Hand Plane "digging in" on QS maple

[Marty Tippin]

I have a custom-made maple workbench top, laminated from 2" wide maple boards (made for me at a local cabinet shop about a year ago). The top wasn't as flat as I thought it should be, so I decided to whip out my WoodRiver #4 plane (the only plane I own) and smooth it out a bit.

For the most part, I got great results -- except in a few areas where the boards are in a quarter-sawn orientation and the plane would dig in and make a pretty good gouge. Unfortunately now I've got a mostly-smooth and flat workbench top with several rough gouges that I can't really fix. Darn it.

The plane was generally oriented at an angle to the boards for more of a shear cut, the blade is razor sharp and I was taking the thinnest shavings I could manage. But still I got gouges on the quarter-sawn boards. On the boards that weren't quarter-sawn, I just got beautiful, smooth, flat cuts.

I'll confess to being a hand plane novice, so I'm sure there was something wrong in my technique. My guess is a low-angle plane would have been better for the quarter-sawn boards. The plane also does not have an adjustable mouth and maybe that was part of the problem also.

Any suggestions as to what I should have done differently would be appreciated!

[Kevin Bourque]

Try using a card scraper on the tougher grain.

[Jason Beam]

Did you try pushing the plane the other direction in those areas?

[Pat Barry]

Lots of discussion in Neanderthal department about setting the chip breaker very very close to the cutting edge to minimize the tearout propensity

[Joe Williams]

I had a lot of trouble like that when I bought my first planes, largely junk planes from the auction site with a few decent type 2-12 Stanley's that I was able to repair. For what it's worth, when I encountered that problem, lateral and opposite direction really helped, I also moved the chipbreaker closer to the edge of the iron and that helped quite a bit.

It's worth going to your local yard and getting a mountain grained wide cut-off that you can practice on. For me, that was my first board I ever planed and I couldn't figure out what I was doing wrong for the life of me until I realized I had all grain directions in that little test board. I have seen some smoothers that seem immune to any issue with figure and grain but I have never owned any.

[Robert Hazelwood]

This sounds like tear-out, which is one of the issues you have to deal with using hand planes (and just about every other tool that cuts wood). But it can be dealt with effectively most of the time. The first line of defense is to use a very sharp blade- you said you have that covered. The next strategy is to alter the direction you're planing. It can be tough to tell the grain orientation on QS wood because you can't rely on the growth rings. Did you notice things improving on the trouble spots if you switch direction? On a laminated top like most workbenches, you may have to alter planing direction on each board of the glue up...and possibly each board may require different planing directions along its length. I would try experimenting with different directions. You can make a map with pencil marks after figuring out which directions work best in each spot.

Another means of controlling tearout is by adjusting the size of the mouth to be as small as possible (ideally the same thickness as the shaving you're taking). On your plane, which I assume is a Bedrock clone, you would close the mouth opening by moving the frog forward. There are three screws on the back of the frog; the two on each side engage pins that lock the frog down to the sole- loosening these will enable you to turn the center screw, which will move the frog forward and back. When you're done with the adjustment, tighten the outer screws to lock down the frog. A tight mouth helps control tearout by keeping downward pressure on the wood directly in front of the cutting edge, preventing it from lifting up and out of the wood surface.

Additionally, on a bevel-down double-iron plane like yours, you have a chipbreaker (piece that screws to the cutting iron) that can be adjusted. This is my preferred way of dealing with tearout. First, you usually have to do a little prep to the chipbreaker. Check that the contact area on the chipbreaker where it meets the back of the cutting iron is perfectly flat and there are no gaps between the blade back and the chipbreaker at the cutting edge. You can flatten this area on a stone if it needs work. You also need to hone a small bevel on the end of the chipbreaker (On the "edge" of it, on the the side that faces up when installed in the plane) of about 40 degrees. Now, you can move the chipbreaker *very* close to the cutting edge (something like 1/64"- basically I just move the chipbreaker closer and closer to the cutting edge until I can only just barely see a sliver of light reflecting from the polished blade back. This works to mitigate tearout because as soon as the shaving is cut by the edge, it meets the bevel on the chipbreaker and is deflected sharply upwards, which breaks the fibers so that they no longer have enough strength to tear out the wood ahead of the cutter. If you can get this set up right, you can plane most any board without worrying about planing direction or having a tight mouth.

Finally, you can control tearout by increasing the effective cutting angle of the blade. On a standard bevel down plane like yours, the cutting angle is equal to the frog's incline, which is 45 degrees. You can increase this by honing a back bevel on the cutting iron. If you hone a 25 degree back bevel (which doesn't need to be large at all), this will add to the 45 degree frog angle for an effective cutting angle of 70 degrees. This will behave almost more like a scraper than a plane, and you should not have issues with tearout. Since the back bevel is not easily removed, you'd normally want to have an extra blade to do this to. If you were to get a bevel down plane, this is the method you'd use to control tearout, but instead of making a back bevel, you can just hone a steeper angle on the usual bevel.

The last note would be to make sure you are not trying to take too deep of a shaving. This is a problem for beginners with planes. Any problems you might have will be made worse by trying to take too thick of a shaving.

Also, the Neanderthal Haven forum has a lot of information about this. Best of luck - Robert

[Robert Hazelwood]

For me, that was my first board I ever planed and I couldn't figure out what I was doing wrong for the life of me until I realized I had all grain directions in that little test board. I have seen some smoothers that seem immune to any issue with figure and grain but I have never owned any.

The chipbreaker information I mentioned is what enabled me to get my planes to this point, or very close. It's also a function of having the sole very flat, a shallow camber in the cutting iron, and a very sharp edge. It's enabled me to be very lazy about considering grain direction while working, as it doesn't seem to make a big difference (though it is slightly easier to plane with the grain, still).

[Fidel Fernandez]

A simple solution is to take thin shavings. It will take longer, but it won't tear out.
I am successful hand planning with my smoother in any wood with a back bevel.
You will have to sharp your smoother in a stepper angle let's say 35 degrees and back bevel (back of the blade) of 5 to 10 degrees.
So you are changing the standard angle of 45 (30 degree blade bevel plus 25 bed plane) to 55 to 60.
It will be a little harder to plane, but you can go to any direction and it won't make a tear out.

[Matt Day]

As the others have said:
Flatten the sole
Move the chipbreaker to about 1/32-1/16 from the edge of the blade
Move the Frog up to reduce the mouth
Take light cuts

I am relatively new to hand plans as well, but recently tuned up my garage sale finds and It is a night and day difference.

[Marty Tippin]

Excellent information, thanks to all who've replied. I suppose I should have characterized the issue as "tearout" as that seems more like what the effect is.

I'll look at adjusting the frog position to close the mouth a bit and see if I can move the chip breaker closer to the blade.

I was definitely taking the thinnest shaving I could manage - started with the blade not making contact and moved the adjusting knob a fraction of a turn until it started making shavings.

[Marc Seguin]

Since this is a new plane, not a refurbished old Stanley there should be no need to flatten the sole (I hope). A finely set chip breaker and working from different directions is going to yield better results for sure. Failing that, a card scraper is the ticket for tricky sections of reversing grain.

[Jim Matthews]

I have a stash of Quartersawn white oak.

I get my blades quite sharp, and can take a fine shaving.
I still get tearout in this material.

When I encounter a patch like this,
I use my trusty Bahco scraper...
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41T76EMVJBL.jpg

[steven c newman]

Ok. I usually just dub the corners on mine just a hair. A thin line of silver shows where the chipbreaker meets the edge AT the corners. I don't think I have any back bevel on mine. Instead of pushing straight ahead, I push at an angle to the direction I am going. More of a slice than a shave. And it is not just them hard hardwoods doing the tearout things, try good old Pine someday. Knotty Pine!

I use refurbbed Millers Falls #9 and a #8 size smoothers. I do have a York Pitch #3 available too. There are a couple older Stanleys, too. No after market, high tech irons are in the shop, haven't needed them.

[Chris Hachet]

I have a stash of Quartersawn white oak.

I get my blades quite sharp, and can take a fine shaving.
I still get tearout in this material.

When I encounter a patch like this,
I use my trusty Bahco scraper...
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41T76EMVJBL.jpg

try a 50 degree frog if it is a bevel down plane. I ahve a plane with a 50 degree frog, Iron is at about 30 plus degrees, no tear out on quarter saw white oak.

[Marty Tippin]

I re-sharpened the blade (via the Veritas Honing Guide), repositioned the chip breaker so that it was maybe 1/32 from the edge of the blade and moved the frog forward to close the gap. I set the blade to take a wafer-thin shaving and went to town on the workbench top. Try as I might, I couldn't get it to dig in or gouge or tear out anywhere, regardless of grain orientation. So I think some combination of the changes I made really fixed the hand plane. The plane is fine, but my arms are killing me...

[Jim Koepke]

The plane is fine, but my arms are killing me...

Do this often and you will have arms like Popeye. :D

jtk

[Chris Hachet]

I re-sharpened the blade (via the Veritas Honing Guide), repositioned the chip breaker so that it was maybe 1/32 from the edge of the blade and moved the frog forward to close the gap. I set the blade to take a wafer-thin shaving and went to town on the workbench top. Try as I might, I couldn't get it to dig in or gouge or tear out anywhere, regardless of grain orientation. So I think some combination of the changes I made really fixed the hand plane. The plane is fine, but my arms are killing me...

Welcome to the slippery slope of hand planes. It is an addiction....

[Chris Hachet]

...and yes, being really really razor sharp solves all sorts of sins.

[Prashun Patel]

Glad you found a method that works for you.

YMMV, but fiddling the frog is too much work for me.

Did you try planing from the other direction for that section?

Also, you had your plane skewed, but the motion was still parallel to the board edges, right? I have good luck moving the plane unskewed, but at an angle to the board edges on a panel. You don't have to go as drastic as 45 or 90 degrees as if you are flattening, but if you go at say 5 or 10 degrees across switchy grain, it can help.

Last, my greatest sin is moving to smoothing before I am perfectly flat. When this happens, the planes don't move uniformly over the surface, which makes it impossible to take a uniform shaving and can lead to gouges. This is also a problem when sanding and can result in oversanding some areas in frustration at not being able to reach others. Offensive swirls are the sanding equivalent to tearout from planes.

On smaller pieces, proper work holding is also an issue. But on a big bench, I doubt was an issue for you.

[Judson Green]

The plane is fine, but my arms are killing me...



Get yourself a box of paraffin wax and rub some on the plane bottom, makes planing a ton easier. Also good for use on handsaws and machine surfaces. Rub it on and don't bother wiping it off like you would if you were waxing something.

You can get it in the canning section of your local grocery store or hardware store.


305996

[Prashun Patel]

Marty, examine your technique. When I first started planing, I gave myself tennis elbow pretty quickly. I also developed lower back problems. Take the time to learn how to plane with your legs, hips, and core... Save yourself some chronic pain.

[Joe Bailey]

The plane was generally oriented at an angle to the boards for more of a shear cut ...

Note that this effectively lowers the cutting angle of the blade, thereby exacerbating the problem of tear out.

306005
illustration from FineWoodworking magazine

[Pat Barry]

Note that this effectively lowers the cutting angle of the blade, thereby exacerbating the problem of tear out.

306005
illustration from FineWoodworking magazine
This is an excellent point. Thanks for finding the illustration Joe.

[McKay Sleight]

One thing that I do not think was mentioned was to wet the offending grain. This has worked many times for me. Also, A toothing plane is a wonderful resource for this type of grain and also the end grain of dovetails. I made 7 sea chests for Christmas and used the toothing plane on all of the dovetail. Not one tore out.

[Richard Hutchings]

I don't understand this. I thought the normal operation for shaving dovetails would planning towards the box, in which case there would be no tear out possible. Also, a toothing plane leaves a rough surface that would need to be re-planed with a smoother. I have very little experience at this so I just want to understand why you are doing what you're doing. You obviously have much more experience than I do. "7 sea chests" I'd love to see these.


One thing that I do not think was mentioned was to wet the offending grain. This has worked many times for me. Also, A toothing plane is a wonderful resource for this type of grain and also the end grain of dovetails. I made 7 sea chests for Christmas and used the toothing plane on all of the dovetail. Not one tore out.

[Brian Holcombe]

This has likely been mentioned by now, but David Weaver has an excellent article written on the subject on minimizing tear out with hand plane tuning.

I have a jointer that is the workhorse of my shop, LN #7 bevel down. With the factory setup it was prone to some nasty tear out;

I opened the mouth, reground the blade at 32 degrees to an 8k finish, undercut the backside of the chip breaker and ground a heavy 45 degree bevel on it and set to a relatively tight setting. It has reduced to absolutely minimal tear out, even flattening crotch sections of walnut and so forth.

Most often I do not even need to run the smoother over it, I dial to a lighter cut for the last few passes on the jointer and I'm done.

[Jim Koepke]

This has likely been mentioned by now, but David Weaver has an excellent article written on the subject on minimizing tear out with hand plane tuning.

The article is on the Wood Central forum so the link can not listed here due to Terms of Service.

Googling > setting a cap iron < lists David's article first.

jtk

[Chris Hachet]

This has likely been mentioned by now, but David Weaver has an excellent article written on the subject on minimizing tear out with hand plane tuning.

I have a jointer that is the workhorse of my shop, LN #7 bevel down. With the factory setup it was prone to some nasty tear out;

I opened the mouth, reground the blade at 32 degrees to an 8k finish, undercut the backside of the chip breaker and ground a heavy 45 degree bevel on it and set to a relatively tight setting. It has reduced to absolutely minimal tear out, even flattening crotch sections of walnut and so forth.

Most often I do not even need to run the smoother over it, I dial to a lighter cut for the last few passes on the jointer and I'm done.

Exactly. A LV or LN plane tuned properly can equal any European infill IMHO in terms of working wood. Nice to see that your #7 is such a workhorse, I am thinking of adding a LV or LN #7 to my fleet of planes. I am finding my wooden Jointer to be really usefull...one more would be nice to have.

[bill tindall]

In Japan it is called a "cap iron" which does not mislead the reader as to how it works. The shaving rising up the plane blade runs into a dam created by the cap iron, which in turn results in a downward force exerted on the lifting shaving. This downward force resists the lifting of the shaving and mitigates splitting ahead of the blade tip. I believe the tight mouth works the same way only in this case the friction of the shaving in the tight mouth provides this downward force.

These is a simple fix for tear out. For the case at hand open up the mouth so as to not jam the shavings. Set the cap iron as close to the edge of the blade edge as you can get it. If the shaving becomes scrunched up like an accordion it is too close. If you get the cap iron close enough and the blade is sharp tear-out will be eliminated.

A video illustrating how the cap iron works can be found various place. Search "Kato planning video" or go to the link below
http://woodcentral.com/articles/handtools/articles_935.shtml