Planer causing a snipe stripe

[Anthony Whitesell]

I have a Delta 12 1/2" planer. I was using it yesterday and I found it doing something peculiar. I have seen, I have had snipe before. Where the last (or first) 2-3" of the board is thinner than the rest of the board. This is not what I had. I had a stripe, like a round bottom dado type cut in the board. It is about where I would expect snipe to start on the outfeed side, but then it stops. Has anyone seen or had this happen? I looked and pull and pushed on things to seen if there was anything loose, but I didn't see anything. I may not have looked in the right place or pushed the right way.

[glenn bradley]

A picture would help. Without visual aids I would guess a stock support issue. Once the material is past the infeed roller (on its way out of the machine) if you do not control the stock it will pivot on the outfeed roller's position. This generally causes snipe but can cause variations of same based on too many factors to speculate on. Are you controlling the stock on exit or just letting it roll out of the machine?

[Anthony Whitesell]

The board was 2' x 1.5". On the outfeed I tried supporting it upwards by hand, then tried a roller stand (something that would provide an even constant pressure), then tried placing my hand on top of the board to act as a second outfeed roller. No difference. The board looks like I had been on the jointer, where I pulled the guard back, placed the board down, then lifted it off, without sliding or feeding through so the head only made contact in one single spot.

[Ethan Melad]

Sounds like somehow the board is popping up into the cutter head and then being pushed back down again. Maybe your pressure bar is too high, so when the stock clears the infeed roller it does not have enough downward pressure? Then the rear roller pushes it back down again when it has fed through a little more.

[glenn bradley]

The board was 2' x 1.5". On the outfeed I tried supporting it upwards by hand, then tried a roller stand (something that would provide an even constant pressure), then tried placing my hand on top of the board to act as a second outfeed roller. No difference. The board looks like I had been on the jointer, where I pulled the guard back, placed the board down, then lifted it off, without sliding or feeding through so the head only made contact in one single spot.

Hmm, if the feed path isn't deviating, your cutter head is moving ;-) That is, to make the mark you describe the wood is moving up into the cutterhead or the cutterhead is moving down into the wood. I would think it is more likely the path of the material is deviating rather than that the head is not secure. If it were a damaged feed roller I would expect the behavior to occur randomly, not always at the end of the feed. Is the board always in motion? That is, is it getting hung up somewhere that a good waxing of the tables would cure? I'm just looking for the easy things first ;-)

[Jim Finn]

What you are describing is the only snipe I have seen. Just a mark across the board in one spot. The cure is to adjust the in-feed and out-feed tables. You can see how this fix works by lifting the loose end of the board as much as you can as it enters the planer and again as it exits. Then adjust your tables to do this lifting for you, every time, automatically.

[Anthony Whitesell]

Taking pictures of the mark is not as easy as one would think.

Hopefully you can see it is just a line across the board and the end of the board has not been shaved off.

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[Jim Finn]

Yes that is the snipe I was referring to. Try lifting the end of the board and I bet it will disappear.

[Tom Giacomo]

Sounds like board bounce, either board dropped down or board bounced.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Yes that is the snipe I was referring to. Try lifting the end of the board and I bet it will disappear.
Yeah - I think Jim is correct here, or maybe Ethan is, or both. But - take care of the "Jim issue" first - easiest to address, and my 50 cents is on that one.

Feed the stick, with slight upward pressure on it after the front feed roll engages. Keep it that way until it exits the back side, let the pressure off the stick in a smooth transition, go around to the back, and again, keep upward pressure on the stick - more than slight, but not gorilla-level.

I'm betting it will go away. Many guys that have infeed and outfeed tables on their planes will adjust them for a slight upward cant as an alternative to hand pressure.

If this doesn't solve it, you need to open that baby up and adjust everything - the feed/drive rollers, the idler rollers in the bottom table [if there are any? don't know that particular gear], the chipbreaker.

[Anthony Whitesell]

So I stripped and waxed the tables and reset them. I noticed the leading edge of the left side of the outfeed table did not line up with the edge of the table under the cutterhead. I now have the infeed table at flat, and the outfeed table with a penny-thick rise. With all that done, I ran a board, 11" wide, 22" long. Now I have, what I would call, "reverse" snipe. The board gets thicker on the trailing edge instead of thinner. The reverse snipe is full width and goes all the way to the edge of the board. As you recall, the "defect" before did not go all the way to the end, was only in one 1/4" wide band all the way across the board.

[lowell holmes]

I had a 12 1/2" Delta planer for about 10 years. I eliminated snipe by lifting up a bit on the trailing end of the board when pushing the board into the planer. Then as the board was exiting the planer, I would lift up on the end of the board.

I'm sure you can accomplish this by adjusting the tables as suggested in an earlier response.

[peter gagliardi]

I don't know this machine, but if it has lower bed rolls, I bet your problem is there. Bed rolls too high wil create this as the board "drops off" the first lower bed roll and hits the table under the cutterhead. You only want .003-.005"of the roll height above the beds.

[lowell holmes]

The rolls on the 12 1/2" Delta planer I had were on top. Snipe was eliminated by lifting the ends of the board as it passed through.
You could eliminate the snipe by adjusting the folding tables to provide the lift.

My 12 1/2" Dewalt has no snipe. The instructions that came with the planer said if snipe develops, it can be eliminated by adjusting the folding tables.

[Joe Craven]

Anthony,

Could it be that your rollers (and specifically the roller on the outfeed side) might not be putting enough downward pressure on the stock, or that they're just a bit too high in relation to the cutterhead?

In your original scenario, as the trailing end of the stock clears the infeed roller toward the end of the cut, the stock is briefly/temporarily moving ("popping") up a bit and thereby causing the snipe stripe. It's basically a conversion of potential to kinetic energy that's been built by the shift of weight to the outfeed side. The previous suggestions to lift the board a bit at the end are essetially creating a fulcrum point between the bed and the outfeed roller, thereby keeping the trailing edge of the stock completely flat with the bed under the cutter as you finish the pass.

Now that you're applying constant upward pressure by making the penny-thick adjustment to the outfeed side (at an angle which, if the outfeed roller isn't doing its job, continually increases toward the trailing edge of the stock) you may (?somehow?) be sneaking the trailing edge of the stock under the cutterhead and causing the reverse snipe.

I can't quite put my brain on your latest scenario, but it just seems to me that - while applying upward pressure on the outfeed side - the only way to get a increase in thickness at the end of the cut is if that outfeed roller isn't holding the stock down tight enough to keep it completely flat to the bed.

The only other possibility that comes to my mind is the type of wood itself, and whether you see the same behavior when passing something different through the planer. There's a very slight chance that there's something in the character of the wood that's contributing to this situation. Good luck my man.

[lowell holmes]

Anthony needs to try doing what I suggested. If it works, he is in business. If it does not work, he hasn't lost anything.

My recollection of the Delta planer I had was that rollers were fixed and rode up and down with the height adjustment.
I truly believe it is a matter of adjusting the feed tables.

[Lee Schierer]

If your 12-1/2" planer is one of the lunch box types, the in feed and out feed tables are aluminum and flex easily. The longer the board, the more noticeable the snipe will become. I made a plywood stand for mine with longer in feed and out feed tables. The top of the plywood is perfectly level with the bottom plate of the planer. You can see the out feed table in the photo below.
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This set up has all but totally eliminated any snipe I get.

[Anthony Whitesell]

I think the original problem was due to a sudden drop in height between the bed and the outfeed table. Although there was only a height difference on one side the stripe went all the way across. Can't get my head around that either. After I reset the tables to level, when I tipped the outfeed table up I was careful to make sure I didn't recreate the same height difference. As Lee mentioned below, it is hard to get your head around why the board gets thicker at the end rather than thinner.

[Lee Schierer]

As Lee mentioned below, it is hard to get your head around why the board gets thicker at the end rather than thinner.

If your boards are getting thicker on the ends, that is a different problem. I don't see how a lunch box type planer with a flat bed (no rollers) could produce a thick end. Thinning of the end happens when the end of the board leaves the incoming feed roller and the end raises up because the other end of the board is lower. Raising the out feed table and making sure the free end of the board doesn't drop will prevent snipe. If the snipe is occurring on the front end, then the in feed table needs raised and the tail end of the board needs to be raised.

[Anthony Whitesell]

While I wait for an epiphany (or someone to have one), I just turned the board around and ran it through backwards. It was definitely thicker on the trailing edge. Once turned around the cutterhead only cut for a second or two and then was quiet for the rest of the length of the board. This project is just about wrapped up. I will loosen and mis-adjust everything on the planer and to be sure I start from scratch to verify it is not something I'm inherently doing wrong.

Since the planer is attached to a flip-top cart. I don't (can't) lift it to move it. I was thinking of making some fixed feed tables, but they would be restricted to the size of the flip-top of the cart, about 3" longer than the OEM folding tables. Building new tables would be down the list a ways. So hopefully I can resolve this with what I have. It worked before, perfectly well.

[lowell holmes]

I can't say what his tables are made of, but the tables on my Delta 22-540 were stainless steel. The tables on my Dewalt 734 are also heavy stainless steel. There was no flexing of the tables on either planer. On the Delta , I had to lock the cutter head in place before running the board through. If I didn't the thickness would vary. My planer was the same as the one Lee has.

At this point, I don't have a clue as to why Anthony is having issues with his setup. I would check and see if the cutters are moving up during the cut. That would certainly create the problem. On that planer, you have to lock the cutters in place before running.

I have made entrance doors out of straight grain fir and door jambs out of qswo. I ran 96" long boards through both planers and never had any issues. My planer is mounted on a small square wooden table. I set up in the middle of the shop and feed the boards in, lifting on the back of the board, and mid cut, I move to the outfeed side and lift up on the other end as the board comes out. I really don't have any problems.

[Anthony Whitesell]

At this point, I don't have a clue as to why Anthony is having issues with his setup. I would check and see if the cutters are moving up during the cut. That would certainly create the problem. On that planer, you have to lock the cutters in place before running.

How would you check while running? I put the dial indicator (http://www.harborfreight.com/1-inch-travel-machinists-dial-indicator-623.html) that I use for TS blade alignment and for setting blade and bit heights on a rig touching the top of the dust hood on the out feed. I saw vibration in the measurements, but they centered around the original number. The wixey height gauge isn't changing either during the run either, but it only reads in 0.005" increments. For the short amount of time it should read high, it may not register the change in value.

What I'm most afraid of is that something is breaking. I have been using the headlock during this time, but I have not had to in the past. I didn't used to have any issues, with or without the head locked.

[Kent A Bathurst]

What I'm most afraid of is that something is breaking. I have been using the headlock during this time, but I have not had to in the past. I didn't used to have any issues, with or without the head locked.

Wait a second, Anthony -

Are you saying it works fine when you use the headlock? And the problem only occurs when you do not use the headlock?

If so, I didn't glean that important tidbit out of the earlier conversation.

[glenn bradley]

Wait a second, Anthony -

Are you saying it works fine when you use the headlock? And the problem only occurs when you do not use the headlock?

If so, I didn't glean that important tidbit out of the earlier conversation.

I think we just found the basis of the problem. If he carriage isn't locked it is only as good as the fit on the elevation screws. These will ease over time to a point beyond my tolerance for a planer. This could also account for the thicker dimension at the end as the wood moving up into the cutterhead (snipe) would also apply pressure to the feed roller as both are mounted in the carriage.

You could position a board at the outfeed of the planer so that it is under the cutterhead and outfeed roller but NOT under the infeed roller. Lower the head to a position it might be in for planing and then apply upward and downward pressure on the board while watching the head. Is there movement?

[lowell holmes]

Anthony,
This is reaching. I would prepare two sticks for a test. I would set the thickness to 1" .

I would run the first stick in a ways( 1"?) and unplug the planer, then extract the stick.

I would then run the other stick all the way through. Then check the thickness of both sticks and see if they are different.

I'm thinking ends should be the same.

Another scenario is to run a 12" stick all the way through with the lock on and see if the two ends are the same. If they are not, the head is moving.

I installed a Wixey on my planer, but I haven't figured out how to use it. Sometimes, I'm a bit dense- it seems to get worse each year.:)

[Anthony Whitesell]

Wait a second, Anthony -

Are you saying it works fine when you use the headlock? And the problem only occurs when you do not use the headlock?

If so, I didn't glean that important tidbit out of the earlier conversation.

No. What I said was in years past I have not had to use the head lock. The planer worked fine with and without the headlock. All the time troubleshooting recently I have been using the headlock, but even if I don't it does not seem to matter.


I think we just found the basis of the problem. If the carriage isn't locked it is only as good as the fit on the elevation screws. These will ease over time to a point beyond my tolerance for a planer. This could also account for the thicker dimension at the end as the wood moving up into the cutterhead (snipe) would also apply pressure to the feed roller as both are mounted in the carriage.

You could position a board at the outfeed of the planer so that it is under the cutterhead and outfeed roller but NOT under the infeed roller. Lower the head to a position it might be in for planing and then apply upward and downward pressure on the board while watching the head. Is there movement?

Glenn, that was an assumption from an incorrect read. It does not matter whether or not the lock is used, but I have been making an effort use it in order to eliminate a variable.

[Anthony Whitesell]

Anthony,
This is reaching. I would prepare two sticks for a test. I would set the thickness to 1" .

I would run the first stick in a ways( 1"?) and unplug the planer, then extract the stick.

I would then run the other stick all the way through. Then check the thickness of both sticks and see if they are different.

I'm thinking ends should be the same.

That would be an interesting test. I will try that tonight, only the board will probably be 5/8" and 15" long (14" minimum).


Another scenario is to run a 12" stick all the way through with the lock on and see if the two ends are the same. If they are not, the head is moving.

I have tried it with the lock on and off. Doesn't matter. That's what is frightening me. These lunch box planers do not look too adjustable to me. I would like a floor (non-portable) planer, but am not ready for the expense yet. (plus I don't need a 15+ inch wide planer)

[Jim Finn]

Have you tried what many of us have suggested? Lifting the loose end of the board. Mabe I missed you saying that you did try that.

[Anthony Whitesell]

Have you tried what many of us have suggested? Lifting the loose end of the board. Mabe I missed you saying that you did try that.

Yes, I have tried everything suggest but one item (Lowell's recent idea to run a board all the way through and a second board halfway to judge the amount of material being removed). I have tried both lifting the front edge of board and holding down the board as it leaves the head. I feel holding the trailing edge down provides a more constant pressure and for the 18-30" boards I'm dealing with, there is not an overly high amount of pressure. I find when lifting the front edge it is difficult to maintain a constant upwards pressure and angle. The goal is to prevent the trailing edge from rising into the cutterhead, so both methods should work equally well. Neither have showed any difference or effect.

[lowell holmes]

I have no reason to push the machine, but I can tell you the Dewalt 734 is stiffer and smoother to operate than my Delta. I loved my Delta, but it came unglued and I had to replace it. The 734 has three cutter heads instead of two.

Aftermarket blades are available from Infinity that are thicker and stiffer than the factory blades.

If you mount it on its own stand, it is like a stationary machine. I cut the styrofoam to where I can put it over the machine. I place two towels over the machine, then the styrofoam that came with it. I put the cardboard box it came in over all that. It keeps the machine clean, no rust, ready to go. I kept my Delta like that and it lasted for over 10 years.

The stand is a wooden one I made.

[Kent A Bathurst]

.....that was an assumption from an incorrect read. It does not matter whether or not the lock is used, but I have been making an effort use it in order to eliminate a variable.


OK - that's good to know. I didn't draw any conclusions whatsoever - I was confused by the wording, so I asked for clarification.

But it raises in my mind a followup - have you made a precise measurement of the head location before you run a board, and compare it to the same measurement after the board is run? Never thought of that possibility before - maybe the headlock is not doing a good job?

[Lee Schierer]

I can't say what his tables are made of, but the tables on my Delta 22-540 were stainless steel.

The tables on my 22-560 are definitely aluminum. Only the slide plate under the cutter head is stainless.

[Lee Schierer]

Wait a second, Anthony -

Are you saying it works fine when you use the headlock? And the problem only occurs when you do not use the headlock?

If so, I didn't glean that important tidbit out of the earlier conversation.

I think he said just the opposite. The problem occurs when using the headlock, it didn't used to make any difference.

[Lee Schierer]

OK - that's good to know. I didn't draw any conclusions whatsoever - I was confused by the wording, so I asked for clarification.

But it raises in my mind a followup - have you made a precise measurement of the head location before you run a board, and compare it to the same measurement after the board is run? Never thought of that possibility before - maybe the headlock is not doing a good job?

Why would the headlock decide to let the head move in the last few inches of the board?

[Anthony Whitesell]

The tables on my 22-560 are definitely aluminum. Only the slide plate under the cutter head is stainless.

I believe mine are the same. Stainless steel bed and black anodized aluminum feed tables.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Why would the headlock decide to let the head move in the last few inches of the board?

Beats me. If everything is aligned correctly, and a bit of lift is applied on infeed and outfeed, but the problem still exists, then something odd is occurring. Just asked the question, Lee.

I read carefully the post about the headlock, and the semantics were confusing, so I asked the question you answered above - which had already been dealt with earlier. You must have missed that exchange - or likely just hit reply to me before you followed the thread further.

Just asking questions questions in search of some insight. I'll let you take it from here.

[Anthony Whitesell]

I will take any suggestion. Anything to check, anything to change. I have run out of ideas.

[Jim Finn]

In my experience holding the board end down is never a good idea. Hold up on the board after entering and especially as the board exits. Pull up-wards as much as you can without lifting the planer. This is not a solution it is a test to see if adjusting the in-feed and out-feed tables UPWARD will help the snipe problem. This test is what taught me to adjust the tables upward until the snipe disappeared.

[glenn bradley]

Glenn, that was an assumption from an incorrect read. It does not matter whether or not the lock is used, but I have been making an effort use it in order to eliminate a variable.

Darn! I thought we were onto something. Sorry about that.

[lowell holmes]

The tables on my 22-560 are definitely aluminum. Only the slide plate under the cutter head is stainless.

I mis-spoke when I said the tables on the Delta were stainless steel, they were in fact black and probably aluminum. They were stiff and had no detectable flexing.
The planer had a carriage lock that had to be locked holding the cutters stationary preventing snipe.