Outdoor Wood Furnaces

[Bill Grumbine]

Greetings all

Although it is in the 90s right now, I am contemplating the onset of winter. We just got our contract for the heating oil company, and I had to stick my head out the window and yell, I'm mad as $#@*, and I'm not going to take it anymore! I literally have tons of wood here at the Five Barns Complex, and so we are starting to think about an outdoor furnace. Does anyone here have any experience with this type of heating? I would be interested to hear stories and recommendations. I am not sure if I asked about this last year, although that was when we started looking around at them.

We are looking at two different styles, one that burns wood only and one that burns wood or coal. In either event, we will keep our oil burner and a tank of fuel as backup in the event of illness, travel, or something else unforeseen.

Thanks.

Bill

[Lee Schierer]

I hate the one our neighbors have. In the winter when it is cold and still the smoke settles into the valley precisely where our house is. It gets pretty thick at times.

You also need to feed it lots of wood in the winter. Someone is going to have to cut, haul and stack the wood. Someone will also have to go out and feed it in the early morning, part way through the day and jsut before bed time and in all sorts of nasty weather. You'll also need a place nearby to store the wood to keep it dry. Part of the operating cost will be the fuel prep and refueling time.

Of course it will also make a great place to get rid of your mistakes in the shop should you ever make one. :D

[Jeff Sudmeier]

I don't know a whole lot about them, but I know that a friend has one. He fills it about every other day when it is just cool out and the most he ever fills it is once a day, even when it is bitter cold.

The biggest concern is what to do when you can't be there to fill it (Vacation, etc), but it looks like you have that covered.

[Greg Heppeard]

I used to work in a cabinet shop in Ohio that had one...His was big enough to just throw full pallets in. The in-floor water heat system worked great...kept the shop comfortable even in close to 0 weather. If you use dry timber, it usually doesn't smoke too bad, except when you first start the fire.

[Jamie Buxton]

What I've read is that in order to get a long burn -- one of their selling points -- they stop down the fire a lot. That causes a very smoky burn. The smoke may bother you or your neighbors.

[Dennis Peacock]

Bill,

A buddy of mine has one and just loves it. He stokes the fire once each day and dampers the fire so it will last as long as possible. He has very little smoke from it and the heat is piped into his house via duct work and fan unit. Thermostatically controlled to the damper and his home is toasty in the winter. I belive he burns about 2 chords of wood each winter. Of course our winters aren't as hard as yours but it still requires heating for about 4 to 5 months each year.

[JayStPeter]

Bill,
I'm with you. I keep adjusting our system so the propane kicks in only on the coldest days.
A neighbor of ours where I grew up had a woodburning furnace for a long time. I think he liked it for the most part, but got rid of it because of creosote. He said that he had to rig a pressure washer to inject sand so he could get the thing clean each year. After 10-12 years he tired of the cleaning and supply of wood necessary and gave it up.
This guy had some impressive equipment too. He had a full woodworking and machine shop. He actually collected tools. He had some real cool and odd machines. For the wood heat, he had a collection of chain saws, a dump bed pickup with winch, and a bunch of wood splitters with some rigged up with hydraulic feed.
My father set up our house to use a wood stove. It had built in fans and he rigged the house with fans built into the walls to get it around. It would run about 10 hrs. without stoking before the house heat would kick in. The furnace used to wake me up just before my alarm clock in the winter as it was the only time it ran. I think he would only get one fill of oil each year. He enjoyed collecting and chopping the wood and I think he misses it now that they moved. It was much easier to buy him gifts back then too (gloves and chainsaw blades and sharpening equipment were always needed and appreciated).

Jay

[Richard Gillespie]

For 16 years I supplemented my heat pump with a wood stove. This is the second house I've done this with. The draw backs were, even in this some what southern location, I was burning between 3 and 5 cords of wood a year. That meant, I had to locate, cut, split and stack that amount of wood a year. At my age, fast approaching 60, that got old.

Bringing that much cut wood into the house resulted in an infusion of dirt, debris and bugs into the house. Every three weeks I would have to clean the ash out of the stove which filled a 5 gallon can. My chimney is 27 feet high and twice a year I would have to clean out the creosote.

Last fall I said enough and switched to a pellet stove. Three weeks of burn results in 1 quart of ash. The pellets cost me $2.36 a forty pound bag and I burned 63 bags last year. Pellets in my state are considered fuel and there is no sales tax on them.

I understand that the question was on a out door system. I wouldn't want to be required to go out doors in the winter to feed a heating system, multiple times in a given day.

[Gary Max]

The part you will like most Bill--is when someone holds a door open---it ain't costing you a truck load of money. I wish that I would of put my system in the floor when I built--- but I ran short of money. They sell a lot of the outdoor systems around here and I see a big price range on them--there must be a big difference in the way they work.

[Steve Ash]

Bill,
I built a auto body shop for a guy about 4 years ago and before the concrete was poured he had coils put in place under the floor. He has that connected to a manifold and a wood heater outside. He absolutely loves it, the floor is always warm which is a bonus when he needs to get under a car. When a garage door is opened up it doesn't take long to heat the area back up.
Years ago when I lived in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan I heated my house with wood heat, it was the warmest and most pleasant heat that I've ever used. My wife often remarks about how she misses wood heat and I'd do it again if I had a abundant source of wood other than my shop mistakes!

[Kirk (KC) Constable]

I hate the one our neighbors have. In the winter when it is cold and still the smoke settles into the valley precisely where our house is. It gets pretty thick at times.

You also need to feed it lots of wood in the winter. Someone is going to have to cut, haul and stack the wood. Someone will also have to go out and feed it in the early morning, part way through the day and jsut before bed time and in all sorts of nasty weather. You'll also need a place nearby to store the wood to keep it dry. Part of the operating cost will be the fuel prep and refueling time.

Of course it will also make a great place to get rid of your mistakes in the shop should you ever make one. :D

You talked ME out of it...should I ever be in the position of needed heat. :o

KC

[Chris Damm]

Bill, just make sure you look at one made out of stainless steel not mild steel, DAMHIK! The differance in the life of the stove makes the intial investment well worth it.
Chris

[Bill Grumbine]

Howdy everyone. Thanks for the responses. Lee, I know about the smoke, and it should not be a problem. Lots of people around here heat with wood, including us in the schoolhouse right now, and it is not a problem. Still days around here are something of a rarity. Work? Outside? I am already doing a lot of that, so a little more is not going to hurt. Storage? We have lots. :D The corn crib at the top of the hill alone is good for around 12 cords all by itself. And mistakes go into the fire on a regular basis. Lots of round firewood around here.

Spending the time to process the wood is something I am already doing. A lot of it is in irregular chunks left over from the turning process. Right now I can't get to the stuff to burn it all before it rots, and to have free fuel rotting on the ground while I am paying over $2.50/gal for fuel oil is horrible to contemplate. I still have to check with the township and my insurance company, but I don't think there is going to be a problem.

Bill

[Rob Russell]

Bill,

The sawyer that did a bunch of cutting for me heats with an outside wood boiler. His house has normal baseboard hydronic heat, it's just that the water is heated by a wood boiler outside and piped back in. It works for him.

Rob

[David Wilson]

Bill
Not to change the subject but have you checked into a shelled corn furnace? I've seen them at a local farm show and was impressed. They use a stoker similar to the old coal furnaces so you don't have to fill them daily. Some use a storage hopper which you fill as needed and they reportadly produce very little ash.

[Bob Winkler]

Bill, the guy who just cut 4 trees down for me has one. He lives in an 18th century farmhouse and his heating bills were driving him crazy. His uses 2 Aquastats so that the oil furnace in the basement kicks in if the water temp drops 20 deg from his wood fired furnace. It's been burning for 4 years straight, and he swears by it, although he admits it bugs him to feed it in 100 deg summer weather. If I were doing it, I would heat my hot water separately, if possible.

Bob

[William Parks]

While we're on this subject, has anyone had experience with pellet furnaces (not stoves). We are designing our new home in Montana and have seen advertisements for furnaces by a New England company. Our plan is to use solar panels to preheat water for a radiant floor system, but we will need some additional form of heat. I like the idea of a clean burning product, but wonder if the pellets can provide enough BTU's as a main furnace.

[John Shuk]

Billl,
I don't have one but every time I pay my oil company I feel the same way. My big concern is that the spot I would place it would most likely cause me to have the smoke blow toward the house. I've done some research and from what I understand it smokes alot when the thermo calls for heat due to the fact that it chokes the fire down in between. They say you can use whole logs about 4 feet long even burn green. I think I would use seasoned wood that has been split. I don't see a downside to that. You just lay in the wood early and let it season no big deal. I really don't see a downside to the boiler for you. I think it is made with a guy in your situation in mind. You have plenty of space and plenty of wood. I think it would be a wise investment.

[Richard Gillespie]

While we're on this subject, has anyone had experience with pellet furnaces (not stoves). We are designing our new home in Montana and have seen advertisements for furnaces by a New England company. Our plan is to use solar panels to preheat water for a radiant floor system, but we will need some additional form of heat. I like the idea of a clean burning product, but wonder if the pellets can provide enough BTU's as a main furnace.

I'm using a pellet stove to supplement a heat pump in northern Virginia. Initially the pellet stove wasn't putting out enough heat to do the job. After conferring with the manufacturer and changing one setting the pellet stove does just fine. It produces very little ash and smoke, unlike the wood stove that preceded it. So far I'm pleased with the pellet stove. How it would do in a colder climate I can't say.

[Charles McKinley]

Hi Bill,

Do you have forced air or hot water heat now? It is an easy addition if you have a hot water system.

If you have forced air you have a couple of options. fFrst is put a heat exchanger in your furnace plenum, or add a hot water system to the house (radiators, base board, radiant wall pannels etc.)

Mahoning has dual fuel options available. (waste oil, fuel oil, propane, or natural gas)

I have heard very good things about Central Boiler as well.

[Paul Downes]

Hi Bill, How are ya. I've been away from the forum for 8 months or so.
I put in an outdoor wood stove last winter. This one happened to be a local built stove somewhat similar to a Central Boiler eairly design. To make a long story short. I got it from my father-in-law ($500, I could'nt pass it up) who had two and with their new waste oil burner did'nt need 2 of them. Some of the main points to consider is how much demand you will put on the stove. I'm heating my home, domestic hot water, and wood shop. My stove is a bit small for the load I'm putting on it @ 125 gallons water capacity. This I believe is one of the most important considerations. The larger your water mass in the stoves system, the less cycling the stove does. I am considering adding an insulated tank to add 100 gallons or so. There is a plethera of manufactureres out there and all claim their design is the best. In my opinion there is a lot of marketing B.S. Different grades stainless, boiler plate, natural draft, forced draft, etc. A couple of design points to consider. I would get a stove that vents through the top of the stove and I would also have insulated chimny pipe. As the wood gases cool in the exhaust part of the stove water and wood acids condense out which can eat away steel. MY stove exhausts out of the rear of the stove and I had to construct and weld in that part. It is this part of the stove where I can see the justification for stainless steel. 300 series stainless would work fine. I would be glad to e-mail you with more info if you would like. I was going to build my own stove, and have built most of one with a friend who has built 3-4. There is lots of things you can do yourself to save money on the installation costs.

[Joe Breid]

Bill,

I installed and used a wood boiler (Central Boiler) for 6 yaers until I sold the house. It replaced a wood /oil combination furnace that I had inside the house. In my opinion if you are going to heat with wood an outside boiler is the only way to go. It gets all of the smoke, bugs and dirt outside and also no more chimney fires to worry about. The insurance company did not increase my rates as they had with the inside wood stove.

I installed a radiator in the plenum of the forced air system in the house and hooked a thermostat to the fan. The hot water was circulating all of the time between the boiler nad the radiator so that when the fan turned on there was instant heat. I also had a domestic hot water loop plumbed in so that I was saving on heating my hot water.

When the temperatures were normal during the winter, (0 - 30 degrees) I would fill the boiler 2 times each day. Once when I left for work and once in the evening. When the temperatures were below zero I would have to fill it 3-4 times.
When I installed mine all of the units I looked at were installed at ground level. I raised mine almost 2 feet so that I did not have to bend over to throw wood in. My wheelbarrow would fit under the door so that it was easy to remove the ash.

Something to pay particular attention to is the water chemistry. The water will need to be treated to keep from corroding. The people you get your boiler from should be able to halp with this. In some areas of the country the water is very corrosive and people are installing stoves made entirely of stainless steel.


I hope this helps, Joe

[Bill Grumbine]

Howdy everyone

We just got back from checking out two different manufacturers, Central Boiler and Heatmor. We went in with a lot of questions, and with the information we had from what has been posted here, plus what I have read other places on the web, I don't think either guy was blowing a lot of smoke (ouch that hurt!). :p

With either unit I can have it hooked up with my oil furnace so that the oil burner will kick on if the temperature drops to a certain point - i.e. if no one is home to feed the wood furnace, or I am sick in bed, or whatever. At this point I am leaning towards the Heatmor for a couple of reasons. First, the Heatmor can burn coal as well as wood if we equip it so when we buy it. The CB cannot burn coal. We are very close to the anthracite coal region here in PA, so coal is plentiful and not real expensive. I could get one that would burn corn, and there is a lot of that around here too, but it is either/or, and coal is a better fuel than corn around here. Second, it has an ash pan which is below the wood burning chamber, making ash removal easier and faster. Third, it has a fan to force the draft, which means it will burn hotter faster, with less smoke. Finally, it has a closed loop system to prevent corrosion, and they also have a 10 yr warranty against corrosion.

It ain't a gonna be cheap though. How many of you need turning lessons? :eek: I think part of my lessons from now on are going to be the proper use of a chainsaw to harvest wood. "Yeah, just cut up that pile of wood over there first, and then we will start on that bowl." (hee hee hee)

Bill

[Jim Becker]

Does the piece of "firewood" I cut for you last night count??? :D

[John Shuk]

Bill,
I think this type of system can pay itself off pretty fast. Even if it takes a few years you can be more comfortable by keeping the thermostat set higher at no extra cost. What do you plan for hot water in the summer? My thoughts would be a tankless water heater. Of course you can continue to run the wood boiler. Do you know what the max distance they recommend from the house? I may still look into something like this.

[Gary Max]

Bill don't forget---Safe operation of a log splitter.----How to stack wood----How to sharpen a chainsaw. Heck you could work up a whole day class on making firewood.
Have a half price special if you run low on firewood.

[Bill Grumbine]

Bill,
I think this type of system can pay itself off pretty fast. Even if it takes a few years you can be more comfortable by keeping the thermostat set higher at no extra cost. What do you plan for hot water in the summer? My thoughts would be a tankless water heater. Of course you can continue to run the wood boiler. Do you know what the max distance they recommend from the house? I may still look into something like this.

Hi John

If this all goes through, we will burn oil for hot water in the summer. Since we plan on keeping the oil burner for backup and emergency work, it needs to be run, both to keep it in working order and to keep the fuel from degenerating and gumming up the works. Besides, it is too hot to feed a wood stove in the summer!

I have looked at tankless heaters in the past, especially with three daughters! :eek: My only options are propane and electric, since there are no natural gas lines here. Propane would be tough to install and it doesn't really have the BTUs I would like, and electric would cost a fortune to run. I was teasing my youngest, who loves those long hot showers, that she would be in charge of stoking the fire when she wanted to bathe. ;)

Bill

[Bill Grumbine]

Bill don't forget---Safe operation of a log splitter.----How to stack wood----How to sharpen a chainsaw. Heck you could work up a whole day class on making firewood.
Have a half price special if you run low on firewood.

Hi Gary

It is a Tom Sawyer sort of thing here, when it comes to machinery and barns and work and stuff like that. I was teasing people at the picnic last year that immediately following the Woodmizer demo there would be a lumber stacking demo in the barn, and I had more help than I could use! People seem to love working with machinery or in conditions that are exotic for them, like a log splitter on a 3 pt hitch. Good ideas for a curriculum!

Bill