Viking needs help on deciding on machine

[John Ottosson]

Hi!

Im new here, I hope to get some good answers from you more experienced laser users!

Currently searching for a laser cutter/engraver with working area somewhere around 400x600, and a tube around 50-60W.

I have got a offer from Shenhui lasers, a SH-G460 (400x600) with rotary device and 45W tube, 2010USD, incl shipping.

Also looked at a Redsail, 300x500, 50W tube, 1699USD.
eBay item# 131369821640

01) Reddot Positioning Function (showing outline or laser dot position) 100.00 USD
02) Rotary(for engraving cylinder materials) 250.00 USD
03) Industry water Cooling system CW-3000 300.00 USD
05） Motorized up and down platform: 250.00 USD
04） Upgrade to 60W: 250.00 USD


BUT I have a few questions,
I feel that I really need a rotary. But can I make it without a chiller?
Is the reddot necessary, or can I get it cheaper and add later.

Do you have any other suggerstions on manufacturers or items to add?

I mainly plan on engraving wood/plastics/aluminium, and cut plywood/plastics.

Hoping for good answers! :-)

[Bill George]

John it would help if you posted your location before everyone answers and you say.... I am in Sweden or such.

[John Ottosson]

I did have my location in the text, but edited it away..
Updated my profile now.

/John

[Braden Todd]

I'd say you definitely need the chiller, it cools the laser tube to prevent overheating and damage.

As as for the red dot pointer, I love mine on my epilogs! If you need to align a piece and be certain you get it right with one try it is your tool.

I never ran the machines you listed, i have two Epilogs and a Kern and love them! Epilogs are fan cooled but the Kern has a chiller. Not sure how much extra shipping etc would be to get to you tho.

Good luck

[John Ottosson]

Okay, I guess that I dont dare to skip the chiller.
Now it is a CW-3000, "just" a radiator and a fan, but i guess it will be enough.

On a swedish forum, alot of the members have been buying a small 3020 machine, 40W.
They are using a big bucket to circulate the water in, if thats enough for 40W i belive a CW-3000 will go fine with a 60W

Something else to think about when getting a china laser?

/John

[Rich Harman]

There are two types of red dot lasers. The first is where the red laser attaches to the laser head and aims it's beam at an angle down to the cut point. The other is where the red beam is combined with the CO2 beam so that it is coincident (through the lens). At first I thought the coincident beam was better but now I think that it is better to not have anything extra in the beam path to sap power. The laser head mounted red dot does all I need it to.

There are also two types of rotaries, be sure to get the one that fits you best. I have the roller kind. I think it is more versatile. The big disadvantage is that once a first pass is made, you cannot go back to the exact same spot. With the chuck style there is no slippage so multiple passes are not a problem.

Go for the 60W if you want to cut.

The CW5000 has a refrigeration unit built into it to actively cool the water, much better than the CW3000. If it is strictly a hobby laser that runs infrequently for short periods of time then probably a CW3000 is acceptable.

Also, you will need an exhaust fan and air assist.

[Ray Scott]

Get the CW-3000.
upgrade to 60 watts if you can afford it.
get a non-collinear red beam. The beam splitter style drops your final wattage too much.

go for a 370 watt exhaust/blower fan. This will be needed to get the fumes out.

get the rotary that fits your product process. You might end up with two rotary devices.

[joe claudio]

Greetings,
As far as cooling - most certainly there are commercial units available . that have different results . It really all depends on your "operating" environment. That being said ... simple is better .... I run a sealed 5 gallon paint bucket with distilled water with a high volume water pump . As my "environment changes " summer /winter - on the mobile - the paint bucket with water works good, but what I do is FREEZE liter soda bottles ( with water ) "big ice cubes" it isolates any contamination to the laser water ....passive cooling .....and all you have to do is re- freeze the bottles .I haven't gone the next step of using Dry ice in a a heat exchange system .

[John Ottosson]

Thank you for all your input!
Will go with 60W and a CW-3000.

Are probably going to upgrade or build a filter unit later on, will go for the smaller exhaust fan for now.

Just going to find a reasonable price for all this now.

/John

[matthew knott]

Hi John, under no circumstances let the Chinese ship your laser, get a local door to door shipper, the quote will be more but you will end up paying much less, the Chinese shipping agents pull scams, when your laser arrives at the dock you will have massive charges to pay! Shenui pulled this on us , very bad service and cost thousands. Because of this we wont use shenui ever again!

[John Ottosson]

Hi Matthew, interesting.
Can you tell me more about what costs exactly that you where charged for?

/John

[Frank barry]

I got them to drop mine to my agent at the port and it was no problem after that

also I would add I would get what you can afford now as it will never be as cheap again as it will all be shipped in the one lot

good luck cheers Frank

[Bill George]

Hi Matthew, interesting.
Can you tell me more about what costs exactly that you where charged for?

/John

John you need to do a Search on Importing laser machines from China. I don't know what Sweden's rules are for importing laser machines, but UK and US ones are pretty strict and sometimes they can't even leave the dock. The Chinese will quote a very low price on shipping but that only includes getting from their factory to the ship. The rest including duty and the remainder of the shipping costs are billed later.

[matthew knott]

We got quoted about $300 to ship from the factory to our local port, on arrival we where told we had incurred $$$ in additional charges, like ship unloading, ware house fess , all had to be paid or they would not relase the laser. On further investigation we found the shippers from China get paid commission (large amounts) for brokering these deals, if you don't pay they hold your machine and charge $300 storage a day . It's a scam but it's not illegal by maritime law

[Rich Harman]

The first machine I paid the $300 for getting it to port. I don't believe there was any scamming involved. There were more costs, the boat ride is only part of it. The second one I had my broker take care of everything, including picking it up from the factory. Total cost was a little less than the first time but the stress was near zero.

I highly recommend getting a broker to handle it. Not because I think that they are scamming but because the broker will handle all the details that would otherwise surprise you and cost you more money.

[Clark Pace]

I don't think you really get your money using the chillers from china. I know someone who just uses a basic little fridge, drilled 2 holes on the side, and set the temps too the warmest setting. Keeps the water cool, but does not freeze it. Oh yeah, put a bucket in the fridge.

In my case I use a office water cooler, that fits my pump, and have it on cool. Used it that way for 2 years. works just fine.

You can get a small fridge or water cooler for around or under $100

[John Ottosson]

What is very low shipping in your world Bill?

I used to work as a purchaser/procurment engineer, so Im not totally lost. But I always listen to words of wisdom!
Also I have a trustworthy contact in China that can inspect goods prior to shipping.

Im leaning towards using E-bay/Paypal just to be safe.
But from what I have read here, both RedSail and cnccheap seems to be companies that take good care of their customers and dont pull tricks or other stuff on you.
Anyone with a different view on that?

/John

[Inge Palmar]

I am also n progress of bying an laser. Was recommended to ask seller for DDP (Delivered Duty Paid)
The seller of goods meets complete expenses including duty or tax under goods to deliver at the premises of buyer. In other words, the selling cost of goods includes all expenses inclusive of taxes to reach the goods at the door step of buyer’s premises. In a DDP shipments, exporter bears all expenses of transportation, customs clearance, handling expenses and all other charges at load port and destination port to reach the goods at importer’s premises.

Still waiting for reply from seller

[matthew knott]

We where scammed, the shipping agent told us that they had to pay the Chinese end to get the work, its a common scam. We are not talking reasonable charges here we are talking thousands. Shenui chose a bad shipper for us, someone will have been paid commission for the work, we are talking 2-3 times total cost what a door to door shipper would charge, i will find the emails and post them up

[matthew knott]

Here are the charges, we already paid Shenui $300usd for the shipping, all the charges below are no-negotiable, where told the chinese agent had agreed to all these on our behalf, and that in fact the shipping "on board" was free of charge and a commission paid to the agent.
All the time you delay they charge £200 per day. The UK port(shipping agent) told us the charges where greatly excessive but it had all been agreed, they have you over a barrel, pay up or lose your equipment and be chased through the courts for the amount owed.

We are talking nearly $3k , Shenui admitted that someone 'new' sort our shipping, and used a new agent and last email we got said this
Now I try to ask my clients to book vessel by themselves. In this way, they know everything about the charges.
If you need technical support, pls feel free to contact me.
Best regards
Leland Huang Export Director
Liaocheng Shenhui Laser Equipment Co., Ltd





Terminal Handling £448.80 Z
Documentation £92.50 Z
Temp ROE Differential £25.50 Z
Infrastructure Fee £5.50 Z
Customs Clearance £140.00 Z
Import Delivery £150.00 Z
Fuel Surcharge £30.00 Z
Tail Lift £45.00 Z
LCL Destination INS £19.50 Z
PUMP TRUCK SURCHARGE £5.50 Z


Sub Total:
£962.30

We got charged over £900 GBP full details below.
https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?ui=2&ik=36a241d3cb&view=fimg&th=14a75b5306bad8d6&attid=0.1&disp=emb&attbid=ANGjdJ8S58GhrszKnERzwWlAJBjIArHDUyu3lWGqWuS f-Kchp4x_KA7aqglMHvgC3PvaFogGuBuLxatrPJapiJsXCyH4vip boe5TZmBsQ_WXfYYBG-GtTkmT1wr2h7U&sz=w1418-h488&ats=1421774454170&rm=14a75b5306bad8d6&zw&atsh=1






The £962.30 GBP ($1491 USD) was charged to us 1 week before arrival, we then got a second charge for the import TAX £738.12 GBP ($1144 USD) and a warehouse charge of £385 GBP ($596 USD), which had to paid before delivery.

As you can see, we paid you $210 USD for delivery and then had to pay a further $3231 USD before we got our Router.
This is why my partner got very upset and sent you the email.

Regards
Neil

[Scott Shepherd]

My favorite interactions with Chinese companies have been the part where they speak fluent English when trying to get your order, but the first sight of any problems and their English gets very broken and they shut down by answering questions that were never asked and then never answering the questions that were asked.

[John Ottosson]

Why have my reply and also Inge Palmar´s reply seems to have vanished...

Edit..
Got it now.. A bit different forum with subthreads to a thread.

Thank you all for input!

I will have it sent by UPS, chinese UPS.. And let them handle the harbour details.

/John