Drying bowl blanks with Denatured Alcohol Question

[Craig Coney]

Is there a good reference to research drying wood with Denatured Alcohol to replace water?

How long is the DNA useful for?

Does the DNA absorb the water?

Thanks
C

[Thom Sturgill]

Can't give you a reference, but yes, the DNA replaces a portion of the water in the cells.

There are two different sources of water in the wood, in the cells and between the cells. The latter leaves quickly, while the former called 'bound water' causes most of the shrinkage problems. By replacing a portion of the bound water with something that will itself leave easily drying is accelerated. Supposedly the Alcohol will carry even more water out with it when it evaporates. Or so the theory goes.

Yes the DNA left in the tank is now diluted with water and will not work as well next time requiring the addition of more DNA to the tank. Short of re-distilling the DNA I do not know of any way to remove the water.

[Scott Hackler]

Every time you soak a blank you are doing 2 things. Replacing some of the water in the wood, like Thom said and lowering the overall level of liquid in the soaking bin. That "liquid" that used to me 100% Dna is now diluted some, but not a bunch. I just keep adding more Dna once the level of liquid gets noticeably low. Hate to admit this but I usually find out how strong it still is when grabbing a rough out from the liquid and "finding" that cut on my finger from from the burning sensation!

Either way, I have never noticed "weak" Dna not doing it's job. I soak my roughouts for 24 hr min and fruit wood for 36 hr or more.

[Steve Schlumpf]

Craig, you can do an advanced search for Denatured Alcohol and come up with a lot of valuable info. This thread (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?125579-Alcohol-Bowl-Blank-Drying&highlight=Denatured+Alcohol) provides links that should answer your questions.

[Don McClure]

I have been using the DNA method of drying for 5+ yrs with good success (95%). I have a large tub with a lid of DNA ( aprox. 10+ gallons) that I put the green bowls in for a minimum of 24 hrs, but have left them in for 10+ days. Take them out and let flash dry for 1-2hrs then coat with Anchor seal both inside and out plus the rim ( which is round). Next I bag them for 2-3 months in grocery store brown paper bags. Then I will air dry them for 2-3 more months before dong the second turning. I do not use a hydrometer to check the % denatured alcohol but simply add a gallon or two of fresh to the batch. The alc.. mixture will get stained from dark woods, but does not penetrate lighter woods. The cheapest place o buy DNA is from a pant supply house in 5 gallon cans.

[Scott Hackler]

Don, going off my experience.... you might want to do a test bowl, without the Anchorseal. I soak, dry, and wrap the blanks up in 2 layers of newspaper with some holes poked in the open part of the bowl, stack them on a low shelf away from the furnace vent in my climate controlled shop and my blanks are fully dried and ready to turn round in 4-6 weeks. 98% or so success rate. I am only mentioning this because you maybe doing a step too much and can shorten the dry time significantly. But like I said, do a test bowl first. Anchorseal drying is slow, from my experience. IE, log halves sitting outside in the shade can stay "wet" for over a year with only the ends painted. Just an idea.

[Dan Hintz]

Don, going off my experience.... you might want to do a test bowl, without the Anchorseal. I soak, dry, and wrap the blanks up in 2 layers of newspaper with some holes poked in the open part of the bowl, stack them on a low shelf away from the furnace vent in my climate controlled shop and my blanks are fully dried and ready to turn round in 4-6 weeks. 98% or so success rate. I am only mentioning this because you maybe doing a step too much and can shorten the dry time significantly.

Agreed.....

[Craig Coney]

Thanks for the info. I'll be trying this method in the next few weeks.

[terry mccammon]

While we are on the subject. It is just my personal paranoia or is there a legitimate concern about a covered vat of DNA sitting around the shop in terms of fire hazard? I have wondered about this for years and frankly never indulged because of this. For the record the finishing flammables in my shop are in a cabinet marked flammable. Obviously a lot of folks do this and obviously their house/shop has not burned down. Thoughts?

[Scott Hackler]

My Dna "vat" is an old large shop vac bucket with a plywood lid I made to sit on top of it. I also tacked a bicycle inner tube around the perimeter of the lid to provide something of a seal and lay a trash bag over the bucket prior to placing the lid on and then sit a cider block on it. It is as sealed as I can make it and feel pretty confident that even a shower of sparks from a grinder wouldn't make it inside. That being said, it is always rolled under a counter top and there is no "grinding" going on inside my shop. 1000% safe feeling about it.

[steven carter]

[QUOTE=terry mccammon;2367148]While we are on the subject. It is just my personal paranoia or is there a legitimate concern about a covered vat of DNA sitting around the shop in terms of fire hazard? I have wondered about this for years and frankly never indulged because of this. For the record the finishing flammables in my shop are in a cabinet marked flammable. Obviously a lot of folks do this and obviously their house/shop has not burned down. Thoughts?[/QUOTE

Not sure what the flashpoint is on DNA, but it is lower than you would might think. I made an alcohol stove once for backpacking and used to wish DNA was a little more flammable when trying to light the stove. I keep mine in an old granular chlorine bucket with ratcheting lid. Don't really ever change it out, just add more DNA when the level goes down. Current batch is probably 4 or 5 years in the making, and never really noticed any difference in its efficacy.

[Ron Borowicz]

Craig, you can do an advanced search for Denatured Alcohol and come up with a lot of valuable info. This thread (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?125579-Alcohol-Bowl-Blank-Drying&highlight=Denatured+Alcohol) provides links that should answer your questions.
Steve, I followed this thread and see reference in a number of spots to a "Alcohol Percentage Graph and Table". Apparently this graph and table has been removed. I'm curious if anyone has a copy of this and can post it or send it to me. Thanks!

[Steve Schlumpf]

Ron, no idea why the chart was removed. Best bet is to contact David directly through his website: http://www.woodnheart.com/

[Brad Simmons]

Please post your findings if you don't mind.

[robert baccus]

With all due respect, home loving, home cooking, California and DNA are all overrated yeah.

[Len Mullin]

With all due respect, home loving, home cooking, California and DNA are all overrated yeah.

Robert, with all due respect towards you, I personally feel a bit sorry for you. To make a statement like you have here seems to make me think that, you've never had some good old country loving. As for home cooking, I invite you to come to my place and you'll not get better cooking anywhere. Be it desserts, main courses, or snacks, my wife can satisfy anyone's taste buds and send them away well fed. As for Cali, I don't know what to say except that I wish they would stop making so many silly laws that other states think they need to follow no matter how dumb the laws are. As per the DNA, I don't think that you've ever tried using it, or, you would think differently. The offer for a free meal still stands, anytime your in the area, drop by for a feast. Just call in advance, so we can start cooking. I don't mean to offend, I'm just posting how I feel about your feelings.
Len

[robert baccus]

The first two were humor--Cal. and DNA were not. I first tried using Dna 20 years ago. About 50% cracked despite all care. Now I just watch newer turners in our club crack up pretty wood and laugh. It's just too inconsistent for me. Laugh daily -. especially at your self--

[Scott Hackler]

Come on fellas, keep the discussion friendly and on topic....please.

Everyone has their methods and you should experiment and use the method that works for you and your geographic location. Dna soaking works 98% of the time for me and I have fully dried rough outs (with no cracks) in 4-6 weeks. If it didn't work and work quickly... believe me.... I wouldn't do it!

[robert baccus]

I get very few cracks also using endseal. I also eat a lot of crawfish and gumbo.

[Scott Brandstetter]

I find this thread intriguing. In regards to safety, do I have it correctly thinking if I got a large bucket with a good lid, I should be fine. Is there any reason not to keep it outside the shop, for additional safety?

[Scott Hackler]

The only reason I can think of to not keep it outside might be a pet or child either opening, getting knocked over or dislodging the lid and exposing the kids or pets to the Dna and/or if that happened it will evaporate.

You could always get a 5 gal bucket with a sealing lid and store it in there, where ever you want. Dna doesn't affect plastic (my shop vac bucket is plastic and it has had Dna in it for 4-5 years)

[Dan Hintz]

You could always get a 5 gal bucket with a sealing lid and store it in there, where ever you want. Dna doesn't affect plastic (my shop vac bucket is plastic and it has had Dna in it for 4-5 years)

While cleaning up the basement for my recent move, I found an old 5-gallon bucket that I filled 1/3rd full of DNA about 2 years ago and forgot about... still 1/3rd full. A good seal will prevent any real evaporation.