Resaw King or Woodmaster CT ?

[dirk martin]

Just watched a rather new video on You Tube (5 part series) of a guy not too happy with his Resaw King bandsaw blade.
My Woodmaster CT is getting dull on my 24" Grizzly, so I'm shopping again (I also need the same on my Minimax 24" bandsaw).

I know the RK is resharpenable....and that has large appeal to me.

I resaw hardwoods every day, but can't decide from the Woodmaster CT and trying the RK.
In the long run, the RK comes out cheaper when you figure it'll get 4 resharpens out of it.

RK is coming in around $304. The Woodmaster CT, about $205, and the Lenox Trimaster about $274.

Can someone help me decide?

[Mike Heidrick]

I like the RK on my MM20. Its on there right now.

[Andrew Hughes]

Hi Dirk, I use the woodmaster Ct , I have used the resaw King and it's only slightly better cut when I got a good one.Anyways Daily saw service in south gate will sharpen both types of blade.i think it was about 75 bucks to sharpen a 176inch blade with shipping,although I am here on the west coast with them.Aj

[David Kumm]

I did not think the CT could be resharpened or the RK could get four. The Trimaster has more carbide so it should be similar to the RK that way. Takes a good sharpener to keep from creating a weakness near the gullet that will eventually break the band. I've always leaned towards the thicker Lenox band if the saw could tension it adequately and the RK for a saw of marginal strength. Dave

PS I also use the CT on my 116 that resaws 19" at a blade speed of 6750 fpm to keep fewer teeth in the cut. 217 gets the 2-3 vari tooth due to less resaw height. Dave

[dirk martin]

Hi Dirk, I use the woodmaster Ct , I have used the resaw King and it's only slightly better cut when I got a good one.Anyways Daily saw service in south gate will sharpen both types of blade.i think it was about 75 bucks to sharpen a 176inch blade with shipping,although I am here on the west coast with them.Aj

Just so I'm clear...are you saying the CT can be resharpened? I've got 3 used ones....dull....and I've never heard that they can be resharpened.
Can you confirm?

[Andrew Hughes]

Oh Ya Dirk,Daily saw sevive they also will resharpen the resaw king.Got a bandsaw wheel needs new tires they do a great job.Aj

[David Ragan]

I am not an expert resawer But in spite of a rk breaking on me i bought another. Have only used woodslicr in comparison. I prefer the rk

[dirk martin]

I tried the Woodslicer too.
Lasted about 3 hours, and was dull.
Certainly not a blade for anyone that resaws more than rarely...and soft woods at that.

[Erik Loza]

Never used the RK but if a carbide is what you need, you can't go wrong with the Woodmaster CT.

That being said, carbides are not a magic bullet. I have seen a number of cases where the owner thought their machine could properly tension a 1.0" carbide blade and then they had all sorts of issues when it really was that their particular saw couldn't get the blade into the tension range it wanted. The other thing I see guys do is try to use the carbide for everything, whuch it really wasn't designed to do. In fact, for all-purpose use, a simple skip-tooth blade is often better. But you can't go wrong with the Woodmaster CT if a carbide is indeed what you need.

Erik Loza
Minimax

[ed vitanovec]

I have been very happy with my Laguna Resaw King blades.

[dirk martin]

Never used the RK but if a carbide is what you need, you can't go wrong with the Woodmaster CT.

That being said, carbides are not a magic bullet. I have seen a number of cases where the owner thought their machine could properly tension a 1.0" carbide blade and then they had all sorts of issues when it really was that their particular saw couldn't get the blade into the tension range it wanted. The other thing I see guys do is try to use the carbide for everything, whuch it really wasn't designed to do. In fact, for all-purpose use, a simple skip-tooth blade is often better. But you can't go wrong with the Woodmaster CT if a carbide is indeed what you need.

Erik Loza
Minimax


Erik, I've been using the Woodmaster CT, on both my 24" saws.
They last about 3 months for me.
Why would I buy the CT, for $200 which is not resharpenable, when I can buy the Resaw King for $300, and sharpen it 4 or 5 times for $45?

[Keith Hankins]

Can only speak to the resaw king. Love it and if you call and say your a creek'r you get a big discount. Nuff said.

[David Kumm]

if I resawed as much as you, I'd buy both the RK and Trimaster, resharpen both and decide what works for the rest of time. Dave

[dirk martin]

Sounds wise, David.
I had a Trimaster years, and years ago.....and I just don't recall how it performed.
I've got a call into Laguna, and I'll see what kinda deal they can offer me for 2 RK's.

Not sure why Erik said I "can't go wrong" with the CT....since it seems RK is a no-brainer over the CT, now that I look into it (or maybe the Trimaster).

[Erik Loza]

Erik, I've been using the Woodmaster CT, on both my 24" saws.
They last about 3 months for me.
Why would I buy the CT, for $200 which is not resharpenable, when I can buy the Resaw King for $300, and sharpen it 4 or 5 times for $45?

Dirk, I have no idea. I can tell you that we have had Lenox carbides that lasted for YEARS. But on the other hand, I have killed near-new carbides with user error. I am no authority but it seems to me that if an RK blade could be sharpened, then so could a Woodmaster CT or a Tri-master. A blade with brazed-on teeth is a blade with brazed-on teeth, right? But I've never needed to, so couldn't say for sure. If someone offered me an RK for free, I would gladly take it and try it out. But Woodmaster CT's are very competitively priced for what you get and I have personally never needed a "better' option. There could be a "better" option for some folks but the Woodmaster CT and Tri-master have never dissatisfied me. That's perhaps what I was trying to say. And I have no professional relationship with Lenox, just a user like everyone else.

Erik Loza
Minimax

[dirk martin]

I just got off the phone with Lenox. Their sales force said the Trimaster could not be resharpened. Shocked, I then spoke to their tech support dept, and they too confirmed it could not be resharpened "properly". They said some will try, but that it shouldn't be trusted. If Lenox says "no", then "no" it is.

That clearly makes the RK the smarter choice, ....by far.

[Erik Loza]

I just got off the phone with Lenox. Their sales force said the Trimaster could not be resharpened. Shocked, I then spoke to their tech support dept, and they too confirmed it could not be resharpened "properly". They said some will try, but that it shouldn't be trusted. If Lenox says "no", then "no" it is.

That clearly makes the RK the smarter choice, ....by far.

I'm going to float this out there as food for thought and again, I am neither a blade expert nor do I sell blades, so it doesn't matter to me who a person buys blades from.

First, Lenox is probably saying what they say because it's the company line. Their blades are pretty much the benchmark for quality and I'm sure that from a legal as well as sales standpoint, they will probably tell you to buy a new blade because that's the only way they feel confident in delivering on their performance claims and also, well, they want you to buy more of their blades. I suspect their blades could be sharpened just like any other bandsaw blade that has brazed-on teeth but also, I suspect that no matter which blade it is, if you resharpen one say 3-4 times, I cannot believe that the life and quality is the same for each sharpening. Those teeth are tiny and have not a lot of meat on them and I wonder how much you lose during each re-grinding? So, my question is, "Sure, such-and-such blade could be re-sharpened but in doing so, is that any guarantee that you are getting the same quality and lifespan each time?". That seems like the real question to me.

Next, what does is the total cost of ownership even with re-sharpening? If it's $45 each time you need that and it can be done 3-4 times per blade, your $300 RK just turned into a $480 blade. And that's not factoring in lost time, only dollars. By comparison, I just went onto Spectrum Supply's page and a 1.0" Woodmaster CT for the MM24 is about $156. So, you could actually get three BRAND NEW Woodmaster CT's for the price of one RK + resharpening 4X.

Again, buy whatever you like but from a dollars and cents standpoint, where is the real value?

Erik Loza
Minimax

[David Kumm]

Give the RK a try and see how the sharpening works. I've heard of a few who get a Trimaster sharpened once as well as the RK. I've also read a bunch of posts about bands breaking after resharpening. Stress cracks develop along the gullet. It would be good to hear an opinion as to the number of times and quality of cut. Dave

[dirk martin]

I just ran the numbers on my end, from Spectrum.

Lenox CT $146.17 x 5 = $730
Laguna RK = $316 + ($45 x 4) = $496

That's a significant savings with the RK....I feel. I ran these numbers based on resharpening 4 times. Laguna says they can do 4 or 5.
We are running CT's on our 2 saws right now, so when the RK's come in, I'll put them on, and hang the CT's up, to be brought back into use when the RK's are out being sharpened.

[dirk martin]

Just got off the phone with Laguna.
Since I'm buying 2 Resaw Kings, they gave me the 2nd, at 1/2 off.
That really makes going with the RK, over the Lenox, a no brainer (assuming all goes well with resharpening).
Laguna told me they have a new CNC in place now, too, so their resharpening is more accurate than ever, and their turn-around time is better.

I'll report back here with more info after we load them up, and make some sawdust.

Lenox CT on two saws = $146.17 x 10 (I go thru about 5 per year on each saw) = $1,461.70
Laguna RK on two saws = $316 + $158 (1/2 off) + (8 x $45) = $834

[Peter Aeschliman]

Very cool, and thanks for "showing your work" on the math. Reminds me of high school!

[dirk martin]

We loaded up the two Resaw Kings today. One on a MM24, and one on Grizzly's 24" bandsaw.
First impression is the noticeably thinner blade.
Both are cutting nice and straight....with less kerf, which is nice.

I'll try and report back, after our first resharpening.

[ian maybury]

'RK is coming in around $304. The Woodmaster CT, about $205, and the Lenox Trimaster about $274.' I've not looked recently, but that seems very expensive for a Woodmaster CT...

[dirk martin]

See post #20.

[ian maybury]

Missed that...

[dirk martin]

Ok, well, we've been running the two Resaw Kings for a bit now.
The one on the Minimax has gotten dull, so I sent it out for resharpening. It's been at least 10 days, so I'm expecting it back any time now.

The other Resaw King is on our 24" Grizzly bandsaw. We don't resaw as much on that machine, so it's still sharp.
Last week I resawed a board just fine, then stepped over to grab another board. While my back was turned away from the saw, "BANG"!!
The darn blade broke. Unreal. For no known reason.
Took it off, and looked closely, and it DID NOT break at the weld.
However as I looked around the band, I could see several stress fractures. So that blade was due to break at one, of many places, at any time.

Strange thing is, we untension that blade after every use, because it's so easy to untension blades with the Grizzly.
The blades on the Minimax, we leave at full tension, all the time.

So, having a Resaw King blade bust, well ahead of it's time, is a major financial kink.
I haven't called Laguna yet. I'm not sure what their reply will be.

[David Kumm]

Dirk, where do the stress cracks occur? I've heard that sharpening carbide blades can cause stress at the gullets and lead to failure. I've always questioned whether blades could really be resharpened more than once if that. What is your take? Dave

[Scott T Smith]

Dirk, I use a 30 hp 16" horizontal resaw to saw veneer from boards. I started off with the Trimasters, and then based upon advice from another member on SMC I tried RK's. My first experiences with the RK's was horrible! Poor accuracy, large kerf marks - I was stunned to say the least. After expressing my dissatisfaction to Laguna, they asked me to return the bands for them to sharpen. They would return them, and if I still didn't like them they would refund my entire purchase amount (close to a grand).

Since I had nothing to lose I agreed, and I am glad that I did! The resharpend bands cut like a dream! With Trimasters, I had to sand close to .030 per side to remove the kerf marks. With the RK's, less than half that and usually less than .010. I don't know how many thousands of linear feet that I have cut with the RK's, but it's equal to or better than the Trimasters. They are a thinner kerf than the TM's and my veneer yield per board increased 20% when I switched over to them.

Laguna's sales rep told me that there had been a bad batch of coil stock delivered to the US that a lot of the bands had been made from (improperly sharpened and set by the manufacturer), and that was the root cause of my problem. I think that this may have been the root cause of others who complained about the RK's.

Hands down I think that the RK's are an excellent band to use for resawing. If you try them and are not satisfied, talk to Laguna about resharpening them.

Hope this helps.

Scott

[dirk martin]

Dirk, where do the stress cracks occur? I've heard that sharpening carbide blades can cause stress at the gullets and lead to failure. I've always questioned whether blades could really be resharpened more than once if that. What is your take? Dave


You misunderstood.
This is a new blade. We bought it with the intent of getting several resharpenings out of it. Laguna states such.
It has never been resharpened.

[dirk martin]

Scott, I'll reach out to Laguna Monday, and see what they say.

[David Kumm]

Dirk, I was wondering if the original sharpening could have caused the stress cracks. The band is thin and sharpening the carbide is a finesse job that gets more difficult with each try. Dave

[peter gagliardi]

That is too bad about the Woodmaster blades. I have never been a fan in any form of the Lenox product in general. Many think they make a great product, and they are happy with it. I don't share that opinion.
I have been using, and so far have no reason to change, the Timberwolf VCT blades for years. They re sharpen at least once I believe.
They are not cheap, but cut well.
I don't know about bandsaw blades, but when I spoke with Joe at W. D. Quinn Saw , he told me on circular blades at least that they "scope" the blades and in most instances only have remove a few MICRONS to get to sharp. That would all but eliminate gullet grinding, or back of tooth grinding that is rampant in the circular sharpening world.
I know, because I have been through dozens of sharpening companies, with hundreds if not in the thousands of blades sharpened.
I don't know if the bandsaw companies have invested in this level of precision equipment though. My bet is no, as most of their product line is low end/low cost consumable type product.
But for shops that need or want the level of performance the carbide provides, and can afford the initial up charge for a premium product I would hope we are getting there.
Oh, for the record, I run my blade on a 36" saw, so metal fatigue is much,much less than a 24" machine.

[dirk martin]

Peter, the Timberwolf VCT is a $265 blade on my saw....and you're saying I'll get one resharpening?
I'd rather spend the $300 on the Laguna Resaw King, and get 4 sharpenings.

Also, my understanding is that many of these blades recommend a 16" wheel or greater. Therefore I'm assuming a 24" saw is plenty large enough to eliminate metal fatigue.

[peter gagliardi]

Dirk, my comments were just offering another option, not trying to convert anyone.
Certainly, if those numbers are accurate, AND the blade can last thru the 4 sharpenings without fatigue and breakage? -because they will ALL fatigue - , then that makes the most sense from a cost perspective.
A 24" machine is still what I would consider on the small side, and then we don't know the rpms vs a bigger machine, or maybe I'm not remembering it. All leads to more and faster fatigue.
I would be surprised if you get all 4 sharpenings.
It appears you have found the best cost/value relationship with your choice IF they last.

[Jim Finn]

I re-saw with my band saw and I like "Supercut" 1/2" carbide blades. For my saw they are cheaper than Woodslicers and last a LOT longer.

[Joe Calhoon]

Peter, is Quinn resharpening your VCT blade or Suffolk? Only one resharpening? I am interested, we started with the low end steel Timberwolf blades and were never happy with those. Been using Woodmaster bi metal and medium happy with those. About ready to pull the trigger on a Woodmaster carbide for the 36" saw for a large knotty white oak job coming but might rethink that. It is about how many resharpens you can get.

Jim, I put a Woodmaster carbide in the little 14" saw and it only lasted for less than a year before it broke. I assume because of the small diameter. I have been running the Supercut impregnated blades since and very happy with those for the price. No resawing on that saw but some thick 3" or so pattern cutting. They seem to go a year and get dull before breaking. For the cost it has been good in that saw. What type saw are you using those on? I did not think about trying those in the 36" saw but could be another choice.

Joe

[peter gagliardi]

Joe, I sent them to Suffolk, it was before I knew of, or had any dealings with Quinn Saw. Suffolk I think said 1 re sharp only? Don't remember for sure now. I also think it was at about 1/2 the price of a new blade.
The more info I'm learning about here, the less attractive their pricing seems, even though I feel the product is excellent.
I don't honestly know if Quinn can or does re sharp bandsaw blades, or even carbide bandsaw blades?
I just know that on circular, their sharpening is the best I've experienced. They are conscientious about how much or little needs to be taken off.
Some past services I would get 3 sharpenings on a new Euro tooth carbide blade! That was far from acceptable!
I might be inclined myself to see about another brand of carbide blade due to overall end cost, though I am more than a little leery of cut quality.

[dirk martin]

....
I would be surprised if you get all 4 sharpenings.
It appears you have found the best cost/value relationship with your choice IF they last.


Frankly, I'd be very surprised if I DID NOT get at least 4 sharpenings, since that's what Laguna advertises.

[dirk martin]

I re-saw with my band saw and I like "Supercut" 1/2" carbide blades. For my saw they are cheaper than Woodslicers and last a LOT longer.


Yeah, my Woodslicers dulled in a single day.

[Jeff Duncan]

I have a couple of the RSK blades and while they do last quite a while, I've now switched to Lenox BiMetal blades. The RSK's were just too slow for my liking. They leave a beautiful finish, but I need to re-saw quickly and then I send them through the wide belt after, so clean cuts were not the priority. The blades I'm using now cut faster and actually lasted quite a while….plus I think they were only like $60 or so. It's now getting to the point where It'll need to be sharpened soon and I'm going to make an attempt at doing it myself. Figure if re-sharpening works I'll be saving myself a bunch of money on blades;)

good luck,
JeffD

[Jim Finn]

[QUOTE=

Jim, I put a Woodmaster carbide in the little 14" saw and it only lasted for less than a year before it broke. I assume because of the small diameter. I have been running the Supercut impregnated blades since and very happy with those for the price. No resawing on that saw but some thick 3" or so pattern cutting. They seem to go a year and get dull before breaking. For the cost it has been good in that saw. What type saw are you using those on? I did not think about trying those in the 36" saw but could be another choice.

Joe[/QUOTE]
A year!? I would never expect a blade to last that long re-sawing. I have a 14" Grizzly GO555 with a one horse power motor. The 1/2"carbide blade cost me about $25 each. ( I buy five at a time). I resaw about 800 board feet a year of six inch maple and cedar, with some oak and walnut also. I use about 2-3 of these blades a year.

[dirk martin]

Jim, note that Joe didn't state how much resawing he does.
When I bought my Minimax 24" saw new, I also bought a Lenox Trimaster...and it lasted me 4 years, resawing (note that I'm also not qualifying how much resawing I did). Point is, duration that a blade is on the saw means nothing, if it's not qualified with how much work it's doing.

Jim, what carbide blade are you buying for only $25? Although I see now, you said it's only on a 14" saw....

Back to the thread....

I haven't contacted Laguna yet. Neighbor is cutting down 4 trees today, and I get all the wood....so I'll be busy....

[Joe Calhoon]

I was discussing 2 saws and several blades in my post. After I read it again it is pretty confusing...
The 14" Delta we do not use for resaw work. Just general shop curve work that goes in spurts. With the 14" we used the normal steel blades for a long time but they do not last long in hard woods. So for the 14" I sprung for a carbide Lenox Trimaster or Woodmaster for about $100+ if I remember. It cut great but the weld broke after about 6 months while still sharp. They rewelded the joint but broke again in a different place shortly after. I have been told by several people these just dont work on the small saws.
Eagle Tool then recommended the Super Cut blade for this saw. It is carbide impregnated, not tipped. I am real happy with this one in the 14" saw. It goes a long time without any breakage.

My 36" saw is what we use for resaw and what I was thinking about springing for a carbide blade. At 243" it gets spendy and want to make sure I can get some resharpens. We have been using a Lenox Woodmaster Bi metal in that one. About 2.5 teeth per inch. Cuts rough but accurate. We usually cut or door skins 6mm and plane them to 3.5mm. I figure we get 200 to 300 skins out of that blade before it dulls. Have only broke one of those and it was because we ran it too long.
I may stick with that. I watched Wadkin Jack's video of resharpening with a die grinder and tried that yesterday. Took 20 minutes to sharpen. Figure 1/2 hour or so with setup. It is actually cutting better than new. I would not want to try that with a blade with many teeth as it is pretty tedious. Those blades run 40 or 50$ so a half hour spent is about break even with shop rate time.

Still want to hear more carbide resharpening experences.
Joe

[Chris Padilla]

I'm not a pro nor do a ton of resawing on my MM20 but the Lenox Diemaster II bimetal blades (6 tpi, hook style blade) cut very nicely for the money. I've never been a fan of the Woodmaster CT but I do love my Trimaster. I've never tried a RK but just have to pick one up one of these days and see what the fuss is all about. :)

[dirk martin]

Got our Resaw King back from Laguna today, that we run on our 24" Minimax.
This was its first resharpening.
I'll load it up, and let everyone know how it cuts.

I called Laguna about the Resaw King that broke, on our Grizzly.
Nick, in customer service, didn't bat an eye, and said he'd send a new one out as a replacement.
You can't get better customer service than that.
He then gave me an RMA for returning the broken one, so they can inspect it.

So far, my experience with Laguna and their Resaw Kings has been nothing but excellent.

[dirk martin]

After making several cuts with the newly sharpened Resaw King, I can certainly say that the cut faces are smoother than when the blade was brand new.
Well done, Laguna.