Update on the 220 Thread

[Scott Brandstetter]

I posted earlier about how hard to run a 220 breaker and since then have got a lot of great feedback as well as watched a lot of videos and read many articles. As I said in my original post, my father put the fear of God in my about 220 but never really elaborated. Thanks so much to all of the replies, what a great forum, I have started my project. As it is with many projects it has grown from my previous imagination.

I have the main breaker with 200 amps coming into it. The builder (when we built the house a year ago) ran a sub panel to my original shop for an extra 100 amp service. Since I expanded the shop and started adding my 220 tools, I found the sub didn't have the space for what I needed (builder used the sub for other house related breakers). Today I ran another 100 amp sub panel to the addition. I have never dealt with this size wire before, wow, what a difference. I am doing everything by code and plan to have an electrician check my work but what a great feeling to be able to do this work myself.

It got me thinking that as much as I like wood working, building flat pieces as well as the items I turn on my lathe.......there are so many specialties, things to learn, and I include understanding electricity as one of them. I really respect the folks that do this on a regular basis.

[Ole Anderson]

Glad to see that you got past the "fear of God" and are moving ahead with your project. Glad to see you are getting it inspected also. Doing electrical as a serious "hobby" can be rewarding. I wired my own home 40 years ago under a homeowner permit and added many circuits since then. I have helped my son rehab several homes lately and I can't believe some of the bonehead wiring homeowners do, and I have to fix. And that home inspectors miss. Just today I tested a GCFI in the master bath of a 15 year old HUD house he is going to flip and it showed an open ground. And it was routed from there to a 4-plex outlet within a foot of the tub 6 inches above the tub ledge. Why they needed that type of an outlet in the bath and so close to the tub is anyone's guess. Ripped out the 4-plex outlet and fixed the ground.

[Julie Moriarty]

A lot of homeowners think if it works it's done right. Then later they start having problems. Electricians see wiring a house a pretty simple job, and it is, if you know what you're doing. But the things homeowners do makes our heads spin. Or provides us some interesting conversations during breaks and lunch.

[Ole Anderson]

I was talking to a contractor (roofing) at the flip house today. He said not all of the bad wiring should be attributed to homeowners, lots of it is a result of home improvement "contractors" taking on all levels of improvement. The ones that do a kitchen remodel and while they are at it they redo some plumbing and electrical. Not necessarily fly by night guys, but one man operations thinking they are an expert is all aspects of remodeling. As I write this, I can't help but think of some of the episodes of Mike Holmes.

[roger wiegand]

Heck I've had work done by licensed "master" electricians and passed by the building inspector that was in violent disregard of code and good sense. (Think inaccessible splices, unsealed can lights open into unconditioned attic space, three wires of different sizes mashed into one breaker). It completely galls me that I have to put up with that and MA won't allow me to legally pull a permit and do the work myself.

[Julie Moriarty]

I was talking to a contractor (roofing) at the flip house today. He said not all of the bad wiring should be attributed to homeowners, lots of it is a result of home improvement "contractors" taking on all levels of improvement. The ones that do a kitchen remodel and while they are at it they redo some plumbing and electrical. Not necessarily fly by night guys, but one man operations thinking they are an expert is all aspects of remodeling.
You're right, Ole, it's not just the HOs. There are a lot of self-proclaimed professionals who don't know half what they think they know.


As I write this, I can't help but think of some of the episodes of Mike Holmes.
I was watching a Holmes episode years back when he hired some tapers to do a house. They brought in a bazooka, flat box and corner rollers - standard taping tools on anything but small jobs. Holmes looked confused and said he had never seen those tools before. The only taping tool he knew was a taping knife. :confused: He lost me after that.

Nobody knows everything. The best in their field know when it's time to call in another trade and not try to do something outside of their field of expertise. I've worked with plumbers, pipe fitters, tin knockers, masons, roofers, carpenters, cabinetmakers, sprinkler fitters, riggers, equipment operators, glaziers, iron workers, laborers, et al. The one trade the other trades are most reluctant to attempt themselves is electrical. The reason is they have seen what can go wrong. Residential stuff is fairly easy but not if you don't know what you're doing. And an awful lot of people who think they know, don't.

[Chris Padilla]

Tin knockers? HVAC guys?

[Daniel O'Neill]

Tin knockers? HVAC guys?
Yeah typically or at least the duct work guys.

[Jim Stearns]

Tin knockers? HVAC guys?

Official name is Sheet Metal Workers, but tin knockers is what everybody else in the trades calls them. They're used to it. LOL

I'm a retired pipefitter, and have been working with the other trades for over 40 years. Sometimes we're called pipe fighters, usually by ourselves.

[Julie Moriarty]

There's not many trades that have been given nicknames. "Tinners" or "tin knockers" for the sheet metal workers, "rockers" for the guys who hang drywall, "sparky" or "sparks" for electricians. That's about all I can think of. I have heard some pipefitters refer to their trade as "pipe fighters" but none of the other trades call them that. Considering what they have to wrestle, I understand the fighting part. This is from one of the last jobs I worked on before retiring:

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab233/jules42651/dfch1mechrm_01_zpskwhuhcfv.jpg
The fitters had just started when I took the picture. Lots of "fighting" left to do. Jim, I'm sure this is a familiar scene for you.

Sparky work:
http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab233/jules42651/500MCM_01_zps1aaypa9s.jpg
The cable on the reels is 500MCM and will be used for carrying 480 volts for a 3 phase setup. The brown, orange and yellow represent A phase, B phase and C phase, respectively. The reel on the far right is colored grey. We used grey for 480v neutrals.

[Ole Anderson]

Julie, there are so few ladies in the trades (my son is an ironworker, not too many ladies there) let alone ones that have stuck it out to retirement, I am so impressed with you and your comments, I smile anytime I see you chime in on a sparky question.

[Bill Adamsen]

On occasion I'll get a confounding electrical question typically related to 3-phase or VFDs, and I put that question out on Practical Machinist and SMC. I'm so fortunate that in both forums the folks just really know their electrical and are willing to share. Sometimes I've felt a bit chastened, but in the long run am grateful experienced woodworkers and machinists were able to articulate questions and pointers that help both myself and my electrician think about the solutions. Were would we be without this channel of assistance?

[Jim Stearns]

Yes it is, Julie. I worked all over the place during my time. Nuke plants, both during construction and refuel outages. Oil refineries, chemical plants, hospitals, schools, the whole gamut. Great pictures you have there.

[jack duren]

I posted earlier about how hard to run a 220 breaker and since then have got a lot of great feedback as well as watched a lot of videos and read many articles. As I said in my original post, my father put the fear of God in my about 220 but never really elaborated. Thanks so much to all of the replies, what a great forum, I have started my project. As it is with many projects it has grown from my previous imagination.

I have the main breaker with 200 amps coming into it. The builder (when we built the house a year ago) ran a sub panel to my original shop for an extra 100 amp service. Since I expanded the shop and started adding my 220 tools, I found the sub didn't have the space for what I needed (builder used the sub for other house related breakers). Today I ran another 100 amp sub panel to the addition. I have never dealt with this size wire before, wow, what a difference. I am doing everything by code and plan to have an electrician check my work but what a great feeling to be able to do this work myself.

It got me thinking that as much as I like wood working, building flat pieces as well as the items I turn on my lathe.......there are so many specialties, things to learn, and I include understanding electricity as one of them. I really respect the folks that do this on a regular basis.

"Today I ran another 100 amp sub panel to the addition."

Replaced or added?

[Scott Brandstetter]

I added another 100 panel. It came off the main panel that has 200 or 250 coming into it. I should add that both of the sub panels I have now are for the wood shop. I am a one man show so my electrician assured me my main was more than adequate since I won't have all machines running at once.



"Today I ran another 100 amp sub panel to the addition."

Replaced or added?