Bandsaw - choosing between a MM16 and Felder FB-510

[Erich Larson]

Any thoughts on the choice between a Felder FB-510 and Minimax 16? They are about the same price, cutting capacity and weight. They will be used in a 400 sq ft garage shop.

The Felder has larger diameter wheels but the same resaw height. I would like to keep the overall height of the saw under 80" so that I can move it outside through the garage doors if needed. This eliminates something like the MM20.

The MM16 seems to be a very popular saw with a great reputation. Anything with the name Felder on it has good credibility too.

[Jim Andrew]

I can only comment on the MM16,have had one for 10 years. Very good saw. I like the guides. I get blades from my local saw shop, they order them from a shop that just makes bandsaw blades, and they are very good. Just wish they would resharpen the blades.

[John A langley]

I was on my MM16 for about 8 years it's been a good saw

[Joe Meirhaeghe]

I too have the MM 16. Great saw, lots of power & great resaw height. My only complaint is I do wish the table was larger. However most all band saws have too small table tops in my opinion. I don't know anyone who has a Felder so I can't comment on it.

[Thomas Hotchkin]

MM16 great saw

[Mike Heidrick]

Not sure where you live but drive to Ohio and buy the MM20 for sale on woodnet. Its cheaper than either of those says new. MM20 owner and its super awesome.

[Keith Outten]

I purchased a Felder FB-610 last year and its a fabulous machine. I agree with Erich about the quality of Felder machines and the reputation of their company.

Both machines you are considering Erich are top notch in quality and features. I doubt you will make a mistake purchasing either one just make sure you purchase a very high quality blade for your new band saw.
.

[David Ragan]

I been completely satisfied with my MM-16.

the reason why I bought it was for the rigid column. I researched it out. Did not consider Felder at all.

I will say that I had to build a table to put the saw on, about 15" higher. I am 75".

[Craig Behnke]

400 sq ft can get tight if you have a lot of equipment. I would think the MM16 has a slightly smaller footprint and overall area it takes up...and it packs the same punch, so you're not giving up anything meaningful in return for the space savings. Both are super high quality machines that you'll probably be very happy with.

That said, in my opinion (just my personal experience, it may differ from others' reality/facts) from researching a bandsaw buy 2 years ago, the MM bandsaws have one thing that Felder doesn't have yet (in the US at least); MM has a huge installed base of long term users that just rave about the quality of the product over the long-term. Felder recently started making their bandsaws in house versus prior when they had them made (in Italy, where MM is made). I'm not at all saying Felder machines aren't incredibly well designed, built, etc., it's just that it will be years before their in-house made bandsaws build a long-term (10,15+ yrs) track record over a large user base. FWIW, YMMV.

Have fun with the decision, probably can't go wrong with either.

edit: I bought a FB510 2 years ago

[Erich Larson]

Lots of positive comments about both. I guess I'm going to have to go see these machines for myself before I can make a decision.

[Kent A Bathurst]

If you have a couple top-end, comparable machines here [which I think you do], then maybe the real question is proximity and access to service, seller's reputation, etc.? Take the best service and support - - I've done that a number of times personally and professionally.

[Jim Becker]

Satisfied MM16 owner for many years now. MiniMax would be my first choice again if I needed a bigger saw or a new one due to some unfortunate circumstance. Felder wasn't in that game at the time I was buying. They are a good company, however, and hopefully that reflects in their offerings.

[Clay Fails]

I know this was not on tge OP's list, but would a Laguna LT16HD not be in the same league as the MM and Felder?

[John Coloccia]

I'd LOVE to have an MM16, but honestly I'm not sure about the new guides they're shipping with. I guess that's a matter of taste, but I really like the European guides and I'm not quite sure why they're using Carter guides now. Apparently that's an upgrade? I just don't see it. Maybe someone knowledgeable can weigh in on that. Maybe I'm mistaken, but I think they only adjust from one side. Is that right or am I having an early senior moment?

Either way, guides are replaceable.

[Erik Loza]

I'd LOVE to have an MM16, but honestly I'm not sure about the new guides they're shipping with. I guess that's a matter of taste, but I really like the European guides and I'm not quite sure why they're using Carter guides now. Apparently that's an upgrade? I just don't see it. Maybe someone knowledgeable can weigh in on that. Maybe I'm mistaken, but I think they only adjust from one side. Is that right or am I having an early senior moment?

Either way, guides are replaceable.

John, the S400P's are available with the Euro guides now. Just an FYI.

Erik Loza
Minimax

[Susumu Mori]

I have been using a FB510 for about 6 months now.
In November, they came to my house to exchange the motor after my minor inquiry about some noise from the motor.
This motor upgrade made the saw much smoother and quieter for some reason. I guess they found out some batch of their motors were bit noisy. They also exchanged the entire circuit with it, all for free. I was amazed.

This was an upgrade from Glizz 14 inch. Day and night. I'm completely satisfied. I still keep the Grizz for curve cutting.

I would have been perfectly happy with MM16/20, but the reason I went with Felder/Hammer is;

1) I bought it with a jointer/planer (A331). I liked A331 than MiniMax's offering. I wanted the euro-guard and the spiral cutter, both of which are not really essential, though. I wanted a bandsaw with the same source, delivered together.
2) I live near New Castle, DW. I got the delivery directly from the headquarter. They were very helpful.

After using 6 months;

1) I upgraded the FB510 blade guides to the Felder ceramic guides ($260). It is worth every penny. Now the set up is very easy.
2) Every time I contacted Felder/Hammer (including the motor upgrade), they treat me very well.

I guess the bottom line is, both Felder and MiniMax ask premium with very good reasons and they make you happy.
Hope this helps.

[David Kumm]

Susumu, who makes the new motor? Dave

[Erich Larson]

I know this was not on tge OP's list, but would a Laguna LT16HD not be in the same league as the MM and Felder?

When I first contacted them they started sending unsolicited email to me. I may be old fashioned but I ding companies for doing that. There are also a lot of unpleasant CS stories out there, and the saw itself is a bit lighter, has as shallower throat, smaller table and it is not clear who made it. Laguna also seems to offer some Pacific Rim products that have had mixed reviews. That suggests lower overall standards.

All in all Laguna just didn't give me the warm fuzzies.

[Mike Hollingsworth]

I'd choose the heavier one.

[Susumu Mori]

Hmmm I've never paid attention.
There is a mark on it, which looks like saying "ATB"

[Rod Sheridan]

Hmmm I've never paid attention.
There is a mark on it, which looks like saying "ATB"

Thanks, ATB makes sense, Felder use a lot of their motors..............Rod.

[David Kumm]

Thanks, ATB makes sense, Felder use a lot of their motors..............Rod.

Any idea if it is their Euro or Chinese motor? Leeson sources some there too. Dave

[Jim Bessette]

I'm going through gyrations between these two saws, but I'm leaning toward the MM16. Price is too close to be a concern. Everything I've seen recently regarding the MM16 seems quite positive. Some of the posts from years ago had me worrying a bit about using a small blade, but the current video on the MM site shows using a 1/8" blade. I don't really plan to go that small (3/16" is what I use a lot of now), but it's nice to see that it should work without modifying the machine. One video Felder has online shows what I believe to be a minimum of 10mm blade. That equates to pretty close to 3/8". If that is the case, than the Felder is definitely out for me.

I do suppose the large wheels on the Felder are a Good Thing (tm), but I don't think it's really much of an issue, or that much of a positive for Felder vs MM. I do like the footbrake on the MM, I'm not sure how the Felder stops. I did read some forum posts mentioning an electric brake, but that restarting took 1-2 mins. Not sure if that was simply an issue with his saw. I would hope so, otherwise just seems odd. But there's no mention of a foot brake on the Felder. I think I like the fence on the Felder better, as it would allow me to get the guides lower when making a narrow cut. I would likely make a lower fence for the MM myself.

[Peter Kelly]

Any idea if it is their Euro or Chinese motor? Leeson sources some there too. DaveI think ATB motors are all made in China now.

[Erich Larson]

ATB motors are mostly made in Europe.

http://www.atb-motors.com/EN/Locations/Locations.aspx

[David Kumm]

ATB motors are mostly made in Europe.

http://www.atb-motors.com/EN/Locations/Locations.aspx

According to that website, ATB has a motor production site in Wuhan, China. Dave

[Ken Fitzgerald]

David,

If you click on the different site icons, they indicate motors are being manufactured in Austria, multiple cities in Germany, multiple cities in the UK, Poland, Serbia and China.

Check out this link: http://www.atb-motors.com/EN/Locations/Locations.aspx

[Rich Riddle]

I would vote for the MiniMax all day long after owning both Minimax (jointer/planer and shaper) and Hammer (sliding Winner K3 saw). Many Hammer/Felder owners, including myself, have poor customer support beyond the sale. Getting good customer support is the exception with them, not the rule.

[David Kumm]

David,

If you click on the different site icons, they indicate motors are being manufactured in Austria, multiple cities in Germany, multiple cities in the UK, Poland, Serbia and China.

Check out this link: http://www.atb-motors.com/EN/Locations/Locations.aspx

Ken, did not mean to imply that all motors were Chinese. As I posted earlier, I wondered if like Leeson, some were Chinese. Only relevant in that the ATB motors that do not show origin on their faceplate might not be Euro. Not necessarily good or bad, but nice to know when making a decision. I only like Euro motors slightly more than Chinese as I think both have shorter lives than heavy frame NEMA. Dave

[Jim Andrew]

I like the euro guides on my MM16 as well. Easy to adjust, smooth running. Mine came with ceramic guides for narrow blades, but I have not put them on. The euro guides work fine with a 3/8" blade.

[Kieran Kammerer]

My S400P (MM16) came with the Carter Guides and I find them kind of a PITA to adjust. Wish I had the option for the euro guides.

[Erich Larson]

As usual it's not the standard (IEC vs NEMA) that counts; it's the quality of the implementation. There is lots of low quality NEMA spec motors on the market, as well as nice EU IEC. That Grizzly generally has a NEMA motor, but a Martin is going to have IEC stuff.

Here is the press release on the acquisition of ATB by a Chinese consortium.

http://en.people.cn/90778/7622909.html

There is no indication they are shutting down EU manufacture of motors.

[Jim Bessette]

My S400P (MM16) came with the Carter Guides and I find them kind of a PITA to adjust. Wish I had the option for the euro guides.

My only bandsaw experience is with a 14" Delta with either cool blocks or Carter Stabilizer; never used Euro or Carter Micro guides. I will mostly be using a 3/16" blade (for now). I currently swap my cool blocks for the stabilizer when going from straight cuts to curved. I expect the Carter guide that would come with the MM16 are MUCH easier than what I deal with now. However, it looks to me that Euro guides require no tools whereas the Carter looks like one needs to use a screwdriver to loosen then tighten. I can order the MM16 with either their Euro guides or the Carter. I'll buy the new stabilizer separately. I guess ceramic are yet another option for straight cuts. Any suggestions or recommendations as to which guide would be better for me for using 3/16" blades?

[David Kumm]

Erich, I should clarify that I don't think NEMA are necessarily better or that origin is automatically an indication of quality. My motor guys who rewind and fix motors for me will tell you that there are lots of mediocre and some good that find their way into woodworking machines. Techtop makes some pretty decent motors in China and many if not most 3 hp and under are throw away from most sources now. My main complaint with IEC motors used in woodworking machines is the tendency of companies to use small frame motors with high HP. 90L and 112 IEC are often loaded to 9-10 hp even though they are typically 4-5.5 hp frame sizes. Causes them to wear bearings faster and makes them very expensive to either replace or rewind. Same would be true if the motors were NEMA and sized similarly.

Because I spend more time working and rehabbing machines I'm pretty anal about motor and bearing quality so I always look hard at the motors when I buy. Right or wrong. When I buy used ( which is most of the time ) I factor more repair money into a Euro machine as the small module electrics and small frame motors are more likely to need work than an old cast iron machine with a large frame motor- even if 75 years old. I've had enough discussions with motor people that I can get an opinion on most motors if I have enough faceplate info. Dave

[Jim Becker]

I have successfully used a 1/8" blade on my MM16 (circa 2004). It took a little more setup work, but did the job. My comment would be that while you can use very narrow blades on these big saws (regardless of brand), the guide do make a difference. The Euro guides on my are not "ideal" for this purpose so if I were going to do this with frequency, I'd likely opt to have alternative blade guides available for that operation...something along the lines of "cool blocks" that I used on the 14" Jet say I had before the MM16. Some of the setup also involved adjusting the wheels because they are not crowned like typical 14" "north American" band saws and with a narrow blade, you really cannot run with the teeth just off the edge like you typically do with a wider blade. 'Just keep that in mind and enjoy your new band saw, whichever your choose!