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View Full Version : And So It Begins - Build Thread - Strat



Dennis Peacock
02-07-2015, 7:40 PM
Excited. Wood arrived, guitar hardware arrived. Chuck and I got together today to look over the hardware components, wood, and the plans. We went to Staples later in the day and had the plans printed. Template wood is in the shop, plans printed and reviewed. We both may be building the same guitars, but we are both excited to do something that we've talked about for YEARS.!!!

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Ken Fitzgerald
02-07-2015, 8:40 PM
Go Dennis!

Shawn Pixley
02-07-2015, 10:50 PM
Good on you two! Pace yourself. There is a tendancy to want to rush through the build. (At least for me)

David Falkner
02-07-2015, 11:32 PM
You just can't beat a good ol' guitar build thread! I'm working on my first two (acoustic) now but not doing a build thread. Can't wait to see what you come up with on this guitar.

Dennis Peacock
02-08-2015, 9:10 AM
Well, I hope y'all don't get your hopes set too high on us. We bought pickups and such that had really good reviews without us spending a whole lot of money on them. I guess what I'm really trying to say is: this is our 1st guitar build and we spent money on what we felt was good for our first build. We bought stuff from Guitar Fetish and we ordered wood from Woodworkers Supply. We found a wood supplier that is fairly local to us that we can get wood from at a lower cost for the next build. :)

We also cheated just a bit on the fingerboard....we ordered them already slotted and radius-ed. I guess you could say that we entered into this with caution and didn't want to take on too much of a challenge the first time around. Can you sense our nervous decisions? ;)

roger wiegand
02-09-2015, 3:15 PM
I think pre-slotted fingerboards are sensible even for pros. Unless you are using something exotic for your fingerboard it's a lot of precision work for an outcome that is easily not as good. Have a wonderful time with your build! If you're like me there will be moments when it stops being fun (when some step goes badly), best to then put it aside for a day or so and return refreshed and ready to do it over so that it comes out as perfectly as you can do it. It's only wood, and if you need to create a little firewood on the way to having it come out exactly as you would like, it's worth it.

Beware the distortions introduced by copy machines if you're making full size templates-- double check that the templates and measurements match up! (you can guess how I know this is a pitfall).

John Coloccia
02-09-2015, 8:06 PM
Best advice I can think to give at the moment is to think through each and every step with the neck. Follow some reasonable sequences that you find somewhere (maybe even right here on the Creek), but do really think about each step...I mean REALLY think about the details. Going to run a router down something? Where's the fence going to go? Will some other bit of the neck interfere? Should you do it earlier in the process when you have a straight line somewhere, or did you blow away that convenient edge because you started shaping too soon? Think about how you might route the truss rod slot for a prime example of people making an awful lot of problems for themselves by getting too anxious! :)

The biggest pitfall with the neck is doing something out of sequence and blowing away some line, edge or reference that you would find extremely convenient later on. For an example of this, look at Julie's fingerboard inlay thread. Not to pick on Julie but I'm sure she'd agree that things would have been simpler if she had done the inlay when the fingerboard was flat. No major big deal...just build a little jig and move one, but that's the kind of thing you want to avoid if you think of it.

So just think it through in detail a couple of times. Building the neck is just a bunch of simple procedures if you do them in the right order, and a royal PITA if you don't. Establish your centerlines early, and make sure you never blow it away. Going to sand the top of the neck? Is your centerline there? Better transfer it to the sides before you start! Going to trim some off the end of the neck? Better make sure that centerline is transferred to the top before you trim.

Same goes for the body. Luthiers then to work off of centerlines because you will be extremely hard pressed to find even one part that's straight and parallel to anything. Everything is curved and tapered. :)

Dennis Peacock
02-09-2015, 9:32 PM
Hummmm.....I've been thinking about all this in great detail. I will be looking at the plans we had printed up in great detail sometime this week. I have to develop a plan of "order" for us to follow. I know it will start with the body but the neck has me the most tensed up. :D

I know it's just wood....but there's money tied to that expensive firewood pile in the corner....and money is what I have the least amount of. :D

Bruce Volden
02-12-2015, 5:52 PM
Uhhmmm, you posted on Feb. 7. Why haven't I heard a sound clip yet? I 'spose you're one of them procrastinators? Anyway I will be watching this thread!!! I just purchased a Rainsong 3 weeks ago. I heat with wood and no amount of humidity could keep my other geetars in tune or straight! Got tired of not playing. I can park this thing in the snowbanks and it still stays true.

Bruce

Shawn Pixley
02-16-2015, 12:26 PM
I'd second John's advice. I learned the hard way when making some projects that have curve to curved piece joinery. The order in which you do things is vital to both the effort required and the outcome. I took notes on what worked or didn't for the next time. I think for a simple table (4 legs, 4 stretchers, and a top) I had 44 steps. Every piece was curved (most with compound curves) and tapered and there were no 90 degree angles at the end. You will need to think, how will I hold it for this operation? Will I have adequate bearing / reference surface for the operation? How do I inlay work after the curves are cut? I made my life unnecessarily difficult by inlaying after the legs and stretchers were glued up.

Chris Hachet
02-16-2015, 12:54 PM
Good on you two! Pace yourself. There is a tendancy to want to rush through the build. (At least for me)

I do not play but both of my sons (16 and 21) do. I want to build a guitar someday. Actually, I would like to build both an accoustic and an electric guitar.

Art Mann
02-16-2015, 1:29 PM
I'm not interested in musical instruments at the moment but I think it is exciting to make some new product or use a new build technique just for the pleasure of mastering a new skill. Take time and enjoy every moment.

Dennis Peacock
02-17-2015, 1:55 PM
Good news, this past Saturday, Chuck and I got together in my shop to look things over and start the process. We got our templates cut out but now fully sanded yet and we still have a back template to make and route out the pickup holes and such in the body template. We also tinkered with a jig that Chuck made for cutting the back of the neck to get the shape we want for the neck of the strats. The jig worked well once we both figured out how to set it up and use it. We now have to adjust the "pucks" on both ends to give us the neck profiles that we truly are shooting for. Maybe we can start cutting real wood in the next couple of weeks. Chuck lives about an hour from me so we try and plan carefully so we can make the best of our shop time and progress on the guitar making process. :)

Julie Moriarty
02-17-2015, 6:55 PM
For an example of this, look at Julie's fingerboard inlay thread. Not to pick on Julie but I'm sure she'd agree that things would have been simpler if she had done the inlay when the fingerboard was flat.

Actually, I never considered doing the inlays before radiusing the fretboard because I use the router jig I built for creating the radius. I'd be afraid the shell would chip out when the router bit contacted it. The solution with the bass inlays was pretty simple, make up a couple of rails and a wider plate for the Dremel base. It works pretty well. I tried sanding the radius down and it was a real pain. I'll work around any issues as long as I can use the router jig to radius fretboards.

My problem with the inlays on the bass is with the fine points in the inlays, much smaller than any bit Stew Mac sells. The other problem is keeping the area clean of dust so I can see the lines when wearing a respirator. Without the respirator, I could just blow it away while I work, but if I don't wear the respirator, I pay for it.

On all the necks I've made so far, I installed the inlays after I did the radius, but they were just dots. No problems there.

george wilson
02-18-2015, 2:28 PM
Pearl dust is poison. But,I doubt you'd breathe enough to be harmful. If it was real potent,I'd already be dead!!

Steve Holmquest
02-25-2015, 8:46 PM
I too am working through a guitar build, with my son. He asked if I could build him one and I told him no, but I will build one with him. So far, a great experience. I will tag along as we progress through. From you description, we are in a similar position.

Dennis Peacock
02-27-2015, 5:53 PM
We glued up the neck blanks and they are now out of the clamps. The body pieces will be glued up this weekend. I'll try and do better about posting but we are only working on these on Saturdays and as we get time during the week. It's just really slow getting started for the first time. I would call it the first timers jitters. :D

Julie Moriarty
02-27-2015, 9:41 PM
If there are no pics, it didn't happen! ;)

Dennis Peacock
02-28-2015, 4:01 PM
Neck blanks glued up.....pic.

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Dennis Peacock
03-09-2015, 7:59 PM
Guitar bodies glued up and dried glue cleaned up. Here are the neck blanks out of the clamps and ready for routing the truss rod.

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Julie Moriarty
03-12-2015, 11:14 AM
I see you're using the dual rod truss rods with the spoke wheels. I started with those and don't have any experience with other types but I've found no reason to look for anything else. One neck I made developed a slight up bow. The dual rods came in very handy there.

Looking forward to seeing more. :)

Dennis Peacock
04-05-2015, 10:31 PM
Well, Chuck and I are making pretty good progress with what limited time we've spent on these guitars so far. Nothing is fastened down and we just placed the electronics and pick guard on the body to verify fit and I held a neck in place to check fit in the pocket and to get an overall look of how it is so far. We are really enjoying this process.!!

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Bruce Page
04-05-2015, 11:45 PM
Looking good Dennis!

Julie Moriarty
04-06-2015, 7:09 AM
Nice work! What kind of wood are you using for the fretboard? It looks like rosewood.

You might want to consider flipping over the truss rod so the wheel is closer to the top. You have to notch out the underside of the fretboard to accommodate the raised wheel, but that little bit of exposure makes a difference when adjusting the wheel. Otherwise, it might be hard turning the wheel enough to get to the next spoke hole.

Dennis Peacock
04-06-2015, 11:19 AM
Julie,
The fingerboards are Rosewood. I'm trying to remember how we have the truss rods in the necks.....I "think" we have them installed with the wheel on top. Shoot, now I'll have to check it out and see. ;)

John Coloccia
04-06-2015, 11:34 AM
If you install with the wheel on top, the rod will work backwards (i.e. turning the wheel clockwise will add relief instead of removing it). Not a disaster, but it will be different than every other guitar on the planet. :)

Dennis Peacock
04-06-2015, 3:59 PM
If you install with the wheel on top, the rod will work backwards (i.e. turning the wheel clockwise will add relief instead of removing it). Not a disaster, but it will be different than every other guitar on the planet. :)

Good point John, but I already watched 2 other luthier's install them opposite of the instructed method. These first 2 guitars will not be for sale. The next 2 will be. :)

Julie Moriarty
04-06-2015, 10:51 PM
If you install with the wheel on top, the rod will work backwards (i.e. turning the wheel clockwise will add relief instead of removing it). Not a disaster, but it will be different than every other guitar on the planet. :)

So who says conformity is a good thing? ;)

If you bury that spoke wheel, you will have a heck of a time making the thing work. I've gone contrarian :rolleyes: with all my necks and I can't imagine how the spoke wheel-dual truss rod thingy can work for us mere mortals when it's in the "correct" position. I like A. B. Normal. :) Do what works.

Mike Sherman
04-07-2015, 8:32 AM
I've never liked the look of the spoke-wheel truss rods. Most people install them with the wheel exposed and notch the fret board end - looks strange to me!
I use the Allen head hot-rods with the active rod on the bottom. The majority of my guitars and basses have the truss rod adjustment at the head stock end with a truss rod cover unless the customer specifies otherwise.

John Coloccia
04-07-2015, 12:24 PM
I've never liked the look of the spoke-wheel truss rods. Most people install them with the wheel exposed and notch the fret board end - looks strange to me!
I use the Allen head hot-rods with the active rod on the bottom. The majority of my guitars and basses have the truss rod adjustment at the head stock end with a truss rod cover unless the customer specifies otherwise.

Frank and Deva's friend? Anyhow, I'm with you. I used them a few times and then stopped.

Mike Sherman
04-07-2015, 1:46 PM
Frank and Deva's friend?

The one and only! Nice to see you on here!

John Coloccia
04-07-2015, 2:43 PM
Ditto. Everyone should check out Mike's work. Really beautiful.

Catch you around, Mike...it's not easy getting out and about anymore with the twins, but we're bringing them as soon as they start playing outside at Hartford Rd.

Mike Sherman
04-07-2015, 7:33 PM
Thanks for the kind words, John! I'm looking forward to seeing what Dennis has in store for these builds.

Dennis Peacock
04-08-2015, 8:44 AM
Mike,
I'm truly a "nobody" when it comes to instrument building. This is just something that's been on my "bucket list" for a long time and I enjoy playing music when an instrument is setup well and has a good sound to it. This may never go anywhere but I'm at least enjoying this and being in my shop for the 1st time in a few years due to family medical and family troubles. I think my bout with depression is about over and this is helping me come out of the hole I've been fighting within for the last several months. I truly love working with wood.

I'm always open for advice, tips, and pointers. :)

John Coloccia
04-08-2015, 9:06 AM
As I told Julie, there are two kinds of people, Dennis. People who never finish their first guitar, and people who just keep building guitars. I know very few people that actually have built a guitar from scratch, and then just stopped building. It seems like getting over the hump the first time is the key. On the other hand, I know a LOT of people that have started a guitar, and have NEVER finished...it just sits, in the corner...forever. And they'll never build again.

Here's a profile on Mike, BTW.

http://www.premierguitar.com/articles/Builder_Profile_Sherman_Guitars

He's a hell of a bassist too and is regularly gigging in the area. I'm really fortunate that I get to run into him from time to time and pick his brain. :)

Mike Sherman
04-08-2015, 10:25 AM
Dennis, I'm glad to hear things are looking up for you. Life throws curve-balls at you sometimes. Getting back in the shop and creating things is always a good way to put the rough patches behind you! I enjoy watching build threads, and watching the artist evolve. As John mentioned, after you build one, it gets under the skin! I'm new to this site, but I have been poking around on the forums and there are some amazingly talented artisans on here.

John, you are much too kind! I hope to see more guitars coming out of your shop soon!

Dennis Peacock
04-08-2015, 2:19 PM
Mike,
I'm not a true guitar player....I'm a bass player. :D
I've been playing at the bass guitar since I was 13 years old. I've never had any lessons and only in the last few years have I learned how to read a true music chart with chords and timing marks for each measure of the music. I've played all these years "by ear" and I learned in Jan of this year what the Circle of 5ths is and what it refers to. I'm still learning music theory and I'm still developing my bass chops. I'm very impressed with your music portfolio. I am nowhere near as accomplished as you. I have played with some highly trained musicians to include various parts of the Arkansas Symphony, as well as many classically trained musicians that were always playing way over my head. ;)
I'm a big bass fan and I love jazz, country, gospel, soft rock, bluegrass, and blues with jazz, blues, and bluegrass being passions of mine. It's just that jazz hurts my head because it requires a whole new mindset over the rest of the music that I enjoy playing.

My goal is to build 2 guitars (one for my youngest son (18) and one for me) and then....I want to build my own custom 5-string bass for it to become my bass of choice in all the sessions I play. I'd love to have your advice on bass building as this will be the instrument that I will live behind (spend the most time on) for the rest of my days on this old blue rock. I go play some rhythm guitar on an acoustic guitar but I want to be better at the bass as well as better at the guitar as well. ;)

Mike Sherman
04-08-2015, 8:54 PM
Dennis, I'm a self-taught player as well. I started out on Coronet in grade school and switched to stringed instruments around the same age as you picked up the bass. It all changed when friend put a `69 fender jazz bass in my hands! All those horn lines and scales seemed to transfer over to bass for me. I certainly don't consider myself "accomplished'....I'm just a student of the instrument. We're never too old to learn, right? I grew up in Chicago, so I was surrounded by great music and a great scene, and I was fortunate to play with and learn from great players. The best way to learn is by playing with musicians that are more advanced than you.

Jazz can seem overwhelming at first. Try to think of it as improvising over looping patterns. A lot of Jazz tends to be in minor keys, so practice those minor scales!

I'm always willing to help if you need any advise on instrument building.:)

Dennis Peacock
04-15-2015, 12:28 PM
Another update.....more work done on the necks.....

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g69/sawdustar/Guitar%20Build/1767_zps6ipzcxt0.jpg (http://s53.photobucket.com/user/sawdustar/media/Guitar%20Build/1767_zps6ipzcxt0.jpg.html)

And

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g69/sawdustar/Guitar%20Build/1766_zpspazrhoou.jpg (http://s53.photobucket.com/user/sawdustar/media/Guitar%20Build/1766_zpspazrhoou.jpg.html)

Julie Moriarty
04-16-2015, 10:26 AM
I didn't realize you had laminated two woods on the neck. What is the backing wood? When you get the back shaped, please post pics.

Dennis Peacock
04-16-2015, 11:41 AM
Julie,
One neck is backed with Black Walnut and the other neck is backed with Black Cherry.

Julie Moriarty
04-16-2015, 11:59 AM
That sounds like it's going to be very cool!

I did a neck laminate with the woods stacked 90 degrees to yours but never thought about it the other way. I'm guessing the dimension of the backer wood is half the thickness of the headstock?

Dennis Peacock
04-17-2015, 8:37 AM
Yes, about 1/2 the thickness. Just glued it up and planed it down to what was needed and went from there. Really excited on how this is turning out.

Dennis Peacock
04-26-2015, 4:59 PM
Chuck and I spent several hours in the shop yesterday working on the guitars. We are really enjoying the process and each others company in the shop. Here are some pics for proof. :D

Both Guitar Bodies...side by side:
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Chuck's Guitar Neck:
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My Guitar Neck:
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The back of my guitar neck (Arkansas Black Cherry):
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The backup of Chuck's guitar neck (Black Walnut):
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Me carving on a neck with a spoke shave:
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Chuck refining the shape on a guitar body:
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Mike Sherman
04-26-2015, 9:12 PM
Looking good, Dennis!

Shawn Pixley
04-26-2015, 9:28 PM
Looking good. it also appears that you are enjoying the process!

Dennis Peacock
04-26-2015, 10:12 PM
Looking good. it also appears that you are enjoying the process!

Shawn,
Way too much fun in this process. I will be doing another guitar after this one.....probably a Telecaster. :)

Julie Moriarty
04-27-2015, 9:17 AM
Looks great! I really like the way the two woods contrasted in the necks and how it looks after profiling them. Did you guys profile the neck backs, start to finish, with them clamped like in the #6 photo? Was it all files and spokeshaves or did you use something else?

Dennis Peacock
04-27-2015, 2:38 PM
Julie,
Chuck used rasps, files, and sandpaper on his neck and I used a spokeshave, files, and sandpaper on mine. Yes, my neck was shaped being held exactly as you saw in the pic above. I really laid down hard on that neck to check strength....and it is strong. :)

Julie Moriarty
04-27-2015, 2:40 PM
Dennis, the reason I asked about the clamp is I've been reluctant to expose the fretboard to possible damage. I saw you had a cushion under it but I haven't been that brave.

Dennis Peacock
05-08-2015, 4:13 PM
OK...so on finish coloring.....can I use a UTC tint for my lacquer finish or do I have to use a Transtint type colorant?

Mike Sherman
05-09-2015, 11:43 AM
OK...so on finish coloring.....can I use a UTC tint for my lacquer finish or do I have to use a Transtint type colorant?

I've never used UTC, but reading the product sheet, it says it can be mixed in lacquer. What color do you guys have planned?

Dennis Peacock
05-10-2015, 9:53 AM
I've never used UTC, but reading the product sheet, it says it can be mixed in lacquer. What color do you guys have planned?

Mike,
I am looking at going with a transparent Amber Yellow on the inner-most part of the body, then transparent red, then a type of vintage brown on the outter-most...almost like a sunburst pattern if you will. Chuck is looking to go with a vintage blue like what came on the '62 strats. But...I am open for finish suggestions. :D

Dennis Peacock
05-10-2015, 10:18 AM
Build Update.....
Here's the progress we made yesterday.

Here is Chuck working on fret refinement on one of the necks.
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Here is my guitar neck with the dots newly installed and lightly sanded.
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Here is Chuck's guitar, fretted, and neck aligned and mounted. We focused on his guitar because it's just easier with 2 people working on some things ya know. :)
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Here is Chuck holding his "now together" guitar that we are both so proud to display. Our first EVER.
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This has been a dream of mine for many years and it was a couple of years back that Chuck and I talked about this very thing while at work one day on the day job. That's when I found out that it was a dream of his as well to build a guitar......so now that part of the story is "history" and we are bettering close to marking one item off of our bucket list.
The thing is....we don't want to stop building guitars & basses. :D :D ;)

Julie Moriarty
05-11-2015, 9:36 AM
Looking great, guys! The attention to detail is obvious.


The thing is....we don't want to stop building guitars & basses.

Those of us afflicted with the disease understand fully. ;)

John Coloccia
05-11-2015, 4:35 PM
Yeah, I always say that there are two kinds of guitar builders - those that never finish the first build, and those that never stop building. Once you're dedicated (crazy/stupid/whatever) enough to actually get through all of the steps on the first one, it's like juggling 3 balls for the first time...suddenly, everything looks like ball. And on that note, I'll just mention that full bottles of Port are a LOT harder to juggle than, say, balls, and THAT is not just theoretical musing, let me tell you. I'll also add that my wife has an extraordinary memory.

Dennis Peacock
05-13-2015, 5:49 PM
Update:
Well we reached the point to mounting the necks on the bodies. Found out that the neck saddle on the body needs to be about 1/16" deeper than what we calculated to allow us room to adjust the action up and down. Nothing like doing a bunch of math trying to get it all "right" when you find that you're off by just a "tad". :)

John Coloccia
05-13-2015, 8:10 PM
You'd be surprised how many Strats have a shim under the front of the neck. More common than not, IMHO. If you're going to miss, that's the direction you want to miss!

Dennis Peacock
05-15-2015, 12:51 PM
Update:
Well, Chuck came by after work for us to work on the guitars for a bit. We routed the neck pocket on Chuck's guitar to lower the neck in the pocket by about 1/16" and then remounted the neck. Put the bridge on, strung up a few strings and checked a few measurements and we were close to "spec" right off the bat. Decided to take his guitar in the house, fully string it up, tune it up, and see how things went from there.
Put on all new strings, tuned it up, strummed on it a bit....re-tuned due to string stretch....checked the neck and it needed just a touch of help from the currently slack truss rod. Applied just a very slight bit of truss rod and the neck was perfect. Tuned it up again and started playing some music. Love the action and even the sound of it...even though no electronics were installed yet.

Excited..??? We are !!!! :D :D

BTW, can anyone tell me where I can get some radius cutters for my molding machine? I'm thinking about buying radius cutters to form my finger boards with instead of doing it all by hand. Thoughts?

Chuck Raudonis
05-20-2015, 3:17 PM
Just a warning, that excitement thing you just referenced? THAT is what is going to have each of you making the second one....and the seventh.....

��

Dennis Peacock
05-25-2015, 2:05 PM
Update:
We decided to use what dyes and finishes we had on-hand or locally available. Just trying to keep our cost down is all.
Chuck's guitar body is Transtint Dark Vintage Maple and his walnut laminated neck is simply clear coat. Clear finish coat is polyurethane. The finishing on his guitar has started. My neck is clear gloss poly as well but laminated with the Arkansas Black Cherry. Today I applied the color to my guitar body (no pic of it yet) and I used a Transfast Brown Mahogany dye on it. I had several different dyes on-hand and just chose something that I thought we'd both be happy with. And so....the finishing part begins. :D

My guitar neck.
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Chuck's guitar neck.
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Chuck's guitar body.
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So....that's where we stand at this time.

OH.....and BTW.....I've already ordered the hardware and electronics for the coming Telecaster build. :D :D :D :D

Dennis Peacock
06-24-2015, 7:42 PM
Well...call me a big dummy for even trying it.....but I tried polyurethane on the guitar bodies. When it came to wet sanding.....I found what I had always read about....ghost lines due to breaking through a single layer of finish to the next layer of finish. Sooooooooo.....I sanded it all off of my guitar body and I will recolor and then clear coat with gloss lacquer.

This is Dennis....kicking himself...over and over and over and over........ :mad: :(

John Coloccia
06-24-2015, 9:07 PM
I don't recall specifically telling you so, but I'm sure someone else told you so...LOL. I've made worse messes than that. :)

george wilson
06-24-2015, 10:14 PM
The layers showing up is called gassing. Each layer has a coating of microscopic bubbles that show up when you sand through them.

This is what is bad about polyurethane varnishes. You cannot rub them.

roger wiegand
06-25-2015, 9:13 AM
This is what is bad about polyurethane varnishes. You cannot rub them.

Darn, hate it when I find out that stuff I've been doing for 30 years doesn't work. Maybe I'm not rubbing hard enough.

Dennis Peacock
06-25-2015, 11:46 AM
Darn, hate it when I find out that stuff I've been doing for 30 years doesn't work. Maybe I'm not rubbing hard enough.

So how does one fix the ghost lines/layers that are there when previous layers are sanded through? Inquiring minds want to know. :)

John Coloccia
06-25-2015, 12:22 PM
You can't sand through. That's why catalyzed finishes are used in production, and are applied THICK.

george wilson
06-25-2015, 12:50 PM
I didn't mean you literally can't rub poly finishes. But,if you rub through the layers,you get those "topographic" lines caused by gassing.

Personally,I don't care for the looks of poly finishes. They just do not have the warmth and depth of nitrocellulose lacquer finishes.

Only 30 years? You are a babe in the woods,Roger.

roger wiegand
06-26-2015, 8:10 AM
Not so much a babe, it took me 15 years before I tried it for the first time. :o Still plenty to learn though, especially when it comes to instruments.

Yes, if I sand through I apply another coat and try again. The instruments I've built have actually all been done with nitrocellulose lacquer. I started doing rubbed out polyurethane on pieces where I needed much better protection (e.g. tabletops) but didn't want the plastic look of polyurethane off the brush. I use 0000 steel wool for relatively matte finishes (followed by wax), pumice, rottenstone and automotive buffing compounds for more sheen. Working by hand and relatively gently I haven't experienced polishing through layers. With sandpaper yes.

Dennis Peacock
06-27-2015, 8:26 AM
Not so much a babe, it took me 15 years before I tried it for the first time. :o Still plenty to learn though, especially when it comes to instruments.

Yes, if I sand through I apply another coat and try again. The instruments I've built have actually all been done with nitrocellulose lacquer. I started doing rubbed out polyurethane on pieces where I needed much better protection (e.g. tabletops) but didn't want the plastic look of polyurethane off the brush. I use 0000 steel wool for relatively matte finishes (followed by wax), pumice, rottenstone and automotive buffing compounds for more sheen. Working by hand and relatively gently I haven't experienced polishing through layers. With sandpaper yes.

So.....If I can through....I can just apply another coat on top of that and buff that layer when dry?

John Coloccia
06-27-2015, 11:57 AM
If you can lay that top coat on flat so it requires minimal to no leveling. It's not well suited to high gloss guitar finishing. Usually, when you stray from nitro lacquer or shellac you move towards a catalyzed finish that can be applied thicker to alleviate sanding through during leveling. Some idiot, a long time ago, decided that guitars should have incredible finishes that rival the best of the best custom car finish. Look at the factory finish on your automobile really closely some day. You'll see waves...you'll see orange peel. As nice as it is, it would be rejected out of hand on a guitar, even a cheap one. I have a bottom of the barrel home shopping network Estebahn acoustic here (don't ask why) that has a finish any hot rod builder would kill for.

That makes lots of finishes poorly suited for guitar work, not because they're bad finishes, but because it's difficult to achieve that sort of perfection if you're going for a gloss look.

george wilson
06-27-2015, 6:56 PM
Do you guys know that the original Volkswagen Beetle had a rubbed finish?