Planes Worth Keeping?

[Derek Arita]

I'm just now getting into dovetails and thought I might as well get into planes at the same time. Looking at the prices of Veritas planes and the like makes my head spin. My other choice is to try to rehab some planes that my Father-in-law left me.http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h151/derekarita1/IMG_0796_zps53dd8146.jpg (http://s63.photobucket.com/user/derekarita1/media/IMG_0796_zps53dd8146.jpg.html)http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h151/derekarita1/IMG_0798_zpsce21bfe5.jpg (http://s63.photobucket.com/user/derekarita1/media/IMG_0798_zpsce21bfe5.jpg.html)http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h151/derekarita1/IMG_0799_zps84c6be48.jpg (http://s63.photobucket.com/user/derekarita1/media/IMG_0799_zps84c6be48.jpg.html)http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h151/derekarita1/IMG_0801_zpsfcd4d53e.jpg (http://s63.photobucket.com/user/derekarita1/media/IMG_0801_zpsfcd4d53e.jpg.html)
No cracks in the castings and they seem to be complete. He got them from his father.
Are they worth rehabbing? Is rehabbing a plane difficult?

[Marty Gulseth]

Thanks for the posting and photos, Derek. I'm in exactly the same situation, got four (or five?) from late FIL a few years ago. I got one cleaned up pretty well, but I wouldn't claim that it is tuned up by any means. Hope you don't mind if I read along, hopefully we can learn together.

Regards, Marty

[Jim Koepke]

Are they worth rehabbing? Is rehabbing a plane difficult?

Both are definitely worth rehabbing. The #4 looks to be about a type 12 or 13. The #5 looks to be a type 9.

In the Neanderthal wisdom/FAQs there are a few posts about rehabbing planes:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?103805-Neanderthal-wisdom-FAQs

Scroll down to section 9.

Here is another site with helpful information:

https://home.comcast.net/~rarebear/planes101/planes101.htm

If you are in my area I would be happy to help if you need any help, you too Marty

jtk

[Jude Kenny]

Q: Are they worth rehabbing?
A: Yes

Q:Is rehabbing a plane difficult?
A: No

I've rehabbed a few beater planes that others would have used as boat anchors. What you have just need a good cleaning.

I suggest soapy water to wash off the grime and dry right away. Swab the lot down with mineral spirits. Put some WD40 on the adjustment wheel. Sharpen the blade and see if you like it.

From there you could refinish the handle, shine up the sides a bit, check for flat etc. I redid an handle yesterday by gluing some wood to the top and reshaping it.

Check the FAQ. There are a lot of directions there.

A sharp blade seems to be the thing that separates a tool from a tool shaped object.

Even just sharpen each blade first and see how they work. That's what started me down the slope when I found a #7 plane in the shed.

[Roy Lindberry]

I'm just now getting into dovetails and thought I might as well get into planes at the same time. Looking at the prices of Veritas planes and the like makes my head spin. My other choice is to try to rehab some planes that my Father-in-law left me.http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h151/derekarita1/IMG_0796_zps53dd8146.jpg (http://s63.photobucket.com/user/derekarita1/media/IMG_0796_zps53dd8146.jpg.html)http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h151/derekarita1/IMG_0798_zpsce21bfe5.jpg (http://s63.photobucket.com/user/derekarita1/media/IMG_0798_zpsce21bfe5.jpg.html)http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h151/derekarita1/IMG_0799_zps84c6be48.jpg (http://s63.photobucket.com/user/derekarita1/media/IMG_0799_zps84c6be48.jpg.html)http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h151/derekarita1/IMG_0801_zpsfcd4d53e.jpg (http://s63.photobucket.com/user/derekarita1/media/IMG_0801_zpsfcd4d53e.jpg.html)
No cracks in the castings and they seem to be complete. He got them from his father.
Are they worth rehabbing? Is rehabbing a plane difficult?

They look to be worth it to me, and no, it is not difficult. The bent lateral adjuster might be a pain. The broken tote is really cosmetic, unless it chafes your hand, which can probably be resolved with some sandpaper. Most planes don't require a ton of work to rehab into serviceable condition: much of it is cosmetic. I usually fettle as little as possible. These are the steps I follow on every plane:

1. I clean off the rust, and old wood dust/shavings. (Just a quick once over with a wire wheel, wire brush, and maybe a few swipes on the stone).
2. I inspect the mating surfaces of the frog and body, and hit them lightly with a file if necessary. (Reset the frog where you want it).
3. I oil the adjusting mechanisms with some WD-40
4. I adjust the lever cap tension screw for a proper fit.
5. I ensure that chipbreaker mates solidly across the blade. (This is usually accomplished in a few minutes of working the mating surface on the stones).

All of this can be done in a half hour to an hour. The next step is the only one that I spend much time on, and is the most important:

6. I flatten the back of the blade, and usually have to grind a new bevel. Then hone a new cutting edge. The blade needs to be evaluated, because severe pitting will give you a terrible cutting edge. You either have to grind beyond the pitting, or you can buy a replacement blade from IBC, Hock, or Lee Valley.

Originally, I was told I needed to make sure the sole of the plane was flat, and I spent hours upon hours on my first two planes trying to make that happen before giving up. I've come to realize that this isn't such a big deal, and I will always follow the 6 steps above and then take the plane for a test drive. Nine times out of ten, the plane is perfectly serviceable. If it isn't, I look at flattening the sole and perhaps other areas of fine tuning.

Unless there is a ton of rust to remove (I usually don't buy planes that are covered in rust), I can go from unusable to high performance in about an hour to hour and a half, but I've got a few under my belt already. Buying used and fixing them up is a very economical way to build your set of bench planes, and it helps you understand how they work, leading to greater efficiency in using them.

[Maurice Ungaro]

Derek,
You did not put your location in. It's handy to have posted, as there may be some Creekers close by. It's come in handy for me on occasion.

[Matthew N. Masail]

Rehabbing them is not a big deal at all and well worth doing. they can fulfill 90% of your bench planing need. making a new tote might be the most challenging if you don't have a drill press to drill the holes, but it's easy to find them for sale on the bay.

[Judson Green]

+1 for rehabbing what you have. But....

I'd concentrate my efforts on the 4.

The 5 is in pretty sad shape, lateral adjuster is all kinked up, tote is in need of a fix (the horn) and looks like the iron is just about used up. Its an early one, no frog adjuster - not that incessant adjusting of ones frog is in any way necessary. Still some good years left in her, but considering the price of good user's I wouldn't put a ton of time in.

Not sure if its the pictures, but none of the blades/irons seem to be setting on the frog right, like their up on the washer looking part of the lateral adjuster.

[bridger berdel]

Those are No Good. Send them to me. I'll dispose of them properly.

[Jim Matthews]

The number 4 is a workhorse size in my shop.

I would guess that a little steel wool, some oil and a sharp blade
would be all it needs to get going again.

I'm not a fan of the #5 - it's a neither here nor there size for me.
The number 5 is probably in better shape - and replacement handles
are readily available, but I would recommend cleaning up
the smaller plane first.

Remember that what you're after is a blade that is held firmly
enough that it won't shift in use, but can loose enough
that it can be readily adjusted.

[Paul Sidener]

Some of my favorite tools, are the ones I got from my Grandfather. Yes they are worth rehabbing. Keep in mind a plane just holds the blade. The blade is easily replaced, if need be. Clean them up and give them a go, they should work fine.

[Derek Arita]

Thanks so much for all the help. Guess I'll be trying to rehab the planes. I've already researched electrolysis and think that's the way I'll go to start with. I know these aren't valuable planes, but they hold value to our family, so I'll do my best. By the way, I'm in the Northern California, Sacramento area. Thanks again!

[Joe A Faulkner]

Derek, before going too far down the electrolysis path, I'd suggest you simply give them a good cleaning, check the soles for flatness, sharpen the blade and take them for a test drive. Hit the sides and sole with some WD 40, followed by some denatured alcohol and a coat of wax. For a little more tuning info check out Garret Hack's video on FWW:

http://www.finewoodworking.com/tool-guide/video/handplane-tune-up-tips.aspx

From what I see in the photos, I don't think these planes need electrolysis. They just don't look to be that rusty. If they are flat, you likely can use them with just a little tuning. I think they both look to be quite usable with a minimal amount of effort.

[Stew Denton]

Hi Derek,

I'm with Joe, no electrolysis needed. I would work them over with Scotch Bright pads, then with 400 grit wet or dry. I also use a fine wire steel wire brush a lot. If you want to make the bodies look really nice then use chrome or other metal polish from an auto part store. You can make them really look nice, or take the simpler approach listed in some of the posts above, it won't make any difference in how they work...pretty doesn't make them work any better than one with a nice patina. The key is tuning them up and having a frighteningly sharp iron.

By the way, the old Stanley Bailey planes like you have are very much worth restoring. Those years productions are very desirable planes, much better than most newer ones except for the high dollar ones. I think the Golden Age of the Stanley planes was from roughly 1900 to the early 1930s, although the Bedrocks stayed high quality until WW2.

Your two planes are not collectors, but they are in extremely good shape for restoring...pretty clean with very little rust pitting, just a patina, and the body looks like the Japanning is still pretty good. The #4 is in especially nice shape to restore, and the #5 is pretty good in the critical areas.

The thing that always strikes me with planes like yours, is that if you have and sons or grandsons that want to learn fine woodworking, then the family history of those planes may mean a great deal to them. My most valued planes were those that belonged to my father and my grandfather. If your grand sons eventually get them, they will have been in their family for 5 generations.

My background with woodworking is carpentry, and I have used a #5 more than all the rest of my planes put together. I am in the process of learning fine woodworking, but have to count myself as a beginner compared to many on this site, so hope to be using the other sizes of planes more often. The Jack plane is the plane of choice for most carpenters.

I think Jim is right on with the Type identification, my guess the 5 was made between 1900 and 1910, and the 4 in the early to mid 1920s.

I wouldn't use soap and water, as cast iron can be surprisingly porous, despite the appearance. I have read about guys who did that and then put them in a hot oven to dry, they were really surprised at the amount of water that boiled out of the plane. Michael Dunbar in his book on Restoring, Tuning, and Using Classic Woodworking tools recommends using mineral spirits instead of water to scrub the plane with. Its a little slower, but it will clean off the crud.

You can get a replacement tote on Ebay for a bit over $20, plus shipping, if you don't mind doing some significant sanding and refinishing. Be sure you get one from a plane about the same vintage as yours. Yours will be rosewood. You can also find replacement original irons for about that same $20.

I have worked on bent adjusters by careful tapping with a hammer on a metal plate. Careful though, the frog is cast iron, brittle, and it will break, so go easy. You may or may not be able to fix it. The key is knowing when to stop and call it good enough. Trying to make it perfect is not a good plan. (I need to ask a question on this board about replacing an adjuster myself.)

Regards,

Stew

[Jim Koepke]

I have worked on bent adjusters by careful tapping with a hammer on a metal plate. Careful though, the frog is cast iron, brittle, and it will break, so go easy.

The lateral adjuster should be easy to remove. It is included in my "Junker to Jointer" thread:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?114373-Fettling-A-Plane-from-Junker-to-Jointer

If you have a vise it might be easy to remove the bend just by pressing it flat in a vise or a clamp.

jtk

[Marty Gulseth]

Derek, you (we!) are already getting a lot of good info in this thread. One thing I would add - if you Google "Stanley planes" you will get a hit on a website called "blood and sweat" or something like that. The guy's name is Patrick (I forget his last name) and he has a lot of historical info, variants through the years, etc. if that is of interest. A few links, as I remember, to other "how-to" sites. Not that our colleagues here leave many knowledge gaps to fill...

As I mentioned before - I've done some token cleanup on one, and actually went thoroughly through a smaller # 60-1/2 that I regularly use for minor cleanup, etc. I just haven't worked the plane tune-ups onto my priority list.

And - Jim K, as you probably noted, I'm across the state, but thanks for the offer and I'll keep that in mind if/when I get the chance to come that direction!

Regards, Marty

[Stew Denton]

Hi Derek,

The site Marty is thinking of, I think, is the "Blood and Gore" site. I would guess that a lot of us here have spent quite a bit of time on that site. I have in the last year or so. If you type in Stanley Planes Blood and Gore, it will be one of those that come up.

Jim, thanks for the link. I had looked at that tutorial you posted, before, but did not remember the part about removing the adjuster. Derek is not the only one that needs work on an adjuster. I have one that is extremely loose and needs to be re-riveted, but I have been a bit fearful. I don't like riveting on thin cast iron. I need to look your tutorial over more carefully now that I have been reminded that it is there.

A plane I just bought has a loose adjuster.....one I wasn't very smart to buy....hasty hurried decision because the price was extremely reasonable on Ebay and the time was running out. Oh well. The plane has a small chip out of the top of the body, but it was a Bedrock in a size that I would use but don't have, and the price was extremely low for that size plane, much less that size Bedrock.

It needs an iron, and the tote is a non-rosewood replacement, but the tote is in good shape. That said, the price was so low that the final price will be pretty low even after figuring in the cost of the parts. I did handle it a bit the other day, and really like the feel. A friend told me to be grateful because it will always be a user, and I won't hesitate to use it because it will never be anywhere near perfect. At that point I began to bfeel a lot better,a nd may end up being exteremely fond of that plane. I think it is going to be a really good user.

Stew

[Tom Vanzant]

Stew, it sounds like you have a soft spot for Bedrocks...me too. Mine are 604 thru 607, type 6 or 7, rosewood, and all fitted with Hoch iron sets. Loose rivets are simple enough to fix, and Jim's tutorial covers that very well.
Your new plane will clean up and fit right in.

[Chris Hachet]

I have a number 4 and a number 5 of similar vintage that were in much else shape cosmetically when I acquired them...back in the 1980s. I have gotten 30 years of heavy is out of them and want to pass them on to my sons.

[steven c newman]

As for that #5....you can buy a "new" old stock one from Stanley OR nhplaneparts.com
or
go over to Home Depot, and pick up a Buck Brothers 2" wide iron. For about...$3 + Tax.

Any of those three irons will work just fine. The one that is on the #5 plane now? Use it! Save it! Display it! Or retire it!

Any of the three irons will work, unless you would rather spend more for one iron than the two planes cost combined....then maybe but a Hock blade. About any iron that is 2" wide will work in either of those plains.

[Derek Arita]

As for that #5....you can buy a "new" old stock one from Stanley OR nhplaneparts.com
or
go over to Home Depot, and pick up a Buck Brothers 2" wide iron. For about...$3 + Tax.

Any of those three irons will work just fine. The one that is on the #5 plane now? Use it! Save it! Display it! Or retire it!

Any of the three irons will work, unless you would rather spend more for one iron than the two planes cost combined....then maybe but a Hock blade. About any iron that is 2" wide will work in either of those plains.

Steven, thanks! Exactly what I needed to know.

[Stew Denton]

Hi Tom,

Sounds like you have a pretty good flock of Bedrocks. My guess is that you must really enjoy using them, I certainly would.

I have 3-5s, and a 7, but my 604 and 607 are going to given away to one of my son in laws. I have Baileys in the sizes I am giving to him, so have those sizes covered, and will get more pleasure out of giving them to him than I will get out of keeping them. Someday I hope to replace the ones I am giving away with other Bedrocks, and eventually my grandchildren will probably get those.

Yep I really like the old Bedrocks a lot, especially to older round sided ones, but also like the old Baileys. Jim mentioned a while back that he likes the round sided Bedrocks better than the flat sided ones, and I guess that I looked at and used round sided planes so long that the others don't look quite as good to me, but they are great planes. Dad's flat sided #5 Bedrock is flat sided, and that plane means a lot to me because it was his.

I've been working on a #4 Bailey type 11, I bought most of it at a flea market at a really low price, but then found out it had a crack around the mouth. Same deal, was with the wife and in a big hurry so didn't look it over carefully. So after asking here, bought a type 10 body on Ebay, and am making a good plane out of the two. I am going to call it a type 10, and the parts are all typical of type 10s, so think the type 11 was a very early one. I think it is going to be a really good user, and I like it a lot. The tote was broken, had been repaired, the repair was strong mechanically but it was offset a bit and it needed cosmetic help anyway. A good amount of careful sanding and some spray lacquer made it look pretty good, and the repair is only slightly detectible. I only have a few very small parts to use metal polish on, and then it can go back together.

At this point I believe it will look really nice, and I can't wait to sharpen up the iron and give it a go.

Stew

[Stew Denton]

Hey Steven,

Does Home Depot carry 2 1/4" plane irons for my 5 1/2? I just bought a 2 3/8" old Stanley iron, chip breaker, and the cutter screw on Ebay, and plan to grind and file it to fit my older 5 1/2, a good reason to buy one of the later ones....that take the same size iron as a 4 1/2, 6, and 7.

I have seen new 2 1/4" irons on Ebay, but didn't know if they would fit the older planes. The vintage 2 1/4" irons are a little hard to find at a reasonable price.

Stew

[steven c newman]

Sorry, all I have seen over there at HD is the 2" and a block plane iron.

[bridger berdel]

The lateral adjuster should be straightenable, assuming it hasn't been bent back and forth too many times. Don't try to bend the depth adjuster, though. It's cast. It'll just break.

[Jim Koepke]

Hey Steven,

Does Home Depot carry 2 1/4" plane irons for my 5 1/2? I just bought a 2 3/8" old Stanley iron, chip breaker, and the cutter screw on Ebay, and plan to grind and file it to fit my older 5 1/2, a good reason to buy one of the later ones....that take the same size iron as a 4 1/2, 6, and 7.

I have seen new 2 1/4" irons on Ebay, but didn't know if they would fit the older planes. The vintage 2 1/4" irons are a little hard to find at a reasonable price.

Stew

I can not imagine a reason the new ones wouldn't fit as long as they have a slot and are 2-1/4".

Hock makes a blade that should fit. It may be a bit thicker than the Stanley. The dimension to consider is the 2-1/4". Just my preference, but I like the Stanley chip breakers better.

jtk

[steven c newman]

Maybe not HD...but, might try and see if Eric at nhplaneparts would have a couple in that size, might even have the chipbreaker to match it.....

[Chris Hachet]

Maybe not HD...but, might try and see if Eric at nhplaneparts would have a couple in that size, might even have the chipbreaker to match it.....

Or if you feel like spending money, the LV PMV-11 blades stay sharp much longer. YMMV.