't forget to also polish the inside of the chisel with fine sandpaper wrapped on a dowel.... especially if you have less expensive chisels. Because the inside of cheap chisels are usually poorly machined and that will also cause chips to jam up and cause trouble. I'm not recommending the Rikon, but my recent video review of the Rikon mortiser may provide insight...

The Powermatic is definitely worth the extra money IMHO.


http://youtu.be/K3ta3OTK5Wg

[Jerry Olexa]

Of those 2, Powermatic...But also include Delta and Jet for hobbyist use....

[Clay Fails]

I have the Powermatic model you listed. It works as advertised, and i have made many perfectly fine mortises using it. I've also used a plunge router with either the Mortise Pal or hand made jigs, and I also have the Festool Domino. The advantage of the mortiser is that the mortises are squared off, and you don't have to round over the tenons like you do with a router approach. All these methods work if you observe basic woodworking skills, and creep up on the tenon fits. To me that's the critical part. Sizing the tenons to fit correctly in the mortises, however they're made.

[Shawn Pixley]

When I was considering mine, I ended up with the Powermatic. Everything I have read has had it as the superior model for benchtop units. I would buy it again.

[John Gulick]

We have used a bench top PM for 10+ years and cut many many mortises. Clean, quick accurate if sharp tooling is used. Recently we have graduated to a PM #10 floor (pedal operated) and a PM chain mortiser. Currently looking at the Greenlee or Wysong automatic mortisers. We fabricate sash and doors, mostly custom with some small production runs.