Pocket hole machine??

[Gary Sutherland]

Hi everyone,

I love pocket screws, and have decided to purchase a pocket hole machine before beginning our new kitchen project. I am considering the new Kreg foreman ($399) or the Shopfox ($628).Tthe Shopfox actually "looks" to be better made to me. Plenty of reviews of the Kregg (mostly positive) but none of the Shopfox. Has anyone used the Shopfox? I would really appreciate your evaluation.

Have a terrific day...

Gary

[Rick Alexander]

Ahh - just went through this early last year prior to the new Kreg setup coming out. I ended up with getting lucky on a used Castle TSM 21 at just about my price range but prior to that I was looking at the old style Kreg Foreman at $850 or more accurately trying to find a used one a little cheaper - like under $500. After just missing a couple on Craig's list and looking for over a year I'd about decided on the new $850 Foreman. Thank goodness the new Foreman hadn't come out or I would have missed out on the Castle I've got. I like the holes it makes much better plus that machine is completely automatic. Hard to beat that Castle design - must be why they haven't changed it for like 20 years. They make a table top one that runs at about $1100 new but I don't know I would have sprung for the price difference being this is mostly a hobby for me. Those Castle's are REALLY nice though and you know they will last because they are for professional operations. Parts for them are also readily available and the company is just incredible to deal with. I just saw a TWM-21 on an auction site yesterday - if you're interested pm me and I'll send you the link. It's probably going to go around $1200 or better though because new they run like $3100.

On the Shopfox, I just thought that was just too close to the price point on the old style Foreman. That electric Foreman came highly praised from several of my smaller professional shop friends that the difference in price just wasn't worth the risk. For sure - this was going to be the last time I wanted to be looking for a pocket hole machine so I just didn't consider it a good choice. I bet it's a fine machine - just no reputation yet in my book. I know that old Foreman is a good machine.

I have to say if you're not doing this professionally - that new Foreman looks pretty darn good. I know it's mostly plastic but the parts that need to be stout seem to be. I've had hands on it and can say it cuts very nice holes - even with the larger bit. I bet they are selling the heck out of them at that price point and the couple of friends I have that bought them seem to be very happy with them. If you make kitchens on occasion which makes for quite a few pocket holes it's worth it IMHO. Plus - heck if you really don't normally use it that much you could just use it for that one big project and then probably get nearly what you paid for it on Craig's list because so many folks are looking for a deal on one. I know folks were getting $500-600 on their used old style Foremans (and selling them almost instantly on CL) and I bet they didn't pay much more than that new. Heck - try the new one for your kitchen and if you're not happy with it - sell it for $300 and write off the $100 as time saved on your kitchen. I can almost guarantee you though if you get one you won't be able to go back to drilling them by hand. I know for a fact I won't.

[Peter Quinn]

The old foreman is great for the price, the new one looks like a good value, no experience with the shop fox, the castle machines are better than All of them, better entry angle. On a single kitchen or even a single house full of builtins I would not bother with a machine, I use the jig in my home shop set up on a good bed board, it's nearly as fast as the machine at a fraction the cost and takes up far less space when idle, plus it's highly portable. The new kreg might be a contender at some point in my home shop because I'm short on time and just that lazy, but hardly a necessity for pocket screws.

[Justin Ludwig]

I've been building cabinets since '08 without a machine. It's on the list of items to buy, but having a guy drill face frame pieces for $10/hr, I haven't justified the purchase just yet.

I can drill at almost the same speed as an operator on a Castle. I've timed it. If I were drilling face frames all day everyday, I'd buy one.

For a hobbyist, just buy a Kreg K4MS and attach it to an existing table. Spend the money saved on blades or something cool.

[J.R. Rutter]

I've done hundreds of face frames with the basic benchtop Kreg jig. A good corded drill helps. It does get a little tiring, but I agree that for one kitchen and smaller projects beyond that it is hard to justify the larger size and cost of the Foreman. Having said that, last year I found a Porter Cable pocket hole machine (made by Castle) on craigslist. It is great - the holes are at a shallower angle so the parts don't shift much, if at all during assembly. I have done lots of frames freehand using a thumb for pressure with good results, but still clamp to a table if alignment is critical.

[Jesse Busenitz]

I just bought a New Kreg Foreman, and it is great!!! Like was said the base and handle are plastic but the rest is pretty beefy.

[Rick Alexander]

I'm impressed Justin. It takes like 2 seconds to place the board under the clamp and the cycle time on the Castle TSM 21 is like 1.2 seconds. You sir are quite the drill master if you can drill one manually that fast.

Plus - it's major cool.

[joseph f merz]

i really have trouble imagining the little kreg jig keeping up with a foreman .that said if your just doing a kitchen worth checking out .besides if you end up doing alot and need a foreman you will still need the simple one . i got the foreman manly to speed up trim work .for instance all mitered or but casing on most of my projects were done with pockets screws ,maybe a tenon or biscuit for lineup .but i often need the portable clamp on unit for long material . I agree with using a corded drill as said .i took a faster 3/8" drill and put a 1/2" chuck on it to get more speed .

[Barry Nelson]

Do you have enough to do to justify the outlay?
What is their resale value like?

[Dan Chouinard]

I have had the new kreg foreman for 3 weeks. Love it, especially for building cabinet boxes. MUCH faster and easier than the little jig.