Best Cabinet Saw for less than $2,000

[Nick Coffelt]

Hello, I'm curious what everyone's thoughts are for the best cabinet table saw for under $2,000. My requirements are mostly general and begginning to intermediate wood working. I enjoy making furniture (nothing overly complex) and cut a lot of rough saw stuff (have a lot of trees that I have processed). I'm trying to find a good table saw that can get me in the door and support my habit for the foreseeable future.

I've seen a lot fo brands that are familiar to me and I know to be quality, but which is preferred, which offers the most accessories for the best money?
Grizzley
Powermatic
Laguna
Jet
etc

Also willing to look at used saws, so if you have something that works great let me know and I'll see if I cant find one used on the bay or locally.

I appreciate the advise, thanks in advance for the replies.

[John Schweikert]

I think you will get a different answer from every person.

Basic questions, 120v or 220v needed? I'm quite happy and not hindered by a 1.75HP 120v saw, but the next guy may require a 3HP or higher on 220v.

Grizzly's hybrid table saws G0771 or G0715P are excellent bang for buck, with great customer service.
Laguna has a nice 1.75HP saw but their customer service is rated hit and miss.
I personally think Powermatic machines are over priced. Jet does make good machines (I'm very happy with my Jet jointer)
There are several Sawstop options in that price range with added safety if that is important to you as well.

[Nick Coffelt]

John, great info, this is right in line with what I was hoping for. I just would rather trust the opinions of those people here than the ones at online reviews where negative reviews are seldom helpful and most of the positive ones are from people who havent run the machine yet....

To answer your question, this is going in a dedicated wood shop with its own service, so 120V or 220V makes no big difference to me. Being single phase is though.

The Sawstops are really nice and I'd love to get one but I think the 1 3/4HP model is mid 2k...

[Brian Tymchak]

Nick, as John mentioned about SawStop, the first question you may want to answer for yourself (and maybe you have since you didn't mention it in your post) is whether you would really want or need the new blade break technology that SawStop brought to market. No other saw has it and if you decide you gotta have it, you might bump up your budget a bit and your search is done. There are some very passionate owners and some very passionate non-owners of SawStop and I'm not advocating a preference here on that to avoid starting a SawStop war in your thread. Just offering the thought to rule SS in or out early on might help your decision process.

[Keith Hankins]

Well 2k or close will buy one heck of a TS. You can find an older powermatic or delta for reasonable sum. I had the 3hp Griz 1023slx for 10+ years and it served me very well and it was reasonable (1500). If you can do 220 and I'd put it in if you don't have a circuit. However, I'd save just a little longer and get the sawstop, thats such a fantastic saw. Now I'm going to give you some other advice that other will disagree with, but you asked for it. I've owned all types of saws over my 30+ years, from cheapo table tops, to contractor, to multitool versions to cabinet saws. Don't fool with anything smaller than a real cabinet saw. You can get by with those just fine, but trust me you will want to upgrade each, till you get a CS. Further they have a very similar footprint to the lesser saws.

So either get a SS or get an old American piece of iron. Third would be the Griz. Thats my 2 cents worth, but that and a buck fifty will get you a cup of coffee.

[John Schweikert]

I do own the 1.75 PCS Sawstop. I find it an incredible machine, superb fit and finish and required no adjusting, everything was within .001". But I'm not here to push SS. I bought one to continue woodworking after a table saw injury last summer that removed unrecoverable flesh, nerves and blood flow, cut to the bone down the side on my right hand middle finger. 6 months to get it usable. Life long pain in the butt though to have a finger like that now. Daily therapy exercises from here on out.

Sawstops are expensive, all told, a 30 inch fence 1.75PCS with the swivel industrial base was close to $2800 from my local Woodcraft store. To me, that is a crazy amount of money. But it's that or I find another expensive hobby/craft. I do build some things for clients too.

Best of luck with your saw search.

If I had not had an injury, I would most certainly would have bought the Laguna or Grizzly hybrids. They were on my radar. I like those, good quality and good prices. Essentially those are a SS PCS in specs.

[Mike Tekin]

Great advise...and to add to this look at the Grizzly 690/691 - nice saw and starts at under 1300 - Laguna, Shop Fox (Grizzly related company), the new Oliver, Baleigh industrial, etc all sell basically the same saw so that should say something as far as quality at that price point



Well 2k or close will buy one heck of a TS. You can find an older powermatic or delta for reasonable sum. I had the 3hp Griz 1023slx for 10+ years and it served me very well and it was reasonable (1500). If you can do 220 and I'd put it in if you don't have a circuit. However, I'd save just a little longer and get the sawstop, thats such a fantastic saw. Now I'm going to give you some other advice that other will disagree with, but you asked for it. I've owned all types of saws over my 30+ years, from cheapo table tops, to contractor, to multitool versions to cabinet saws. Don't fool with anything smaller than a real cabinet saw. You can get by with those just fine, but trust me you will want to upgrade each, till you get a CS. Further they have a very similar footprint to the lesser saws.

So either get a SS or get an old American piece of iron. Third would be the Griz. Thats my 2 cents worth, but that and a buck fifty will get you a cup of coffee.

[Curtis Myers]

I would go for ease of use. Any table saw that incorporates tool-less insert/riving knife and easy blade changing.

[cody michael]

I bought a delta unisaw used for 350$. needed a little cleanup, but I see very nice ones in the 1000-2000$ range every day on craigslist. Look into that you may be able to pick up a saw that is a better value used.

[David Kumm]

2K will buy a used saw like a PM 66 and Unisaw but also a step up to a Delta Rockwell 12-14 or PM 72. Some in single phase but a $300 vfd will also make a cheap three phase machine work too. My first choice would be a used short stroke slider. I'm such a fan I've replaced my old saws with them. Used 51" Felder, Hammer, MM, or even old cast iron with a vfd. A short stroke slider that locks the slider down to work like a conventional but still crosscut 36" will spoil you forever. Not as easy to source but there are rewards to watching and learning. Dave

[Chris Padilla]

3 HP, 240 V Grizzly is the best bang for the buck, IMO. Steel City is supposed to be nice, too. These can be had for well under $2k.

I've been on the SawStop bandwagon for a long time until I realized that its price tag was reaching into slider territory and now I'm drooling over those....

[Cary Falk]

I would guess that you would not be able to get much of a new saw from Jet, PM, or Laguna for $2k. Probably only a hybrid. I have the Grizzly G1023RL cabinet saw and love it. I would never buy another saw without a riving knife. You conld probably go used if you don't care about a riving knife. Any one of the brands you listed will serve you well.

[Jeff Heath]

Older, American made Powermatic 66's are the stoutest in this class of saws. They have the heaviest cast iron trunnions of any cabinet saw, and were machined very well to be very accurate. Find one of these from the green or early gold color era, and make sure it's USA made. Some of the gold colored saws from the 90's started being made in Taiwann. Pass.

I've restored quite a few saws, and have seen the inner workings on many different manufacturer's saws. The 66's castings and arbor are the largest out there for a cabinet saw. I paid $350 for mine, and spent another $600 restoring it in missing parts, arbor an motor bearings ($100 total), paint, and a new Biesemeyer fence. Less than $1000 total invested. You can easily find a good one needing nothing for $1000 to $1500.

[Ole Anderson]

Brand new Grizzly 1023 is $1325 (+ shipping). Got one 15 years ago when they were going for about $850. Full 3 hp 220v cabinet saw. Centerpiece of any wood shop.

[Chris Padilla]

I got my 1023Z in 2000, Ole. I think it was right around a bit less than a grand then. 3 HP/240 V. I wish it would break so I can get a slider! LOL

[scott spencer]

It sort of depends on how you define "cabinet saw". The Griz G1023RL or G0690 are both great buys IMO....or some variation of them. Steel City might have an offering or two, but I don't think there's much else out there in a true 3hp industrial cabinet saw for < $2k. Lots of hybrid saws though.

[Cliff Polubinsky]

Nick,

Don't know where you're located but there is a Sawstop PCS 1.75 used on Woodnet for $1500. It's in the Columbu, OH area. I have that saw and am very pleased with it.

Cliff

[Chris Parks]

2K will buy a used saw like a PM 66 and Unisaw but also a step up to a Delta Rockwell 12-14 or PM 72. Some in single phase but a $300 vfd will also make a cheap three phase machine work too. My first choice would be a used short stroke slider. I'm such a fan I've replaced my old saws with them. Used 51" Felder, Hammer, MM, or even old cast iron with a vfd. A short stroke slider that locks the slider down to work like a conventional but still crosscut 36" will spoil you forever. Not as easy to source but there are rewards to watching and learning. Dave

This, there is no reason to consider anything else. Put an out feed table on a cabinet saw and it takes up about the same space. Seriously, used properly the Saw Stop is less safe due to the kick back problem all cabinet saws have built in to their genes.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Older, American made Powermatic 66's are the stoutest in this class of saws. They have the heaviest cast iron trunnions of any cabinet saw, and were machined very well to be very accurate. Find one of these from the green or early gold color era, and make sure it's USA made. Some of the gold colored saws from the 90's started being made in Taiwann. Pass.

I've restored quite a few saws, and have seen the inner workings on many different manufacturer's saws. The 66's castings and arbor are the largest out there for a cabinet saw. I paid $350 for mine, and spent another $600 restoring it in missing parts, arbor an motor bearings ($100 total), paint, and a new Biesemeyer fence. Less than $1000 total invested. You can easily find a good one needing nothing for $1000 to $1500.

This gets my vote as well. In Jeff's range of $1 - $1.5k, you can get one that will outlast you and your next-gen heirs, with the type of work you will be doing.

[Roy Turbett]

If you're going to buy new, pay the extra and go with a Sawstop. You won't be disappointed because the is well made and will hold its value. I have a 7 year old 5 hp model that I bought used last fall and can't speak to the performance of the entry level cabinet saw.

If you can't afford a Sawstop, buy a used Powermatic 66 or Delta Unisaw. They are easily found for less than $1,000 and are built as good or better than most new saws. The only drawback is they usually don't have a riving knife and the splitter/guard is frequently missing. But if you decide to upgrade to a Sawstop in the future, you won't lose very much money because they will have already depreciated. My 3 hp 21 year old Unisaw that I bought used depreciated $200 over the 17 years I owned it.

[Art Mann]

I have said this many times about buying used cabinet saws but I will repeat it in case the OP looks on Craigslist and gets disappointed. I looked for a used Powermatic 66 or a Unisaw for several years on Craigslist. Typically, there will be 1 or 2 per year on my local listing. These are typically priced higher than what you can buy a new equivalent Grizzly for. They are either junk or they sell in minutes. To see a good selection, I have to open my search radius to 100+ miles and it just isn't worth it to drive that far without knowing the real condition of the equipment. For some people, buying new is the only practical alternative.

[John Donhowe]

is less safe due to the kick back problem all cabinet saws have built in to their genes This is news to me. What specifically makes all cabinet more prone to kick back? And if it's in their genes, will that apply to future generations as well? Just curious.

[Chris Parks]

The wood when passing the rear of the blade can move and get trapped between the fence and the blade, the blade then propels the wood back to the operator and can cause serious injury. All US style cabinet saws have this as a basic design fault/problem and the SS is no exception. Have a read of a recent thread....

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?225977-North-American-vs-Euro-TS-Fences-and-Safety

[Mike Chalmers]

The wood when passing the rear of the blade can move and get trapped between the fence and the blade, the blade then propels the wood back to the operator and can cause serious injury. All US style cabinet saws have this as a basic design fault/problem and the SS is no exception. Have a read of a recent thread....

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?225977-North-American-vs-Euro-TS-Fences-and-Safety

Better stated, I believe, as all table saws, not just all cabinet saws.

[Brian W Smith]

If we were starting again.....I'd get a Delta RT40 and a short stroke slider.Which is basically what we have now(plus a cpl),although ours are flying different colours.And this coming from a dedicated,really don't care for a TS kind of shop.

[Dennis Aspö]

That's just a fence issue with cabinet saws and you can fix that with 3 pieces of plywood, glue and some screws and some varnish if you want it looking pretty. I just made that for my saw and I proceeded to ripping 40 meters of timber both straight and then a 45 degree bevel cut (made french cleats, lots of them).

The cabinet saw design is in my view superior for the small shop or hobbyist. More flexible, easy to make jigs for, with a sliding table it's the perfect multitasker and take on large sheets and wide pieces.

[Joe Leigh]

The wood when passing the rear of the blade can move and get trapped between the fence and the blade, the blade then propels the wood back to the operator and can cause serious injury. All US style cabinet saws have this as a basic design fault/problem and the SS is no exception. Have a read of a recent thread....

All Sawstop models, and all modern cabinet saws come with a riving knife that prevents the wood from contacting the blade as it passes, greatly reducing the possibility of kickback.

[Chris Parks]

greatly reducing the possibility of kickback.

But not eliminating it?

[Patrick Curry]

I have said this many times about buying used cabinet saws but I will repeat it in case the OP looks on Craigslist and gets disappointed. I looked for a used Powermatic 66 or a Unisaw for several years on Craigslist. Typically, there will be 1 or 2 per year on my local listing. These are typically priced higher than what you can buy a new equivalent Grizzly for. They are either junk or they sell in minutes. To see a good selection, I have to open my search radius to 100+ miles and it just isn't worth it to drive that far without knowing the real condition of the equipment. For some people, buying new is the only practical alternative.

I've found the same to be true. The PM66s or Unisaws I see on CL are $1500, and often a hundred or more miles away. That's a long drive for a 30 year old saw that may not turn out to be in the described condition. And then Grizzly is selling the GO1023s at a lower price, with warranty, and riving knife. They may not have as stout a trunion but I just don't see myself wearing one out in a hobby shop.

[Mike Hollingsworth]

3hp and riving knife and you'll have it forever.

[Will Boulware]

There was a Tannewitz U around here recently that sold for $1,500. Seller claimed it was 5 hp single phase, so it technically would have fit your criteria. Good beginner's saw! :D

I can't seem to out-work my old Craftsman 113 contractor's saw, so I'll quietly step away from this discussion.

[Keith Hankins]

But not eliminating it?


If you use the safety equipment pushsticks/blocks and do not defeat the machine equipment i.e. kickback paws. It won't happen. No Saw, slider or other is 100% but you can be safe with either and following the rules.

[Kent A Bathurst]

If you use the safety equipment pushsticks/blocks and do not defeat the machine equipment i.e. kickback paws. It won't happen. No Saw, slider or other is 100% but you can be safe with either and following the rules.

Or, stated the other way: Engineers cannot design machine safety features that a committed idiot cannot subvert. Darwin assures us that eventually these people will leave the gene pool.

[Kent A Bathurst]

To see a good selection, I have to open my search radius to 100+ miles and it just isn't worth it to drive that far without knowing the real condition of the equipment. For some people, buying new is the only practical alternative.


All true. Depends on the person, I'd guess: witness my 1100 mile round trip for a 30 year old DP. Not many of that particular breed come up, and I had it fixed in my mind that was the model I wanted. I was confident in the condition, though - so I knew it woud not be a dry hole.

[Jeff Heath]

I have said this many times about buying used cabinet saws but I will repeat it in case the OP looks on Craigslist and gets disappointed. I looked for a used Powermatic 66 or a Unisaw for several years on Craigslist. Typically, there will be 1 or 2 per year on my local listing. These are typically priced higher than what you can buy a new equivalent Grizzly for. They are either junk or they sell in minutes. To see a good selection, I have to open my search radius to 100+ miles and it just isn't worth it to drive that far without knowing the real condition of the equipment. For some people, buying new is the only practical alternative.

Well, I'm having different results than you, but perhaps it's due to geographical location. I'm 60 miles west of Chicago, and here, there are older cabinet saws in the local Clists within 100 or 150 miles every single week. I am an OWWM guy, and all my machines in my shop, which are used daily (I'm not a hobbyist) have all been restored by me. 15 years ago, my frustration with pacific rim machines boiled over, and I replaced every single machine in my shop, slowly but surely, with an OWWM categorically-equivalent machine (jointer for jointer, planer for planer, tsaw for tsaw, etc....) and have been pleased with finally having high quality, capable machines to work with.

Why wouldn't you drive 100 miles to go pick up a Powermatic 66 for $300 to $500 instead of paying $3000 for a new one half as good, quality wise. If you're that worried about quality, and want to be absolutely sure of what you're getting, just go to the OWWM website, and place a Wanted To Buy ad for a restored Powermatic 66, and that you're willing to pay, say, $1500 for it.

I paid $350 for this one, before my restoration: (Sorry, it's upside down on a dolly)
http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab57/hawkfan9/1985%20Powermatic%2066/IMAG0179_zpsa0c130b1.jpg

And $600 later for all costs, including new bearings, paint, and a brand new Biesemeyer fence, have this in my shop:

http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab57/hawkfan9/1985%20Powermatic%2066/c34f68fe-4d1b-4f10-b445-98cc56bd3afe_zpse13115a1.jpg

Or this for $400, a Powermatic 72 (big boy saw with cast iron extension)

http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab57/hawkfan9/Powermatic%2072%20tablesaw/basefront.jpg

And, $450 later, including paint, cast iron tops re-ground, and new bearings and starter:

http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab57/hawkfan9/Powermatic%2072%20tablesaw/finished3.jpg

Last month, I drove 800 miles each way and paid $450 for this 16" Yates American jointer in Philadelphia:

http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab57/hawkfan9/Yates%20American%2016%20inch%20jointer/606902c1-b3de-4523-a0ef-b3c0887b925e_zpsd64637e4.jpg

And now, it's almost done, in my shop, waiting on new cutterhead bearings to arrive. I've spent less than $400 on new knives ($75), bearings, paint, and having the tables re-ground ($200), and it looks like this (not completed yet, and fence present, but not on yet):

http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab57/hawkfan9/Yates%20American%2016%20inch%20jointer/IMAG0540_zpsb6b5885b.jpg

Nothing available today from Sawstop, Jet, Grizzly or Powermatic can even come close to the quality of any of these machines, and I've only spent more than $1000 on any one machine in my shop once. It was plug and play and needed nothing but a sharpening of the knives on a different 12" jointer.

My point is, if you look a little, you'll be surprised with the great quality available on these old machines. If you're not the type of guy/gal who wants to spend any time messing around with restoring one of them, all you have to do is buy one already done from an OWWM'er. There are lots of folks all over the country that restore machines because they like to, and then just sell them off and do more. I've restored 38 machines in the past 4 years, and have 7 waiting in line.

Something to consider, and I can assure you that the quality of these machines far exceeds anything you can buy today for a few grand brand new. The equivalant price for a new jointer, like the one I've shown, purchased new today from Northfield in Minnesota is over $16,000. Go to their website and check it out.....

[Kent A Bathurst]

Jeff -

I REALLY dig the Yates aircraft carrier. :) Y-A built stupendous machines back in the day.

I guarantee you - you can walk into hundreds of sawmills today [smaller ones], go to their planer shop, and see a venerable 50+ year-old Yates A62 planer running 300+ lfpm, butt-to-butt, all day long. It's just a question of maintenance.

I know one place that recently bought 3 used parts machines for dirt cheap, and picked the best bits and made one brand-new planer. They had about $50k in it all told, but at that point it was a $250k machine, like new, with 50 years + left on the clock, and it runs at least 16/5 every week.

Heck - you'll even run into some that were never upgraded, and they run all the heads and feed rolls via wide belts and one monstrous motor.

[John Donhowe]

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Joe Leigh http://www.sawmillcreek.org/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?p=2365153#post2365153)greatly reducing the possibility of kickback.



But not eliminating it?

The link you cited also says "reduces the possibility"- doesn't say the European (short) fence design eliminates kickback.

[Dennis Aspö]

I like OWWM machines but I have a requirement that a non obtrusive riving knife has to be on the saw, which rules out old US saws. Fortunately there's european OWWM too and proper riving knives where standard since ages ago there. I'm more of a user and my current saw is likely to be my last, it's that good.

[Nick Coffelt]

Great feedback guys. Sounds like I'll be looking for a older american made cabinet saw. Would love to have the $$ for a SS but just isnt in the cards. Sure the saw isnt that much more but by the time you get it home with all the bells and whistles its just too much. Great to hear all the what if and wish lists out there.

[Prashun Patel]

Nick-

I'll offer that the one thing you'll miss in an older American saw (possibly) is the loss of a riving knife. I would take a new, foreign saw with a riving knife over an older American saw most days.

I'd also choose a riving knife over blade-braking technology any day too. I own a Sawstop, but IMHO, kickback is the more sinister and probable risk. It's not always intuitive when/how something kicks back.

My SS has a super easy (toolless) lever to swap the blade guard and riving knife. I highly vote for THIS type of feature being the key to your selection. By and large, most people are satisfied with their +$500 saws accuracy, durability, and customer support (at least as evidenced by posts on this site). I suspect the biggest differentiator is in the built in safety mechanisms.

[Bill Space]

Hi,

Well, from where I am coming from I don't know what is the best saw for you in your price range.

All I can say is that a riving knife was important to me...so much that I eliminated the old American iron from the get go. I bought a Grizzly 1023RLWX 5 HP single phase saw. I love it.

Love old American iron too, by the way...but basic safety features are important too.

Every time I use the RL1023 or walk by it I smile... Can't say more than that!

But it is all about you and not about us...Hope you find your decision not too difficult and are happy with what you chose in a year or two.

Bill

[Chris Padilla]

For those discounting OWWM from America without riving knives, consider this little beauty from Microjig (http://www.microjig.com/products/mj-splitter-steel-pro/index.shtml"). I have one on my saw...works as advertised.

[Dennis Aspö]

There's always old Wadkin saws and other OWWM euro stuff.

[Joe A Faulkner]

I don't know your location, but Anderson Indiana CL has a PM 66 with 54" fence for $1,200. 3PH, single phase. Likely would not disappoint you and if you tired of it, you likely could get your investment out of it.

[Roy Turbett]

Nick-

I'll offer that the one thing you'll miss in an older American saw (possibly) is the loss of a riving knife. I would take a new, foreign saw with a riving knife over an older American saw most days.

I'd also choose a riving knife over blade-braking technology any day too. I own a Sawstop, but IMHO, kickback is the more sinister and probable risk. It's not always intuitive when/how something kicks back.

My SS has a super easy (toolless) lever to swap the blade guard and riving knife. I highly vote for THIS type of feature being the key to your selection. By and large, most people are satisfied with their +$500 saws accuracy, durability, and customer support (at least as evidenced by posts on this site). I suspect the biggest differentiator is in the built in safety mechanisms.

I had an aftermarket Biesmeyer splitter on my Unisaw that worked almost as well as the riving knife on my Sawstop. You can easily build splitters into shop made zero clearance inserts for nearly every cabinet saw. That said, I still traded my Unisaw for a Sawstop because I could afford to and wanted the stopping technology.

[David Kumm]

Some old saws do have riving knives. Other have splitters. My Robinson and Wadkin both have riving knives. I have an MJ splitter on my Rockwell 12 and made a couple of splitters to fit my Whitney . The one I use most was made to sit only 1/2" above the table and is removed quickly. It's not necessary to rule out the best build to get safety. Dave

[Art Mann]

Why wouldn't you drive 100 miles to go pick up a Powermatic 66 for $300 to $500 instead of paying $3000 for a new one half as good, quality wise. If you're that worried about quality, and want to be absolutely sure of what you're getting, just go to the OWWM website, and place a Wanted To Buy ad for a restored Powermatic 66, and that you're willing to pay, say, $1500 for it.

First of all, old used Powermatics and Unisaws that the owner claims are in good shape are priced at $1200 to $1500 around here (within 100 miles). One that is priced at $300 to $500 is not worth hauling home for free. It is usually very rusty, needs a new fence and several other parts and has a 3-phase motor that I'm not interested in accommodating. I know because I have driven many miles and wasted many hours in the past just looking and I don't plan on doing that any more. Sorry, but I don't consider a used saw from someone who advertises on OWWM as being any indicator of the quality of the equipment they are selling. I would have to go look first. Anyway, the chances of someone selling one within even 100 miles of me is low. I know of many people, both hobbyist and professional, both on line and in person, who have bought new Grizzly cabinet saws in recent years. I have yet talked to anyone whose opinion I trusted who didn't like their purchase. For the past 40 years, I have used contractor style saws. I have built a lot of nice cabinets, furniture and smaller projects for myself and for sale to others. Quality is a relative term. Why take a risk buying from a stranger who provides no warranty and no shipping? For less money, I can have a Grizzly delivered to my door. It will have more features and a real warranty and is well liked by the vast majority of people who buy them.

I think the idea of buying old heavy iron and restoring it is great for people who enjoy that kind of work. I don't. I like woodworking.

[Kent A Bathurst]

First of all, old used Powermatics and Unisaws that the owner claims are in good shape are priced at $1200 to $1500 around here (within 100 miles). One that is priced at $300 to $500 is not worth hauling home for free....................I don't consider a used saw from someone who advertises on OWWM as being any indicator of the quality of the equipment they are selling.

You are in a "no-fly zone" in terms of used PM and Uni. Not true of the entire country, of course. You have a limit of 100 miles, not everyone does. Every bit of that is legit, Art - no quibbles. Kinda reminds me of the Cone of Silence in Get Smart - there is some exclusion barrier around you at 99 miles radius. :D :D

On OWWM.....

That group is, in my opinion and experience, every bit as up-front and top-shelf as the group here at SMC. At SMC, I only buy from people I "know" - never from a someone that has few posts.

At OWWM, the same would apply - I read, asked questions, and got in touch with a long-time member who had a lot of posting activity and photos of restores [that is what that gang does]. And then - sight unseen, a 600 mile one-way drive to get a DP. It was absolutely as advertised - which was beautifully refurbished. They are very clear, IMO, as to the state of the machine: proiject v restored v whatever.

So - I guess I am sticking up for the integrity of that group, as opposed to the who-the-heck-knows guy on ebay or CL - two completely different groups. I would trust the established guys on OWWM, and I never buy anything from the other 2 sites.

You should, of course, put yourself at ease and go inspect first if that is the way you are wired. No gripe there either.

[Terry Therneau]

I use an older Unisaw. It is a great machine and I would recommend it to others, but do take the time to add further safety equipment. I have a splitter very similar to the microjig on one throat plate and a second plate without: it only takes seconds to swap the non-splitter one in for the occasional non-through cuts I need. I have a ceiling mounted shark guard over the top and replaced the switch with one of those large paddles you sometimes see in a school (no need to look- just slap in the general direction to turn it off). I have about $500 in the saw all told. The biggest downside compared to a SS is that it is easier to be dumb and leave something off. Not a trivial downside by any means! But if I were doing it again I would go the same route. I put in new bearings and belts and there is simply nothing else to wear out, the saw will easily outlast me.

I was trimming some scroll saw work one day, a 12" panel that I had left 1/2" large so that I could correct it if the design didn't end up quite centered, splitter not on the saw. I didn't quite push it all the way past the blade before I started to lift my hand and it touched the back of the blade --- faster than the blink of an eye it was frisbeed across the room and into the back wall. It ruined the piece (4+ hours down the drain) but the risk for bodily harm was much more sobering.

Terry T

[jack duren]

Just hold on to your money and wait for a deal. A lot of Unisaws and Powermatics pop up on Craigslist here for under a $1000 and this would leave you room for accessories you will want and need.

[Harold Weaver]

Nick,
I think you will be happy with an older American saw. I am not knocking the new stuff, plenty of folks like them and many are adverse to putting a little elbow grease into bringing one back to its glory, and that's all good too. To each his own I say. But in the used machine market, diligence will pay off in your search. Good deals can be found if you are patient and pay attention to condition and inspect a machine thoroughly. Look for a good PM 66 or a Unisaw, they are both good dependable machines and parts are plentiful. In many cases, a "full" restoration is not necessary, or if you like, take it to the limit. Your options are endless. My PM 66 is 53 years old and I got it from an auction for $150, put a total of about $700 in it, including a new 3 HP Leeson motor and you couldn't pry it away from me for any amount of money. Good luck hunting and keep us posted as to what you find.

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[Curtis Horswill]

For just over your budget of $2000 I just yesterday picked up this Knapp saw/shaper combo off of Craigslist. It has a 60" slider, two 4 hp motors, single phase. Not a lot of these out there, and I had to drive 1600 miles round trip to pick it up, but it was worth the wait and the drive. I would look for a small slider, but that is just me.

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[William Mark Dulken]

I haven't seen anyone mention Powermatics new hybrid cabinet saw the PM1000. I'm shopping for a sub 2K saw same as the original poster and am considering this saw. I think its fairly new but does anyone have any experience with it yet?

[Gary Van Antwerp]

Have one more saw you should look at. I own a General International 50-200r. Great saw with a 2hp motor. Got this for $1200 with free shipping. I know most people would call this one a hybrid, but it doesn`t operate or feel like a hybrid. Very good saw. Well designed. They also make this saw with a 3hp motor, 50-275R. they also make a nice router table attachment, model number 40-070ek. Got this for $400 with free shipping. I installed this on the left extension and have been very happy with results. I did upgrade the fence to be able to use a Very Super Cool Tools rip fence. Got that for around $300 which includes shipping. Made my own rails. Cost of that came out to $90. Total cost in this setup is under $2000. Very happy with everything. I too would love a SS, but still cannot justify cost. I think and do not do stupid practices when using my saw. always use it the way it was designed. Good luck with search

[Rodger Kanis]

And $600 later for all costs, including new bearings, paint, and a brand new Biesemeyer fence, have this in my shop:


You do great machine restoration work, Jeff. Buying off of you or some other OWWM member is an interesting option.

I think you're into that for a LOT more than $600, though. Sure, you may have only laid out $600 cash for the machine and materials, but I bet you've put in a TON of time. This includes your driving time (acquisition), travel costs, stripping, refinishing, repair, research on what to do/where to buy, looking for the saw, etc. How long do you think ALL of the above added up to? :)

Time has to be factored in, and if you applied a reasonable rate to your time, your $600 "total cost" number shoots up pretty quickly. Especially for something that's almost a "commodity" in our world (table saw). It's also assuming that someone even has the time to spend.

I think the story is different for your aircraft carrier jointer, though. To buy one that is ready to go right away is a heck of a lot more expensive than the table saw examples, just as you said. Someone likely couldn't afford one otherwise unless they went through the work that you did. I still don't think the poster would bother doing it, he'd find another way, as it's not his cup of tea. I'd have to skip it too, as it would never get done anytime soon these days. Again, buying from OWWM is an interesting option in this case, and one I've never considered. Then again, I couldn't get this monster down my basement stairs, either! :D

You clearly enjoy this work, and you are definitely good at it, and have the time and ability to do it. My eyes opened wide when you wrote you've done 38 machines in four years! 38! That's wild! It's nearly one machine a month!

Keep up the good work, including posting the "before and after" pictures. I love looking seeing the transformations.

[Jeff Heath]

You do great machine restoration work, Jeff. Buying off of you or some other OWWM member is an interesting option.

I think you're into that for a LOT more than $600, though. Sure, you may have only laid out $600 cash for the machine and materials, but I bet you've put in a TON of time. This includes your driving time (acquisition), travel costs, stripping, refinishing, repair, research on what to do/where to buy, looking for the saw, etc. How long do you think ALL of the above added up to? :)

Time has to be factored in, and if you applied a reasonable rate to your time, your $600 "total cost" number shoots up pretty quickly. Especially for something that's almost a "commodity" in our world (table saw). It's also assuming that someone even has the time to spend.

I think the story is different for your aircraft carrier jointer, though. To buy one that is ready to go right away is a heck of a lot more expensive than the table saw examples, just as you said. Someone likely couldn't afford one otherwise unless they went through the work that you did. I still don't think the poster would bother doing it, he'd find another way, as it's not his cup of tea. I'd have to skip it too, as it would never get done anytime soon these days. Again, buying from OWWM is an interesting option in this case, and one I've never considered. Then again, I couldn't get this monster down my basement stairs, either! :D

You clearly enjoy this work, and you are definitely good at it, and have the time and ability to do it. My eyes opened wide when you wrote you've done 38 machines in four years! 38! That's wild! It's nearly one machine a month!

Keep up the good work, including posting the "before and after" pictures. I love looking seeing the transformations.

Thanks, Rodger. I appreciate the kind words. I honestly don't look at the time spent as a cost factor. Some would, but I don't. I am a cabinetmaker, furnituremaker, and wooden planemaker by trade. We all have hobbies. Mine is restoring OWWM's and metalworking machines, too. I get a great sense of pride everytime I save one of these old American made beauties. I've always got one or two restorations going. Right now, I've got the jointer and a 27" bandsaw underway, and I've got 7 other machines waiting in line for their turn. I make upgrades to my equipment (in size capability) as I go, and sell off others that I don't have a use for anymore. Once they're dialed in and have their bearings replaced, etc.....they are ready for solid work for a very, very long time.

Cheers!