How many saws, and why?

[Monte Milanuk]

Okay, I realize this is kind of an open-ended question, kind of like when I see pics of people's shops with umpteen routers, each dedicated to a different use and left set up for projects. I've been looking at more hand-tool shop pics and I've noticed that besides dovetail and tenon and carcass and goodness knows what else, a lot of folks seem to have multiple rip and crosscut panel (hopefully I have the right term there) saws in their saw tills. Assuming these aren't just collectors, why would you have multiple rip and crosscut panel saws, rather than one of each? I know some are a few inches longer or shorter, or have slightly different teeth-per-inch... but does that make *that* much difference to justify having more than rip saw? Yes, I be ignant and in need of edumacation, having only ever used a generic 'hand saw' from the local hardware store... please help me out here ;)

[Jeff Heath]

Different saws perform different functions better than others, just like hand planes. For instance, if you're ripping parts out of a long, wide board, you want to get the job done as quickly as possible. You're not going to choose your 10 tpi rip saw....you're going to reach for your most aggressively filed rip, probably a 5 1/2 tpi saw. Same for cross cut saws. You can certainly cut dainty dovetails with your 16" tenon saw with 4 1/2" of plate, but more than likely you'll want to reach for your 10" dovetail saw with 18 tpi. Now, if you're cutting tenons for a large farm table leg, you'll be reaching for that larger tenon saw, and for crosscuts on 5" square stock, you'll be doing the same with a 14" or 16" carcass saw, or maybe even a D9 halfback saw.

Thus the reason for having so many different saws in your till. They all have their place, and if you do a lot of hand work, you will find many situations where having the right saw for the job is optimal over just getting by with....well......whatever. The more teeth per inch a saw has, the finer the cut, and also slower, too.

Make any sense?

[Jim Koepke]

Thus the reason for having so many different saws in your till.

+1 on what Jeff said.

jtk

[Marc Seguin]

Mostly it's an addiction thing I assume. Good old saws are often so cheap it's hard to pass them by.
It is beneficial to have different pitches for different sizes and types of wood. Having a ton of different saws means you need to maintain a ton as well though.

For the douglas fir and soft hardwoods around my area I could get by with a 7tpi rip and a 8-10tpi crosscut as my only hand saws for rough stock dimensioning. If I had to. But a 4 tpi is handy for resawing.

I don't have to though, and I inherited 4 from my grandfather and have picked up 6 or 7 more from local farms and garage sales. So it doesn't take long to have a stack of them.

[Winton Applegate]

Oh you mean like my main man Harold Ionson.
When one dulls you can just grab another (kind of like my stack of hand plane blades of the same size).
Also assuming one is in such great demand that one does not have time to sharpen ones saws one can have a couple out to the saw sharpener guy (some times if we are talking Japanese pull saws, not the ones in my photo, then that means long delays because the saw sharpener may be the original maker in Japan).

Then there is the whole tooth shape for extra hard wood or for softer wood thing.

Or perhaps, assuming one is in such great demand, one has helpers that come in and they need a saw while you are using a saw of the same type.

I have a lot of saws but I don't have any of those pesky "problems" I mentioned above. I just don't know any better.

[Paul Sidener]

I get by with five saws. A dovetail, carcass, tenon, and a pair of panel saws one rip and one crosscut. That is pretty much a traditional set of saws. Back in the day people had what they needed, and nothing more. I tend to be old school, I see no reason for more. Why have an 8tpi and another 12tpi when I don't leave a sawn edge, there is always something else done to the edge after sawing. I would rather spend the extra money on wood or another tool I don't have. That and my space is limited. Now days some people just like to collect more, and there is nothing wrong with that.

[Jim Matthews]

What other durable, useful artifact from our forebears can be had for so little money?

I regularly use three vintage saws and one modern one from our very own Ron Bontz.

They share a common "balance" based on the size board I'm cutting.

[Monte Milanuk]

I wasn't really asking why have a 26" 5-1/2 tpi rip saw vs a 16" tenon saw vs a 10" 18tpi dovetail saw, or why a 24" 8-10tpi crosscut panel saw vs a smaller carcass or shoulder saw... I was asking why do I see multiple 22-26"+ big hand saws in a till. I'd wondered about the downtime for sharpening aspect, but hadn't thought of different tooth geometry for different woods or the loaner part. I'm sure that SWMBO will go for that... "honest hon, I really do need 3 extra saws for ripping, and 3 more for x-cut just for when Sam & Fred & Bill come over so I can put them to work!" Yeah... ;) although maybe I could spin it as extras for when the grandkids are old enough to come to the shop and help out in a few years ;p

[Judson Green]

Why not!?!?

[Patrick McCarthy]

Monte, lots of reasons for lots of different folks. Some, in particular, are very talented with sharpening saws, "relate" to saws, the geometry of the teeth, fleam, etc, and have access to saws, know where to get them, ENJOY them, and USE them - It only makes sense that they would be surrounded by an abundance of saws.

the real question is why do some people have more than one or two golf balls (you can only play with one at a time), why do baseball players have more than one bat and one glove, why do women need more than three pair of shoes, why do chefs have more than one or two knives, artists more than 3 or 4 brushes, you get the point (or not) by now.

as for me, I have so many, and 3 more on order, because I want to play with them and compare. Hoarding and OCD and lack of self-control, lack of skill, all may have some "mild" influence upon my actions.

[lowell holmes]

Actually, it is a competition to see who can have the most toys. I would have to go count, but I probably have 15-20 saws.

They are different teeth configuration, rip and cross cut. I'm sure there are some here that eclipse my holdings.

I do use different saws for different tasks.

For instance, when coming in with a load of newly purchased boards, I will set up sawhorses and cut the boards to lengths that I want to use and or store.
That would be probably an eight point cross cut saw. If while cutting a board to length while in the vise, an eight point panel saw would be used.

Also, the saw I use may be a matter of whimsy that I'm experiencing at the moment.

Remember the old saying, "The difference between a man and a boy is the price of his toys."

I hope this helps.

I'm sure someone will respond with a more helpful response, but I do speak the truth.:)

[Curt Putnam]

Patrick, you forgot the beauty aspect. Ron Bontz makes some achingly beautiful saws. I particularly lust after his half-backs. One of these days, I'll buy one even though I have no specific need. My dream is to have a matched pair of them. Heck, I don't even know what the use case is for half-backs vs panel saws. It's just that they are so gorgeous.

[Monte Milanuk]

I fully understand the 'just because' factor, along with the collector, loaner, and minutiae aspects, along with the production/dedicated-tool mentality. My 'other' hobby involves long-range shooting competition, and anyone that looks at my loading bench who isn't a serious aficionado of the same would probably go 'WTF?!?' Its a little ironic that there I'm the one with the multiples of nearly everything, some because I wanted to try something new, some because I want to leave them set up for specific tasks, some just... because. Someone lacking the same in-depth background (or with a more minimalist attitude) wouldn't see a need for over half of what I have there, probably the same way I don't have the experience with hand sawing to really appreciate the value of different configurations of what otherwise looked like the same type of saw. I still don't have the experience, I guess, but now at least I understand a bit more about what I don't know - if that makes any sense ;)

Thanks,

Monte

[Winton Applegate]

the saw I use may be a matter of whimsy that I'm experiencing at the moment.

I know I am experiencing
MAJOR whimsy at this moment.

Whimsy is good if you can handle it. Tends to take over your life and leave one a hollowed out shell if you aren't careful. Don't ask how I know this.
Or in the words of Frasier Crane's cop father :
"I'm not going to ANY Halloween party where I have to tell people my name is Whimsy.".
He wanted to be dressed as Sherlock Holmes, there were no Holmes costumes left and Niles got him a costume to go as Lord Peter Whimsy. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ov5AFgqtOtE) Another British sleuth hound.

A good show and set of books actually. Harriet (in TV mini series(es)) is pretty hot . . . I think.

[Tom M King]

I tried to find a short movie clip of Predator eyeing his skull collection, but had no luck. I only need about 18 handsaws, and a half dozen or so backsaws.

[lowell holmes]

I would be interested in knowing how many saws Jim has in his till? You note that he didn't mention it. :)

[Winton Applegate]

Much more than that (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQcGQYzvPUU).

[Stew Denton]

Monty,

My background is carpentry from years ago, although now it amounts to an unpaid hobby working on my house and that of the kids on occasion. Back then I used two cross cut saws, an 8 and a 12. The 8 for rough work/framing work and the 12 for finish work. It was handy to have the 8, even though Skill saws were widely used, because it was handy to just grab the hand saw for a small job rather than run an extension cord and get out the circular saw.

Carpenters like to use big saws, 26" saws, at least the ones I worked with used that size, if they used hand saws. I did work for a fellow that was pretty short, and the 26" might have given him problems, but then he didn't use hand saws much. I also used a rip saw as did some of the fellows I worked with, again 26" or even better a 28" if you had one. Then I used two rip saws, and I still use two rip saws, a 4 1/2 and a 7. The 4 1/2 is better for rough heavy work, the 7 is better for fine or finish work. I would like to add an 8 as well.

My saws are primarily old Disstons, mostly D-8s and others about that speed. If I had a chance to get a Disston 12, at a cheap (make that reasonable) price, it would get added. Would I take any of my D-8s out to make room....it won't happen, they will stay, and I will add the 12.

Other guys like to add panel saws for some types of fine cabinet, furniture, or finish work, etc. I probably will add a cross cut and a rip of that size. You get the point....saws have a habit of multiplying in the box. As soon as I get more time to build a better storage/tool chest (or something similar) set up and restore some more of my other stored saws, they will get added.

I am not a golfer, but saws are a little like golf clubs to some of us. Can a person play golf with only 3 or 4 clubs.....sure.....but do you see many golfers with only 3 or 4 clubs?

You get the point....the saws multiply.

Stew

[lowell holmes]

Monty,
A less flippant answer than I gave earlier is that there is a Popular Woodworking Video you can download for a few dollars. It is "Ron Herman Handsaws". If you watch it, a lot of the serious questions you ask will be answered. He talks about the saw tills his company take on a project.

While you are at it, He has another video on sharpening. It is the best video on sharpening hand saws I've ever watched.

If you can watch these two videos, you will probably know what you want to do about saws. If you decide to buy old handsaws, a knowledge about sharpening will be very useful.

[Jim Matthews]

You get the point....the saws multiply.

Stew

That's an understatement.
I think there's magnetism involved.

Tides, perhaps?

[Monte Milanuk]

Carpenters like to use big saws, 26" saws, at least the ones I worked with used that size, if they used hand saws. I did work for a fellow that was pretty short, and the 26" might have given him problems, but then he didn't use hand saws much. I also used a rip saw as did some of the fellows I worked with, again 26" or even better a 28" if you had one.

...

Other guys like to add panel saws for some types of fine cabinet, furniture, or finish work, etc. I probably will add a cross cut and a rip of that size.

So... that brings up another related question that has been percolating thru my brain the last day or two... from the reading I've been doing, I take it that the term 'panel' saw, whether rip or cross-cut, usually referred to something in the 16-24" range, used on dry, seasoned lumber, generally inside a cabinet or furniture shop. Which sounds an awful lot like what probably the majority of people here are using theirs for, right? I'm 6'4", with long arms (but short legs, go figure). Is a 20" panel saw going to be uncomfortably short/small for me? Should I hold out for a 24-26"+ version?

[Stew Denton]

Monte,

I am not a very big guy and I use the bigger saws, that is what I have always used and it's also what I have restored. However I think I may have one panel saw in the saw storage box. I do just fine with the bigger saws, use a 12 for fine work, and it does a great job.

That said, Chris Schwarz, in his book "The Anarchist's Tool Chest" mentions using only panel saws in the section on hand saws. He says you will find primarily 26" saws in the used market because that's what carpenters used and liked. However he says that panel saws are the ones primarily used for furniture work, you don't need the size, and weight of the bigger size. He also mentions that they are easier to store in a tool chest. I am fairly sure I have read that Chris is 6' 4'' tall also, and he uses panel saws so they seem to work fine for big guys.

I bought a couple small panel saws for when my grandchildren grow into them, they have 16" and a little over 16" blades, and after cleaning one of them up decided to give it a go. I was incredibly pleasantly surprised. The saw worked great, and I had no trouble cutting to a line with it. Based on my small amount of experience, I don't think you would have any problem with a panel saw, and I would kind of like to get a couple.

That is a bit of a problem....I have a little bit of a saw problem.....I don't need any more hand saws....I need to keep reminding myself of that....I have other tools that I need worse.....and don't have an unlimited amount of money or storage space......but it sure is fun to look at them. From reading on this forum, I know that there are those that have much bigger saw problem than I do.

Stew

[Tom Vanzant]

Monte, the Ron Herman DVDs will answer many of your questions. Pay close attention when he discusses the relationship of saw length and saw bench, and how both relate to you and your physical parameters.
About your "other" hobby....which discipline and what are your "tools"? I have a similar affliction. PM me on that subject.
Tom