Is it hard to make a Carcass Saw from a Grammercy kit?

[Frederick Skelly]

I didnt want to hijack the other thread to ask, but I see Grammercy sells a kit for their Carcass Saw. Its $140. Looks like it has everything except the handle and a split nut driver. The blade is already sharpened.

Ive never made a saw, but after seeing some of the stuff you folks have posted, my interest has been piqued. (Thanks Stewie - you just cost me a hundred and a half. :) ) Is there anything involved that would require more skill than a hand tool newbie like me would be likely to have? As I say, the blade is already sharp.

Thanks guys!
Fred

[Jude Kenny]

I've been at this hand tool lark for little over a year now and I made a saw last weekend. It isn't that hard. Rasping a shape takes a long time.

I took a look at the Gramercy instructions and they seem to cover the bases well. I didn't drill out the mortise for the spine, I just used a chisel.

The hardest part to get perfect is cutting the handle for the blade to slot in. Mine is close enough but I wouldn't call it perfect.

Once you get the blade and spine to fit to a rough handle, it is then down to shaping. Looks like the holes are already cut in the blade too, which can be difficult to do.

I would suggest you make a practice handle first on the Gramercy or even on a cheap saw.

I've reshaped clunker saws into less ugly saws so that kind of practice helps.

Here's my saw made from an old Disston spine, a Buck Bros donor blade and a lump of Brazilian Cherry scrap:304916

[Frederick Skelly]

Thanks Jude. Thats the kind of stuff I was looking for!
Fred

[Mike Brady]

He's right. The slot for the plate is very tricky to get straight and centered throughout the cut. There is little you can do once the cut drifts. The first one I made in walnut came out perfect. The next saw was to have a curly cherry handle and I ruined three handles before giving up. All were cut with the same setup: a rip saw plate set between two spacers clamped to a bench top. Maybe I'll try again this year.

[Frederick Skelly]

Thanks Mike!
Fred

[Stewie Simpson]

Fred. When you cut the saw blade slot in the handle, you need to make sure the width of the saw kerf is close to being the same width as the saw plate you are installing. That may require you to remove or reduce the set on the teeth of the backsaw you intend to use for this job. A machine vise will do this job easily enough. If you don't have one of those, you could always use a hammer over a flat steel surface, and gently tap the set out.

Start with a shallow kerf along the full length that will form the blade slot, before attempting to saw any deeper. A backsaw with no set should track more accurately around the curved cheek than a saw with set. Providing the teeth are reasonably sharp.

Stewie;

[Stewie Simpson]

He's right. The slot for the plate is very tricky to get straight and centered throughout the cut. There is little you can do once the cut drifts. The first one I made in walnut came out perfect. The next saw was to have a curly cherry handle and I ruined three handles before giving up. All were cut with the same setup: a rip saw plate set between two spacers clamped to a bench top. Maybe I'll try again this year.

Mike. You will find that most modern day saw makers no longer do the blade slot by hand.

Stewie;

[Stewie Simpson]

I notice Gramercy mention their backsaw teeth are hand filed. I guess they really mean the saw teeth are punched out using a Foley Machine, and then later sharpened with a 3 square file.:confused:

Stewie;

[Stewie Simpson]

I've been at this hand tool lark for little over a year now and I made a saw last weekend. It isn't that hard. Rasping a shape takes a long time.

I took a look at the Gramercy instructions and they seem to cover the bases well. I didn't drill out the mortise for the spine, I just used a chisel.

The hardest part to get perfect is cutting the handle for the blade to slot in. Mine is close enough but I wouldn't call it perfect.

Once you get the blade and spine to fit to a rough handle, it is then down to shaping. Looks like the holes are already cut in the blade too, which can be difficult to do.

I would suggest you make a practice handle first on the Gramercy or even on a cheap saw.

I've reshaped clunker saws into less ugly saws so that kind of practice helps.

Here's my saw made from an old Disston spine, a Buck Bros donor blade and a lump of Brazilian Cherry scrap:304916


Hey Jude. I don't think I have ever seen a backsaw handle with the top and bottom horns as long and as tapered as the handle you made up.

Stewie;

[lowell holmes]

Matt Cianci , in his video, describes a technique for cutting the blade slot in a handle using a pull saw.

Prepare a spacer board to lay flat on the bench top that will place a pull saw blade exactly in the middle of the handle blank. Clamp the saw and spacer board
to the bench and saw the slot by dragging the handle back an forth on the blade.

[Sean Hughto]

Matt Cianci , in his video, describes a technique for cutting the blade slot in a handle using a pull saw.

Prepare a spacer board to lay flat on the bench top that will place a pull saw blade exactly in the middle of the handle blank. Clamp the saw and spacer board
to the bench and saw the slot by dragging the handle back an forth on the blade.

Yes, this. Use the saws blade to cut's own slot in this manner. Works a charm.

I made a Gramercy DT. Hardest part was installing the brass back, but even that wasn't too bad. And it was one of their first kits many years ago - I think they have produced the backs in a new way now that make it even easier.
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3052/2942703239_f58725f808_z.jpg

[Mike Brady]

That's exactly the technique that did not work for me. The one using a pull saw might be different...I don't know. The problem I had was after the initial kerf for the slot was cut. Once I got about a 1/4" in, the saw plate developed a mind of it's own. This was in cherry. The walnut handle I made worked fine.
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee300/finefettle/IMG_1161_zpsb301334a.jpg (http://s234.photobucket.com/user/finefettle/media/IMG_1161_zpsb301334a.jpg.html)

[george wilson]

I sawed the slots for the blade in our .015" thick dovetail saws by hand. It was the only way to get that thin a cut. The thicker saws were sawn with a thin bandsaw blade against a fence. We had a special blade that we kept just for sawing those saw slots.

[Ron Bontz]

Hi all. It is difficult to find thin band saw blades, off the rack, that will cut anything less than an 0.025" kerf. Meat cutting band saw blades will cut approx. 0.025" kerf but are made from stainless and, of course, do not hold up very long. As mentioned, there are several ways of cutting that plate slot and all have their pros and cons. If you are making a saw with 0.020" plate, a 0.015" plate saw with set will work fine between two flat boards. Providing the two boards really are flat and equal thicknesses. You can even put the cart before the horse a little and file teeth into your plate without set. It is a slow process but works. A mistake commonly made is when people unknowingly pick up on the handle they are sliding back and forth across those plate teeth. Or too much pressure, forcing the teeth to go off course, following the grain. ( path of least resistance ). The plate can generate heat and deformation as well causing it to veer off. All from being in a hurry. It is just all those little things that can sneak up on you. Even power slit saws or band saws veer off at times, from too much pressure or just plain hard hardwoods. Patience is definitely a virtue on that aspect. Best of luck on the saw build.

[Frederick Skelly]

Fred. When you cut the saw blade slot in the handle, you need to make sure the width of the saw kerf is close to being the same width as the saw plate you are installing. That may require you to remove or reduce the set on the teeth of the backsaw you intend to use for this job. A machine vise will do this job easily enough. If you don't have one of those, you could always use a hammer over a flat steel surface, and gently tap the set out.

Start with a shallow kerf along the full length that will form the blade slot, before attempting to saw any deeper. A backsaw with no set should track more accurately around the curved cheek than a saw with set. Providing the teeth are reasonably sharp.

Stewie;

Thanks Stewie. My only other backsaws right now are the LV saws with composite type backs. Id hate to goof with the kerf on those. But I can see what you're saying, that the slot has to match the actual blade. I'll figure out how to do that.
Fred

[Frederick Skelly]

Matt Cianci , in his video, describes a technique for cutting the blade slot in a handle using a pull saw.

Prepare a spacer board to lay flat on the bench top that will place a pull saw blade exactly in the middle of the handle blank. Clamp the saw and spacer board
to the bench and saw the slot by dragging the handle back an forth on the blade.

Lowell, Sean,
Thanks. I was thinking there ought to be a way to use the actual blade and I could make something like this work. Appreciate the help!
Fred

[Frederick Skelly]

Hi all. It is difficult to find thin band saw blades, off the rack, that will cut anything less than an 0.025" kerf. Meat cutting band saw blades will cut approx. 0.025" kerf but are made from stainless and, of course, do not hold up very long. As mentioned, there are several ways of cutting that plate slot and all have their pros and cons. If you are making a saw with 0.020" plate, a 0.015" plate saw with set will work fine between two flat boards. Providing the two boards really are flat and equal thicknesses. You can even put the cart before the horse a little and file teeth into your plate without set. It is a slow process but works. A mistake commonly made is when people unknowingly pick up on the handle they are sliding back and forth across those plate teeth. Or too much pressure, forcing the teeth to go off course, following the grain. ( path of least resistance ). The plate can generate heat and deformation as well causing it to veer off. All from being in a hurry. It is just all those little things that can sneak up on you. Even power slit saws or band saws veer off at times, from too much pressure or just plain hard hardwoods. Patience is definitely a virtue on that aspect. Best of luck on the saw build.

Thanks for the response and the PM Mr. Bontz!

This is starting to look very tempting, because it sounds like I should be able to do it. Man, you guys already got me hooked on planes. Now Im gonna get hooked on backsaws too? Paul Cottingham was RIGHT (see signature line :) )

Thanks again to all of you! If I decide to do this I'll post the result.

All the best,
Fred

[Jim Koepke]

Fred,

Go for it. If you do not make a great handle the first time, you can make a new one.

One of my favorite saws was put together with a shop made handle and a not so great saw plate. Here is my post on the process:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?180712-Back-Saw-Build

If you get a good feeling using a plane you rescued and fixed up, using a saw you built feels even better.

jtk