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View Full Version : CREDIT CARDS, Rising Costs - Looking for ways to Handle



Bill Stearns
02-08-2015, 11:14 AM
GREETINGS ALL. I was reading an article in EJ. I see where sometime ‘round October credit card companies will be issuing in a new type of credit card. Instead of having a magnetic strip, the new cards will have a "chip" inside ‘em. Which will require us merchants to purchase a new ‘n different - ‘n more expensive - card processing machine! ($500, I read.) Increased security, cutting down on fraudulent transactions- the reasoning for the change. So, on top of my paying monthly processing fees ‘n per-transaction fees - I’ll be forced to purchase a different gizmo. (accepting credit cards being vital to my business.) They’ve got me over the barrel, right? My questions: Any practical ways you’ve found to get ‘round the rising costs of accepting credit cards? Do any of you, for example, charge a small fee to those customers who use their cards? Imagine someone will suggest that I raise my prices to absorb these expenses - save your breath, that’s a given. Just wondering what other ideas, and practices, are out there to hold this expense in check?

Bill

Ken Fitzgerald
02-08-2015, 11:39 AM
I am surprised they are still going that way. There was a bunch of articles on the lack of security on those "chip"/ RF cards and the ease of the information being stolen by an "innocent" bystander like those in a checkout line.

Matt McCoy
02-08-2015, 11:52 AM
Bill: You might look at Square or Paypal readers. Their fees are comparable or cheaper (depending on volume) and the readers are free.

Jason Hilton
02-08-2015, 12:35 PM
Chipped cards are standard in most of Europe. In the US however, it's unlikely they'll ever be universal because of the exact reason you're worried: The infrastructure cost is tremendous. New, simpler, cheaper, and more secure technology (NFC, like Apple Pay for example) is becoming more prevalent. I did UX design for a large bank for a few years in the card services group, they made a conscious decision to not invest in chipped cards, rightly assuming that much better tech was on the horizon.

I would suggest looking into Square, Paypal, or quickbooks payments for your processing. They have very straight-forward pricing which is typically a fixed percentage per swipe (no layers of fees like traditional processors) and are very easy to set up. They all have portable readers that plug into a iphone or ipad, and square even makes a register stand.

George Bokros
02-08-2015, 12:36 PM
I am surprised they are still going that way. There was a bunch of articles on the lack of security on those "chip"/ RF cards and the ease of the information being stolen by an "innocent" bystander like those a checkout line.

The new cards to my understanding are not the kind that you just wave or tap on the terminal ("RF" card), they must still be passed through a reader. The chip card and the "RF" card are different animals. I would never have and "RF" card.

I hope I am not wrong.

Ken Fitzgerald
02-08-2015, 12:39 PM
The new cards to my understanding are not the kind that you just wave or tap on the terminal ("RF" card), they must still be passed through a reader. The chip card and the "RF" card are different animals. I would never have and "RF" card.

I hope I am not wrong.

You and me both!

Craig Coney
02-08-2015, 3:35 PM
From my understanding the chip cards need to be inserted in the reader throughout the transaction.

Square will be offering an upgraded reader capable of reading the chips, but it will cost somewhere around $30 IIRC.

Jerome Stanek
02-08-2015, 3:44 PM
I have a chip card and Yes it has to be in the reader for the whole transaction. They also have the strip for places that do not have the chip readers

Bill Stearns
02-08-2015, 6:14 PM
Hey Everybody - Thanks for your replies - re: my search for less costly ways to process customers' credit cards. The article I mentioned 'bout the change-over in October is in the current Engravers Journal. (if you don't subscribe, they may have an on-line version?) I don't use a cellphone, so, the Square portable "reader" idea is out for me. And, based on my asking my card-using customers if they would've used PayPal 'stead to make their purchase - most wouldn't have. So, that doesn't work for me. JASON mentioned the idea of my using QuickBooks for card processing - now, that may work for me, as I use QuickBooks already. (I'm gonna check into their pricing, and see how it differs.) Mostly, I'm just sick 'n tired of feeling that I'm getting ripped-off by my current processing company. I can understand their EOM fee, even the transactional fees - but, it's things like their charging me over $100 yearly for them to check on my "compliance" - what a rip! - Later. Bill

Scott Shepherd
02-08-2015, 6:36 PM
Bill, I don't wish to spend your money, but there are some cheap tablets out there running Android, you might consider a cheap tablet and then you can use something like Square.

We have 2 methods, we use Square for most smaller transactions and if it's a larger transaction, we use Authorize.net and use their virtual terminal online to key it in. Doing that is a pain, but it is cheaper, so we trade off between convenience and cost based on the transactions dollar amount.

Ross Moshinsky
02-08-2015, 8:09 PM
You can get a compatible credit card machine for ~$200-250.

As for processors, there are a million out there. I recommend you really go through all the fees with the companies. They love to say "2.9% + $.30. No monthly fee" but the reality is, that's often not the truth. If you run a rewards card, the fee will go open. If you run a phone order, the fee will go up. If you charge more than $5 and less than $10,000 the fee goes up. The devil is in the detail when comparing these companies. Also more often than not, they are all about the same price.

Phil Thien
02-08-2015, 8:25 PM
Cards will still have mag strips. You will have no recourse after the change in rules, though, if there is a fraudulent charge run on a terminal with only a stripe swipe. If there was fraud involved, you will face a chargeback w/o appeal rights.

BUT HERE IS THE IMPORTANT thing to remember: Small merchants really don't stand a chance where chargebacks are concerned, anyhow. The odds are stacked against the merchant and in favor of the cardholder, the cardholder's bank, and the processor.

I'm not sure how much I'd worry about not being able to read that chip unless you're in a business that routinely hands-over commodity product to non-repeat customers.

Jeff Belany
02-08-2015, 9:01 PM
Just this last week I was quoted $700 for a CC machine that takes the new chips. I inquired asking about CC machines working over VOIP phones. The machine I have will not work with those type of phones. Don't really care to pay that much for a new machine. I also don't want to go to a smart phone to use a Square or Paypal devices. A assume with the Android tablets you still have to have phone service for the tablet, correct?

Jeff in northern Wisconsin

Scott Shepherd
02-08-2015, 9:05 PM
A assume with the Android tablets you still have to have phone service for the tablet, correct?

Jeff in northern Wisconsin

No, not at all. They are cheap and work off wifi. I don't follow it closely (android), but I see things all the time for tablets that aren't much more than $100. Someone with more knowledge than me about it, but I see ads like that all the time.

Mike Lysov
02-08-2015, 10:35 PM
It is strange you do not have cards with chips in USA yet. Here in Australia most of credit cards come with a chip. They need to be inserted into credit card machines. Magnetic strips are still on Australian cards If a card has both(and I have never seen the one without a stip) machine will tel you to use a chip, if it does not work then you can swipe. Also about 1-2 years ago cards started to come with tap and go function for purchases under $100 It is called Paywave in Australia.
http://www.creditcardfinder.com.au/images/visa-paywave-contactless-credit-card.gif

Ken Shea
02-08-2015, 11:14 PM
The machine I have will not work with those type of phones.

Jeff,
Have you actually tried your terminal via VOIP?
I use a terminal over Magic Jack, probably the worst type of VOIP and while it's not 100% reliable the 1st time through for the most part works pretty well, I do have a QucikPay virtual terminal for when it doesn't though which is $50 a year plus the normal terminal processing fees through my processor, as previously alluded to, virtual terminals are anything but convenient or fast.

Ken

Mike Lysov
02-09-2015, 1:55 AM
BTW, you can get a card processing machine from Paypal. It costs around $100-130 in Australia and it is similar in terms of fees with any bank card processing terminal.
https://www.paypal.com/au/webapps/mpp/accept-mobile-payments

Dan Hintz
02-09-2015, 6:28 AM
I inquired asking about CC machines working over VOIP phones. The machine I have will not work with those type of phones.

I see no reason why they wouldn't...

Mike Null
02-09-2015, 6:58 AM
I use a voip telephone to key in my transactions. I pay a standard small merchant fee but since i don't store cc info I don't pay the monthly fee that many of you have been slammed with.

Over 90% of my business is on open account and before I pay excessive fees or have to buy expensive equipment I will discontinue cc's altogether.

Brian Elfert
02-09-2015, 8:57 AM
Hey Everybody - Thanks for your replies - re: my search for less costly ways to process customers' credit cards. The article I mentioned 'bout the change-over in October is in the current Engravers Journal. (if you don't subscribe, they may have an on-line version?) I don't use a cellphone, so, the Square portable "reader" idea is out for me. And, based on my asking my card-using customers if they would've used PayPal 'stead to make their purchase - most wouldn't have. So, that doesn't work for me. JASON mentioned the idea of my using QuickBooks for card processing - now, that may work for me, as I use QuickBooks already. (I'm gonna check into their pricing, and see how it differs.) Mostly, I'm just sick 'n tired of feeling that I'm getting ripped-off by my current processing company. I can understand their EOM fee, even the transactional fees - but, it's things like their charging me over $100 yearly for them to check on my "compliance" - what a rip! - Later. Bill

Square can also be used with an iPad or iPad Mini as long as you have Wi-Fi. You should be able to find a used iPad for around $200. A New iPad Mini is around $300. You still have to spend some money, but it might be cheaper over the long run. If you ever process credit cards out of your store/office you can get a cellular iPad, but you pay $30 to $40 a month for data.

Your agreement with Visa/Mastercard does not allow you to charge extra for credit cards unless you charge exactly what the credit card processor charges you. You cannot just charge an arbitrary fee for taking a credit card. There are a bunch of hoops to jump through like giving a 30 day notice and posting signs with specific language.

Brian Elfert
02-09-2015, 9:01 AM
I see no reason why they wouldn't...

This depends on if it is a true VOIP phone system, or one of those single line VOIP adapters like OOMA, MagicJack, or similar. If the system still uses analog phones a credit card machine should work. On a true VOIP system with IP phones it won't work unless you have an analog gateway to handle the credit card machine.

Modern credit card machines can usually be connected to the Internet in addition to a phone line.

Brian Elfert
02-09-2015, 9:12 AM
It is strange you do not have cards with chips in USA yet. Here in Australia most of credit cards come with a chip. They need to be inserted into credit card machines. Magnetic strips are still on Australian cards If a card has both(and I have never seen the one without a stip) machine will tel you to use a chip, if it does not work then you can swipe. Also about 1-2 years ago cards started to come with tap and go function for purchases under $100 It is called Paywave in Australia.


The USA payment card industry has been very slow to adopt cards with chips due to the costs of the change. Chipped cards costs several times as much to make as striped cards. Merchants have to replace all of their payment terminals and they don't like the cost. You can see the folks here complaining about paying up to $700 for a new terminal.

Walmart is the only place so far I have had my chipped card work here in the USA. A number of merchants have the new payment terminals with readers for the chipped cards, but the capability to actually take chipped cards is not yet turned on.

Phil Thien
02-09-2015, 9:30 AM
In 2-3 years they will be rolling out pins for credit cards.

It is really the only way forward.

US consumers have been resistant to the idea. If need be, the banks will lobby congress to mandate the change.

Jeff Belany
02-09-2015, 10:13 AM
That's interesting that the IPAD's work with WI-FI. I alwasy thought they had to be hooked to cell service. At least I can use it in my shop, I have no need to use it other places. Now I will have to check to see if it is the same for my Android tablet.

Jeff in northern Wisconsin

roger wiegand
02-09-2015, 10:21 AM
I've been quite happy with the Intuit GoPayment system (especially after Square wouldn't give my business an account and wouldn't tell me why not) Fees seem very low, I pay only transaction costs, which are pretty reasonable, there have been no add-ons. Compared to buying a $700 reader upgrading your phone to a "free" iPhone seems cheap. Since my business travels it's great not to be tied to a land line of any kind.

Not sure what the security fears about chips (RFID or otherwise) are about; I'm pretty sure virtually every credit card number in the US is in the hands of some criminal organization thanks to the immense data breaches, revealed and not, that have occurred at many major retailers and others. Plus I routinely hand my card to folks of completely unknown honesty several times a day. I have had fraudulent charges, but the consumer protection rules are excellent and they've always been instantly and painlessly reversed. Why would any criminal bother stealing credit card numbers one at a time when they can order a few hundred or thousand "known good" numbers off the web with a few clicks of the mouse?

Jim Becker
02-09-2015, 10:36 AM
Chipped cards are nothing new...they have been required in the EU for a long time now. "We" in North America are behind relative to this. Yes, there is a cost for merchants to upgrade and it's understandable that for smaller merchants it's going to cause a short term pain. But there is a bigger overall cost to maintain the much less secure magnetic strip technology due to the continued escalation of fraud. (All of the cards in my wallet at this point have the chips plus the magnetic strip to maintain compatibility with readers that don't yet support the chip system)

Something else for you to consider...even the cards are likely going to be less of a factor going into the future as electronic payments and near-field connectivity become more and more prevalent. (think ApplePay, for example) When you do buy your new processing machine, if you are in a retail environment, be sure that the device also supports near-field in addition to the chips so you don't have to re-buy again in a very short time period! For many folks, that will be the preferred method of payment and if you don't have a way of accepting it, it could cause some folks to patronize your competitors that do support it.

Regarding charging a small fee to customers...I don't believe your card acceptance agreement will allow for that.

Mike Henderson
02-09-2015, 1:54 PM
I was reading an article recently about the different non-card payment systems (Apple Pay is an example). The article pointed out that none have gained traction because the different players have different goals. Google did one, Apple did one, but the big stores are trying to develop their own and have it work a bit differently. They want a system that takes the money directly out of your bank account so that they can avoid paying the transaction fee that the credit card people charge them. In retail, the profit margin is very slim. The credit card people can take 1% to 2% of the sale. If the merchants can save that cost, it will add significantly to their profit.

So until we get a system that everyone can embrace, we're probably going to stick with the credit card. And chip cards are a step up in security.

I have several chip cards and when I went to Europe last time, each transaction still required a signature. I think the card people are setting the security to a signature instead of a PIN because they get a larger fee for a signature transaction than for a PIN transaction.

Mike

Brian Elfert
02-09-2015, 1:55 PM
That's interesting that the IPAD's work with WI-FI. I alwasy thought they had to be hooked to cell service. At least I can use it in my shop, I have no need to use it other places. Now I will have to check to see if it is the same for my Android tablet.


You might be confusing iPhones with iPads. iPads and other tablets are most often WI-FI only. Not that many tablets have cellular service. Almost every tablet made in recent years has WI-FI built in.

Ken Fitzgerald
02-09-2015, 3:23 PM
Not sure what the security fears about chips (RFID or otherwise) are about; I'm pretty sure virtually every credit card number in the US is in the hands of some criminal organization thanks to the immense data breaches, revealed and not, that have occurred at many major retailers and others. Plus I routinely hand my card to folks of completely unknown honesty several times a day. I have had fraudulent charges, but the consumer protection rules are excellent and they've always been instantly and painlessly reversed. ?

You have been lucky!

Last June while we were traveling, my wife made some motel reservations via her cell phone mistakenly thinking she was talking to a reservation counter of a hotel chain.Turned out she was talking to some 3rd party. These people made reservations with the right hotel, right state, wrong city on the wrong night. It cost $160 when the credit card company chose to believe the company that made the reservations even after I showed them charges on their card in the opposite corner of the rectangular state.

Keith Outten
02-09-2015, 3:28 PM
All iPads have WiFi capability and you can purchase them with built-in cellular service as an option.

It seems to me there is a constant movement going on to make things more and more difficult for small businesses to survive.
.

Wade Lippman
02-09-2015, 3:38 PM
BUT HERE IS THE IMPORTANT thing to remember: Small merchants really don't stand a chance where chargebacks are concerned, anyhow. The odds are stacked against the merchant and in favor of the cardholder, the cardholder's bank, and the processor.

I don't know about that! I disputed a completely fraudulent charge a few years ago. The bank ruled against me simply because the merchant said I was wrong. I went into a branch bank, where the manager agreed I was clearly right. He called for me and was told they always rule for the merchant, but there was a secret appeals process. I did that and got a refund because the merchant never responded to the appeal. Yeah, I know it is hard to believe (secret appeals?!) but it happened.

Phil Thien
02-09-2015, 3:39 PM
I have several chip cards and when I went to Europe last time, each transaction still required a signature. I think the card people are setting the security to a signature instead of a PIN because they get a larger fee for a signature transaction than for a PIN transaction.

Mike

Well they certainly get less for debit+pin than they do for credit+anything.

But there was just an article about this in the WSJ where, in Europe, they're requiring a PIN even with CC transactions.

And the merchant would pay the same fee regardless, it is just an effort to stop the endless replacement of cards after security systems are compromised.

It is actually something we should all WANT, as it ultimately reduces the cost to the banks (and therefor what we, as consumers, pay).

Phil Thien
02-09-2015, 3:47 PM
I don't know about that! I disputed a completely fraudulent charge a few years ago. The bank ruled against me simply because the merchant said I was wrong. I went into a branch bank, where the manager agreed I was clearly right. He called for me and was told they always rule for the merchant, but there was a secret appeals process. I did that and got a refund because the merchant never responded to the appeal. Yeah, I know it is hard to believe (secret appeals?!) but it happened.

Maybe the merchant didn't know about the appeal (as it was secret). :)

In the olden days, everyone won. Banks ate disputes because they wanted to grow the network. Repeat-offender merchants were simply shut-down.

But starting 15-20 years ago, things really started to turn, and banks lay-off losses on merchants quite a bit more than cardholders these days.

Some of that probably has to do with credit laws, I suppose.

But the days of banks eating disputes are long gone.

Phil Thien
02-09-2015, 3:50 PM
You have been lucky!

Last June while we were traveling, my wife made some motel reservations via her cell phone mistakenly thinking she was talking to a reservation counter of a hotel chain.Turned out she was talking to some 3rd party. These people made reservations with the right hotel, right state, wrong city on the wrong night. It cost $160 when the credit card company chose to believe the company that made the reservations even after I showed them charges on their card in the opposite corner of the square state.

I'm curious, was that a Visa or MC? Or Amex or Discover?

My experiences are mostly with Visa/MC. I don't have a lot of experience w/ the other two. I have an Amex card but rarely use it, and I haven't had a Discover in years.

Phil Thien
02-09-2015, 3:53 PM
Regarding charging a small fee to customers...I don't believe your card acceptance agreement will allow for that.

It used to be that you could offer a discount for cash.

But within the last couple of years, the law has changed (I believe) and CC companies are no longer allowed to prevent you from surcharging a swipe.

I was once a merchant envoy for a bank that did processing. These days I'm relying on the news and my poor memory for what is going on. Mostly what I did was fix settling issues for large businesses, but as an agent I also got all sorts of real interesting stuff to read.

It has been many moons, though. About twenty years in fact.

Rich Riddle
02-09-2015, 4:04 PM
Any practical ways you’ve found to get ‘round the rising costs of accepting credit cards? Do any of you, for example, charge a small fee to those customers who use their cards? Imagine someone will suggest that I raise my prices to absorb these expenses - save your breath, that’s a given. Just wondering what other ideas, and practices, are out there to hold this expense in check?

Bill
If you read your card processing agreement, if you charge an increased fee for using credit cards, you violate the agreement and they take away your ability to run credit cards. To fight this, some businesses offer a "cash discount". It works out the same but it's all in the wording. Gas stations used to do this; some still do. You just have to be cautious that "cash" only means cash, nothing else.

Dan Hintz
02-09-2015, 4:33 PM
If you read your card processing agreement, if you charge an increased fee for using credit cards, you violate the agreement and they take away your ability to run credit cards.

This was most definitely the case up until a few years ago... but as Phil said above I believe it's now allowed, within certain parameters.

Rich Riddle
02-09-2015, 5:14 PM
This was most definitely the case up until a few years ago... but as Phil said above I believe it's now allowed, within certain parameters.
At the federal level it's allowed, but at the state level many states have made it illegal. Too many consumers complained. I had to look that up since I didn't even know that law changed. Thanks for the update.

Ken Fitzgerald
02-09-2015, 5:21 PM
I'm curious, was that a Visa or MC? Or Amex or Discover?

My experiences are mostly with Visa/MC. I don't have a lot of experience w/ the other two. I have an Amex card but rarely use it, and I haven't had a Discover in years.

It was with a Visa card. We have had that credit card with that bank for over 30 years. This was the first time we have ever disputed a charge.

Brian Elfert
02-09-2015, 5:50 PM
My experience seems to be that most of the time the customer wins the dispute. A company that owed me a refund on my credit card seemed to suddenly go out of business. After a month I disputed the original charge with my credit card company. I won the dispute because I had proof they owed me money and the bank couldn't contact them either.

Sometime around 2005 I bought an LCD monitor from a company for $600. They offered a 30 day money back for any reason. The monitor screen was way too glossy so I wanted to return it. It turns out the company filed bankruptcy a week or so after I got my monitor. I couldn't contact the company. Again, I contacted my credit card bank and disputed the charge. I won the dispute again. Neither the bank nor I could figure out where to send the monitor to return it so I just held onto the monitor until the company contacted me. I never heard from the company so I got a free monitor. (I had every intention of returning it if I had their address. It was shipped from a distributor like Ingram-Micro or something.)

Phil Thien
02-09-2015, 6:32 PM
At the federal level it's allowed, but at the state level many states have made it illegal. Too many consumers complained. I had to look that up since I didn't even know that law changed. Thanks for the update.

I don't think so, I think it was a federal law that knocked it out (or settled litigation I guess), it isn't state-by-state I don't think:

http://usa.visa.com/personal/get-help/checkout-fees.jsp

Jim Becker
02-09-2015, 8:46 PM
But there was just an article about this in the WSJ where, in Europe, they're requiring a PIN even with CC transactions.

The EU embraced "Chip and PIN" for CC transactions. "We" had that option, but here they apparently have opted for "Chip and signature". But when there is no PIN, the signature gets substituted, such as when traveling. I'd prefer "Chip and PIN" quite frankly, because it's a better two factor authentication..."something you have and something you know".

David Bassett
02-10-2015, 2:13 PM
The EU embraced "Chip and PIN" for CC transactions. "We" had that option, but here they apparently have opted for "Chip and signature". But when there is no PIN, the signature gets substituted, such as when traveling. I'd prefer "Chip and PIN" quite frankly, because it's a better two factor authentication..."something you have and something you know".

I have been told by both Visa (verbally, by CS rep) and AMEX (written, with chip-card), the "Chip & Signature" cards are transitional. Visa explicitly told me, if they assign a pin to a chip card you can't use it if the merchant isn't equipt to accept pins and therefore they won't assign pins for US billing addresses. Yet. (I wanted a PIN for a Europe trip.) I forget when the change over will occur, but there is a deadline where merchants will assume 100% of the fraud liability if they don't process the transaction with a chip & pin system. There is probably another point where that won't even be allowed anymore, but they didn't mention that. I don't remember the date they told me, but I'm pretty sure it was 2015 because I remember thinking it was about a year late for what I wanted.

Phil Thien
02-10-2015, 3:23 PM
I forget when the change over will occur, but there is a deadline where merchants will assume 100% of the fraud liability if they don't process the transaction with a chip & pin system.

There was recently an article in the WSJ (within last 4-6 weeks) saying that at this time, there are no plans for PIN in the USA. The article indicated that cardholders in the US don't want to use PINs.

Member banks have got to be reevaluating that decision with every announced security breach (each of them seeming to trigger an avalanche of card shuffles).

If consumers are really that anti-PIN, I'd expect the banks to lobby congress to require PINs so the member banks can blame the gov't for the change.

I was surprised, though, hearing that cardholders are anti-PIN. I don't get it. It seems remembering a 4-6 digit PIN isn't that big a deal.

Brian Elfert
02-10-2015, 4:42 PM
Is there anybody reading this thread who would be opposed to having a PIN on their credit card? We already have PINs for ATM cards.

The only thing I don't like about the chip cards is the extra five to ten seconds to process a transaction. The card also stays in the reader that entire time. Imagine the holiday lines to check out and then add five to ten seconds for every customer. Stores like Target and Walmart might have to hire an additional cashier just to compensate for longer credit card transactions. A lot of stores like credit cards because the transaction can actually be faster than cash and much faster than checks, but not so much with the new cards.

Jason Hilton
02-10-2015, 5:11 PM
A cheap android tablet or refurbished iPad will process with the free reader from square and other services over wifi. You can also key in the card number by phone in their apps. I always recommend going with the cheapest option that meets your needs. Traditional processors with card-reader hardware are never those. Regardless of if chipped cards start to become more common, the mag strip won't be going away for a long time because many small retailers will refuse to upgrade to new hardware and consumers will rarely not pay for a product simply because their retailer can't read their most secure card. Long story short, it is going to be a long time before standard mag-strip cards and readers go away, and in the mean time a lot of better technology will be produced. The less hardware the better.

David Bassett
02-10-2015, 5:27 PM
Is there anybody reading this thread who would be opposed to having a PIN on their credit card? We already have PINs for ATM cards.

The only thing I don't like about the chip cards is the extra five to ten seconds to process a transaction. The card also stays in the reader that entire time. Imagine the holiday lines to check out and then add five to ten seconds for every customer. Stores like Target and Walmart might have to hire an additional cashier just to compensate for longer credit card transactions. A lot of stores like credit cards because the transaction can actually be faster than cash and much faster than checks, but not so much with the new cards.

Compared to signing one of those stupid touch screens? I doubt things will slow down much, if any. In fact in Europe things seemed a lot faster with the chip cards. In most places they don't handle, look at, or see your card. E.g. restaurants would hand you a little box, you'd review the charges, enter your pin, and it'd print your receipt. (Unless you had a US signature card. Then they'd disappear with it the way they do here.)

Brian Elfert
02-10-2015, 8:13 PM
Compared to signing one of those stupid touch screens? I doubt things will slow down much, if any. In fact in Europe things seemed a lot faster with the chip cards. In most places they don't handle, look at, or see your card. E.g. restaurants would hand you a little box, you'd review the charges, enter your pin, and it'd print your receipt. (Unless you had a US signature card. Then they'd disappear with it the way they do here.)

Most of the time I don't buy enough at one time to require a signature. I just swipe and the charge goes through nearly instantly compared to a chipped card. Some stores you can sign for the purchase while the cashier is still ringing up items.

Bill Cunningham
02-10-2015, 8:49 PM
Canada has had chip cards for 2-3 years now. Because over 95% of my business now comes via the web, I use either PayPal, or interact e-transfer. With e-transfer I give a 2% discount. Over the counter customers pay in cash, or prepay using one of the previous choices. My over the counter stuff is usually a rubber stamp or fax service

Dan Hintz
02-11-2015, 6:38 AM
It seems remembering a 4-6 digit PIN isn't that big a deal.

As long as I get to choose the PIN... when I'm carrying around 5 different cards, remembering a different PIN for each (especially if chosen at random) could be problematic.

Phil Thien
02-11-2015, 9:37 AM
As long as I get to choose the PIN... when I'm carrying around 5 different cards, remembering a different PIN for each (especially if chosen at random) could be problematic.

So just write the PIN's on the cards.

Problem solved.

Joking aside, you could write the PIN's in some code you know how to decipher, so 1234 becomes 2143. I'd put that in your wallet, not on the cards.

I do think you hit the nail on the head with your concern.

Follow my logic here...

I guess having PIN's wouldn't be a plus if the banks couldn't change them (to random #'s) in the event of a security breach somewhere.

So the banks realize Americans would need to remember a randomly generated PIN for each card. And don't we have, on average, like 3-4 cards?

So maybe their focus group testing didn't indicate American cardholders don't want PIN's, maybe they found we're too dumb to remember 3-4 random (and possibly changing) PIN's?

Maybe they don't want to pay for all the calls to their customer service departments asking, "hey, what was my PIN again?"

Dan Hintz
02-11-2015, 10:17 AM
To access my office(s), I have several RFID cards with PINs, each different, and none set by me (unfortunately). And that's just my work life. Add to that several more for credit cards, and one can quickly see how it would spiral out of control. It's just not feasible, at least for me.