Saw blade sizes and the Sawstop

[Jon Nuckles]

I recently bought a Sawstop PCS and was suddenly made aware that saw blade sizes are not uniform. As I was setting up the saw, I could not get the riving knife adjusted below the level of the blade. I called Sawstop technical service to see if I was doing something wrong, and the rep asked what brand of blade I was using. When I told him it was a Freud (Industrial), he told me to measure it. Sure enough, it was significantly smaller than 10", though I can't recall the exact diameter now. He said he had fielded many calls of this type and most of them were with Freud blades. This blade was brand new, so the smaller size was not a result of repeated sharpenings. The Sawstop rep's theory is that Freud's blades are made to a metric standard.

The fix for the riving knife was simply to grind a little bit off the top, which was no big deal. The small blade size does cause a bigger problem for me, though. When I switch over to my Freud 8" Super Dado set and the Sawstop dado brake cartridge, I have to adjust the spacing between the blade and the brake. When I was looking at table saws, one of my biggest hesitations about going with the Sawstop was the time necessary to switch between the dado brake cartridge and the blade brake cartridge. More than one salesperson assured me that it was quick and easy and that I would not need to adjust the spacing each time. I assume that is true with true 10" blades and true 8" dado sets, but it is not the case with my Freud blades.

I like Freud's upper level blades, but I am likely to switch in the future because of this issue. I also have some concern that I won't be able to use the blade on the Sawstop after repeated sharpenings, as it might be too small to work with the brake cartridge. Just wanted to let others who have or are considering buying a Sawstop know that they should measure their sawblades before buying.

[Frank Pratt]

Good thing to watch for. I'm about to buy a SawStop PSC so I will go measure my blades to see how they stack up. Another issue that I haven't got a solution for is that I occasionally have the need to use cut an extremely thin kerf & the only blade I've found that is thin enough is a 7 1/4" circ saw blade. SawStop does not make a cartridge that will work with a blade that small.

[John Schweikert]

I have a Freud Heavy Duty rip blade and found out a month ago when trying to cut none-through slots in a walnut block that the PCS riving knife was taller than the blade by about a 1/32" or 1/16". I will grind down the tip of the knife but haven't yet.

[Rod Sheridan]

Jon, almost the entire world is metric so it's very likely that you have a 250mm blade which is 9.84".

I can't imagine that SS would design a saw without taking that very small adjustment requirement into consideration, although it certainly appears that they have.

What do they do for the remainder of the world?

Regards, Rod.

[Lee Reep]

[...]
He said he had fielded many calls of this type and most of them were with Freud blades. This blade was brand new, so the smaller size was not a result of repeated sharpenings. The Sawstop rep's theory is that Freud's blades are made to a metric standard.



I thought I read some time back that some (all?) of their blades are Italian. But you would think that a 10" blade sold here would be correctly sized for the US market, as in measuring 254mm. Maybe the size was set to something even like 250mm?

You bought a premium saw, so I'd buy the best, and IMHO, that is a Forrest blade. I was going to buy a SawStop, and bought a Festool track saw last year instead, so I decided I would live with my contractor style table saw for another year or so. I bought a Forrest Woodworker II, in thin kerf for the table saw. Unbelievable rip cuts in tough hardwoods. Gave my 1.75HP saw some new life.

But I will still buy a SawStop at some point. I've had the opportunity to use one, and they are nice machines. I'd treat yourself to a Forrest blade. And no, I'm not a paid spokesperson for Forrest, I just use their blades and wouldn't go back to any lower-priced blades. I've used Freud and Amana, and they are decent, but I still think Forrest is better. If I recall, Woodworker's Journal rated the Forrest blades as the highest quality in the competitive shoot out a couple years ago. Expensive, yes, but this is definitely one category of product where you get what you pay for.

[David Kumm]

Except for Forrest, and maybe FS tool, most good blades are Metric. Leitz, Leuco, Royce Ayr, Nap Gladu, Guhdo etc. Not sure about the Amana plates. Dave

[Jon Nuckles]

I used a thin kerf Forrest Woodworker II and a thin kerf Freud on a hybrid saw prior to getting the Sawstop. I preferred the Freud, so I bought the full kerf Freud for the Sawstop. I might have to give the Forrest another chance.

[Dave Lehnert]

I have a JET cabinet saw. Freud blades always fit very tight on the arbor. I have to wiggle them on and off the arbor because they just fit. Other brand blades I have used just slide on and off with plenty of room. I have read others with the same thing.

[Wade Lippman]

I just bought a new Freud blade and it is marked 10". But I measured it and it is only 9.85"! Haven't used it yet, so I will have a talk with Rockler.
I have a Freud blade on my SS now and it measures a true 10".

Thanks for pointing this out.

[Clay Fails]

I have the SS ICS, and have 7 or 8 blades from various makers (Infinity, Forrest, CMT, Ridge Carbide, Freud). Never had the issue you describe with any of them. And changing the blade brake for dado blades is quick and painless. No gap adjustment needed. You might need to get different blades. The SS design is fine.

[Roy Turbett]

I have the SS ICS, and have 7 or 8 blades from various makers (Infinity, Forrest, CMT, Ridge Carbide, Freud). Never had the issue you describe with any of them. And changing the blade brake for dado blades is quick and painless. No gap adjustment needed. You might need to get different blades. The SS design is fine.

I have a SS ICS and had the exact same problem with a new 50 tooth Freud combination blade. I set the riving knife as low as it will go and still had to grind some off the top. Haven't tried my dado set yet.

[Jon Nuckles]

I have the SS ICS, and have 7 or 8 blades from various makers (Infinity, Forrest, CMT, Ridge Carbide, Freud). Never had the issue you describe with any of them. And changing the blade brake for dado blades is quick and painless. No gap adjustment needed. You might need to get different blades. The SS design is fine.

Just to clarify, I am not complaining about the SS design, nor even the Freud blade. Sorry it came off that way. I was just noting that they don't play well together so others can avoid my mistake. As you suggest, I will be getting different blades.

[Larry Frank]

I have the Sawstop PCS and use Freud blades. Yes I have to adjust the gap but otherwise no issues. The riving knife is higher than the blade sometimes but I alibi remove it for those cuts.

[glenn bradley]

I was lucky. My previous blades were all thin kerf and so went with my old saw when it left. I too am a big Freud fan but, had tried one of our own Tom Waltz (Carbide Processors) blades for a special purpose blade prior to getting the Saw Stop. When it was time to get my full kerf blades I just got them all from Tom and so accidentally avoided the problem. I don't usually dodge the bullet like that ;-) If you are buying blades of that caliber anyway, I would look at Tom's stuff. I had not really given this any thought but, my previous selections of blades; Freud, Amana, Forrest, Lietz, etc. were very different dimensions. This was made obvious by the readjustment of jigs and such when using different blades. I do not miss thatproblem and as a side benefit, missed the cartridge problem as well.

[Keith Hankins]

I have the 5HP ICS, and had a hiccup at the beginning. I like Forrest Blades, and changing between the Sawstop blades (I boght both types to give them a try), I had to adjust the cartridge due to the forrest not being a true 10" blade (it's under enough to be to far from the sensor). I called Forrest, and they told me that they had adjusted the width due to complaints from some saw mfg's that the true 10" would cause an issue. So I guess it was an issue of dam'd if you do and dam'd if you don't. Not a big issue since I primarily use my WWII anyway and not changed blades in a while.

I had one other issue. I have a specialty Forrest Blade for Ripping large stock (20T). I would make a cut at times and when I'd cut the saw off to reposition, and get an error alarm on the saw. Looking at the error chart on the saw, it indicated the brake was too far from the blade. I spoke with CS, and they explained that becuuse of the few teeth, the blade was stopping on a gap over the sensor, and causing the issue. Easy work around though. If I got the error, I'd just move the blade a bit and it would go away and the saw would start. It only has happened twice in the past year of owning it, so the odds of that blade stopping with the gap over the sensor is very remote.

Neither issue a biggie. Enjoy the SS, I have mine. Greatest saw I ever owned.

[David Ragan]

5hp ics ss here
i blew the brake on a plywood 200 tooth 10" blade cause i did not use my feeler gage for brake distance to blade. Like has been said 10" really is not 10". I use WWII blades

[Kevin Womer]

The Freud blade should work fine for though cuts, you could just remove the riving knife for non through cuts like when using a regular dado blade. I sometimes do this when I just need to make a few small dados or rabbits. I would check the distance to the brake just to be sure it doesn't fire when using that blade (with the yellow tool that comes with the SS).

[mreza Salav]

Most my blades have different sizes. Many indeed are not 10" exact as you noticed. Plus, even if they were after resharpening they might get smaller.
You have to adjust the brake distance when you install a new blade as the gap between the acrtridge and the blade should be the thickness of a nickle.
It's not a big deal to me as it is less time vs changing the actual blade, so I don't think it's a big deal.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

I have an ICS, and swap between the Freud Glueline Rip and my Forrest WWII all the time. When I first used the Freud, I had to adjust the gap, takes seconds. After that, I have not had to adjust for the Forrest. I don't think it's an issue. I also use an HD Avanti cheapo blade for junk wood. No adjustments. The Tenryu fits too.
I had to grind down my riving knife too. That took a long time. Maybe 15 seconds. All of this is non issues. Enjoy the saw it's a really good saw.

[David Ragan]

I had to grind down my riving knife too. That took a long time. Maybe 15 seconds. All of this is non issues. Enjoy the saw it's a really good saw.

Can you elaborate on this?

[glenn bradley]

5hp ics ss here
i blew the brake on a plywood 200 tooth 10" blade cause i did not use my feeler gage for brake distance to blade. Like has been said 10" really is not 10". I use WWII blades

Wait . . . what? Are you saying that the saw went into a "ready" state even though the cartridge gap was too small? Did Saw Stop have a comment on that? Just curious as a SS owner ;-)

[Jon Nuckles]

I agree that grinding down the riving knife is a quick and one time job, and it is a non-issue. The gap adjustment is quick, but I'll have to do it every time I switch between my dado set and the Freud blade that is undersized. That is not a non-issue to me and I will choose a different brand of blade next time.

To David R.: If you have a bench grinder, it only takes a few seconds to take a bit off the top edge near the tip of the riving knife so it will sit below the top edge of the blade. If you want to be precise about it, you can raise the blade so it sticks out of the table insert by 1/32" or whatever the Sawstop manual recommends and then mark on the riving knife where it exits the insert. Grind to that line. Precision isn't really required, though; just make sure it's lower than the blade.