Ken Fitzgerald
01-31-2015, 3:29 PM
Atop the each of the forums at SMC is an announcement thread titled "Read me first". This thread details certain topics including rant threads. Here's a quote"
Before You Rant Read This December 20th, 2010
"It is the intent of SMC to permit the airing of concerns regarding the suitability of a particular product, or the quality or sufficiency of customer service provided by a vendor in any particular instance provided there is not a breach of contract component involved.
However, these threads often deteriorate into a "piling on" and develop a very negative tone. That doesn't assist other viewers in assessing the overall advisability of whether to buy this particular product, nor to assess the overall customer service provided by that manufacturer/vendor.
In order to be fair to the many vendors that provide woodworking products, the following policies will be in force:
The original poster must have first contacted the manufacturer/vendor and have attempted a solution PRIOR to posting the thread.
The original poster should provide factual details of the problem, and details of efforts that have been made with the manufacturer/vendor to rectify the problem.
Subsequent posts must be limited to suggestions to the original poster to assist in rectifying the problem - not to pile on because you had similar problems.
SMC is a woodworking forum. The intended purpose is to provide a community in which useful information may be shared among the members. Threads that do not achieve that purpose will be locked, or removed if necessary." SawMill Creek is not a Court of Law and we are not in a position to judge a breach of contract case here, therefore SawMill Creek will not become a stage or a courtroom for a legal dispute between two or more parties, it just isn't our mission.
I changed the color of the quote so it would stand out from the rest of this post.
There are reasons behind these rules.
When you read a thread, you can tell which person is spouting an emotional, irrational, often an overreaction to a problem. Emotional rants without any factual supporting data are worthless to any prospective buyer.
Requiring an OP to first contact a company to give them an opportunity to resolve an issue is just common courtesy. No company who manufactures and sells a product is above having a failure or problem in a newly delivered product. While there are those who would suggest that berating a company and it's product got them great satisfaction and relief, I would suggest those are the minority results. Managers don't have the time nor the desire to handle every customer complaint. As both a former manager and field engineer for 34 years for 2 large global corporations I can tell you, my manager gave me a set of operational boundaries that exceeded those detailed in a sales or service contract. When a customer brought an issue to me for resolution, if they approached it in a calm, concerned manner, they often found out the extended boundaries I was given. At times I would go to my manager and the customer found out what his or hers even larger boundaries were. If, however, they were in your face, emotionally ranting, publicly embarrassing in their expression of dissatisfaction, they often found the precise limited boundaries as detailed in the sales or service contract.
So much of what we see concerning tools is subjective. With respect to a specific tool, what may be important to me is of no importance to you. That is fine. A minor defect in a tool that may be extremely frustrating to you, may be a non-issue with me. It's subjective....it's a matter of personal opinion and/or taste.
Keith Outten has had to submit records of specific threads and/posts after being ordered to by a court in at least one case or maybe 2 cases, IIRC. You can be held responsible for what you say online. In fact, a few years ago, a fellow Creeker who is a lawyer posted a link to a published result in a court case where a website was held responsible for allowing untrue misinformation to be posted and remain on a website. The jest of the courts finding was if a site was not moderated, it couldn't be held responsible but if it was moderated it had the responsibility to remove misinformation that could harm a company. The reason I frequent SMC is because of the moderation maintaining a reasonable code of conduct here for members to enjoy. There are other websites out there that are not moderated for those who can't or don't wish to abide the TOSs of SMC as they agreed when they registered.
And of course, lastly, contrary to what some want to believe or accuse, the Moderators get nothing from any manufacturers. We are trying to be fair to consumers and manufacturers/retailers.
Before You Rant Read This December 20th, 2010
"It is the intent of SMC to permit the airing of concerns regarding the suitability of a particular product, or the quality or sufficiency of customer service provided by a vendor in any particular instance provided there is not a breach of contract component involved.
However, these threads often deteriorate into a "piling on" and develop a very negative tone. That doesn't assist other viewers in assessing the overall advisability of whether to buy this particular product, nor to assess the overall customer service provided by that manufacturer/vendor.
In order to be fair to the many vendors that provide woodworking products, the following policies will be in force:
The original poster must have first contacted the manufacturer/vendor and have attempted a solution PRIOR to posting the thread.
The original poster should provide factual details of the problem, and details of efforts that have been made with the manufacturer/vendor to rectify the problem.
Subsequent posts must be limited to suggestions to the original poster to assist in rectifying the problem - not to pile on because you had similar problems.
SMC is a woodworking forum. The intended purpose is to provide a community in which useful information may be shared among the members. Threads that do not achieve that purpose will be locked, or removed if necessary." SawMill Creek is not a Court of Law and we are not in a position to judge a breach of contract case here, therefore SawMill Creek will not become a stage or a courtroom for a legal dispute between two or more parties, it just isn't our mission.
I changed the color of the quote so it would stand out from the rest of this post.
There are reasons behind these rules.
When you read a thread, you can tell which person is spouting an emotional, irrational, often an overreaction to a problem. Emotional rants without any factual supporting data are worthless to any prospective buyer.
Requiring an OP to first contact a company to give them an opportunity to resolve an issue is just common courtesy. No company who manufactures and sells a product is above having a failure or problem in a newly delivered product. While there are those who would suggest that berating a company and it's product got them great satisfaction and relief, I would suggest those are the minority results. Managers don't have the time nor the desire to handle every customer complaint. As both a former manager and field engineer for 34 years for 2 large global corporations I can tell you, my manager gave me a set of operational boundaries that exceeded those detailed in a sales or service contract. When a customer brought an issue to me for resolution, if they approached it in a calm, concerned manner, they often found out the extended boundaries I was given. At times I would go to my manager and the customer found out what his or hers even larger boundaries were. If, however, they were in your face, emotionally ranting, publicly embarrassing in their expression of dissatisfaction, they often found the precise limited boundaries as detailed in the sales or service contract.
So much of what we see concerning tools is subjective. With respect to a specific tool, what may be important to me is of no importance to you. That is fine. A minor defect in a tool that may be extremely frustrating to you, may be a non-issue with me. It's subjective....it's a matter of personal opinion and/or taste.
Keith Outten has had to submit records of specific threads and/posts after being ordered to by a court in at least one case or maybe 2 cases, IIRC. You can be held responsible for what you say online. In fact, a few years ago, a fellow Creeker who is a lawyer posted a link to a published result in a court case where a website was held responsible for allowing untrue misinformation to be posted and remain on a website. The jest of the courts finding was if a site was not moderated, it couldn't be held responsible but if it was moderated it had the responsibility to remove misinformation that could harm a company. The reason I frequent SMC is because of the moderation maintaining a reasonable code of conduct here for members to enjoy. There are other websites out there that are not moderated for those who can't or don't wish to abide the TOSs of SMC as they agreed when they registered.
And of course, lastly, contrary to what some want to believe or accuse, the Moderators get nothing from any manufacturers. We are trying to be fair to consumers and manufacturers/retailers.