Is There Any Way You'd Make A Wood Countertop For A Bathroom?

[Julie Moriarty]

http://studioten25.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Wood-Bathroom-Countertops-Ideas.jpg

It looks cool but I can't imagine it would hold up well. Anyone done this?

[Kent A Bathurst]

As per The Who: "Never did and never will"

Wood. In THE most moisture-intense environment in the house. Huh. What could possibly go wrong?

[John TenEyck]

Undermount sinks, too. Excellent. On the other hand, I stayed in a hotel a couple of years ago that had wood topped vanities and they looked great. I asked how old they were and the manager said 3 years. The sinks were drop in. But I guess some finishes do hold up pretty well in that environment. Or maybe I was the only person that had stayed there in the past 3 years.

John

[johnny means]

Imagine that exposing wood to moisture.

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[Kent A Bathurst]

Undermount sinks, too. Excellent. On the other hand, I stayed in a hotel a couple of years ago that had wood topped vanities and they looked great. I asked how old they were and the manager said 3 years. The sinks were drop in. But I guess some finishes do hold up pretty well in that environment. Or maybe I was the only person that had stayed there in the past 3 years.

John

J-10:

Forgive my failing memory, but did not you, I, The Vroom Dude ​[tm] and others fight our corner on this very topic [different moisture-laden room] recently? :p :p :p

[Kent A Bathurst]

Imagine that exposing wood to moisture.

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Yeah, Johnny -

Not a problem back then. They had 2 shifts in hammocks with 14" O.C allowed per man [alternate shifts on duty, so they really had 28" OC], so they had plenty of labor to constantly scrape & paint, when they weren't scrubbing the deck with holystones, or having to "pay the devil", or climb the rigging to furl the sails.

I gotta believe that scraping and painting was the least of their worries, right?

[johnny means]

BTW, that's the Kalmar Nyckel. A local treasure here in Wilmington, DE. It's a replica that's been in the water, actively sailing since 1997.

[Jamie Buxton]

Julie, weren't you considering buying a sailboat with a wood deck? :)

[Bob Michaels]

Julie, if this was something I really thought that I would enjoy, I would find a way. And, I do think I would enjoy that vanity top. I would either preserve all surfaces and edges with four coats of West System Epoxy which I have had very good results with when rebuilding window frames on exteriors of historic buildings. There are other marine finishes, such as Epiphanes that would do the job as well and I have used on exterior water prone areas. The undermount sink should not be an issue either, as long as the vanity top were fully finished with west system epoxy or epiphanes. So, what's the worst that could happen...it lasted 10 years of daily use instead of 15 years when you'd probably be getting tired of it anyway. Go for it. There's not much to lose.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Julie, weren't you considering buying a sailboat with a wood deck? :)


"A boat is a hole in the water into which you pour money".

Julie already knows this, I have no doubt.

A bathroom, however, has a hole or two into which you put different materials.

[scott vroom]

Vroom dude & son did a teak wood vanity about 5 years ago...& basalt basin. No leaky that style, grasshopper.

[Mike Berrevoets]

i can't be the only one, but I might be the only one that admits it....

i made a wood vanity top for our master bath. It's been in use for about 2 years. Has a semi-vessel sink and is finished with general finishes enduro-var. Looks the same today as the day it went in.

I'm a hobbiest and I wouldn't do it for a customer if I was a pro. I also didn't do it in the kids bathroom as they can beat up just about anything. But I was willing to see what would happen in my own bathroom. If it doesn't work I'll salvage the sink and put down some tiles or something more traditional.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Vroom dude & son did a teak wood vanity about 5 years ago...& basalt basin. No leaky that style, grasshopper.

Master Po et fils -

Very nice. May I ask the source of the sink and the faucet? The source of wood and finish I don't care about cause it ain't never gonna happen. :p

Sincerely,

Grasshopper.........

[Scott Brandstetter]

I agree with your thought process Mike. For goodness sake we are woodworkers. What's the worst that can happen, we have to go back to our shop and create a new one. LOL. In all seriousness, I wouldn't hesitate to put in a wood countertop and I would do my best to seal it properly. If and when it fails, I'm stupid enough to do it over again. Ya never know



i can't be the only one, but I might be the only one that admits it....

i made a wood vanity top for our master bath. It's been in use for about 2 years. Has a semi-vessel sink and is finished with general finishes enduro-var. Looks the same today as the day it went in.

I'm a hobbiest and I wouldn't do it for a customer if I was a pro. I also didn't do it in the kids bathroom as they can beat up just about anything. But I was willing to see what would happen in my own bathroom. If it doesn't work I'll salvage the sink and put down some tiles or something more traditional.

[Warren Wilson]

Julie, if this was something I really thought that I would enjoy, I would find a way. And, I do think I would enjoy that vanity top. I would either preserve all surfaces and edges with four coats of West System Epoxy which I have had very good results with

+1

I used the West System epoxy with fibreglass (over a variety of woods, western red and yellow cedar, birch and mahogany for details) to build a kayak destined for salt water: after 15 years it's still in good shape. Every couple of years I sand it lightly and replace the outer coat of marine spar varnish, which is used to protect the epoxy from UV. The water might make it through a flaw in the finish, but as far as I can tell, it shrugs water off effortlessly.

[Kelby Van Patten]

I made a cherry countertop for our master bath vanity about ten years ago, finished with two coats of WaterLox. It has held up well. Looks and performs just as well today as the day I installed it.

Unless you regularly leave pools of water on the countertop, a properly finished wooden countertop has no more risk of moisture damage than the wooden doors, drawers, or carcass beneath that countertop. (It might not be the best choice for a kids' bathroom that does regularly have pools of water on the countertop, though.)

[Brian W Smith]

Look into spray'able epoxy's.

Reason for post however;Bath ventilation has to be one of the biggest alltime jokes in modern construction industry.If you're lucky you get a fan....if you're really lucky,they located it near the shower.BUT....that's the exhaust.Where's the makeup air comin from?A half inch crack below the entry door?As Kelby posted above,a bathroom typically has other wood in it....yes the OP was about "tops",and that's sort of what everybody focuses(from a moisture standpoint)on.Just saying,there are HUGE bennys to really digging into the vent system in a typical bathroom.You need more makeup air AND,you need to be very serious where it not only comes from but how it's location effects the movement of air within these rms.

One place is in the base/plinth area of the vanity.We're basically wasting 4 or so inches under there.This is just one place a thoughtful designer can "hide" the intake.Best of luck with your new place,BW

[Matt Day]

Brian, are you an HVAC engineer by any chance? Or a tin knocker?

Back on topic: I'd go for it for sure Julie. I'd go with the finishing advice you get here, and maybe post or search the finishing forum as well.

[Mike Cutler]

Julie

Yes I would.
Pick a close, tight grained, tropical, Q-sawn, hardwood. Epoxy size the ends, lay down a .5oz layer of S-glass, and coat the entire structure in epoxy resin. (It could actually be done in fiberglass resin.)
With all of the chemicals present in a modern bathroom, getting it wet with water would be the lesser of my concerns.

Brian
You are correct about bathroom ventilation, it "sucks", literally. When I remodeled our bathrooms I looked for a fan system that exchanged air. To my knowledge, there are none.
Both my bathrooms can bring in air from outside the room, with the doors closed, only because I made them that way. The room has to breathe, no matter what the interior materials are.

[Pat Barry]

http://studioten25.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Wood-Bathroom-Countertops-Ideas.jpg

It looks cool but I can't imagine it would hold up well. Anyone done this?
Hey Julie, what type of wood is this? Really looks great!

[Jesse Busenitz]

I just built a solid oak vanity top w/ drop in sinks..... The client used a marine grade poly I believe.

[Lee Schierer]

If I used teak or Ipe I might consider it. They are highly resistant to moisture and are routinely used for wet applications. I would never use Red Oak, because it sucks up water like a sponge. The counter top in my mother's bathroom had a 1/2" thick oak banding along the front edge. I stained it and coated it with 3-4 coats of oil base polyurethane. Within 3-4 years the poly was worn off and the wood was being damaged by moisture, just from being wiped down occasionally.

[Curt Harms]

Julie

<snip>
Brian
You are correct about bathroom ventilation, it "sucks", literally. When I remodeled our bathrooms I looked for a fan system that exchanged air. To my knowledge, there are none.
Both my bathrooms can bring in air from outside the room, with the doors closed, only because I made them that way. The room has to breathe, no matter what the interior materials are.

I don't know about other areas, but in PA. bathroom ventilation is required by code (as of 1995) only if the bathroom does not have a window. Right now it's +5o F and the wind is blowing. I'm gonna open the window to vent the moisture when I take a shower. Yes indeedy! :rolleyes:

[Mike Cutler]

Curt

It's not so much meeting the literal requirement, as much as doing it effectively. Both my bathrooms have windows, and exhaust fans, but are allowed to pull air from the house. The fans are on timers so they run after the shower is done and the bathroom door is open.

5 deg. is pretty cold to be opening up the window.:eek:

[Tom Ewell]

I've seen and made many a bar top (commercial) done in wood, while not treated to the same conditions as a bathroom I suspect that wear and tear, alcohol spills, puke, steaming hot wash sinks below the counter, smashed glasses, fights and the like would more than likely make up for those conditions. Granted, that was in the day of non waterborne finishes and rubbed finishes were not desired. Can't recall brands but most were finished with a two part epoxy and or poly.

Most of them still are around.

[Julie Moriarty]

Julie, weren't you considering buying a sailboat with a wood deck? :)

Nothing regarding boats involves common sense, practicality or logic. Only what makes the heart flutter upon seeing the boat. :rolleyes:

[Julie Moriarty]

I thought about going wood because it was something I can do and I believe it would be aesthetically pleasing. But this idea only came about after we priced some vanity tops at HD. Our 2nd bath has 5' of cabinets. The HD rep said acrylic was the least expensive custom top without going to Formica. All the acrylic tops had an integral sink. The price for the 5' top, with sink, was over $800, before taxes. The house is going on the market in the spring. The bathroom cabinets and tops were installed in 1987.

I've already made new doors and drawer fronts to replace the oak cathedral ones and sanded down the frames. We'll probably dye the frames black, like we did in the kitchen. So the tops need replacing, but after that $800 quote, I started thinking what else I could do, besides tile, that would help update the bathrooms. Concrete is a bit too industrial and a lot of bull work. Something like marble or granite tile is good but the edging is costly. After wood, I ran out of ideas.

[Art Mann]

Imagine that exposing wood to moisture.

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So, if you want your bathroom counter top to look like the hull of that sailing ship, then use wood. ;)

[scott vroom]

Master Po et fils -

Very nice. May I ask the source of the sink and the faucet? The source of wood and finish I don't care about cause it ain't never gonna happen. :p

Sincerely,

Grasshopper.........


The vessel sink was purchased in Feb 2010 from: http://www.bathroomvesselsinks.com/ Looks like it's no longer available. The Faucet is a Grohe Tenso, same era purchased from: http://www.buyplumbing.net/?s=grohe+tenso&post_type=product Still available.

That job was a complete tear out down to the studs....we moved a wall, relocated plumbing/electrical, built a stall shower blah blah blah.....'da whole shebang. The woman wanted a Japanese spa theme. The top rail of the mirrors over the vanity and makeup table was cut from a pattern that I traced from a photo of a famous Torii gate. It was a fun job. Julie, sorry for the hijack :)

[Jim Matthews]

I did it with an oak 'butcher block' from salvage and a top mounted laundry sink.

Everything seems fine - six months on.

305635

[John TenEyck]

J-10:

Forgive my failing memory, but did not you, I, The Vroom Dude ​[tm] and others fight our corner on this very topic [different moisture-laden room] recently? :p :p :p

I believe I advised that person against using an undermount sink, but that with a drop in sink and the right finish it would probably last a good long time. He was contemplating using heart pine. With something like Ipe' I'd have no fear of doing the undermount sink. Of course, I'm wrong a lot, too, but you get what you pay for here.

John

[scott vroom]

I see the potential for this to spiral into a SawStop-esque debate. :eek:

[Jamie Buxton]

I thought about going wood because it was something I can do and I believe it would be aesthetically pleasing. But this idea only came about after we priced some vanity tops at HD. Our 2nd bath has 5' of cabinets. The HD rep said acrylic was the least expensive custom top without going to Formica. All the acrylic tops had an integral sink. The price for the 5' top, with sink, was over $800, before taxes. The house is going on the market in the spring. The bathroom cabinets and tops were installed in 1987.

I've already made new doors and drawer fronts to replace the oak cathedral ones and sanded down the frames. We'll probably dye the frames black, like we did in the kitchen. So the tops need replacing, but after that $800 quote, I started thinking what else I could do, besides tile, that would help update the bathrooms. Concrete is a bit too industrial and a lot of bull work. Something like marble or granite tile is good but the edging is costly. After wood, I ran out of ideas.

Ah, so the question really is whether the wood top would look good for a few months. After that it becomes the new owner's concern. In that case, sure, wood would work.

You also might look at prefab granite with a drop-in sink. Not from Home Depot, but from a place that really does granite. Prefab has the front edge work done at the factory, and is sized for the usual vanity depth. It needs to be cut to length, and holes cut for the sink and faucets. In this area, it is almost cost-competitive with formica. I dunno how, but it is. These folks -- http://www.thegraniteexpo.com/ -- installed granite prefab counters in a friends kitchen for $900. The kitchen has an L-shape counter about 7' by 3', and a straight run about 7', plus the usual cutouts.

[John C Bush]

A contracter friend just finished his own home remodel and made natural edge slabs for his masterbath, powder room and sons bathroom ---and he turned the lavatory bowls and undermounted them with epoxy---. He used elm slabs ~2+ in. thick for the counters and epoxied stacks of the elm and turned bowls ~18" dia., routed a rabbit on the underside of the CT, epoxied the bowls in, routed the CT flush with the bowl, finished with Waterlox, and it looks great. It will be interesting how it all holds up but touching up or refinishing would be easy with sanding and more Waterox.

[scott vroom]

Something like marble or granite tile is good but the edging is costly.

12" rectified granite tiles with 1/16" grout lines are an inexpensive option to a stone pre-fab. I use a stone fabricator company that does edge bull nosing for $5 per lineal foot for the counter edge and backsplash pieces. I think retail edging is running $8-10/ft in my area. Still, it's an inexpensive option for your small job. Here's a couple of examples, one with granite and the other with through-body porcelain.

[Kent A Bathurst]

I see the potential for this to spiral into a SawStop-esque debate. :eek:

Nah... Everyone on this topic is correct, IMO - just as in the civil SS talks - Ya' pays yer money, and ya' takes yer chances. Plus - in wood countertops, no hotdogs are put at risk and no brakes have to be replaced. :p You wanna buy a SS? Godspeed. Excellent investment. Just not for me.

Now - you wanna talk teak for wet-prone countertops, I'm willing to switch sides. Mebbe some other incredibly dense and rot-resistant species as well. No domestic stuff comes quickly to mind that I would personally consider. I have seen many beautiful sailboats with the owners working weekends maintaining the decks. Doing what they love, no doubt. Hat's off.

But - hey - It ain't my home we are talking about, and wood will perform just fine if proper attention is paid to install and - especially - care and maintenance.

[Julie Moriarty]

Ah, so the question really is whether the wood top would look good for a few months. After that it becomes the new owner's concern. In that case, sure, wood would work.

You also might look at prefab granite with a drop-in sink. Not from Home Depot, but from a place that really does granite. Prefab has the front edge work done at the factory, and is sized for the usual vanity depth. It needs to be cut to length, and holes cut for the sink and faucets. In this area, it is almost cost-competitive with formica. I dunno how, but it is. These folks -- http://www.thegraniteexpo.com/ -- installed granite prefab counters in a friends kitchen for $900. The kitchen has an L-shape counter about 7' by 3', and a straight run about 7', plus the usual cutouts.

My conscience won't let me do something for show that won't last. I can't do the flipper thing.

Some of the comments got me to thinking about using a marine grade finish on the wood. I think that would last for quite a while, especially if it's epoxy. We've got some more to think about...

[Sam Murdoch]

I would not hesitate to make a wooden top for a bath vanity (the only qualifier would be - in an adult household where the users respect their stuff. If you leave standing water around your sink counter you are not the wood top type but then you are likely a - oh never mind - I was going to be un nice :rolleyes:).

I would favor a Waterlox finish rather than a marine varnish because it requires less care, easier to repair (if ever needed) and very very very durable. Though Epifanes is GREAT too.

I would use epoxy for any glue up BUT ESPECIALLY I would coat any opening edges (including faucet holes) with 2 coats of epoxy before the finish. I had an oak kitchen sink counter that was in use for 25 years and though it looked a bit shabby in the end. it served well all that time. If I had known to use Waterlox in the beginning I would have used that rather than a simple Tung oil varnish available in the 80s.

[Dave Zellers]

I don't get the skittishness about a wood countertop. This is almost 3 years old and looks as good as the day I did it. I finished the top all the way around with Arm-R-Seal before assembly.

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[scott vroom]

It's not the wood that you can see but the wood inside of the sink-counter seam where the damage will fester.

I've been called a contrarian (among other less nice things).

Beautiful work BTW......very nice!

[Sam Murdoch]

It's not the wood that you can see but the wood inside of the sink-counter seam where the damage will fester.

And to your point Scott - I repeat myself...




I would use epoxy for any glue up BUT ESPECIALLY I would coat any opening edges (including faucet holes) with 2 coats of epoxy before the finish.

[Art Mann]

My conscience won't let me do something for show that won't last. I can't do the flipper thing.

Some of the comments got me to thinking about using a marine grade finish on the wood. I think that would last for quite a while, especially if it's epoxy. We've got some more to think about...

What about using the really thick clear epoxy that is often used on tables in restaurants? That would provide a good long term surface. My concern with that solution would be the aesthetics of such a thick coating rather than durability.

[scott vroom]

I would use epoxy for any glue up BUT ESPECIALLY I would coat any opening edges (including faucet holes) with 2 coats of epoxy before the finish.

Seasonal/environmental movement of the wood could cause any coating to fail....and all it takes is one tiny entry point for moisture to begin working on the wood.

I suppose with a perfectly executed install you'd improve your odds of delaying the inevitable. However, if I were a buyer I'd be darned concerned about wood in that application not knowing the quality of the work.

Each to their own. My remodel philosophy is to build for longevity and durability. I'd never consider wood other than teak in a wet area.

I guess I've been chewing on this bone long enough...time to spit it out.

[Jim Becker]

Selecting the material is key here...there are some species that would hold up just fine. The real difficulty is the finishing aspects so that "the look" is preserved over time.

[David C. Roseman]

Late to this thread, but I wouldn't hesitate to use wood for a bath vanity top if you're reasonably confident folks will wipe off the excess water when they finish at the sink. :) I've made vanities for two of our guest bathrooms and our entry hall powder room from Honduras Mahogany (back when the real stuff was readily available), stained with Minwax oil stain and finished with multiple coats of marine-grade polyurethane. For the tops I used 3/4" furniture-grade Honduras Mahogany plywood, edge-banded with 1"-wide solid stock then profiled on a shaper. I used drop-in porcelain sinks, set with clear silicone sealant. That was 20 years ago, and happily the vanities, tops included, still look virtually new.

[Teri Lu]

http://studioten25.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Wood-Bathroom-Countertops-Ideas.jpg

It looks cool but I can't imagine it would hold up well. Anyone done this?

Hi Julie,

Not sure what species of wood in your picture, it could be a dense heavy tropical hardwood like teak, ipe or such. In that case, they usually have naturally dense grain with natural oils which makes them okay for that purpose. Think of teak wood decks on boats which require continuous maintenance for looks only, otherwise they need no finishing. The Navy used teak for the decks of warships until they realized they burn.

That said, I built a "temporary" wood frame surround for a recycled stainless steel kitchen sink I found. I used cheap pine furring strips which is probably the worst possible wood for the purpose. I used a very thinned (mineral spirit) varnish which I repeatedly applied until it stopped being absorbed. It's been several years now for that "temporary" wood surround and it still looks like new. I don't mop up water spilled on the wood and it still looks like new. So much for "temporary" :)

The theory I used is that the thinned varnish would soak into the wood pores on each application so that virtually all the pores became polymerized varnish filled and thus virtually "plastic" and waterproof. It doesn't look plastic like the thick epoxy coating used on commercial bars and table.

Bottom line is that I'd do it for a "permanent" vanity like your picture. I does look cool (I have a "thing" for teak). If it were mine, I'd probably keep a towel handy to mop up any water to be sure. I'd use the repeated application of thinned varnish as a finish which looks like an oiled finish.

-- Teri

[Chris Padilla]

Ah, so the question really is whether the wood top would look good for a few months. After that it becomes the new owner's concern. In that case, sure, wood would work.

You also might look at prefab granite with a drop-in sink. Not from Home Depot, but from a place that really does granite. Prefab has the front edge work done at the factory, and is sized for the usual vanity depth. It needs to be cut to length, and holes cut for the sink and faucets. In this area, it is almost cost-competitive with formica. I dunno how, but it is. These folks -- http://www.thegraniteexpo.com/ -- installed granite prefab counters in a friends kitchen for $900. The kitchen has an L-shape counter about 7' by 3', and a straight run about 7', plus the usual cutouts.

I'm right smack in the middle of remodeling my master bath and we were getting discouraged with granite prices and the little amount we needed for the vanity top until we happened upon the prefab stuff. The price was right and we could still get our nice granite. As it turned out, we had the prefab cut for our vanity top and for our daughter's vanity top for when we remodel that in the future.

[Julie Moriarty]

The theory I used is that the thinned varnish would soak into the wood pores on each application so that virtually all the pores became polymerized varnish filled and thus virtually "plastic" and waterproof.

This made me think of Defy Extreme Stain. It is as viscous as water and soaks deep into the wood. You have to apply two coats, wet on wet, because if the first coat dries, the second coat won't penetrate the wood. It works amazingly well and I've used it on practically all the wood we've replaced on the exterior of the house. I've been thinking the reason it works so well is because it soaks deeply into the wood. There may be something to that.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I have a bathroom vanity made of red oak with a red oak top. It worked well for about 10 years. Normal wear and tear that I didn't catch in time led to it being a night mare! If it's not maintained well and regularly, mold and mildew can quickly get into the exposed wood pores and are difficult at best to remove.

With guests coming, in a desperate attempt to cheaply fix it, I tiled it. Grout isn't water proof and eventually the wood moved under the tile. Eventually the tile began to loosen.

In the next few months, I will remove the entire vanity as it has about 15-18 years of normal wear, build a new one and replace it. The new top will be of some kind of stone.

Wood counter tops in a bathroom can look good but expect to have to maintain them.

[roger wiegand]

We lived with formica for years, which is sort-of wood with a waterproof finish and no protection at all for the holes in the particle board for the faucet and sink. With a lot of standing water (e.g. kids bathroom) they eventually failed and got moldy/nasty, but that was after more than 10 years of abuse. One that I made and sealed all penetrations with epoxy I'd expect to last as long or longer, and if I needed to replace it after a decade, big deal. I see no reason not to do it if you like the look. That said, ours are now stone.

[Kent A Bathurst]

.........they eventually failed and got moldy/nasty, but that was after more than 10 years of abuse....

Roger - we are talking about the countertops, and not the kids, correct? :D :D

I wonder - if you replaced it today with the same stuff - the kids are 10+ years older, and quite possible gone from the house altogether. Betcha you would have a different outcome.

Kinda the same point I was making in the sister thread about wood kitchen countertops - Yeah, fine - if you are going to be pretty meticulous about keeping them dry and maintained. If not.....meh.

[Jay Jolliffe]

We have a Mahogany kitchen counter top with a farmers sink. Been there 10 yrs & had to refinish it once. That's because we had a couple house sit for us & they weren't nice to it. I coated the underside with West System Epoxy & the top with about 6-8 coats of semi-gloss urethane. We don't leave standing water on it & wipe it down all the time. I did make sure all end grain around the sink was well sealed. The last house we had I made the same counter & would do it again...

[Rich Engelhardt]

There's only one product I'm aware of that the manufacturers actually go out on a limb and recommend for kitchen and bath counter tops.
That product is - Waterlox

http://www.waterlox.com/project-help/

I worked for a competitor of Waterlox for nearly 25 years.
I have nothing but good to say about their products. (with the exception of their low VOC)

[Peter Quinn]

I've done bathroom counters, kitchen counters with sinks, and even a shower door out of wood. Wood is way tougher than many here seems to give it credit for. The whole exterior of my barn is covered in wood, the best homes in my area have wood roofs, they make boat docks on white oak piers that last 10 years at the water line in brackish and salt water. And of course there are wooden boats...that spend half their lives in the water and the other 2/3 in dry dock. You do the math. In any event just what is anybody doing in their bathrooms that subjects the counter to such stress? The sink takes most of the water, a little casual water contact isn't going to hurt hardwood with a decent finish. There are some species I'd steer away from (like red oak..total sponge) or poplar (mold food), but that leaves plenty of good choices.

Most of the tops I've done for wet areas I used West systems, there is a hardener made for clear finish, 207 IIR? A few light coats to seal all edges and cut outs, then a good top coat like waterlox XL-89 or general Arm-R-seal, good to go against tooth paste and shaving cream for decades. If the potential new owners have a teen into chemistry experiments with strong acids and bases...probably want to go soap stone, but baring that wood is a fine alternative.

Another good DIY option might be concrete, do a little research, its pretty cheap, I'm a fan of it, you have the wood working skills to make a form, a palm sander makes a good vibrator to smooth things out on a small project or you can rent one, and the color options are limitless. Anybody doubt that concrete can take water? It can look pretty close to stone with an acid stain once sealed.

[David Kuzdrall]

I think if you use a wood suitable for boat building and go with vessel sinks you should have a pretty good system for light duty use. By light duty I mean in a half bath or in a well cared for main bath.

I would be more concerned with solvents in hairspray, sunscreen, lotion, nail polish remover, etc ruining the finish than it being in a high humidity space.

[Jeff Duncan]

My opinion for what it's worth is if the top was for you then go ahead, for a homes re-sale value….???? I think it would be a lot easier to sell a stone, (natural or artificial), top than a wood one. You can see the negative reactions of guys on here who work with wood, imagine how people react who don't!

As far as all the gloom and doom don't take too much stock in that. I have a mahogany top in my kitchen with a farmers sink over 10 years old with a, (gasp!), water based finish on it!:eek: If you build it correctly and finish it properly using a good wood you should be fine. However I would be more concerned using Teak or other exotics than more traditional hardwoods. Sure it seems to make sense, oily woods last longer in wet conditions right?. However oily woods like teak can be problematic getting finish to bond with properly. Not saying it can't be done, it's just something that needs extra care and attention. Normal hardwoods take finish quite well, no problems;)

good luck,
JeffD

[Jess Coleman]

In my last house I made and installed a countertop made of waterfall makore veneer over MDF. It has undermining sinks and has been in use for about 8 years without any problem. The key is the finish. The entire countertop was coated in multiple layers of West System epoxy. You have to make sure there is no way moisture can get to the wood. No moisture change, no wood movement, no problem. I'll try to dig up some pictures to post.

[Teri Lu]

This made me think of Defy Extreme Stain. It is as viscous as water and soaks deep into the wood. You have to apply two coats, wet on wet, because if the first coat dries, the second coat won't penetrate the wood. It works amazingly well and I've used it on practically all the wood we've replaced on the exterior of the house. I've been thinking the reason it works so well is because it soaks deeply into the wood. There may be something to that.

I haven't heard of Defy Extreme Stain, but then I know very little about finishes. Interesting that it has to be applied wet on wet. My wood surround of the sink was generously "painted" (more like mopped on) with a very thin mixture of mineral spirits and some varnish I've had for literally decades. It was more mineral spirits than varnish, maybe 20% varnish at best. I let it "dry" (to the touch) between soakings with more of the mixture. It was applied in the summer sun and heat here in central Texas. Polymerization may still be occurring beneath the surface as oxygen diffusion is retarded by the surface film.

On another forum (home built trailers), one person advocates a similar application to the wood parts and says he hasn't had any rot (especially on the lower side).

I think this treatment would even work with a ring porous wood like red oak. In general, red oak is known for not being very rot resistant because of the "soda straw" structure. If you plugged up the soda straws, then it couldn't soak up water and rot.

On another subject but similar, I remember reading of a company making water glass (sodium silicate) pressure treated wood as a non-toxic substitute for the copper and former arsenic compounds. Again, I suppose it works by sealing the pores of the wood. It's also supposed to be fire resistant too. Might be a bit tough on cutting tools. I just looked it up, it's called Timbersil http://timbersilwood.com/ . Only available in southern yellow pine unless that's what you want.

-- Teri

[Rich Riddle]

I also don't put wood floors in a bathroom but know a fireman who did last week. He asked for my help. He didn't like the advice and received no assistance in the losing battle.

[Curt Harms]

I thought about going wood because it was something I can do and I believe it would be aesthetically pleasing. But this idea only came about after we priced some vanity tops at HD. Our 2nd bath has 5' of cabinets. The HD rep said acrylic was the least expensive custom top without going to Formica. All the acrylic tops had an integral sink. The price for the 5' top, with sink, was over $800, before taxes. The house is going on the market in the spring. The bathroom cabinets and tops were installed in 1987.

I've already made new doors and drawer fronts to replace the oak cathedral ones and sanded down the frames. We'll probably dye the frames black, like we did in the kitchen. So the tops need replacing, but after that $800 quote, I started thinking what else I could do, besides tile, that would help update the bathrooms. Concrete is a bit too industrial and a lot of bull work. Something like marble or granite tile is good but the edging is costly. After wood, I ran out of ideas.

Julie, I don't know how you feel about solid surface but it's pretty DIY friendly and no special tools required except the adhesive gun. The trick can be getting it. Here's a source : solidsurface.com

[Erik Loza]

Late to the discussion but we have walnut countertops in both bathrooms. No issues or complaints. Enough epoxy and anything is waterproof. As probably has already been mentioned, leave the underside surfaces unfinished. Best of luck.

Erik Loza
Minimax

[Bill McNiel]

I've made approximately 6 or 7 wood Kitchen or Bath counters over the years. Never had a call back or complaint, I use West Systems (usually two coats) and then Waterlox top coats.

[Mel Fulks]

But Rich, there are old houses that still have old toilets and wood floors that are still good. Must everything that used to
routinely work be abandoned because it is difficult to get someone to do it right.

[Peter Quinn]

But Rich, there are old houses that still have old toilets and wood floors that are still good. Must everything that used to
routinely work be abandoned because it is difficult to get someone to do it right.

Exactly. Do I need to have a concrete slab on grade with wash down drain to have a "safe" bathroom. I've seen 100+ year old houses with wood floors in the bath, no issues, I've seen wood installed in newer construction in the bath.....no problems. If you are in the habit of incorrectly installing toilets or have two rowdy kids that play the splash game in the tub them you leave the water they displace on the floor.....well that brings us back to the slab with the drain really.

[Keith Pleas]

I use West Systems (usually two coats) and then Waterlox top coats. I'm not following this at all. Penetrating tung oil over epoxy? The instructions for Waterlox would have you remove the epoxy first, right?

[Bill McNiel]

Keith,
I consulted with both West Systems and Waterlox before trying this approach and they said to go ahead. Not convinced, I tried the tic-tac-toe test several times with positive results so I went ahead with the concept. I am by no means an authority but have not had any problems yet (first tried this about 8 or 9 years ago). Because the Waterlox "self-adhears" it allows the customer, in theory, to revitalize the surface on their own.

[Keith Pleas]

Keith,
I consulted with both West Systems and Waterlox before trying this approach and they said to go ahead. Not convinced, I tried the tic-tac-toe test several times with positive results so I went ahead with the concept. I am by no means an authority but have not had any problems yet (first tried this about 8 or 9 years ago). Because the Waterlox "self-adhears" it allows the customer, in theory, to revitalize the surface on their own.
So what exactly are "positive results"? Are you saying that the oil penetrates through the epoxy? I can't see that happening. I think you're saying that the oil gives an oily finish (?) to the epoxy. And, of course, it smells good! But the penetrating qualities, like for all other penetrating tung oils (Starbrite Teak Oil, Daly's Seafin, et cetera)...if you aren't penetrating the epoxy (which cannot be a good thing!) then why not just buy straight tung oil (about $45 a gallon)? If you want to get brand name tung oil you could buy Minwax - that's $25 a quart (works out to $100 a gallon).

PS: Just after posting I read the Woodcraft flyer - they have "Wood River 100% Pure Tung Oil" on sale for $49.99. It's "Easy to Apply" and "Produces a Rich Lustrous Sheen". Because, you know, after all it's just tung oil. Pardon me when I go back to squeezing my (tung) nuts. :)

[Bill Orbine]

I've done bar tops! Topped with Behlen's bar top finish. I've done one six sided shower stall out of cypress (5 sides cypress, 1 side curtain). Coated with Sikkens marine varnish. No complaints.

[Bill McNiel]

Keith,
"positive results" = No lifting of the Waterlox, ie. it adheared to the epoxy, ability to rub out the surface to client's desired sheen and no degradation of the wood over time. Pretty much what I was going for, as opposed to "an oily surface".

BTW- after a couple of coats of Waterlox applied directly to a wood surface I doubt it is providing any additional "penetration", but I don't know for sure.

[David Kuzdrall]

Keith,
"positive results" = No lifting of the Waterlox, ie. it adheared to the epoxy, ability to rub out the surface to client's desired sheen and no degradation of the wood over time. Pretty much what I was going for, as opposed to "an oily surface".

BTW- after a couple of coats of Waterlox applied directly to a wood surface I doubt it is providing any additional "penetration", but I don't know for sure.

how did you apply the epoxy and how thick do you think the epoxy film was?

[Keith Pleas]

Keith,
"positive results" = No lifting of the Waterlox, ie. it adheared to the epoxy, ability to rub out the surface to client's desired sheen and no degradation of the wood over time. Pretty much what I was going for, as opposed to "an oily surface".

BTW- after a couple of coats of Waterlox applied directly to a wood surface I doubt it is providing any additional "penetration", but I don't know for sure.
OK, I can see that there's something that remains on the surface of the epoxy that can provide a different sheen. Have you been able to capture this effect in a before / after photograph? I would imagine that would be extremely difficult.

[Bill McNiel]

David,
The application process is to pour the epoxy on the surface, spresd it evenly with a smooth roller and then top it by lightly draging with a 1/3 cut of the smooth roller. This usually eliminates the vast majority of bubbles, never really liked or had much sucess, with that whole "heat the finish with a torch to raise/pop the air bubbles". Most marine stores that sell West System products have the smooth rollers.
After two coats I level the surface by sanding before starting with the WaterLox. I'm not sure what the epoxy finish thickness is in mm, but it is not anywhere as thick as the epoxy pour bar finishes one sees. Each coat of epoxy is approximately the thickness of a "thick" coat of latex paint.

Keith - I haven't tried to photograph the difference in finish effect. Truth be told, my photo documentation of completed projects sucks. I will try to locate some photos to post. I originally started using the WaterLox over the epoxy base when I did some counters out of 100 year old fir that the clients wanted the milling marks left in but didn't want nooks and crannies that would be bacteria growth environments, hence the epoxy as a filler and serious waterproof membrane. I couldn't get the desired final finish sheen and texture with the epoxy alone, hence the WaterLox topcoat.

Please understand that I am self educated in wooodworking and finishing, some by research and alot by trial and error. I only post or comment in an attempt to share a little of what I have learned in fifty years of working with wood. I'm no expert in/at anything and still learn alot from this forum.

[scott vroom]

I see the potential for this to spiral into a SawStop-esque debate. :eek:

73 and counting :D :D

[David Kuzdrall]

Bill,

Thank you for your response, this gives me a couple of ideas. I am not sure if you can get any pictures of either of the two projects you mentioned, but if so it would be a big help. I really like the idea of epoxy but I hate the thick look that it usually has.

[Kent A Bathurst]

73 and counting :D :D

Dude.

Another topic that will not die.

YOu win.

Regards.

[Kevin McCluney]

I installed a mahogany countertop in my master bath years ago. It's holding up very well - slight patina, but no gouges, etc. It's simply stained and coated with oil-based polyurethane.
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[Bill McNiel]

David,
I will search for some photos, we have had some camera/computer issues so it may take a couple of days (actually my wife and dsaughter will be doing the searching). I agree with you regarding the look and feel of epoxy coatings, I don't care much for poly finishes for that same reason. Know that one can always sand down the epoxy to the point where it has coated the surface withoout the thick buildup. As I said before, the ability to "rub out" the WaterLox finish to a desired sheen reaslly helps.

[Kevin Nathanson]

https://www.google.com/search?q=wooden+sink&num=100&tbm=isch

Counter-schmounter...

K

[scott vroom]

Water and wood: Dancing with the Devil

[Kent A Bathurst]

Water and wood: Dancing with the Devil

The Gospel According to The Vroom Dude[tm]. DOn't ever change, brudda - keep pushing that rock !! I'm with you all the way............... :p :p

[Julie Moriarty]

Water and wood: Dancing with the Devil

I'll dance with this devil! :D

http://newimages.yachtworld.com/resize/1/87/61/4028761_2_20120801045322_1_0.jpg?f=/1/87/61/4028761_2_20120801045322_1_0.jpg&w=606&h=467&t=1343825604000

[Tom Ewell]

Kitchen counters
Bath Tubs
Sinks and 'seating'
Wood is a very versatile medium ain't it.


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[Steven Powell]

Yes I would. But I have wood countertops in my kitchen also and have had no issues with them so far. I would think that as long as it was finished properly it wouldn't be an issue.

[Richard McComas]

Here's mine. Around 20 years old. Red Oak flooring. 4 coats Poly. Almost as good as new.

306474

[scott vroom]

So Julie, after a lengthy & spirited discussion we all want to know what you're going to do with YOUR bath countertop?

[Kent A Bathurst]

So Julie, after a lengthy & spirited discussion we all want to know what you're going to do with YOUR bath countertop?

She is going to sail it to the Gulf.

[Julie Moriarty]

She is going to sail it to the Gulf.

You're actually on the right track. The whole reason for tackling this project is to get the house sold so I can (hopefully) buy that boat I've been dreaming about for a few decades. But the first stop will be the Bahamas. Too many oil rigs in the Gulf.

As for the wood vanity tops, we found a place where we can buy granite for about the same price as just the wood we were thinking of using. This could be a no-brainer.

[scott vroom]

You're actually on the right track. The whole reason for tackling this project is to get the house sold so I can (hopefully) buy that boat I've been dreaming about for a few decades. But the first stop will be the Bahamas. Too many oil rigs in the Gulf.

As for the wood vanity tops, we found a place where we can buy granite for about the same price as just the wood we were thinking of using. This could be a no-brainer.

No brainers are something we can understand :p:p:p

[Johnny Rowland]

I would do it in a minute!! You can get epoxy like is used on bar tops.I've used it many times,totally waterproof wherever it's applied..

[Kent A Bathurst]

You're actually on the right track. The whole reason for tackling this project is to get the house sold so I can (hopefully) buy that boat I've been dreaming about for a few decades. But the first stop will be the Bahamas. Too many oil rigs in the Gulf.

As for the wood vanity tops, we found a place where we can buy granite for about the same price as just the wood we were thinking of using. This could be a no-brainer.

Julie - I am no kinda sailor. Having said that, I can sand and refresh varnished surfaces.

My point? You need a crew member dedicated to varnish maintenance on your trip, you let me know. I'll crew for you if that is my only task. :p

Will bring my own set of top-end varnish brushes, and my fishing rods.

[Julie Moriarty]

Julie - I am no kinda sailor. Having said that, I can sand and refresh varnished surfaces.

My point? You need a crew member dedicated to varnish maintenance on your trip, you let me know. I'll crew for you if that is my only task. :p

Will bring my own set of top-end varnish brushes, and my fishing rods.

And your fish cleaning tools, recipes and cooking skills too. ;) I'll be in the cockpit pouring the rum :D

[scott vroom]

Captain Julie reading cabin boy Kent the riot act...again. :p

[Kent A Bathurst]

And your fish cleaning tools, recipes and cooking skills too. ;) I'll be in the cockpit pouring the rum :D

We gots a deal, Julie - we gots a deal. I can clean 'em and I can cook 'em and I can drink rum.

Anchors aweigh.

[Keith Pleas]

BTW- after a couple of coats of Waterlox applied directly to a wood surface I doubt it is providing any additional "penetration", but I don't know for sure.
This has been driving me nuts. I put a couple of coats of WS 105/207 on a piece of African teak, sanded off the epoxy gloss, and applied some Seafin. Results - it just wipes off, no difference at all.

So then I looked into Waterlox - and I'll bet you're using their "Original Sealer Finish". So I just drove down to Woodcraft (the only place in Seattle that has it - and they're 15 minutes from my house AND open on Sunday!) and wiped on a couple of quick coats.

What's really confusing (to me) is that Waterlox says they're a "tung oil" finish, but they sure don't contain much tung oil - their MSDS states that it's "Stoddard Solvent 8052-41-3 73.77% weight", and that's a petroleum distillate. Tung oil, phenolic resin, and ester gum, and are "among the top five components". So they also say "We view our Waterlox Original Tung oil finishes as varnishes ". And I now see that varnish over epoxy is a well-known technique (http://www.westsystem.com/ss/varnish-over-epoxy/).

It definitely looks better than epoxy - but it still looks like the wood is encapsulated in...something...varnishy I guess. My wife has OKed this for the shower shelf, but she wants the rest of the teak in the bathroom to have the tung oil finish (though we don't expect to have standing water anywhere else).

[Jim Becker]

Once a finish formula's ingredients are mixed and cooked, they turn into a singular product...varnish. Using even a little Tung Oil in the recipe means they can mention it in their marketing.

As to penetration...anything that cures makes for only the first coat to penetrate into the wood.

[Julie Moriarty]

We ended up going the granite top route. We went to the "granite store" where they had slabs on display and picked out two different types for the two bathrooms. I don't think any kind of wood would have worked as well, as far as tying in what was already there (and weren't going to replace).

My plan was going to be framing the mirrors with African mahogany and making the pieces on the bottom of the mirror go all the way to the top of the granite. The wood wouldn't be exposed to the same abuse as a top would but there is still the issue of water left sitting at the stone-wood joint. Hopefully caulk would take care of that, as long as it doesn't shrink.

I made up some trim pieces for the mirror trim
http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab233/jules42651/mirrortrim_01_zps3zvnd8wd.jpg

Those boards are 3" wide. I have two boards that are 5" wide for the bottom. But when I measured for the bottom, the old tops were still on and I thought the granite was going to be 1-1/2" thick. They were actually 1-1/4" thick and now the bottom boards don't work because I cut it so close. So I picked up some more wood today and plann on making wider bottom boards. Problem is, in my visualization of it, I wondered if the bottom boards being 5-1/2" or 6" wide might look off.

On the way back from the hardwood store, I stopped at HD to pick up some plumbing parts. While there I made a walk through the tile aisle and saw something that I could use for the bottom 2-3", that would blend well and then I could make the trim around the mirror the same width all the way around. It's glass and aluminum tile that can be made into 3" widths. The glass is silver & grey and the aluminum is brushed.

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab233/jules42651/bsink-0103_zpsgkik5zs1.jpg

In the lower left corner of the mirror the silver is separating and turning black. The trim would cover that up. I still have to glue the side panels (1/4" mahogany ply) in place and do something about the base of the cabinets. I'm not sure if I should use the 1/4" ply or paint the base black. I'm also thinking of replacing the oak baseboard with AM, if I have enough left.

It never ends...

[Kent A Bathurst]

.......... framing the mirrors with African mahogany and making the pieces on the bottom of the mirror go all the way to the top of the granite. The wood wouldn't be exposed to the same abuse as a top would but there is still the issue of water left sitting at the stone-wood joint. Hopefully caulk would take care of that, as long as it doesn't shrink.

I would rethink that, Julie. Mother Nature wants that to fail.

Hows about a short [2" +/-] granite backsplash, with the mirror frame sitting on top of that? That would be as close to bullet-proof as you can get.

[Larry Edgerton]

I would rethink that, Julie. Mother Nature wants that to fail.

Hows about a short [2" +/-] granite backsplash, with the mirror frame sitting on top of that? That would be as close to bullet-proof as you can get.

Hey Kent!

I have a Makore vanity top glued up for my bath, I'll send you a picture when its done and one every year to prove it can be done! :p

[Mel Fulks]

More bad news ...I sometimes find pieces of granite that are CRUMBLING ....but they could be old ,they've been making it
a long time. Nice job of straightening that infernal African " mahogany".

[Kent A Bathurst]

Hey Kent!

I have a Makore vanity top glued up for my bath, I'll send you a picture when its done and one every year to prove it can be done! :p

Good for you, Larry. Looking forward to the photos.

In the meantime, just out of curiosity - - on which salt-water seas will your bathroom be sailing? :p

[Julie Moriarty]

We went back to HD but first visited a tile store right next door to see what they had. Nothing there worked. So we bought some glass tile at HD and will trim it to whatever width works to allow for at least 3" of tile under the mirror frame. The 2nd bathroom has more room under the mirror so we may end up going 4" on the tile there.

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab233/jules42651/bsink-0104_zps4nc9zv5t.jpghttp://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab233/jules42651/bsink-0203_zpsximojjiy.jpg

The backsplash tile for the master bath worked perfectly. The 2nd bath required us to compromise. We figured it would blend well with the wood frame and fairly well with the granite top but just okay with the plumbing fixtures.

The only thing yet to be determined is how to finish the ends of the tile. The aluminum strips in the first picture are U shaped so there's a void left at the crosscut section. I was thinking of using strips of tile to cap the ends but if that didn't work, I'll have to use wood.

[Julie Moriarty]

One thing I forgot to mention was this will be my first try at cutting glass tile. A neighbor had me over to give an estimate for installing under-cabinet lighting in her kitchen. She just had glass tile installed and said there was glass chips everywhere. I bought a 7" glass tile blade for the wet saw and I'm hoping that will solve the issues of chipping. Fingers crossed.

[Larry Edgerton]

Let me know how the glass tile cutting goes Julie if you will. I have a nice Pearl wet saw, but I have never cut glass tile either and that is what Laura wants in the bath above the wood countertop.

Thanks, Larry

[Larry Edgerton]

Good for you, Larry. Looking forward to the photos.

In the meantime, just out of curiosity - - on which salt-water seas will your bathroom be sailing? :p

No salt water for me! If I fall overboard in the Great Lakes all I have to worry about is hypothermia.

[Rodger Kanis]

No salt water for me! If I fall overboard in the Great Lakes all I have to worry about is hypothermia.

Or, if you fell right now, a concussion. There's a lot of ice coverage right, depending on which one you fall "into". :)

[Larry Edgerton]

Good point!

[scott vroom]

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Kent A Bathurst http://www.sawmillcreek.org/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?p=2380473#post2380473)
I would rethink that, Julie. Mother Nature wants that to fail.

Hows about a short [2" +/-] granite backsplash, with the mirror frame sitting on top of that? That would be as close to bullet-proof as you can get.


Hey Kent!

I have a Makore vanity top glued up for my bath, I'll send you a picture when its done and one every year to prove it can be done! :p

Can we assume your bath will be top mounted and caulked? That's quite different from positioning boards vertically such that the end grain wicks water off the wet counter top, like a giant straw.

Just sayin'

[scott vroom]

I see the potential for this to spiral into a SawStop-esque debate. :eek:

C'mon folks, just one more post and we'll surpass the longest Sawstop thread I could find :p

[Sparky Paessler]

I have an old quarter sawn white oak dresser I made into a vanity about 25 years ago. finished it with ploy. Has held up great! It does after 25 years of use need to be refinished but I will probly just recoat it with a couple coats of ploy again. (worked for the last 25 years!). We did have a local restaurant that had sinks made entirely out of wood. looked like they had coated them with epoxy. After a couple years use they still looked good. Always wanted to try that!

[scott vroom]

I assume you meant poly.

[Phil Kurcon]

Built this 3 years ago. No problems.

[Kent A Bathurst]

C'mon folks, just one more post and we'll surpass the longest Sawstop thread I could find :p

You actually researched that? Time to change your meds, Scott - something ain't right. :p

[Brian Kent]

Sam Maloof's home has a wooden kitchen counter top, even right around the sink.

[Julie Moriarty]

Did the tile backsplash in the master bath. Tile yesterday, grout today. The glass cutting blade cut the tile like a laser. No chipping at all.
http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab233/jules42651/bsplash_0102_zpspuqy9969.jpg

Wood frame for the mirror will be installed probably next week. I have to remake the bottom pieces. Then I'm going to make a light fixture - FLR influenced.

[Patrick Walsh]

Coversion varish.......!