Bailey #8 replace a motorized floor jointer?

[Jerry Olexa]

Ready to buy/rehab Bailey #8...Dumb question of week: can a #8 or similar fully replace a floor model motorized jointer? I can see that elbow grease is involved with a handplane but satisfaction/control is probably better? Any practical things I should consider? Thanks in advance..This non motorized approach is compelling..

[Steve Voigt]

I don't use a tailed jointer, and lots of others here don't as well. In my opinion it is the easiest machine to get rid of.

I would prefer a #7 or, even better, a woodie jointer; that #8 would wear me out. But some people love them.

[Chris Hachet]

I have used jointer planes vs tailed jointers for 30 years. Unless I was running a production shop building something like kitchen cabinets, I cannot see the point of owning one. If anything, buy really good wood pre surfaced and you will only have minimal work.

I use a wooden jointer ECE style/ulyma and it works fantastic. Some day I will buy a metal Veritas or LN jointer just to have another on site. But there are a million other tools I want first.

[Judson Green]

A 8 won't be nearly as fast but if woodworking is a hobby for you than speed probably isn't your concern. A little patience mastering the skill of using a jointer plane and you'll have joints (or flat/straight surfaces) just as good if not better than anything you've done with a powered jointer.

[Shawn Pixley]

I don't have a tailed jointer. I use my #7 a lot. When I am using it, it is my favorate plane ("I bet you say that to all the planes"). I have yet to need a tailed jointer.

[Jerry Olexa]

Good, common sense advice..You guys are converting me...Sounds like a 7 might be better...Then later, I sell my JET jointer (to buy more planes):D
Thanks..Good advice.

[Robert Hazelwood]

Edge jointing goes pretty quickly once you get the hang of it. I have both a #8 and a #7...I keep the 8 with a straight blade and I've cambered the #7 for a more aggressive cut. The #7 gets used to flatten faces of boards and correct a badly out of square edge (cambered blades are good at this) and the #8 can take finishing passes on a board face and edge. That's a nice system, but you could get by with either one and a mildly cambered blade.

My current method for stock prep is to flatten one face, joint an edge square to that face, and then mill the opposite face and edge (when stock width allows it) with a lunchbox planer. It's a nice balance between handwork and machine use. Also, the planer is useful for achieving consistent dimensions (thickness/width) from part to part - that can be difficult and time-consuming by hand. But flattening one face (at least to the point that it doesn't rock or bow on a flat surface, so that it can be fed through the planer) and jointing one edge is not too difficult.

[Frederick Skelly]

Good, common sense advice..You guys are converting me...Sounds like a 7 might be better...Then later, I sell my JET jointer (to buy more planes):D
Thanks..Good advice.

Hey Jerry, I got an LV BU Jointer last year. Its a nice tool.
Fred

[Judson Green]

Good, common sense advice..You guys are converting me...Sounds like a 7 might be better...Then later, I sell my JET jointer (to buy more planes):D
Thanks..Good advice.

Go for the 8. I use one for surfacing, and use a 7 for edge work. Either way its nice to have two jointers.

Though I do have a jointer (a 4" about the same length as an 8) I never use it. All surfacing and squaring is done with hand tools.

[Jim Koepke]

I used a #7 for a long time and felt a #8 wasn't necessary. Then one came my way at a price I couldn't refuse. Now the #8 gets more use for the heavy work and the #7 more for finish work.

So as others have said, it is nice having both.

BTW, there has never been a power jointer used in my shop.

jtk

[Brian Holcombe]

I have a 7 and it works well for me. I do complete dimensioning by hand for most projects. One of the best parts about jointing by hand is that you can take twist out without eating up a lot of material.

Get or make a set of winding sticks and straight edges. If you don't have a knife edge marking gauge that is something to get too.

Once I joint a face and edge for reference I will set my gauge for width and cut to width, then I set the gauge for thickness and make a line around the entire board. Cut to the line, check for flatness and you should be set.

[Matthew Hills]

Are we talking edge jointing or face jointing? (I seem to use a jack and straight-edges more for the face)

Matt

[Don Slaughter]

Jerry, I have a Stanley #8 and it is a great tool but it wears me out to use it. I also have an ECE jointer and it is a really great tool for flattening a large surface but my favorite is a Clifton #6......it is heavy but if doesn't seem to tire me out as much as any other. https://plus.google.com/photos/100343472905934603437/albums/5870503346535979409?banner=pwa&authkey=CMjikZXA9J3G5gE
Here you can see how it flattened my bench in about 15 minutes.
goodluck,
Don

[Joshua Hancock]

To answer your question, yes it can, but just be prepared for a learning curve. I think someone said it best here: don't expect the plane to do the work for you, you are going to have to use your head to make it flat.

It took me a few tries but once I got the change of it, I was face and edge jointing relatively quickly. Also a hand plane has no max width!

[Derek Cohen]

It depends ... on the wood you use, how much work you do, how fit you are, the space you have, finances ...

I predominantly use either salvaged old wood, which will be very dry and hard, or long lengths of air dried rough sawn sections that will require flattening and resawing. If there is a lot of wood to prepare, I have no hesitation in using a Hammer A3-31 jointer-thicknesser/planer. If there is a small piece or just a few sections to do, I use a jointer plane. Whatever is appropriate for the task.

The fun of handtool woodworking lies less in the rough work of preparing the timber, and more in the sizing, joint-making and finishing. Much of the work I do requires handtools. On the other hand it would be silly to ignore machines that compliment handtools. I do not view woodworking to be an "either - or" issue.

With jointers, I have found the extra width of #8 over the #7 to be a hinderance when pushing. It is unnecessarily wide. The advantage of the extra 2" in length of the #8 is negated by the extra width and weight.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Peter Gavin]

This was hinted at but not really addressed. For edge jointing, a 7 or 8 will pretty easily replace a powered jointer. For flattening faces, then you probably want to start with a scrub or a jack to take out twist and cup. If you are still going to be using a powered planer, then that will be pretty easy to go straight from the scrub or jack to the powered planer once the board is 'flat' (though it won't be smooth). In my opinion, this process has a much greater learning curve than just the edge jointing. If you are also going to forego the power planer, then you would go scrub to get it flat, jointer to remove scrub marks and smooth the surface and then a smoother to get the finish surface. Again, this would require a much greater learning curve but is certainly doable.

Peter

[Jerry Olexa]

That #8 must be a heavy beast,,,,Snow conditions here are preventing me from getting to acually see/buy the #8...Learning a lot here,,,sounds like in an ideal world, you'd have both a 7 and an 8, as well as a 4 and a 5 plus a shoulder plane etc.....But for speed, the Jet could still be used on a big project/cabinet when having to mill lots of pieces....In any case, I'm entering the slippery slope of the world of handplanes..My wallet may be shocked....Thanks again..

[Chris Hachet]

That #8 must be a heavy beast,,,,Snow conditions here are preventing me from getting to acually see/buy the #8...Learning a lot here,,,sounds like in an ideal world, you'd have both a 7 and an 8, as well as a 4 and a 5 plus a shoulder plane etc.....But for speed, the Jet could still be used on a big project/cabinet when having to mill lots of pieces....In any case, I'm entering the slippery slope of the world of handplanes..My wallet may be shocked....Thanks again..

Good luck. I find it really enjoyable to listen to the classical station or a baseball game when I work. This last weekend I went into my workshop to work on Sunday. I started work at 9:00 A.M., wasn't until about 2:30 or 3:00 that I turned on my first power tool.

Be aware that there are plenty of times one can use a hand tool that one does not want to use a power tool just from a physical exhaustion standpoint. Monday, a plumbing main backed sewage up into a building where I work, and we worked about 4 hours to snake the drain out. After dealing with that, the last thing I wanted was to mess with my table saw. But using a hand saw when I got home was rather quite and therapeutic....

After I took a shower and threw my clothes in the wash, of course!

[Daniel Rode]

I'm a hybrid woodworking and still fairly new to hand tools.

I like my powered jointer. It's a cheaper 6" but it's fast and does a good job. I use it all the time. However, I also use my #6 to flatten things wider than 6". It's slower and it takes more skill and effort, but it works well for table tops and such.

Even for narrow boards, I commonly use a hand plane and power jointer in combination. I take out a high spot or reduce twist with a hand plane, then take a pass on the jointer followed again by removing the jointer scallop marks with hand plane.

I don't want or need a #7 or #8. By and large, I true up the faces with a pair of #5s that have varying cambers on the iron and my #6. The #5s do the grunt work and the #6 gets cleanup duty.

I could get by without my powered jointer if I had to. My thickness planer would be harder to part with.

[Jim Koepke]

My wallet may be shocked....

From my #3 to my #8 bench planes the most expensive plane cost me $50 and that was the #8. There was also an investment in time with many of these to clean and tune them.

Here is the story on one restoration plane:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?114373-Fettling-A-Plane-from-Junker-to-Jointer

I sold my other #7 and still have this one in my shop. If my memory is working, this one is currently fitted with a Stanley blade.

Most of my Hock blades cost more than the planes in which they are used.

It is when you get into the specialty planes that the prices can start to climb. Though if one keeps looking deals can often be found in the strangest of places.

Here is to a fun ride down the slippery slope. :D

jtk

[Joshua Hancock]

To hit on what Derek Cohen said, it all comes down to your woodworking "personality". When I first started using rougher lumber from my local mill, I was very taken with the idea I could scrub and hand thickness it. For me that got old and tedious REAL quick. Bought a resaw blade from woodcraft bands, and a lunch box planer to mechanically thickness, and my shop time enjoyment shot through the roof. However I don't find hand flattening that tedious. I have nice table saw for dimensioning, but I find it rather tedious to spend a minute and a half to set it up. I rather spend the time, in some cases more time, setting up and using my hand tool alternatives like a rabbet plane or chisels......funny huh?

I have a Stanley #8....I love it, it fits my personality. I'm a fit, stocky military guy who loves a good explosion and machine guns (and dovetails, mortise and tenons....) Its heavy, stout, fits well in my hand and stops for nothing! It willcleanly shear knots in whatever I throw at it, and does the job well for me.

The whole point in my wall of text is that yes, it can completely replace a tail jointer. It did the job well long before a tail jointer was a twinkle of a brain fart in some tinkerers mind. But will it replace it for you in your wood working personality?

[John Vernier]

The real trick to using planes to replace a machine jointer is to get used to using a fairly aggressive jack plane in conjunction with a jointer plane. The no. 8 is a heavy beast but the bulk of board flattening work is done with something smaller. I use a no.5 with a very cambered blade, or a transitional jack which I find I like even better these days, and the jointer plane with minimal camber mostly just cleans things up. If I plan to run a board through my lunchbox planer for thicknessing, I often won't use the jointer plane at all. The planer will take out the jack plane tracks, so if I can take off high spots and twist sufficiently that the board looks good with winding sticks (or seems flat when checked against my benchtop), It's good to go. This speeds the work up considerably, although admittedly I need to budget considerably more time for board prep than I did when I worked with a 10" jointer at my disposal.

FWIW, I have and use no.6, 7 and 8 jointer planes, and I find the no.6 is what I reach for most of the time; particularly for any board which has already been rough cross-cut to usual furniture-scale lengths. I rarely use anything bigger for boards under 4' long.

[bill tindall]

"Dumb question of week: can a #8 or similar fully replace a floor model motorized jointer?" Do you really expect to be able to get useful advice for this question? People built fantastic furniture in 1720 so obviously if you have the motivation, time and skill you can do similarly. Do you? Or maybe you have no aspiration to build furniture. I have no idea so I have no basis for offering useful advice. And, without knowing what those the eschew machines make in a year or the free time they have to make it, you have no basis for judging if their advice suits your needs.

I recently completed a chest of drawers with nearly 100 individual parts (they add up) . Personally, I don't have the time or motivation to hand plane 100 parts for a piece of furniture I want to make. I would rather build more stuff by using machines where they replace apprentices.

[Jerry Olexa]

Wow I'm learning a lot from this thread but the slippery slope has started ..I'll give you a brief update :I went out today in a snowstorm and bought a number seven Bailey along with several other planes pretty good price but I'm not so sure I did the right thing .(I'll start A new thread with the pricing details etc.) but the new "old"number seven now humbly sits on my workbench . I'll start refinishing it etc. tonight or tomorrow..and BTW it is a heavy tool. But the 8 would be heavier..I'll keep you advised..Thanks again,

[Chris Hachet]

Wow I'm learning a lot from this thread but the slippery slope has started ..I'll give you a brief update :I went out today in a snowstorm and bought a number seven Bailey along with several other planes pretty good price but I'm not so sure I did the right thing .(I'll start A new thread with the pricing details etc.) but the new "old"number seven now humbly sits on my workbench . I'll start refinishing it etc. tonight or tomorrow..and BTW it is a heavy tool. But the 8 would be heavier..I'll keep you advised..Thanks again,

Good luck!

[ryan paulsen]

Thank you for this thread! I am just getting started in this whole woodworking obsession, and have learned a lot from this post as to what tools I need for surfacing rough lumber. I may similarly start heading down your slippery slope...

[Chris Hachet]

Thank you for this thread! I am just getting started in this whole woodworking obsession, and have learned a lot from this post as to what tools I need for surfacing rough lumber. I may similarly start heading down your slippery slope...

Please do. But don't think you have to give up power tools to enjoy hand tools.

However, hand tools are an addiction...just ask my wife!

[Jim Koepke]

Thank you for this thread! I am just getting started in this whole woodworking obsession, and have learned a lot from this post as to what tools I need for surfacing rough lumber. I may similarly start heading down your slippery slope...

Ryan, Welcome to the Creek.

As you have likely already read, surfacing rough lumber can be a lot of work with hand tools. Though it is somewhat its own reward.

I also recently acquired a bunch of oak. Not sure where your white oak's hardness is in comparison to my pin oak. Hope you are ready to sharpen.

Looking forward to see how your house build goes.

jtk

[Winton Applegate]

can a number 8 replace a . . .
No

can a # 8
NO
Look
what you need is several coarse jack planes (or my personal blasphemous preference is (((whispered in barely audible breath . . . a scrub plane SEVERAL . . shshsh))) . . .
just hear me out . .
And the key to all this . . .
what the old dudes used, in olden times, . . .
Enough, well maybe a spare to, enough indentured apprentices . . . slaves for short . . . to man those several planes.
then and only then are you going to replace your floor power tool with something even remotely as effective.

I don't have all that and cut all the wood with a few different hand planes and a whole lot of time but then I am a Neander and like it that way.

[glenn bradley]

Hey Jerry, I got an LV BU Jointer last year. Its a nice tool.
Fred

I also enjoy the LV BU jointer and would recommend it but, you'd have a fight on your hands if you come for my tailed machine ;-)

[Winton Applegate]

Seriously though
Unless you see your self pumping the big iron for fun and relaxation (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dE3dVlZ_z5g)
Or jointing really long boards
the JOINTER planes are just nice big things to have on the shelf and admire for their . . . well . . . bigness. Like a monster truck or an elephant. To quote W.C Fields "Nice to look at but I wouldn't want to own one".
I can say that because I own a couple (#7 jointers not elephants).

Nah dude, nah
See the photo that is all you need for even large surfaces such as table tops.
Due to popular demand and the dammed annoying scientific investigations that have come to my reluctant attention :cool::mad::):p:D:cool: you might want to replace the bevel up jack with a bevel down jack and BD finish plane but the bevel ups are what I have and I still love them (I have the bevel downs as well).

To recap :
Scrub plane
Jack plane
Finish plane

PS: oh . . . and a long straight edge but you will need that anyway (even to verify your floor power jointer).

[Winton Applegate]

sell my JET jointer (to buy more planes)

:cool: (((. . . hey . . . aaaaaaah . . . what are you asking . . . for the Jet ?)))
Kidding
I'm KIDDING. :p

[Chris Hachet]

Seriously though
Unless you see your self pumping the big iron for fun and relaxation (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dE3dVlZ_z5g)
Or jointing really long boards
the JOINTER planes are just nice big things to have on the shelf and admire for their . . . well . . . bigness. Like a monster truck or an elephant. To quote W.C Fields "Nice to look at but I wouldn't want to own one".
I can say that because I own a couple (#7 jointers not elephants).

Nah dude, nah
See the photo that is all you need for even large surfaces such as table tops.
Due to popular demand and the dammed annoying scientific investigations that have come to my reluctant attention :cool::mad::):p:D:cool: you might want to replace the bevel up jack with a bevel down jack and BD finish plane but the bevel ups are what I have and I still love them (I have the bevel downs as well).

To recap :
Scrub plane
Jack plane
Finish plane

PS: oh . . . and a long straight edge but you will need that anyway (even to verify your floor power jointer).

I love to see hand tools at work, even if I sometimes use power tools. Thanks for posting this.

[Brian Holcombe]

I use a BU jack in place of a scrub with a few blades handy all cut differently. They are heavily cambered, low angle (30 degrees) o1 steel, and a toothed blade.

I prefer to joint with a #7 BD Jointer. It's heavy, but I can and have used it literally all day and into the night. I have a precision microbevel on the blade with very little camber, I wax the sole then odd to the races. I have the chipbreaker set tightly but not as tight as one would for a finish plane so that I can take a heavy cut.

I'm not a large person or unusually strong, the trick to not being worn down by these tools is to wax the soles (I may have mentioned this :) ) and to push, do not bear down on the plane it will make your life difficult.

[Winton Applegate]

I can and have used it literally all day and into the night.

Well at least I can say that about my wireless computer key board. :)

Yes the #7s are beautiful tools and I play up the weight thing just so I have something to bang on about. It is true.

For any one here with a calculator and too much time on their hands, and education under their belt, it would be interesting to see the horse power difference break down. Roughly. Work over time for a scrub plane, because it is the lightest verses a #7 (or 8) doing the same rough flattening work.

Maybe I didn't word that right. The difference in energy expended between the two for the same result.

[Brian Holcombe]

LOL!

I think that would be a very difficult thing to calculate, but I would also be curious to know. I think the best one could hope to accomplish would be to figure out the difference in time to yield the same result.

I chose the 7 over the 8 for that reason (easier/lighter) but personally I find it tough to flatten a board with a jack. I like the long reference.

[Winton Applegate]

It doesn't seem that hard:
Same number of strokes. There AND back again
Same chip thickness.
times depth
times area
then take that result
A : times weight of scrub plane
B : times weight of jointer plane

Subtract A from B (or there a bouts)

Weep uncontrollably and feel tired.

Realize depth of cut for scrub can be a small but significant amount more due to energy savings over Jointer (or Jack).

Scrub = more "Powerful" tool (more work done in less time). Or well how ever you want to break that up.

PS: and there is the monstrous sole friction increase for the larger planes but hey
I'm a friendly easy going kind of bloke. I'll ignore that.
I did hear an engineer tell me that friction is independent of surface area but hard to believe in this case.

[Brian Holcombe]

I am sure that the jack and scrub would win in that regard, without even considering the added friction of a wider base and the added force required to create a wider cut in one chip.

From a practical perspective I find the longer reference to make the work easier. Why I don't then make the additional leap to the 8 is a bit odd at that point, but the argument of a lighter plane begins to make sense to me when comparing the merits of the two jointers.

It's my understanding that in Japan jointer planes are not very common, so I presume it is often how you like to work and there are many who do prefer the standard sized planes for all work.

You are my brother in arms (of scandi benches) but flattening with a jack is something I find rather difficult.

[Steve Voigt]

It doesn't seem that hard:
Same number of strokes. There AND back again
Same chip thickness.
times depth
times area
then take that result
A : times weight of scrub plane
B : times weight of jointer plane



Sounds to me like a great (albeit unintentional) argument for a wooden fore plane, around 18" long with a 2" iron. The weight is about the same as a metal jack, but the longer sole will get large boards flat much quicker, with less checking. It's not the same number of strokes, because of the wider iron. And the gentle furrows of the fore will plane out faster than the big trenches of the scrub.

The problem with the scrub mentality is the assumption that massive amounts of material have to be removed to get a board flat. That's rarely true (there are exceptions, of course). I have seen a vid of a certain well known woodworking author, who was Mister Biscuit Joiner before he was Mister Hand Tool, demonstrating flattening. He was scrubbing the board like a sailor scrubbing the deck of a ship. That doesn't make sense to me; flattening ought to be an almost surgical operation, carefully removing the high points til you bring them down to the low point. Wiley Horne wrote something I always remember; he said find the lowest point on the board, and that's your datum point. Every time you remove material from that point, you are setting yourself back.

For smaller boards a jack is nice, but for something like a tabletop, I prefer the wooden fore. A no.6 will do the same thing, but the weight is a real problem.

[Chris Hachet]

Interesting idea on the wooden fore. I have no trouble at all getting things flat with a jack, but then again I buy lumber pre surfaced and am in the process of taking out small irregularities. For larger stuff I have a wooden jointer.

[Kees Heiden]

The jointer plane is originally a tool for edges. For large surfaces the tryplane would be the choice, after doing the rough work with a fore plane. The try plane was shorter then the jointer. But the wooden versions were usually a bit longer then a #7 and a #8.

A table top doesn't need to be ultra precise flat, so you can get along with a shorter plane. But removing the rough saw marks, the cup, the bow and the twist, a foreplane or a jack plane is indeed a much better idea. A scrub is more a tool for thicknessing. For flattening it is often way too coarse and only making more work.

[Brian Holcombe]

I'd make the case for the table bottom needing to be super flat. Makes life much easier when attaching joinery.

[Jerry Olexa]

Continuing to learn..I bought an older #7 Bailey few days ago and working on it now.. Seems the consensus here is that you really should have both... for the bigger heavier projects a motorized jointer (whoops did I say that?)to save time and for every day use, a number seven or number eight..in any case, the fun continues..thanks again.

[Brian Holcombe]

Depending on what your projects involve you may find flatting by hand to be the only option for really big stuff (if you get into that).

I had one table that I needed to remove 1/2" of material off the top, so I flattened it by hand, then brought it to a local shop to have it cut down to thickness on a Time Saver machine (large belt sander which works like a planer). There is practically no one around here with a jointer large enough to handle tabletops. Most of the commercial shops which turn out slab tables will joint by hand held power planer, which basically works in the same capacity as a big jointer plane with the exception that you can take a very large cut and that there is a cutter head.

[Harold Burrell]

Continuing to learn..I bought an older #7 Bailey few days ago and working on it now.. Seems the consensus here is that you really should have both... for the bigger heavier projects a motorized jointer (whoops did I say that?)to save time and for every day use, a number seven or number eight..in any case, the fun continues..thanks again.

Yeah...I have and use both (actually, I have all 3. A power jointer, a #7 AND a #8.)

I have no plans of parting with any of them.

As much as I am enjoying working more and more with hand tools, when it comes to dimensioning a LOT of lumber, well...I unashamedly slay electrons.

[Winton Applegate]

Ha, ha,
Allow me to relate a side comment.
PLEASE DO NOT BE OFFENDED BY IT. It is part jest but often true in my little area of the world.
When one of my customers comes in the door and starts calling me "Bro" it means (almost invariably) that he is about to tell me he has little or no money and will even go so far as to show me the ten dollar bill that is all the money he has in the world.

Long story short by the time he leaves he has borrowed half the tools in the shop to "do the work himself", broken some of said tools, had every one of us answer, re-answer and then do the work for him for free just to get him on his way so we can do the work we are getting paid to do.
If then he calls us "Brother" when he is on the way out the door for the blessed last time . . . invariably . . . if we get the "Brother" from him . . . it means he as stollen something or other wise worked us over for something we discover after he has gone.

Oh and some where in the process he opens his wallet or digs out a pile of stuff in his pockets and accidentally exposes at least a fifty dollar bill but often, almost every time, a hundred dollar bill.

So Bro and Brother to me makes me start back pedaling, from natural reflex, and putting my hand on my wallet. :o


flattening with a jack is something I find rather difficult.

Meaning the long # 7 or 8 is easier because it acts as a guide to create the flat surface rather than making a bunch of unnecessary undulations with the scrub ?

What I find is I have to check the surface with a winding stick and or long straight edge and I just plane on the high spots until they are ever so slight hollows and the edges of the wide surface finally becomes the high spot all around the perimeter and then take that off with the jointer/jack or even finish plane.

So really there is no danger unless you start planing all the way across the surface with the scrub beyond the high spots to take down over all thickness with the scrub but really if you do consistent strokes across the grain for the length of the plank then no real problem.

What I found was the blade in the long plane dulls faster trying to take prettier smoother passes and it dulls and by the time I am part way down the table top the blade is getting so dull it starts to rise up out of the wood and the plane teeters on the blade edge and I am making a less flat surface than with a more cambered blade cross grain.

I know that doesn't quite make sense. But is my experience when I was trying to flatten the big hard surface shown in my photos (and my purple heart bench before that).
My mistakes during that time include :
I didn't set the chip breaker close enough but I was trying to take really heavy cuts AFTER ALL THE GAME IS TO FLATTEN HENCE TAKE OFF A LOT OF WOOD FAST. Chip breaker closer apparently means less edge wear and effort so I may have survived it with more attention to that.
I am fairly light so I flail the scrub like a sewing machine and can not really do that with the #7 etc.
I didn't find it practical for table top widths to lay the plane on it's side and "try" the surface as in try plane. It was easier faster smarter to just do that with the straight edge and mark all the high spots with the lumber crayon which I would have had to do with the winding sticks to check for wind anyway.

Really the usefulness of a JOINTER plane to flatten a table escapes me. It is for jointing long boards in my experience and then only marginally "better" than a jack. Still have to check it with the straight edge and or the mating board.

[Winton Applegate]

It's not the same number of strokes, because of the wider iron

That is assuming one can push that wide a blade for the same depth. I think, for me at least I wind up cambering the heck out of the wider blade out of necessity / trial and error and only taking a small portion of the blade width as a ribbon. So may as well use a narrower blade even if it is in a long jointer or jack plane.


The problem with the scrub mentality is the assumption that massive amounts of material have to be removed to get a board flat.

From my examples shown here (the wide bubbinga table and the work bench) I will relate my real world experience. In those cases which might be extreme but is now my habit.

The sub planks/assemblies of planks (I didn't glue up all at once) . . . I planed those perfectly flat and realistically (in hind sight) tooooo smooth then glued, clamped and aligned with great pains to make it all flat and as good as possible.

I made the assumption from there it would be a matter of some finish planing.
Nope
Still had to try the jointer, then the jack, then busss out the scrub to get things back to perfection.


Wiley Horne wrote something I always remember; he said find the lowest point on the board, and that's your datum point. Every time you remove material from that point, you are setting yourself back.

Truer words were never spoken. I wish I had heard that when I was trying to learn this.

I came to that realization over time while working on the larger surfaces. I mark the low spots with red crayon and the high spots with blue or black.

As far as wooden planes yes they are superior from a weight and low sole friction point of view. I have learned to appreciate them in hind sight. I got sucked into the iron plane thing and I really enjoy them from a viewer's perspective. Too there were no, good quality, wooden planes in the Wood Craft store for me to ogle and try out. I only later began to look at wooden planes.

PS: and there is the whole chip breaker argument being better. Double iron in the woodie.

[Brian Holcombe]

Lol. Brother in Arms is of a higher status than bro or brother, so I will not need to barrow money :p.

The first time I ran my jointer down white oak it just skated on the tip of the blade. So there are a couple of things that I did with the jointer to make it cut like a dream on harder stuff like white oak. The first was to set a higher bevel on the blade, the LN blades straight from LN measured something like 27 degrees and it was dulling without fail. My blade is set to about 32 degrees and is honed to 8k (Snow White). I have the faintest bit of camber in the blade, it is barely noticeable. The bevel is precision, not one of those round-over jobs.

Next was the chip breaker, I undercut the leading edge on the chip breaker because it would reveal a slight gap under pressure and catch everything. I then cut a secondary bevel on it.

I set the chip breaker close to the edge, like .030"~. Far enough that I can take a heavy cut, but not so much that it is not doing it's job.

Last I have the mouth set loose, not huge but enough that it is not a hindrance.

Mind you, but the time I'm using the jointer I have already done the bulk of the stock removal cross grain with a jack. So I'm already levelled out and the twist is removed. I'm minding the wind and flattening. I generally do not take a full length cut. I cut between the edges to dish out the surface, then finish with full length passes.