Anyone ever tackle a Radial Arm Saw rebuild?

[Todd Burch]

I'm doing one now. I figured I didn't have enough incomplete projects, so figured I would start another one. ;)

It's all disassembled, some parts painted, and some already back together. It's a '68 Rockwell 33-694 "Plus 10", which means it's a 12" RAS. Go figure.
Not much doc on the internet about it. A couple for sale, and I did find the parts diagram over on Vintage Machinery.

Only thing I've needed to order so far were 5 bearings - one for the column up/down screw (marginal) and the 4 for the yoke-to-carraige connection (toast). Once I get into the motor, I might need more. The saw turned on when I plugged it in with the switch was in the OFF position. It has a 240 plug on it, but seems to be wired for 120 inside. I was hesitant to touch the frame with it plugged in!! All the wiring insulation was brittle and cracked everywhere. I'll get some pictures later.

I acquired this the summer of '13 when I bought a big lot of tools at auction. This was one of the "Oh, I get that too?" machines that came in the lot.

Todd

[Cary Falk]

I have done a DeWalt MBF and currently have a GWI. Probably the easier of my rebuilds.

[Jim Davenport]

Rebuilding old iron can be challenging. But it's very rewarding.
Delphi has a Dewalt RAS forum. There's some information about Delta's on here.
I'm suprised the vintage forum didn't have more info.
Here's my restored 1956 vintage Dewalt MBF.


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[Bruce Volden]

Funny you should ask! I'm in the middle of an MBF rebuild myself--things were going great until I got to the motor (needs bearings). I cannot figure out how to remove the fan from the shaft in order to get the back bearing out?? I think the fan/shaft is splined, the fan is "pot metal"? and I'm hesitant to muscle it off. I tried using my heat gun but no luck there.

Anyway it's been sitting for quite some time now but I figger I'll have an epiphany any day now.

Bruce

[Cary Falk]

Funny you should ask! I'm in the middle of an MBF rebuild myself--things were going great until I got to the motor (needs bearings). I cannot figure out how to remove the fan from the shaft in order to get the back bearing out?? I think the fan/shaft is splined, the fan is "pot metal"? and I'm hesitant to muscle it off. I tried using my heat gun but no luck there.

Anyway it's been sitting for quite some time now but I figger I'll have an epiphany any day now.

Bruce


The fan on the MBF is just pressed on the shaft. You need a gear puller to pull it off but don't pull from the outside of the fan. DAMHIKT.

[John TenEyck]

I did a partial restore on a GWI about 20 years ago; mostly just replacing the carriage bearings and a few missing parts. It ran great until last year when I noticed the blade took a long time to stop and the cut quality had diminished even with a newly sharpened blade. Hmmm, time for new motor bearings. Getting the motor apart is pretty easy - getting the fan off can be quite a challenge. You definitely do not want to pull on that pot metal fan. If you have a large arbor press it's really easy, but I did it with a modified gear puller. You have to put wood or metal bars under the fan right up tight to the shaft and pull on those. It will come right off.

Except for the motor Dewalt RAS's are pretty simple machines and not very hard to get back into good working order. I went through the owner's manual to get everything aligned properly when I first rehabbed it and have only had to readjust the carriage once or twice in all the years I've been using it.

Edit: If you don't want to replace the bearings yourself you can send the motor to Wolfe Machinery and they will do it for you. http://www.wolfemachinery.com/

John

[Todd Burch]

Nice looking saws guys! Got any before pictures? Here are my before pictures. Not that bad, overall. Missing a few do-dads here and there.

[Rick Potter]

Just a guess, but to me, it looks like a plus 10 is the 10" saw with a larger blade guard to take a 12" blade.

Hank Metz, a member here, has a nice youtube video on rebuilding a DeWalt. Try under 'Beachside Hank'.

[Thomas Hotchkin]

Only thing I've needed to order so far were 5 bearings - one for the column up/down screw (marginal) and the 4 for the yoke-to-carraige connection (toast).

Todd
If the carriage bearing have round outer edges they may be a little hard to find. Beachside Hank did a post here repairing carriage bearings. I also did the same for my Dewalt GWI bearings, pop off the metal seal on one side and clean out all old sawdust and grease, and repack with grease and reinstall seal. Low speed bearings never ware out.

[Todd Burch]

They do have round outer edges, and I found them for $8.25/each at Accurate Bearing. The replacement bearings are apparently Nachi 81004. My originals are MRC 200 SFF 23. Perhaps mine are just goo'ed up too. When spun (rolled), they grab and let go and grab and let go. There was a lot of heavy grease in and around the bearings and the machined tracks. I did see Hank's video, so if the new bearings arrive and aren't the right ones, I'll do what you and Hank did.

The gearbox bearing for the vertical screw that raises and lowers the column is a NICE 603 1/4. Accurate Bearing had that too. $6.00.

I'm having a heck of a time finding a replacement 2.5" knob for tightening the table boards. They are a press fit with a 5/16" hole. Both of my rods that attach to these knobs are bent, but fixable. If I can't find one replacement, then I'll get two replacements so they match.

The two rectangle bars that the tables sit on are bent up too. I can flatten them, no big deal.

I was able to get my column to a mirror finish with some maroon scotchbrite and Autosol metal polish. It looks awesome. I also used Autosol aluminum polish for the column crank arm, one of the cam clamp knobs and the top miter gauge - they all look brand new.

I would like to find a new IN-OUT Rip Scale. My red pointer was bent into the scale, and galled into the aluminum the scale for its length along the outer rip scale. But, alas, it is also no longer available.

[Todd Burch]

Here are a couple progress pictures.

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I'm using Rustoleum Dark Machine Gray for the frame, legs, column and overarm and Light Machine Gray for the carriage and yoke / motor (yoke and motor not painted yet).

I would have preferred flat over gloss, but gloss is what was on the shelf.

Question… what's the best way to clean up the data plate without loosing the original black and red paint? I'm using TSP (premixed) for the iron parts. It works amazing, but I feel it would be too aggressive for the data plate.

[Thomas Hotchkin]

I would like to find a new IN-OUT Rip Scale. My red pointer was bent into the scale, and galled into the aluminum the scale for its length along the outer rip scale. But, alas, it is also no longer available.

Todd
When I did my Dewalt Radial Arm Saw, I also had rip scales that where damaged. My son and I used Window's Excel to make printable decals replacements, they came out very nice.

[Roy Turbett]

[/U][/B]Todd
If the carriage bearing have round outer edges they may be a little hard to find. Beachside Hank did a post here repairing carriage bearings. I also did the same for my Dewalt GWI bearings, pop off the metal seal on one side and clean out all old sawdust and grease, and repack with grease and reinstall seal. Low speed bearings never ware out.

The GWI carriage bearings are still available from the Original Saw Company. They cost about $120 for four of them. Usually the orignal bearings can be cleaned and reused.

[Todd Burch]

If the carriage bearing have round outer edges they may be a little hard to find. Beachside Hank did a post here repairing carriage bearings. I also did the same for my Dewalt GWI bearings, pop off the metal seal on one side and clean out all old sawdust and grease, and repack with grease and reinstall seal. Low speed bearings never ware out.

How do you pop off the metal sides?

[Myk Rian]

Funny you should ask! I'm in the middle of an MBF rebuild myself--things were going great until I got to the motor (needs bearings). I cannot figure out how to remove the fan from the shaft in order to get the back bearing out?? I think the fan/shaft is splined, the fan is "pot metal"? and I'm hesitant to muscle it off. I tried using my heat gun but no luck there.
Make a backer board out of 3/4 or 1" ply. Pull on that with a puller.

[Roy Turbett]

How do you pop off the metal sides?

There is no need to remove the sides. Soak the bearings in brake fluid and spin them on the drill press. Repeat as necessary until they are smooth. These bearings don't need a whole lot of lubrication and you can get by with WD-40, You can also use a vacuum to draw oil into the bearing. Some guys recommend chain saw oil. There are several youtube videos on the subject.

[Todd Burch]

I finally found a solution to clean the data plates. A light touch with a brillo pad. It's gotta be a VERY light touch. Rinsing often to watch your progress is a must. #0000 steel wool would have been less aggressive, but I think whatever the blue soap is in a brillo pad really helped. Scrubbing with mineral spirits didn't touch the gunk that was on them. Neither did swiping with lacquer thinner. I had TSP to test with, but I felt it would be too aggressive. Once TSP starts cutting - watch out! It's a paint remover if you dilly dally.

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(I had considered running these through the dishwasher… but decided getting caught wasn't worth the risk of bodily injury.)

Now, another question. Several of these data plates were attached with small rivets. I was able to punch them out from the back. However, other data plates, and the aluminum circular miter gauge near the motor, have blind holes for their rivets. How to get these out? Punch a divot and then drill them out? They can't the pried out.

Todd

[Myk Rian]

Now, another question. Several of these data plates were attached with small rivets. I was able to punch them out from the back. However, other data plates, and the aluminum circular miter gauge near the motor, have blind holes for their rivets. How to get these out? Punch a divot and then drill them out? They can't the pried out.

Todd
Use a Dremel to cut a slot in them. TAP a screwdriver in the slot to break the corrosion bond. Twist them out. Works about 80% of the time.
Tapping them with a drift also works, if you can get a drift behind them.
New ones.
http://www.owwm.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=100252

[Todd Burch]

For the ones I pressed out, I've just been hammering them back in. Think they'll fall out?

Got my bearings in the mail today. Gearbox is back in, and I've started the column reinstall. White lithium grease on the teeth.

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[Todd Burch]

Use a Dremel to cut a slot in them. TAP a screwdriver in the slot to break the corrosion bond. Twist them out. Works about 80% of the time.


And what do you do the other 20% of the time? Drill 'em out?

[Mike Schuch]

I would like to find a new IN-OUT Rip Scale. My red pointer was bent into the scale, and galled into the aluminum the scale for its length along the outer rip scale. But, alas, it is also no longer available.

I grew up learning woodworking on a Delta 10" turret arm RAS as our only stationary saw and we ripped several thousands linear feet of stock on that saw... safely I might add. In all those years we never once used the RIP scale on the arm. We ALWAYS measured from the fence to the blade! My point is that the rip scale is completely useless in my opinion. If you want to replace yours for looks (I would want to replace it) I would recommend using a metal blade self adhesive tape like the ones that are used on table saw fences. Just cut it to the length you need. I would not worry about accurately lining it up because it is really just window dressing.

P.S. Please post the detail on the rounded bearings you purchased for the arm, where you purchased them and whether they work for you as these are usually very difficult to find.

[Todd Burch]

P.S. Please post the detail on the rounded bearings you purchased for the arm, where you purchased them and whether they work for you as these are usually very difficult to find.

Mike, see post #10 above.

[Todd Burch]

More pics. First up, a bearing comparison. New Nachi 81004 on the left and the old MRC 200 SFF 23 on the right.
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Saw as it currently exists.
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Rip Scale, all galled up.
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Close up of one of the table support rail studs. Seems I missed a bit on this one with my wire wheel.
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Column crank handle.
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[Todd Burch]

Blade guard. Flat black and a red paint pen.

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[Bill Ryall]

In the middle of one. Picked up a Dewalt for the princely sum of "get it the h*ll out of here, and I'll even help you load it". Excellent mechanical condition, lightly used, but UGLY. Prior owner had sloppily brushed blue paint all over it.