Table saws, explain it like I'm 5...

[Steve Paxman]

OK, I'm a lathe guy. I have a good 16" lathe, and a decent 14" bandsaw, both Jet brand. I've come upon a few times when I also wish I had a table saw. But, since I like nice things, I don't really want to get the $99 compact table saw that I can pick up at home depot. I would use a table saw for possibly making some furniture for my new house (so, cutting sheets of plywood, for example, miter joints for face frames, cross cutting for shelves maybe, that type of regular stuff). I'm pretty stuck on just having 120v tools, by the way, and my table saw would be mobile one way or another, because I'm just working with all my stuff out in the garage.

So, I'm thinking maybe something like a hybrid saw, making cutting sheet goods like plywood, etc, pretty easy to do, good quality so I don't have to fight the tool, etc, even though I would be more of an occasional user.

But even in that category, the price range is incredible. What is the difference between, say, this Ridgid saw from Home depot that gets good reviews and is around $500:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/RIDGID-13-Amp-10-in-Professional-Table-Saw-R4512/202500206

and something like this Jet, which would match my lathe and bandsaw (I know, matching brands and color is sort of a trivial thing, but still...), but costs closer to $1400:

http://www.amazon.com/Jet-708494K-JPS-10TS-10-inch-Tablesaw/dp/B007HC7066

And then throw in the mid-priced option, from Grizzly:

https://www.grizzly.com/products/G0715P

Huge price range, how different would they really be to me, if I'm just using it for practical stuff sometimes, making my own furniture sometimes, and playing around as a hobbyist?

Thanks in advance,

Steve

[Lee Reep]

I lived without a table saw for years. But I was (and still am) a big believer in radial arm saws. I bought one as my first major powered woodworking tool back in 1976. That saw still is my "go to" saw for crosscutting. I have a compound miter saw for miters, so I can keep the RAS locked in a 90 degree crosscuts. I bought a Ryobi BT3100 table saw at Home Depot 10 years ago. I do not own any other Ryobi power tools. The BT3100 (and its predecessor, the BT3000) were really decent little contractor saws. But like most contractor saws, I view it as underpowered for my needs). I have a thin kerf Forrest blade on it, and that helps a lot to muscle thru heavy woods like oak.

Almost two years ago I was preparing to upgrade to a 3HP SawStop cabinet saw. I've used one, and they are really nice. But I delayed my purchase, and instead opted for a Festool track saw. Best decision I ever made. My decision to upgrade to the SawStop was mostly to handle sheet goods at the time, and the track saw does a phenomenal job in breaking down sheet goods, as well as subsequent final panel cuts.

I'll still get a SawStop at some point, but primarily for ripping 4/4 and thicker hardwoods, where the Ryobi struggles. Since you are limited to 110VAC, take a look at the SawStop cabinet saw that uses 110VAC, or even their new contractor-style saw, if you really want a table saw. Also, don't overlook adding 220VAC to your garage, and getting a mobile base for a cabinet saw. Either way, I'd avoid most cheap saws, I've used a number of them, and accuracy seems to always haunt you. That said, the BT3100 was pretty cheap, but has a real following. And you can find them used periodically. Tere is a forum devoted to them -- BT3Central.

If plywood projects are a big part of your future, consider a track saw. I am a Festool fan, but there are less expensive alternatives like DeWalt, Makita, Grizzly, and now even Triton. Watch some of the Festool track saw videos, and take a look at the Paulk Workbench videos. Ron Pau;k is a home builder that has designed a tear-down workbench to support using a Festool track saw. He has also adapted it to hold a small DeWalt table saw, and built in a router table. Ingenious design. His videos motivated me to build a permanent large track saw workbench (see alo the MFT workbench from Festool). I did not need portability, and I want a full sized bench, so I built my own "MFT-XL" based on the 20mm grid used by Festool. I machined the top from MDF, jsut like the MFT, just bigger (36" x 84").

Good luck -- lots of options to consider!

[glenn bradley]

Your use of the saw will drastically change the features that are important to you and generally the price. The Jet at lest has cabinet mounted trunnions so your ability to adjust for accuracy is greatly improved. Anyone who has tried to dial out the burning you get on table mounted trunnions when cutting long bevels (mitered corners for example) knows what I mean. If you will be making 99% of your cuts at 90* you can get almost anything aligned eventually and you never have to think about it again on a reasonable quality machine.

Things like the ease of operating the hand wheels seems trivial until the 47th time you've had to 'fight that stiff mechanism' ;-) Ease of guard, splitter or riving knife adjustment and/or removal come into play in my boox as does dust collection or the ease of adding it. It seems there are $100 contractor saws in the used market on a regular basis. It might pay to pick one up to use for awhile just to see what your requirements truly are. Once you know better, sell the used saw for what you paid for it and buy the saw you need.

Good luck and enjoy the hunt.

[Pat Barry]

I've got an older version of that Ridgid saw and I am very happy with it so, for the price especially, I think its a great machine. I like the wide capacity to the right of the blade for working plywood stuff. I think the power is plenty for anything a 10 inch blade needs to deal with. You willl want to make a sliding cross-cut table for it.

[Mike Schuch]

To me the most important attribute of a table saw is accuracy and the ability to keep its settings. A good portion of this is the fence and the fences ability to stay parallel to the blade. A solid lower end saw with a good fence will usually outperform a high end saw with a lousy fence. My Powermatic cabinet saw came with the older two tube fence system that locked on both the front and rear tubes. The front and rear locking was superior for keeping the fence from moving during a cut but the fence didn't inherently stay parallel to the blade. The fence worked fine but setting the fence for a cut was tedious. I would first measure from the bladed to the fence to set the cut width. I would then measure from the front of the fence to the miter slot and compare that measurement to the distance from the rear of the fence to the miter slot to make sure the fence was parallel to the blade. Like I said it was tedious. When I upgraded to a Vega fence the saw became much easier to use because the fence inherently stayed parallel to the blade.

The second most important feature to me is stability. A heavy cabinet saw is not easy to tip over when you have a heavy sheet of plywood being cut.

I would rate ease of use the third most important feature. With my Vega fence I can set the fence accurately in a couple of seconds. With the original tube fence it took closer to a minute to set the fence accurately.

My father had a good Rockwell contractor saw that he picked up used for $100. Even with it's stock fence is always did very well in accuracy, keeping its settings and stability. My fathers contractor saw was 2hp and never ran out power to get the job done. We even ripped some long 5" square teak posts in half for my sister (by making a cut then flipping the piece over to make a second final cut) easily on that saw. With a sharp thin kerf blade and a well aligned fence I would not fret over the motors power too much. If I am ripping some really thick hard wood on my 3hp 10" powermatic cabinet saw and the fence isn't parallel to the blade it will bind. My 5hp 12" powermatic cabinet saw will power through the same misaligned cut and just leave a really rough edge on the board. I have never had a kick back on a table saw but misaligned cuts is the best way to cause a kick back and my 5hp saw is more likely to kick back because it is less likely to bind the blade. When you are just learning and getting used to using a table saw you are much more likely to bind the blade or cause a kick back or bind the blade. Once you have developed a good technique your cuts will be smoother and easier.

I have worked on some very cheap table top table saws that would not maintain the blade alignment when the blade is tilted. As the blade tilts the back of the blade would move farther away from the fence than the front of the blade. Setting the blade back to 90 degrees would return the blade to alignment. This is just poor design and I highly doubt any of the saws you have listed would have this problem.

I grew up learning woodworking from my father on his Delta turret arm radial arm saw. I have ripped hundreds if not thousands of linear feet of lumber on that saw. I would not want to go back to ripping lumber on a radial arm saw! Although ripping on a RAS is very doable and can be performed safely I am much more comfortable ripping on a table saw. I do pretty much all my cross cutting on my 16" Red Star turret arm radial arm saw. Many woodworkers do all of their crosscutting on a table saw. For a lot of woodworkers the table saw is the center of the shop on which the majority of the work is performed. From this perspective it is worth it to invest in a saw that will suit you present needs as well as your needs as your skills and projects advance.

Of the saws you listed I think I would go for the Grizzly... although any of them should do well at getting the job done if the saw is aligned well.

A good solid out-feed table will do wonders in increasing the usability of any good table saw.

[lowell holmes]

There is an old saying,
"Buy an expensive tool and cry when you buy it, buy a cheap tool and cry every time you use it."
There is a difference between less expensive and cheap
.
I advised my son to get a Sawstop. He did, he bought a contractors saw. It was expensive, but it's the last saw he will have to buy.
The Ridgid saw has good write ups, it's probably a reasonable purchase.

I have a Delta 2000 contractor's saw with a table extension on it. It's been a great saw for me. It is 15 years old and has no measurable run out on the blade.

I personally would purchase the contractors Saw Stop if I were buying today. I almost cut my thumb off one time, and the emergency room expenses would have offset a major portion of the cost of the saw.

OBTW, I still have my thumb.

[William M Johnson]

+1 on the Festool Track Saw. I sold my PM 66 and now own a SawStop contractor version. The only things I use it for are dados and cutting multiple thin boards (think rails and stiles). Both of these could also be accomplished with the Festool System. I had a Eureka Zone track saw setup originally but sold it and delved deep into the Festool Kool Aid.

I will never break down plywood on a table saw again after using the track saw. Besides being easier the cut is much better because of the tearout prevention system built in. Angles are much easier as well. Having said this there are a couple of layout tools that are necessary. The main one is the Woodpecker TS 24-2 T square. Watch the video. Lastly they take up no room in the garage.

For me a table saw is a luxury not a necessity.

[Mike Fusick]

Usually the price changes with quality. I'd imagine the difference between a $500 saw and a $1500 saw to be a lot of little things, that add up if you will use it substantially. Thicker ply metal, wider rip capacity, more accurate fence, ability to rip left side blade, larger flatter top, more HP powerful motor, built in dust collection, riving knife, blade guards that you'll actually use rather than remove, ability to drop in router table top, longer warranty, etc....

If it's worth it to you is a personal decision based how you will use it.

That $550 Ridgid looks like a great value btw. Going to be hard to lose with that.

[Mike Fusick]

Oh and I do own a Festool REQ55 track saw and its excellent too. But to me they are different tools.

[Randy Red Bemont]

OK, I'm just going to keep it simple. I would go with the Grizzly. It can be run on 220v, has a 2HP motor, 30" rip capacity to the right of the blade, left tilting blade, riving knife, and comes in at 400+ pounds. It won't move when your cutting. It will easily handle a sheet of plywood. It will do as much and more than you will ever ask it to. Grizzly customer service is fantastic if you ever need to use it. All for $825. I would get a mobile base so you can move it around with ease. I have the Grizzly G1023RLX and love the saw. Good luck with your search but pick the saw that will do more than what your looking to (like y'all are telling me to do in a lathe) because down the road you may want to do more than you think right now.

Red

[Sam Murdoch]

+1 on the Festool Track Saw. I sold my PM 66 and now own a SawStop contractor version. The only things I use it for are dados and cutting multiple thin boards (think rails and stiles). Both of these could also be accomplished with the Festool System. I had a Eureka Zone track saw setup originally but sold it and delved deep into the Festool Kool Aid.

I will never break down plywood on a table saw again after using the track saw. Besides being easier the cut is much better because of the tearout prevention system built in. Angles are much easier as well. Having said this there are a couple of layout tools that are necessary. The main one is the Woodpecker TS 24-2 T square. Watch the video. Lastly they take up no room in the garage.

For me a table saw is a luxury not a necessity.

This is pretty much my take on the subject too - ESPECIALLY since you own a bandsaw. Without the bandsaw I would say that a T saw is essential for woodworking - other than processing sheet goods in which the track saw has far exceeded my expectations.

William writes above - "The only things I use it for are dados and cutting multiple thin boards (think rails and stiles). Both of these could also be accomplished with the Festool System." The second part of that quote is not so simple but yes you can do lots of dado work with a router and a guide rail but if you intend to do lots of woodworking such as building doors, drawers, face frames, solid wood tops etc. a table saw is a very useful tool. The brands you mention can all do the job with sharp blades and the essential riving knife.

The "playing around as a hobbyist" of the OP raise my concern flag because a table saw is a very unforgiving tool when inattention and casual use are factored in. Yes - all woodworking tools can be subjected to that qualifier but the bandsaw and track saw don't tend to throw things at you or reach out to drag your fingers into the spinning blade - just sayin...

HAVING SAID ALL THAT - +1 to what RED has written in the post above this one!

[John Huds0n]

... I would use a table saw for possibly making some furniture for my new house (so, cutting sheets of plywood, for example, miter joints for face frames, cross cutting for shelves maybe, that type of regular stuff). I'm pretty stuck on just having 120v tools, by the way, and my table saw would be mobile one way or another, because I'm just working with all my stuff out in the garage.
Steve

After reading what you wanted it for - I don't think you need a table saw at all

Put me in the "track saw" camp. That with a good Sliding Compound Miter Saw (SCMS) should pretty much coverage it.

[Jim Andrew]

First, I'd ask if you have plenty of room for a tablesaw? If you are short of room, more equipment is not always a plus. If you have room, I'd look for a good used cabinet saw. That is the one piece of equipment I see used regularly. Seems guys buy a new saw, find they don't use it and sell it on craigslist for a big discount.

[Kevin Wolfe]

I am kind of in your boat accept I am looking to start turning now. I had a dewalt hybrid table saw. I sold it And got a 17inch grizz band saw and dewalt track saw. I love the track and will never break down sheet goods any other way. First cut is the finish cut with it. I can use it to rip hard woods also. I also use my band saw for ripping followed by a light pass on the jointer.

[Pat Barry]

The track saw has an advantage for breaking down a large sheet of plywood but I can do that on my table saw too. Does the track saw do cross-cutting for shelves? Does the track saw do miters? Does the track saw do dadoes? Does the track saw do rabbets?

[Kevin Wolfe]

The track saw has an advantage for breaking down a large sheet of plywood but I can do that on my table saw too. Does the track saw do cross-cutting for shelves? Does the track saw do miters? Does the track saw do dadoes? Does the track saw do rabbets?

Actually yes it does. I bought a replacement festool mft top for $100 and some bench dogs. I can now make perfect 90 degree cross cuts and spot on miters. It does take longer to set up than a table saw, but at the end of the day, the result is the same and it takes up a fraction of the space. Not to mention it's easily portable.

I dont mean mean to toot the track saw horn, but I have been really happy with mine since i made the switch.

[Henry Kramer]

The track saw has an advantage for breaking down a large sheet of plywood but I can do that on my table saw too. Does the track saw do cross-cutting for shelves? Does the track saw do miters? Does the track saw do dadoes? Does the track saw do rabbets?

I'm with you Pat. My table saw (PM66) is the backbone of my shop. I have a 1956 DeWalt RAS set at 90 degrees for accurate cross cutting and a Makita SMS for miters but it's rare that I work on a project and the table saw isn't part of it. I would buy the best heaviest table saw that you can possibly afford and have room for and keep it a lifetime. 20-30 years from now you won't be sorry. You can probably buy a older Unisaw or PM66 for half of what a SawStop will cost and they still may out last the SawStop. Of course there is a lot to be said for the safety of a SawStop. Keep your fingers away from the blade no matter what table saw you end up with.

[Jim Matthews]

Steve - do you already own a decent circular saw?

The Eurekazone company sells an excellent track and mounting plate
to turn a stable circular saw into a track saw.

I use mine as you've described - on the rare occasion I want to break down plywood sheets.
The new plate sold by Eurekazone has a nifty design to reduce chipout.

The Festool system sets the standard, but that's long dollars to test the concept.

http://www.eurekazone.com/product_p/ezts108.htm

[Jack Jackson]

To answer part of the original question....

I have the older version of the Jet you linked to... In my opinion, it's not worth $1400, maybe $800ish. The difference in price is going to be a combination of increased horsepower, better rip fence and a lot of other little things, some that contribute to ease of use, some to functionality and some to just how good the fit and finish is.

Personally, I'd make sure you get at least 1 3/4 HP, a rip fence like the Grizzly has (Biesemeyer) and a riving knife... you have those three things and you'll be doing pretty good and won't have to "fight the tool" as much as something of lesser quality with less features.

Track saw is nice... but like you said, they're 2 completely different tools.

[Mike Schuch]

My father was 60 years old before he owned a table saw. He (we) always did everything on the radial arm saw... including ripping... safely!

It all depends on how you are comfortable working. If your main tool is a radial arm saw and that is what you do most of your work on that is what you need and a good one will serve you well. Same with a track saw... if that is what works best for you buy a good one and make good use of it. For many woodworkers the indispensable tool is a table saw and it is well worth investing in a good one. It all depends on how you like to work and probably which tool you were taught on. I had a nice Jet 5hp 18" bandsaw... I sold it. I never used it and it was just taking up space. That doesn't mean that a bandsaw can't be an indispensable goto tool for a different woodworker though. I would bet that a table saw is the central tool in more woodworking shops than any other saw. That doesn't mean that to me a radial arm saw would be the last tool to go if I had to choose just one to keep.

Of your table saw choices I still like the Grizzly the best. My table saw is a left tilt saw and I am completely lost if I have to do a bevel on a right tilt saw. I would definitely recommend getting a left tilt saw... many are very happy with their right tilt table saws though.

[Steve Paxman]

So much awesome information here. Thank you all so much for your insights. I've got a lot more research to do before I open my wallet, it appears. I had never even heard of these track saw set-ups before!

Thanks again!

[Roy Turbett]

I don't have any experience with the track saw setups but would definately consider one if space is an issue. As for tablesaws, I just upgraded to a Sawstop for safety but there are many good used tablesaws available on Craigslist including some older Craftsman saws with cast iron tops. Check out this video where Norm explains the difference between various tablesaws.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUMif8_XQRE

[Cary Falk]

It looks like all 3 saws have table mounted trunnions. Somebody correct me if I am wrong. The think I don't like about the Ridgid is the 2 piece aluminum extruded fence rail. I prefer the steel tube like the Grizzly and the Jet. That being said, the Jet is way overpriced for what you get as is most things by Jet these days. It is a shame that you can't do 220V. You could have a Grizzly cabinet saw for the cost of the Jet. I have the G1023RL and love it. If you have to have 110V then unfortunately your best bet is probably a used Uni with 1.5hp motor. You have to be careful because they can be a money pit by the time you get a good fence(not the jetlock some came with). The Uni also does not have a riving knife which I believe is a must on any saw.

Put me in the camp of the tracksaw is a poor substitute for a table saw. I have one but it will go long before my tablesaw will. It can do a lot of what a table saw can do but the jigging and the setup time would be huge. I could make most cuts on table saw faster than the tracksaw folks could get their saw out of their box. I also feel the bandsaw is also a poor substitute for a table saw also. It is closer than a tracksaw but the cut it leaves is not glue joint ready like a table saw.

[jay gill]

I have a previous version of the Ridgid, it is similar, and I am very happy with it. It was fully adjustable, and I liked the 36 rip capacity along with the built in wheels. I did get a saw gauge (http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/149019/Woodpeckers-Saw-Gauge.aspx ) to align the blade and the fence, and I couldn't be happier. Like a couple others, I did end up getting a track saw, and find it easier to break down sheet goods.

[Brian W Smith]

Not really a TS guy here...even though we have,and use daily(pro cabinet shop) some really nice ones.They're just a plain dumb design from the get-go.....like looking down the wrong end of a gun brrl?

BUT,one way of looking at them for discussion and enlightenment is;think sm..med...large.Obviously material costs more as the size goes up,doh.But you'll notice that the creature comforts go up as well.So you have the size first,then your budget...now temper that with some options(usually quality).

Another way is buy used...sell used.Actually a savy buyer can work their way up the quality ladder using this approach.

[scott spencer]

The biggest differences between the R4512 and the Jet Proshop are solid cast iron wings vs stamped steel, steel t-square style fence vs aluminum, cabinet mounted trunnions vs table mounted, 5-year warranty, 15 amp motor vs 13 amp, and generally better dealer support if you buy the Jet locally. The G0715P is more similar to the Jet, but has table mounted trunnions, a 1 year warranty, factory direct support, and a 16 amp 2hp motor that may require at circuit with higher amperage. Note that the R4512 and G0715P were both plagued by similar alignment issues a while back...hopefully that's been resolved, but can't be fixed if it exists.

All are capable.... setup and blade selection will be big contributors to the end performance.

[Randy Red Bemont]

Just to add that the Grizzly can be converted to 110v very easily if you don't have or want a 220v circuit.

Red

[Mike Fusick]

Routers can

[rudy de haas]

Steve:

Given what you plan to do you may want to consider getting two tools - a good track saw and a decent contractor saw. There are now several companies selling track saw products similar to Festool's and almost all the major brands now offer contractor saws like grizzly's G0732 offering a reasonable compromise between precision/stability and cost at 110/120 Volt 15 amp power. I would not recommend used for either because they tend to get beaten up, but you can often find bargains in mfg-er (or importer) year end or other sales - last year busybee tools in Canada had a sale in which they offered a machine very similar to the G0732 for (I think) $545 Cdn.

[Jared Sankovich]

Given what you plan to do you may want to consider getting two tools - a good track saw and a decent contractor saw.

This would be my suggestion.

I love my Makita track saw for breaking down sheet goods (to finished sizes), but i have no interest in trying to use it in place of my G1023.