Advice for Applying Veneer to Cabinet Face Frame

[Dan Mages]

The one major part of the kitchen refacing that I need to learn more about is applying veneer to the face frame. The manufacturer I will probably be using offers matching 2'x8' sheets of finished veneer that I would need to cut to size. http://www.cabinetdoorsdepot.com/product.php?id=11

Here are my concerns and questions.

1. What is the most efficient and accurate way to cut the veneer into strips? I was thinking about purchasing a Virutex laminate cutter. They seem to have good resale value if I wish to sell it after I am done.
2. What is the best glue to use when applying the veneer?
3. What is the best practice to get a good joint between the rails and stiles?
4. Any suggestions for getting a good finish on this project?

Dan

[John TenEyck]

I did a remodel where I used PSA veneer like in your link. As long as you clean and either sand or use liquid sandpaper on the face frames you don't need to use any additional adhesive, although some folks do. I used liquid deglosser and the veneer is still well bonded 5 years later. I started with 2 x 8 sheets of veneer (Rockler) and cut them down with my table saw with a cross cut blade and ZCI. It worked great. You cut them over size and trim after gluing them on anyway so the edge doesn't have to be perfect. Rockler sells a little metal jig that helps in cutting nice clean stile/rail joints. That's what I used and it worked well. I finished the veneer the same way I did the rest of the kitchen, except I brushed on the finish instead of spraying it. It looked as good as the rest.

John

[Sam Murdoch]

I did a remodel where I used PSA veneer like in your link. As long as you clean and either sand or use liquid sandpaper on the face frames you don't need to use any additional adhesive, although some folks do. I used liquid deglosser and the veneer is still well bonded 5 years later. I started with 2 x 8 sheets of veneer (Rockler) and cut them down with my table saw with a cross cut blade and ZCI. It worked great. You cut them over size and trim after gluing them on anyway so the edge doesn't have to be perfect. Rockler sells a little metal jig that helps in cutting nice clean stile/rail joints. That's what I used and it worked well. I finished the veneer the same way I did the rest of the kitchen, except I brushed on the finish instead of spraying it. It looked as good as the rest.

John

I believe this A1 advice !

[Mike Schuch]

I refaced my kitchen cabinet frames about 4 years ago with a maple veneer. They are still looking great.

1) After cleaning and sanding the face frames fill all holes and voids with Bondo, even the hinge screw holes. Then sand the bondo flat. Any imperfections will show through the veneer if you don't fill them. I found I could fill these imperfections with Bondo and sand back to perfectly flat in about a half hour because Bondo cures so quickly. Some of the original rail/stile intersection joints were not perfectly flat... BONDO!

2) I used 1/8" maple veneered plywood for new end panels. I cut the plywood large then trimmed it with a flush trim bit on a router. Even with this flush trimming the joint between the old face frame and the 1/8" end panel is not perfectly flat. I used Bondo to create a perfectly smooth transition.

3) I made my own version of the tool shown below out of a harbor freight ruler and a couple of small pieces of angle iron (Aluminum actually). This worked great and really helped make perfect seams where rails meet stiles.
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4) I used a paper cutter to cut the strips of veneer to a length just a little bit long (~1/4" - 1/2"). This left a nice sharp square edge as the start of the next strip. The extra length was then trimmed after the piece was applied to the face frame.

The veneer I used I found on Craigslist so I don't know exactly what it was. It was not a PSA veneer. It came in long strips about 6" wide and it had a "micro" cloth on the back. I used contact cement and it worked great. I was surprised at how well it wrapped around the face frames. After all the veneer was applied I went over the veneer with a 180 grit sanding block to smooth out any minor bumps then finished. This worked great! I bought 4 x 20 pound roles of the Maple veneer for $200 off of the Craigslist seller. I have 3 & 7/8's roles left! :D

Nobody has ever been able to tell that my face frames have been veneered even when looking closely at them. They would have to stick their head into a cabinet and look at the back side of the stiles to realize that they were veneered.

Those disposable craft knifes where you break off multiple 1/8" pieces from the end to create a new cutting surface were excellent! Much much better than a utility knife. A good sharp cutting edge makes a huge difference in the finished results.

[roger wiegand]

My strong preference for applying veneer, especially on small surfaces like this, is hot hide glue. It's quick, doesn't require any clamps or vacuum bags, and it's easy to fix mistakes because you can re-melt the glue and move things around or iron out bubbles. All my tries with pressure sensitive contact adhesives turned out disastrously. (Obviously others are better at it than I am!)

To get a perfect joint you put down a piece of veneer a bit oversize, lay the adjoining piece (also oversize) on top of it, then use a sharp knife to cut through both layers. Pull back the top layer to allow you to pull out the scrap from the bottom layer then press the top back into place. Even if your cut isn't perfect the joint will be. Obviously this won't work with a one-time-stick glue.

[Chris Padilla]

For sharp knives, I recommend a modest investment in a scalpel handle and scalpel knives. Swann-Morton makes a very nice blade holder and you can pick up a 100-pack of blades for under $20 on eBay. You'll find all kinds of reasons to use these incredibly sharp blades. Xacto can't touch 'em for sharpness. You an also resharpen the blades on a stone if you want to be able to hand down the 100-pack to your grandchildren. :D

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[Mike Schuch]

To get a perfect joint you put down a piece of veneer a bit oversize, lay the adjoining piece (also oversize) on top of it, then use a sharp knife to cut through both layers. Pull back the top layer to allow you to pull out the scrap from the bottom layer then press the top back into place. Even if your cut isn't perfect the joint will be. Obviously this won't work with a one-time-stick glue.

This procedure makes a lot of sense when you have 2 flat pieces of veneer... but it does not translate well to wrapping rail and stiles because the veneer is wrapped around the rail/stiles which would require unwrapping the veneer for the described sandwiched cuts.

To veneer the joint I show above the tool allows you to make very repeatable cuts. So I would apply the veneer to the face of the rail. Cut down the veneer on each side of the stile so the veneer can be folded down over the top of the rail on each side of the stile. Then use the tool to cut off the excess veneer contacting the stile.

To wrap the stile I would use a squared off cut piece of veneer and butt it against the existing rail veneer on one end of the stile. On the other end of the stile I would leave the veneer 1/4" long. I would use the wrapped rail as a guide to cut off the extra 1/4" of veneer on the sides of the stile allowing me to wrap the stile. Then use the tool to cut a perfectly matching joint to the existing veneer on the rail.

This works very well and leaves VERY tight joints. Since contact cement needs 2 prepared surfaces to stick to each other the off cuts come off easily since there is no mating surface covered with contact cement on the off cuts.


The snap off for a new edge disposable knives worked very well for me... but those scalpels look very intriguing!

[Chris Padilla]

The snap off for a new edge disposable knives worked very well for me... but those scalpels look very intriguing!

I picked this up from a veneer class I took from a guy named Paul Schurch. Now I use this scalpel blade for all sorts of things where a super duper sharp knife is helpful. They work extremely nicely for cutting veneer. My recent use is taping off plywood in readying for glue-up to deal with squeeze out. I put blue tape along an edge of plywood and then I slice the excess right off with very little effort and clean as a whistle and the tape is right at the edge. There is no way to get it closer. Works beautifully.

[roger wiegand]

This procedure makes a lot of sense when you have 2 flat pieces of veneer... but it does not translate well to wrapping rail and stiles because the veneer is wrapped around the rail/stiles which would require unwrapping the veneer for the described sandwiched cuts.



Never occurred to me to try that, it's an interesting idea. Do you soak or steam the veneer to get it to bend to such a tight radius without breaking? Even if its the modern stuff that's only 1/32" thick that would seem to be hard to accomplish consistently, especially if the wood is at all brittle. I bought a small mountain of veneer from a retiring cabinet guy several decades ago, and it's all at least 1/16", so I haven't bought any new in a very long time. I just do the edges, trim, then the faces. You do see a bit of glue line at the corners if you look.

[Mike Schuch]

Never occurred to me to try that, it's an interesting idea. Do you soak or steam the veneer to get it to bend to such a tight radius without breaking? Even if its the modern stuff that's only 1/32" thick that would seem to be hard to accomplish consistently, especially if the wood is at all brittle. I bought a small mountain of veneer from a retiring cabinet guy several decades ago, and it's all at least 1/16", so I haven't bought any new in a very long time. I just do the edges, trim, then the faces. You do see a bit of glue line at the corners if you look.

I figured this out because I figured I would do a sandwich cut exactly as you described when I started the project. :rolleyes: It didn't take long to figure out the procedure I described. I made a tool like the one in the picture out of a steel ruler and a couple of pieces of angled aluminum. I put my pieces of angled aluminum on the same side of the ruler so I could easily hook the aluminum guides over the rail/style I was cutting.

The veneer I used was no where near 1/32" thick. It was very thin and I believe the "micro" fabric on the back made it very strong. (The link below describes a fleece backed veneer which sounds like it is a pretty accurate description). I really didn't think I would be able to bend sharp 90 degree corners... but it bent remarkably well. I didn't have a single piece crack or splinter like one would expect wood to do. It did not require any soaking or steaming. I have never seen any other veneer like it. The closest I can find on the internet is: http://www.wooden-veneer.com/6-1-veneer-fleece-backing.html/125554 which describes it very well because the micro fabric on the back isn't a woven fabric. Running the sanding block with 180 grit paper over the flats sharpened up the corners without sanding through the veneer. I probably have enough of this veneer to do at least 50 kitchens if not more. I believe the veneer came from some company that specialized in resurfacing kitchen cabinets due to the huge amount of veneer in the rolls and how perfectly it worked.

The veneer I have is about 5 1/2" wide and very long rolls. 5 1/2" was wider than needed but gave plenty of excess for trimming. 3 of the rolls of veneer had about 10' long strips of veneer taped together with butt joints and taped on the back. The forth roll actually has 10' strips finger jointed together and is more like a single LONG strip. This looks simular: http://www.pro-edgeproducts.com/index.php?cPath=48

I can try to post a picture of a piece of the veneer if anyone is interested?

My kitchen cabinets were oak frames with those tacky laminate doors. I always hated the look of the kitchen but never really considered veneering the frames until I ran across the described veneer on craigslist. My father made the new maple panel doors and drawer fronts for me.

[Shawn Pixley]

When I did it, I had a 4'x8' sheet of PSA veneer made. I cut it with a combination of a HD snap blade utility knife and a scapel. Veneering the FF was a morning project. I carefully cut using a square. I finished with a polyurethane.