Bandsaw shopping

[Rick Harding]

I am looking at upgrading to a larger bandsaw. I have been looking at the Grizzly G0514X2, the Minimax MM16, the Laguna LT14 x 14 SUV, and the Laguna LT18 3000 Series. I have been reading the former posts on the topic, but have not gotten comfortable enough yet to pull the trigger on one. I want to be able to resaw lumber up to at least 12" wide. I have not seen any of these machine in person and would really like to. The grizzly has some nice features and it sounds like they have good customer service, it sounds like several of you guys that have them have had table issues with the alignment pin. I live in the Huntsville, AL area and don't really have good access to dealers. The Nashville area Woodcraft does not have any of the Laguna's mentioned, Grizzly is about 11 hours away, and sounds like Minimax is even further. If any of you guys that have the above mentioned machines would like to show them off and live any close by I would be greatly appreciative. .

[Edward Oleen]

Frankly, I'm extremely biased, but I'd refer you to the Powermatic line: they have 14", 15", and 18" band saws. I've got the 14": the PWBS14-CS. It CAME with the Carter guides and tension release, a work light, and a nice little blower arrangement to get the dust away from the cut.

The only thing I don't like is the way they mounted the motor - it was tough to mount, but I solved the problem with a bottle jack and a shop-built cradle to hold the motor while I bolted it in and aligned it.

I've had it for a while now, and it has never bobbled once, aside from my not putting a drop of loctite on the set screws on the motor pulley, so it drifted a bit and the belt came off and I wondered why it wouldn't cut...

A solid machine, worth every cent I paid for it, and every drop of sweat I gave off while assembling it (by myself) and getting the tables aligned properly. I've used other manufacturers tools, and some of them are quite good. Some I've owned, some I've used at rent-by-the-hour shops, and some have been in friends shops. All in all I'll buy Powermatic.

[David Ragan]

Those are all great saws.

About 5 years ago, I had problems with the column of my Rikon flexing a little with tension @ 30-35K. Had to adjust the bottom wheel. Did not like that.

When I researched a new saw, the primary concern was the strength of the column so I could resaw @ high tension w/o a problem with any give whatsoever. I researched all saws under $5K. MM-16 won out. has heavy duty everything, and triple beam construction of spine/column.

Hard to go wrong with any of those. But the above was my process-and am totally satisfied (except, as I have said before, had to build a small base to bring the height up a little, and there were, in the past some issues with the switch on that model. I think they have been corrected.)

[James Nugnes]

My bandsaw purchases don't count really because I do not do enough veneer resawing to make it even part of my buying decisions for bandsaws. But if I intended doing enough for it to matter, I would probably have a hard time turning away from the MM16 of the saws you have mentioned. Then I guess maybe the Laguna LT18 3000 would be worth considering. Not sure that both the LT14 SUV and the LT18 3000 would actually be in the same running for the same buyer using the same set of criteria.

I almost wonder if the Laguna LT14 SUV or any of the previous Laguna 14's had found themselves in something of a market hole where it is too much saw for a typical 14 buyer but too little saw for just about anybody really deciding based on intending to do a bunch of serious veneer resawing. Maybe that is in part what prompted Laguna to the 14/twelve, trying to get closer to the middle of the heart if the 14 market. Certainly designing the 14 twelve such that it works fine using standard home utility 115 service speaks volumes to Laguna's thinking.

[Quinn McCarthy]

I have had a grizzly for 5 years and haven't had a problem yet. It is the 19" model with 12" rewsaw capability. The model is 514xx. I use it for resawing wood and cutting turning blanks. I use a laguna blade for resawing and not much to clean up from there.

Hope that helps.

Quinn

[Peter Kelly]

I am looking at upgrading to a larger bandsaw. I have been looking at the Grizzly G0514X2, the Minimax MM16, the Laguna LT14 x 14 SUV, and the Laguna LT18 3000 Series. I have been reading the former posts on the topic, but have not gotten comfortable enough yet to pull the trigger on one. I want to be able to resaw lumber up to at least 12" wide. I have not seen any of these machine in person and would really like to. The grizzly has some nice features and it sounds like they have good customer service, it sounds like several of you guys that have them have had table issues with the alignment pin. I live in the Huntsville, AL area and don't really have good access to dealers. The Nashville area Woodcraft does not have any of the Laguna's mentioned, Grizzly is about 11 hours away, and sounds like Minimax is even further. If any of you guys that have the above mentioned machines would like to show them off and live any close by I would be greatly appreciative. .For resawing I wouldn't put those other saws in the same class at the MM16. The next nearest competitor would be the Laguna (ACM) LT16 HD.

[Jim Andrew]

I have had a MM16 for 10 years, and have had no reason to upgrade. Was planning to buy a Delta 14", but after reading the creek for a while, decided it would be cheaper to just buy a good saw without having to move up in steps.

[Jared Walters]

Where do you even buy an MM16. Do you have to call the manufacturer and order from them? They're about $3000 right?

[Andrew Gold]

I'll weigh in, though I think the basics are covered above. The MM16 is the best saw listed, but it's also the most expensive, this seems to be one of the areas in life where you get what you pay for...

That said, I'm sure all of the models listed are great tools and would serve you well for a long time. One of the really hard things about specialty tools is that very few people have used multiple models for any length of time. When you ask a board like this, the answers will generally fall into, "I own x, and it's the best". Nothing wrong with that, but it's also worth considering how few people have owned several of the tools...

I'd buy the absolute best you can afford, and know you'll not have to replace it. The best will also hold value to a greater degree if you have to sell down the road.

[Rod Sheridan]

Rick, you're off to a great start with that selection, perhaps toss Felder into the mix as well.

Perhaps there are some owners in your area that would invite you over for a test run......Regards, Rod.

[Clay Fails]

+1 for LT16HD

[James Nugnes]

I have seen a couple of references to the Laguna LT16HD here. But Laguna only shows it as part of the Industrial Div. product line at about $3,500.00 list price. Not sure there is a way for a private individual to get to that saw and even if there is, I doubt he would pay any less than full list price for it. I suspect that an MM16 is actually easier to get to for a guy trying to equip his workshop. Could be wrong. But it would seem so.

[Fidel Fernandez]

+1 for Felder/Hammer

[Chris Merriam]

There's nothing hard about getting a LT16HD, just call Laguna up and speak with a salesperson. The pricing and options I got were within $200 of the MM16, so they were pretty much the same price (I went with MM).

[Rick Harding]

I have had a grizzly for 5 years and haven't had a problem yet. It is the 19" model with 12" rewsaw capability. The model is 514xx. I use it for resawing wood and cutting turning blanks. I use a laguna blade for resawing and not much to clean up from there.

Hope that helps.

Quinn
So what exactly is a 514xx? I am considering the 514x2 which has the CI trunnions, rak and pinion table tilt, and the foot brake.

[Rick Harding]

Did you see one before you bought it? If so, where?

[Vijay Kumar]

Rick I know Grizzly once had a referral program. If you called them up they will refer to someone in your are that has one; not sure if they still have that program. i am sure a call to the the manufacturers might lead you to referrals.

Vijay

[James Nugnes]

That's interesting. Wonder why Laguna has LT16HD listed on the Industrial side of the product line. Listing products as part of an "industrial line" and going out of their way to point out that the Dealer Products are only available through a Dealer Network usually implies that the company wants to exercise a level of direct control over who can buy one of the Industrial Product Line, factory direct only products. Frankly, does not make much sense to make the distinction and then just let anybody call up and buy one.

[Rick Harding]

They still do, but closest ones they had were in Florida.

[Joe A Faulkner]

Rick, I went through a similar process this past fall. I wound up going with the Laguna 18 3000. It costs about $500 more than the Grizzly, but offers more resaw height capacity and a 4 HP motor, and is a heavier machine. There is a reason it is $1,000 - $1,200 less than the MM16 or Laguna 18HD machine. It weighs 525 lbs - 45 lbs heavier than the 19" Grizzly 3HP model. I wanted the saw primarily for resawing and noted that some of the best resaw blades require high tension, including Laguna's Resaw King. Some folks noted that the Grizzly frame is not as rigid as the Laguna's and MM frames and flexes when trying to properly tension these "high" tension blades. I spoke to one guitar maker who was satisfied with his Grizzly but wished he'd spent the money on a Hammer, MM, Felder or Laguna. Rockler is currently offering the Laguna's at a 10% discount and I believe their shipping is only $99 - this is cheaper than Laguna can ship. If you have a Rockler near you, chances are they have an SUV on the floor you can check out; they may also have Jet and PM saws - most likely 14" models. The Laguna 18 3000 is very similar to the SUV - just a bigger saw with more HP. The blade guide adjustments on the Laguna are a little awkward in my opinion - especially the lower guides. For me, this saw at $2,100 was a step up from the Grizzly without taking the bigger step into the $3,200-$3,600 range for the Euro saws. If you want to read a review of the 18 3000, check out Gary Howorka's post on his purchase:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?212324-Laguna-LT18-3000-Review

[Tone Ricciardi]

I love my mm16 but i upgraded to the laguna euro guides and a driftmaster fence. might have worked for me to buy the laguna LT16HD in retrospect

[James Nugnes]

Just wondering if you are really referring to the "Laguna Guides" also known as the Laguna Ceramic Guides for Euro-guide replacement. I am thinking it is the Ceramic guides you are referring to here. I really like the Laguna Ceramic guides as do many others that either got those Guide Kits as original equipment on their bandsaws or upgraded to it.

[Joe A Faulkner]

Yes, I am referring to the Laguna Guides. I like the characteristics of the guides, the fact that they are long wearing, and run cool, but adjusting the guides, for me, especially the lower guides is a bit awkward. I know some band saw gurus suggest you remove the table every time you make a blade change, and with the table off, adjusting the lower guide is easy, but I find adjusting the lower guides with the table on to be a bit awkward. Fortunately since I'm using the saw primarily for resawing, I'm not changing the blades that often, and in all fairness, I'm guessing that adjusting the lower guides on most saws is somewhat cramped without removing the table.

[James Nugnes]

I can get my hands into my Laguna lower guides without removing the table. There are times when I am close to tilting the table to adjust the lower guides. Leaving the table level I have to get one finger from each hand onto the knobs to tighten or loosen them and there are times when I feel like I am short one hand making the adjustment as you have to make sure the guide stays in the right position while you tighten the knob. But I really like the guides themselves both upper and lower.

[Jim Becker]

Happy MM16 owner since 2004...and I have the older version with only 12" sawing height. If you ask your salesperson, they can generally provide you with references reasonably near you if you want to see a machine up close and personal.

[Shiraz Balolia]

If you are comparing to the Italian saws then these two models must be checked out:

http://grizzly.com/products/17-Ultimate-Bandsaw/G0636X

http://grizzly.com/products/19-Ultimate-Bandsaw/G0701

I have the G0701 in my shop and I smile every time I use it. Super heavy duty and will eat anything I throw at it. Of course, I put on a nice bi-metal blade on it.

[John C Bush]

I've had a Grizz 21" 5hp BS for 8+ years and have been very pleased with its performance. I keep a 1" Lenox MC resaw blade on most of the time and do lots of resawing. I have only needed more than the 14 1/2" resaw height a couple of times and get consistently good results with large stock. I had the chance to see both the MM and Laguna at a show and they are really nice machines, but as a hobbiest I feel the Griz line is a good value. I looked for a used Italian saw for quite a while and they never popped up so I went with the Griz and am quite happy with it. Good luck shopping.

[David Falkner]

Count me in on the Laguna 14 SUV side. I've had mine about 4 months and love it. I have the RK 1" blade and do resawing primarily. I just made a simple fence the other day for resawing and this saw is a true breeze to use. Plus their customer service has been outstanding!

Here's the fence I just made this week -
305642

And what I cut -
305643

[John R Allen]

If you are comparing to the Italian saws then these two models must be checked out:

http://grizzly.com/products/17-Ultimate-Bandsaw/G0636X

http://grizzly.com/products/19-Ultimate-Bandsaw/G0701

I have the G0701 in my shop and I smile every time I use it. Super heavy duty and will eat anything I throw at it. Of course, I put on a nice bi-metal blade on it.

How does the GO701 compare to the MM20? I'm very interested in this saw but currently you don't have a video covering it on your website, and finding reviews online for this model has proven difficult. I know it's less expensive than the Minimax but in my mind that isn't the only reason to consider the G0701. All I hear is that Italian bandsaws are the best but is that really true? Sorry to hijack this thread a little bit, but I've really been wanting more info on this bandsaw and it apprears that this thread has Mr. Balolia's attention.

In regard to the original question, I''m a little confused by the inclusion of the MM16 in the choices, and maybe even the LT 18. The Minimax is twice as much as the Grizzly and the LT 14, and more than a thousand more than the LT1800. If the budget isn't a consideration then I would recommend from the four choices listed to get the Minimax without question. From my own experience I think you can never have a big enough bandsaw, and you should always get the most bandsaw you can possibly can, but I guess my own personal confusion is does that actually mean it has to be Itialian?

[William A. Parker]

I looked at all the saws mentioned and ended up with the Agazani 20. I have owned it for 6 years. No repairs, I have been very happy and have never regretted the purchase. I resaw a lot of 12 inch Jatoba, when I cut oak, or eucalyptus it feels like pine.

[Chris Parks]

but I guess my own personal confusion is does that actually mean it has to be Italian?

Is there any other source of bandsaw that is not made in either Asia or Italy and is commonly available, perhaps Felder but not Hammer?

[Peter Kelly]

http://www.northfieldwoodworking.com/bandsaws/bandsaws.htm

If Hokubema / Panhans ever gets it together, German-made Agazzani (http://www.panhans.de/pan_en/index.php/safety-technology/band-saws/band-saw-guide) saws might someday make a comeback in North America...

[Erik Loza]

....but I guess my own personal confusion is does that actually mean it has to be Itialian?

I don't believe in telling folks what to buy but will say that I have a number of owners with MM16's that are 14 years old and that run just as good today as when they first bought them. Lots of options, do your research, be a smart buyer.

Erik Loza
Minimax

[Rick Harding]

I haven't notice a lever for releasing the tension. Does the MM16 have one or do you just have to turn the tension wheel when your done.

[Chris Merriam]

Lol I asked the same thing. None of the big saws have a lever, you just turn the wheel. Read a tip here to always turn it twice to detension, that way you can return to full tension easily. Turning the wheel is NOTHING like tensioning a 14in saw, it takes hardly any effort and only takes 5 seconds. I kept forgetting which way is tight/loose, because the tension wheel is mounted upside down, so I stuck a piece of tape on the front with an arrow. I also bend down and there's a cotter pin in the wheel axle, I use that to count my rotations.

[Glenn Kramer]

Another vote here for the MM16. I thought i'd be sorry for not getting the MM18, but no regrets. Did however add Carter ceramic guides which works out well. The MM16 is a very solid machine. Prior I owned a Laguna 16 made in Italy and a Rikon 14. Neither machine compares to the MM16.

[Rich Riddle]

I followed Erik and Dave's advice a couple of years ago and purchased the largest saw both practical for the shop and budget-friendly. Too many woodworkers here buy and sell tools every few years as the progress up the ladder. Tools like jointers from a 4", 6", 8", 10", 12", etc. Get the largest you will utilize. I really liked the MM16 but ended up with a 24" band saw. Glad it's in the shop.

[Jim Matthews]

I can't really help more concerning saw choice.

I would suggest looking into hidden costs -
if you like a particular type of guide, those are expensive to replace.

Delivery charges can be steep, for the last 1/4 mile getting to your door.

If you can't just roll off the truck and into your shop,
you'll need a rigger, or assistance hoisting it into place.

I bought a second hand MM20 and the shipping, handling and palleting costs
consumed nearly all the savings over buying direct from the manufacturer,
who would have set it upright in my garage.

Unless you're going to try resawing with 1" blades through really dense materials -
all of these saws will have reserve capacity which you won't use, but will pay for.

My vote - one of the Laguna saws with a Driftmaster fence.

[Shiraz Balolia]

I haven't notice a lever for releasing the tension. Does the MM16 have one or do you just have to turn the tension wheel when your done.

Almost every Grizzly band saw except for one 14" model have quick blade release levers

http://grizzly.com/catalog/2015/main/115?p=115

Another feature often overlooked, that I like on the larger saws, is the geared table tilt. This makes tilting those large tables easy. Plus, when locked, provides incredible support for heavy work pieces.

http://i58.tinypic.com/20ker8g.jpg

[Erik Loza]

I haven't notice a lever for releasing the tension. Does the MM16 have one or do you just have to turn the tension wheel when your done.

It's not really a useful feature on any of the Italian saws. They have flat wheels and tires, so you simply take a few (like 2-3) twists out of the tension crank and then walk away. When you come back into the shop, just crank the handwheel back up again and you're good to go.

Erik Loza
Minimax

[Chris Merriam]

Speaking of table tilt, that is one thing to keep in mind. With the MM16 you can't tilt the table to an extreme angle without running in to the side of the sacrificial insert, you will need different inserts for different angles. I "think", not positive, that some of the other saws pivot on a central axis and don't have this limitation. I'm not an MM16 expert yet, but this is my understanding so far.

[Keith Outten]

I followed Erik and Dave's advice a couple of years ago and purchased the largest saw both practical for the shop and budget-friendly. Too many woodworkers here buy and sell tools every few years as the progress up the ladder. Tools like jointers from a 4", 6", 8", 10", 12", etc. Get the largest you will utilize. I really liked the MM16 but ended up with a 24" band saw. Glad it's in the shop.

Like Rich I got tired of trading up over the years and finally purchased a 22" band saw that has more capacity then I need on any given day. Its nice to finally have the saw I wanted twenty years ago and my last band saw.

[Erik Loza]

Speaking of table tilt, that is one thing to keep in mind. With the MM16 you can't tilt the table to an extreme angle without running in to the side of the sacrificial insert, you will need different inserts for different angles. I "think", not positive, that some of the other saws pivot on a central axis and don't have this limitation. I'm not an MM16 expert yet, but this is my understanding so far.

Yes, this is correct. ^^^^ The Centauros (MM-series) use a totally different style of table tilting unit than any other bandsaw. It's more like a giant steel hinge and due to this, does not pivot on the blade centerline.

We used a more conventional cast iron trunion setup on the first generation of MM-series but in getting feedback from owners when the first major re-design of the MM happened (around 2004), the overwhelming response was that folks preferred "faster" and "more convenient" to "over the blade centerline", so that's what we did. This design change happened during the height of the "Resaw Wars" between us and another major dealer of Italian saws at the time, where bowl turning was just becoming the rage, and guys wanted as big a resaw capacity as possible on a given size of bandsaw.

The change in table design allowed us to address two issues. The first was obviously the speed issue: Previously, you had to use a wrench to loosen the main locking bolt for the trunion in order to tilt the table. The new design requires no tools. There is a large lever that you simply move with the heel of your palm, tilt the table where you want, then snug back up. That's what the bowl turners were asking for.

The second issue was the fact that now, guys were wanting to put huge sections of log on the table and as we all know, bandsaw tables will always have the issue that no matter how big or sturdy the table is, they have a giant cleft right down the middle and the table wants to do it's own thing when you put a 30lb. chunk of log on the outboard side. If you flip over the cast iron table of a Centauro, you will see that the mounting bolt spacing is very broad when compared to the older style. This lets us better stabilize the table when there are heavy loads on it.

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i315/erikloza/Mini%20Max%20Bandsaw%20Works/MMtrunionunit.jpg
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i315/erikloza/Mini%20Max%20Bandsaw%20Works/MM16lowercabinet.jpg

For folks who do a lot of work with a tilted table, your best bet would be to just make some inserts out of ply or that white plastic stuff. That's what most of my owners have done in the past. Hope this helps clarify.

Erik Loza
Minimax

[Peter Quinn]

Regarding the minimax 16 table tilt....as a joinery guy, not a bowl turning guy, I'm not jumping up and down about that table tilt. Any angle much past 10 degrees and you loose the insert in the table, and making a custom angled insert is more work than I need during a given days production, that big lever requires enough torque to snug it up firm that releasing it takes a bit more than "a gentle bump of your palm" unless you are Bruce Lee, think dead blow. I actually prefer the control of a big nut and a wrench. I wish they had a rack and pinion upgrade retro available, like the SCMI shapers where you can pick your features and upgrades. Imagine if your TS trunnion just had a handle that lets it loose like a bench top job site saw, and you had to reach in there and hold up the cast iron trunnion to adjust it, sound fun? Another nice feature of the off center design is when you do loosen that handle...whamo, the table flops to the heavy side, and its a good solid heavy table, which is a great asset when resawing large pieces, but not so nice when you are trying to nail a specific angle like for large dovetails or post caps. A geared trunion like the grizzly saw above is such a vast improvement over that MM design its hard to express. The geared trunnion is controlled and perfect, the other you feel like some italian engineer has you on a hidden camera where they watch to see how frustrated they can make you.

The best part about the off center table is the crappy manual that completely forgets to mention this feature, or almost any features really. My 5 year old could have written a better manual. I've been hearing they are working on a better manual for 7 years now...must be a master piece. The present one looks like some chicken scratch after though that was developed in a 15 minute coffee break. So the first time a guy tilts the table, and that big old heavy table drops to it's heavy side, it pretty much bends and kinks the blade you have on, which subsequently never works right again. I didn't see it coming, Nice upgrade there, luckily its not a mistake you are likely to make twice. I'm not making this stuff up.

The MM16 is a really solid machine IME, but its like a stripped down F350 to me. Solid frame, powerful motor that takes anything you throw at it...completely lacking in amenities. Table tilt...lets call it completely manual. That armadillo blade guard that makes blade changes o so special, needs work. The fence....has SCMI noticed that pretty much every other BS maker has started offering hi-low format type fences like panel saws? First time you attempt to rip something narrow and realize the guides can't be lowered any closer than 4" or so at less than 3" rip due to interaction between fence and guides, left scratching head. I use this thing to blank out FF and door parts from 5/4 maple I'd rather not split on a TS, so I'm doing a lot of 2 1/2"-3 1/4" rips. Clearly a work around can be fashioned from plywood, but why should I have to on a saw of this caliber? How much do you have to spend to get a saw that is both smooth, powerful and easy to use? Laguna has the fence thing figured out. Why do I mention all this? So you will be aware of it, and I keep hearing they listen, maybe the next rev will be heir master piece?

[Peter Quinn]

For folks who do a lot of work with a tilted table, your best bet would be to just make some inserts out of ply or that white plastic stuff. That's what most of my owners have done in the past. Hope this helps clarify.

Erik Loza
Minimax

Thats a better idea in theory than in practice. With the table tilted how exactly do you cut the kerf precisely to make a ZCI? At a given angle the insert has to drop say 12-15MM into the table, as it drops it moves away from the blade relative to the position of cutting flush with table, so the slot as cut with table tilted wont ever line up once the insert is dropped in. This leaves the operator to either figure out the off set through trial and error, or just make a big hole for the blade, or as I have done in in a piece of 1/4" plywood to close the throat, but this has the effect of changing the precise distance between fence and blade and is very problematic if doing dovetail where the fence may be moved during the operation.

[dirk martin]

I own both the MM24 from Minimax, and Grizzly's 24" bandsaw.
We resaw alot...daily.
We also saw hundreds of bowl blanks on both these saws, and thus we're pounding the tables with hundred pound chunks of wood.

Both saws perform equally well.

My only issues are:
The Grizzly has much better dust collection.
The Minimax rains sawdust down on the operator, constantly....and you end up looking like a powder'd doughnut.

Some may say it's no big deal detensioning the blade, by turning a wheel, on the minimax.
But, compared to the Grizzly....it is. Swinging Grizzly's lever, is so much nicer, and easier.

Both saws handle everything we throw at them. I've resawed 12" Purpleheart on both, and cut huge hundred pound bowl blanks on both.

Oh, and one other thing....
We have to change a wheel tire about once every 9 months on the Minimax. Either the top or the bottom (usually the top), will wear out.
We've never had to change a tire on the Grizzly in 7 years. This may be from not de-tensioning the Minimax as religiously as we do the Grizzly.....there again, that handy de-tensioning lever on the Grizzly comes into play.

[David Kumm]

Another choice, my favorite but not for everyone.306058306059 Dave

[Erik Loza]

...Thats a better idea in theory than in practice...

I sold an MM16 to a gentleman once and shortly after receiving it, he called and told me the machine was "useless" to him. Apparently, he was a boat builder and for his particular project, there was some sort of bevel-type cut that would change angle over the length of the cut. Obviously, you need a table that tilts on the blade centerline his but my response to him was, "Why didn't you ask me that question before you took delivery of the saw?". His reply was to the effect of "Didn't every bandsaw operate this way?". Point being: What is the intended use for the machine someone is planning to buy? If the gentleman had told me that on the front end, I would have suggested either the S45N, which does tilt on the blade centerline, or just buy a different bandsaw altogether.

I don't disagree with you in the least but will tell you that we build what customers want and statistically speaking, guys are not buying MM16's to do dovetails with. They're buying them to rip big stuff or do veneers and I don't get concerns or complaints about the table tilt. Hope this makes sense.


...The Minimax rains sawdust down on the operator, constantly....

Are you using the black plastic plugs for the two holes in the top of the upper cabinet? There is indeed a huge plume of sawdust if you don't.


...We have to change a wheel tire about once every 9 months on the Minimax... This may be from not de-tensioning the Minimax as religiously as we do the Grizzly...

Yep!

Erik Loza
Minimax

[Chris Parks]

The best part about the off center table is the crappy manual that completely forgets to mention this feature, or almost any features really. My 5 year old could have written a better manual. I've been hearing they are working on a better manual for 7 years now...must be a master piece. The present one looks like some chicken scratch after though that was developed in a 15 minute coffee break.

It must be a European/Italian thing. I am involved in Auto Racing and an Italian company that produces data loggers has the same problem and has never produced a manual worth reading in the fifteen years I have been using their product.

[Erik Loza]

It must be a European/Italian thing. I am involved in Auto Racing and an Italian company that produces data loggers has the same problem and has never produced a manual worth reading in the fifteen years I have been using their product.

No kidding! Though the SCMi/Minimax manuals are actually quite good. It's the Centauro manuals that are truly terrible.

I think part of the issue is expectation: Lots of folks are expecting a manual that has step-by-step instructions and clear photos and that's just not the European style. I've worked for both major manufacturers of Euro machinery that is sold here in the US and will tell you that both their/our manuals are the same: Some instructions that you must decipher, since English is not the native language, then many explosion diagrams and parts lists.

Erik Loza
Minimax

[Chris Parks]

Eric, I found the manual for my MM saw quite passable but the assembly instructions for my Hammer slider simply did not exist for all intents and purposes. I am told in Europe they are not necessary as nearly all saws are delivered and installed by the seller. That does not stop the national distributor taking the initiative and producing documentation suitable for their market and it has always astounded me that it does not happen, or not in my experience anyway.

[Erik Loza]

Eric, I found the manual for my MM saw quite passable but the assembly instructions for my Hammer slider simply did not exist for all intents and purposes. I am told in Europe they are not necessary as nearly all saws are delivered and installed by the seller. That does not stop the national distributor taking the initiative and producing documentation suitable for their market and it has always astounded me that it does not happen, or not in my experience anyway.

The US (and perhaps AUS...) in unique in this way, indeed.

My wife and I bought a brand new Mini Cooper last year. One of my first questions to the dealer was, "Where can I buy a hard copy of the factory service manual?". He seemed puzzled by my question, since all the maintenance was covered by the dealership, so asked the techs. Apparently, all their service literature is online through a site only available to dealers. Interesting...

Erik Loza
Minimax

[dirk martin]

Are you using the black plastic plugs for the two holes in the top of the upper cabinet? There is indeed a huge plume of sawdust if you don't.

Erik Loza
Minimax

Mine never came with these plugs, of which you speak, so we keep those holes covered with duct tape.
The Grizzly has 2 dust ports, and my minimax only 1. Seems to make a big difference in dust control.

[James Nugnes]

Erik being Erik, I am guessing if he can, he is likely going to try to take care of that.

[Jim Wheeler]

Is there any other source of bandsaw that is not made in either Asia or Italy and is commonly available, perhaps Felder but not Hammer?


Of course, there are always Tannewitz saws. http://www.tannewitz.com/ :)


Jim

He who welds steel with flaming pine cones may accomplish anything!​

[Erik Loza]

Mine never came with these plugs, of which you speak, so we keep those holes covered with duct tape.
The Grizzly has 2 dust ports, and my minimax only 1. Seems to make a big difference in dust control.

Where precisely is the dust coming from, if I can ask? Just curious because I have not personally experienced that in saws which have the plugs in place or have intact weatherstripping on the doors is intact.

Erik Loza
Minimax

[Peter Kelly]

Of course, there are always Tannewitz saws. http://www.tannewitz.com/ :)I'm pretty sure that some (if not all) of the Tannewitz bandsaws are made in Italy by ACM now. If you want to buy new, I think the only American manufacturer left for wood-cutting vertical bandsaws is Northfield.

[David Kumm]

Tanny's Advantage series steel saws are italian, their power series come from Taiwan. They still will make a cast iron saw- last I heard. Northfield makes a 27,32 and 36" saw here. Bandsaws are pretty simple machines. If the frame is stout, the wheels are heavy and balanced, and the motor is quality a good saw can be made anywhere. Poor quality control is a bigger problem than manufacturing complexity. Dave

[dirk martin]

Where precisely is the dust coming from, if I can ask? Just curious because I have not personally experienced that in saws which have the plugs in place or have intact weatherstripping on the doors is intact.

Erik Loza
Minimax


Most of it is constantly sifting down the collapsible column (not sure the name of it....you know, the adjustable column the top set of bearings is connected to). That tells me that too much dust is getting into the upper part of the saw, which makes me believe my lower dust deflector is not in place, or my dust vacuum is weak....neither of which, is the case....so I dunno. Since the operator is standing right there, while resawing, the dust builds up on the table significantly, and a high quality face mask is a must, plus it's uncomfortable if your collar isn't tight. Now, we always resaw wearing a turners smock. I'll check the weatherstripping.....

[Chris Parks]

Most of it is constantly sifting down the collapsible column (not sure the name of it....you know, the adjustable column the top set of bearings is connected to). That tells me that too much dust is getting into the upper part of the saw, which makes me believe my lower dust deflector is not in place, or my dust vacuum is weak....neither of which, is the case....so I dunno. Since the operator is standing right there, while resawing, the dust builds up on the table significantly, and a high quality face mask is a must, plus it's uncomfortable if your collar isn't tight. Now, we always resaw wearing a turners smock. I'll check the weatherstripping.....

Throw the weather stripping in the bin if you want as all it does is prevent good dust extraction. The problem with bandsaws and extraction of dust is there is no way for air to get into the cabinet therefore air can't be extracted. On mine as a temporary measure I cracked the door and wedged it open to allow the air to be replaced and all the dust suddenly went into the extractor. Why do manufacturers insist on making the cabinets air tight when the exact opposite is needed is beyond me.

[Rick Harding]

So what are your thoughts on the Laguna 18 3000 now that you have it. Can you tension the Resaw King? What kind of resawing have you done?

[Jim Becker]

Thats a better idea in theory than in practice. With the table tilted how exactly do you cut the kerf precisely to make a ZCI? At a given angle the insert has to drop say 12-15MM into the table, as it drops it moves away from the blade relative to the position of cutting flush with table, so the slot as cut with table tilted wont ever line up once the insert is dropped in. This leaves the operator to either figure out the off set through trial and error, or just make a big hole for the blade, or as I have done in in a piece of 1/4" plywood to close the throat, but this has the effect of changing the precise distance between fence and blade and is very problematic if doing dovetail where the fence may be moved during the operation.

You cut the kerf in the insert by manually turning the bottom wheel with your hand with the blade tensioned (and the saw unplugged!) as you slowly slip the insert into it's slot. The saw does the work and the angle is "perfect"...

[Fabio Calzavara]

Hi!
Why you don't consider a MD Dario? It's Italian and is distributed in the US and Canada for more than 20 years. Very versatile !
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYYwr2AV_23WNV4HuBnXe2g

[Jim Wheeler]

I'm pretty sure that some (if not all) of the Tannewitz bandsaws are made in Italy by ACM now. If you want to buy new, I think the only American manufacturer left for wood-cutting vertical bandsaws is Northfield.

I was thinking of the GHE models, which are the traditional cast iron. Though who knows - perhaps the castings are farmed out to China like everything else these days. In any event a new Tanney would be way above my meager budget.

http://www.tannewitz.com/tannewitz-products/wood-bandsaws/GHE-(1)/GHE.aspx (http://www.tannewitz.com/tannewitz-products/wood-bandsaws/GHE-(1)/GHE.aspx)

Jim

He who welds steel with flaming pine cones may accomplish anything!​

[Erik Loza]

Most of it is constantly sifting down the collapsible column (not sure the name of it....you know, the adjustable column the top set of bearings is connected to). That tells me that too much dust is getting into the upper part of the saw, which makes me believe my lower dust deflector is not in place, or my dust vacuum is weak....neither of which, is the case....so I dunno. Since the operator is standing right there, while resawing, the dust builds up on the table significantly, and a high quality face mask is a must, plus it's uncomfortable if your collar isn't tight. Now, we always resaw wearing a turners smock. I'll check the weatherstripping.....

Weird: I get "some" dust on the tabletop but nowhere near what I would call excessive. We had a big Oneida 5hp for all the machines.

Erik Loza
Minimax

[Peter Kelly]

I was thinking of the GHE models, which are the traditional cast iron. Though who knows - perhaps the castings are farmed out to China like everything else these days. In any event a new Tanney would be way above my meager budget.

http://www.tannewitz.com/tannewitz-products/wood-bandsaws/GHE-(1)/GHE.aspx (http://www.tannewitz.com/tannewitz-products/wood-bandsaws/GHE-(1)/GHE.aspx)

JimThat same model shouldn't be too difficult to come by as used. There's curently an excellent 36" Tannewitz for $3,500 on Philadelphia CL at the moment. Much more machine than most people will ever need so the prices I've seen usually aren't too bad.

[Erik Loza]

There look to be two big Tannewitz coming up for auction in this thread Keith posted....

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?227142-Machinery-Auction-February-25th-2015

Erik Loza
Minimax

[John Sincerbeaux]

I looked at all the saws mentioned and ended up with the Agazani 20. I have owned it for 6 years. No repairs, I have been very happy and have never regretted the purchase. I resaw a lot of 12 inch Jatoba, when I cut oak, or eucalyptus it feels like pine.

You beat me to it.
I have had an Agazzani 20 for about 10 years. Zero complaints only praises. Paired with a Lennox 1" carbide blade