What wood would you use, and . . .?

[Wayne Jolly]

I am going to be building a chairside table (or two, or three) in the near future. I intend to use plywood for the case, and then a hardwood for all trim, drawer fronts, top, etc., and Poplar for the drawer boxes. SWMBO wants them to be dark so I was going to build them using Walnut, and POSSIBLY even using a dark stain on that. Then I started thinking "why not just make them black?" SWMBO is ok with that, so I am thinking seriously about it. But if they are indeed going to be black, why not save a bunch of money and use something cheaper than walnut? If I do decide to make them black, I would like them to be fairly plain without much grain showing, so a tight, closed grain wood would be good. And this piece will get used quite a bit, probably moved quite a bit, so it needs to be a relatively hard wood. I have thought about Poplar, pine, maple, Red Oak, and MDF. I'm not sure about poplar and it's standing the test of time (I know it is used quite a bit as a secondary wood, and for drawers, and they seem to be ok.). It might also be a little soft. Pine is also probably too soft, and it would show a LOT of grain. Maple? Well there goes the cost savings. MDF?? Eeesh. I hate MDF, it would be heavy, and again I wonder about it's ability to stand the test of time. I haven't had too many MDF pieces, but the ones that I have had did not hold up very well. And Red Oak since it is about 1/2 the cost of Walnut, but there is the grain. I suppose I could use a grain filler, so that is looking like the best choice for me at this point. So, What wood would you use,

And . . .? What would you make it black with? Black dye, stain, ink, paint, ebonizing? Right now I am thinking that using India Ink would probably give me the fastest and most consistent color simply because I don't think you can get blacker than that. At the moment, I'm thinking Red Oak, grain filler, India ink, and then finish it with some Polyurethane.

Any suggestions welcome,

Wayne

[Chris Hachet]

I really dislike using plywood for anything other than jigs and kitchen cabinet backs, so take this with a grain of salt. I would use Soft or hard maple depending on price, and build everything from solid wood. Black stain or dye is fairly simple to do, and maple IMHO is much more enjoyable to work with than Poplar.

Please be aware that any really dark furniture is going to show dust much more rapidly. It also will show off any mistakes you make much more clearly IMHO.

If a piece is going to be used quite a lot, as you say, dings and dents can be steamed or sanded out of solid wood....once you damage the veneer on plywood it is a major pain to get looking right again.

I would suggest that there is additional work in gluing up panels and using solid wood....but all of those skills will be useful when you decide to build a more elaborate piece of furniture, or something like a guitar.

I can get maple for about $1.50 a board foot from the sawmill direct, or it is about $4.50 a BF from Wood Wekrs here in Columbus where I buy most of my lumber. If your buying 60 board feet of lumber to build three tables (30 might be more like it) $75 in additional cost for three tables you will use the rest of your life is not actually that much money.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Chris

[Peter Quinn]

I would use soft maple for the parts down low, hard maple for the table top maybe, soft if its a lower use item, hard takes a hit better, eboniize it with aniline dye or general finishes black gel stain or dye stain. Both are pretty black, also could use lamp black milk paint with WB poly over it, or something like trans tints black. Lots of ways to get there. I would not waste my time and money on real walnut if your intention is to negate the rich brown color and handsome slightly open grain and glow. I see clients at work all the time chose walnut then pick a jacobean dark muddy muck stain, might as well buy alder and paint it java mocha if you want the pottery barn look.

Also, walnut is not a particularly hard hard wood, its strong and resilient but takes marks and dents easily. If you want a table you can beat, walnuts not your best choice. Regarding cost, in my area black walnut is over $6.30/bf average with up to a 30% waste factor, soft maple is $3.25/bf, white all sap eastern hard maple is around $5.25/bf retail, both have 10%-15% waste factor, maybe less depending on how the boards match the parts, so its not contest cost wise, walnut is very nearly double all in, and walnut plywood in an A-1 grade is a solid double the cost of same grade of maple ply. Check your local yard.

Poplar could work, problem is it dents easily so if its died black you can easily expose the lighter wood underneath, maple stands a better chance IMO.

[John TenEyck]

Soft maple would be my choice and I'd use General Finishes Black Enduro Poly to finish it; color and finish all in one.

John

[Wayne Jolly]

Thanks all,

when I wrote my initial post, I had not looked at Maple prices for some time and I thought they were higher than they are. Having looked into it a little, my lumber prices do seem to be a tad higher than yours depending on grade. Still, Maple is looking pretty good. For me, I can drive about 60 miles to MacBeaths and get
1. Hard Maple 1" Sel&Better for about $5/bf
2. Soft Maple 1" Sel&Better for around $4.50/bf
3. Black Walnut 1" FAS for about $9.50
I have heard many good things about MacBeaths, but my experiences are a little different. I went there a few years ago to get some Walnut, but their selection didn't impress me. It seemed to be very light in color compared to what I had seen elsewhere, and had a lot of streaking. It almost looked like alternating bands of heartwood and sapwood. While I was there, I bought three sheets of 1/2" birch plywood for other projects. I didn't get to it right away, and about 3 years later when I finally did get to it all three sheets had some de-lamination. One sheet was so bad that I could not use any of it and threw it all out.

There is also a Big B Lumberteria just a couple of miles from here, but their wood is pretty well machined to 3/4 already. Not much wiggle room for getting all pieces to the same thickness. I don't remember what the prices are since I haven't been there for a while, but they deal in mostly construction materials.

There is also another small retailer that is only about 30 miles away that I have been using. He seems to get better quality wood than the other two, but his prices show it. I think his walnut price is over $10/bf now (grade unknown but either S&B or FAS), and I don't remember his Maple prices. One word about his Maple, I have had a pretty bad time with it cupping after machining.

As for using plywood, The sides are the only plywood pieces that would be visible, and since they would be protected by a chair on either side there isn't TOO much risk to them. I might still consider solid wood for the sides, but still use plywood for the interior partitions, top (sub top?? The one that the real top would be attached to.), and bottom.

Also, I am VERY aware how black shows dust. My table saw extension table, a 3' x 6' work table, and my router table all have black surfaces on them. Plus, the "thing" we are using or the chair-side table right now is a black aquarium table from Walmart or some such place. So yeah, VERY aware. :eek:

The top will see a lot of use, but I don't think it will really take too much of a beating. It's where we keep and charge our laptop computer, and that will probably be the biggest abuse of the top. That laptop seems to be getting a lot of use so it is taken up and put back a lot. There is also a phone, one or more of the assorted remote controls we have, and I have been keeping my mini-quad copter there for charging. I might also consider putting glass on it although I'd really rather not.

Thanks for all the input,

Wayne

[Jim Matthews]

There's another build using Oak that has been stained a very dark color.
The results were spectacular.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?226607-Two-White-Oak-Dressers

FWIW - I'm with you on using plywood for the larger panels. Properly sealed with a gel finish, it should be sharp looking.
There's lots of fine furniture which incorporates plywood construction. It makes dollars and sense to build this way.

Search the Woodworking Projects for reference.

[Jim Andrew]

I worked in a custom shop for a while, and we built some maple cabinets, really high end, and did samples over and over again, and the buyer finally approved the color, and it looked exactly like walnut. I thought, if they ever have to touch up a spot, bet they wish they had gone with real walnut, so they could just sand it down and put on some clear finish.