Questions on lacquer finish.

[Greg McClurg]

Hi all,

I don't very often, but read the formum daily. I have a couple of questions on how you handle using lacquer in a cold climate. My shop gets somewhat cold in the winter and usually I only get it warmed up to around 60 degrees. I know you should keep the lacquer warm, but will it cure well at 60 degrees? Does it make a difference whether using rattle can or brush on? Also, how do you deal with the fumes? That is the biggest reason I avoid using lacquer in the winter since I don't really want to open the windows to air the shop out.

Thanks for any advice you can share.

Greg

[John Sincerbeaux]

Hello Greg,
I would use 70 degrees as your min temp.
Heres what I do. I am sure some won't like this but again, this is what I have been doing for many years.
I have a laundry room in my house with a small window about two feet off the ground. A 20x20 box fan fits perfect in the window. I made a lazy susan finishing table about 16" dia. I then use 1/4" hardboard sides and a top to surround the window and lazy susan. I put a cheap 20x20" filter on the front and back of fan which sits on the window sill.
I run the fan on high and it completely exhausts all overspray and fumes. Set up is completely a knockdown system and works like a charm. You end up with warm, dry, and dust free spray booth. I use a professional spray gun hooked up to a 1 gal pressure pot.
Hope that helps. Lacquer is probably the easiest finish to apply but it likes to be warm and dry.

[Thom Sturgill]

As John says 'warm and dry' Lacquer has a 70-70 rule - Minimum 70 degree and maximun 70 percent humidity to prevent blushing. Only comment on the fan in the window is that if using water based finishes that's fine but for solvent based there is a fire risk if the fan is not fire rated. The same issue applies to paint booth lighting - buy explosion proof fixtures, especially if spraying in confined quarters.

Depending on the size of items to be sprayed you can make a box that vents through a 4" hose and not lose all of the heat in the room. Testors, Paasche, and Artograph all make models - small ones for airbrush as cheap as $60 and ranging up into the several hundred dollar mark.

[Dave Mcintire]

Some years ago, a group of Pa Dutch guys were making furniture in a barn. They were spraying lacquer in a small confined room to keep out the dust. They had an air compressor in the room. One day the the place practically exploded, the guys got out but barely. The barn burned down. The "forensic analysis" determined that the lacquer fumes were pulled through the open drip proof frame of the compressor motor and eventually dissolved the insulation off, resulting in a spark-you know the rest. This was the second time they burned down the same barn, first time was welding around mountains of saw dust and spider webs.
Both times their community threw up a new barn in a few days, there,s more to the story but they were finally convinced to go back to farming.
So, I would be Leary of a fan exhausting lacquer fumes in my house.

[John Sincerbeaux]

I told you there would be guys that didn't like my system. :)
i would have been leery too had I not seen so many woodworkers and painters using regular box fans. 10+ years now and so far so good. If the house blows, my wife is sure going to miss her new washer and dryer:)
P.S. I spray NC lacquer.

[Greg McClurg]

Thanks everyone for your suggestions. I can keep the lacquer at 70 degrees, but getting my shop that warm will probably have to wait until spring.

Greg

[Bob Bergstrom]

If you have access to warm water place the rattle can in it prior to spraying. It will flow out better. I use Mohawk lacquer in the can and spray my bowls on the front porch in 10 degree weather. I leave the bowl outside, but bring the can back in. In ten or so minutes I spray the interior of the bowl. I wait another 15 minutes and bring the bowl in. Been doing it this way for 5 years with no problems. I do use Forby oil as a base coat followed by #0000 steel wool. Then I spay over the cured oil. Glass smooth finish in a couple coats.

[Al Wasser]

Greg---- Fellow Coloradoan, I can heat my shop as much as I want but rarely above 60, or at least that is where the thermostat is set. I don't use a lot of lacquer in the winter but I have no problem getting it dry at 60. I most often just wipe it on with a paper towel. Take the item to be coated into the house to warm up before applying the finish in the shop --- that also will help some

[Greg McClurg]

Thanks Bob and Al. I'll give those methods a try.

[Stan Smith]

I've tried to use Deft, both spray can and by brush, in my cold garage in the past. Well, as everybody knows (except me at the time) the finish came out milky. I now use wipe on poly. I warm the shop area with one of those round disk heaters from Costco. I apply the wipe on poly, which doesn't take but a few minutes. I then immediately take the item in to the master bath to dry. There are no toxic fumes, but I close the door anyway. The next day it's back to the shop for another coat. I might repeat this up to 4 times for one project. I do have an Earlex hvlp sprayer, but I only spray water based finish and don't use it during the winter time.

[robert baccus]

I spray PC lacquer above 50 deg with no problem. I have a semi-powerful fan just inches behind the lathe--gotton away with it for 25 years?? The fogging problem isn't one if you have a spray-gun. I have to add lacquer retarder most days here in the wet south. Prevents fogging and helps flowout as well. It is merely a slower drying thinner which keeps your drying slower, less cold, trapping less water in the lacquer.

[Bob Bergstrom]

I spray PC lacquer above 50 deg with no problem. I have a semi-powerful fan just inches behind the lathe--gotton away with it for 25 years?? The fogging problem isn't one if you have a spray-gun. I have to add lacquer retarder most days here in the wet south. Prevents fogging and helps flowout as well. It is merely a slower drying thinner which keeps your drying slower, less cold, trapping less water in the lacquer.

and the cheaper the lacquer or the thinner the faster the flash time the more likely the trapped moisture. Retarder is great for flow out, but can be the cause of runs on vertical surfaces.

[Prashun Patel]

Greg-
I spray Deft often. In the summer months in NJ I find that is sprays with no effort. I've sprayed it thick, thinned, too aggressively, not aggressively enough. It is so darn forgiving and looks wonderful (at least the semigloss and satin products).

But in the winter I am having problems refinishing my kitchen table. It seems to dry rough and slightly spotty for me. It's passable, but not the joy I experience in the warmer temps. I have tried a variety of things to achieve good venting while keeping the temp up, but have concluded that for me it'll just be simpler to wait until Spring (lacking a proper booth).

[Bruce Lewane]

I've been using Deft for 30 some years. 50 degrees is as low as I will go and is kind of iffy at best. 80 with 30% humidity is perfect. Let's face it. Finishing in the winter with lacquer is not easy. Poly is more forgiving but, honestly, makes wood look like plastic. IMHO. Seeing as though I heat my shop with gas I will not spray, period in the winter.
It'll just have to wait.

[robert baccus]

Try a small amount of retarder in your mix(small amount is witchcraft) as it really help on flowout and preventing orangepeel. I have even saved badly orangepeeled pieces by spraying on only retarder (witchcraft).

[Bob Bergstrom]

Try a small amount of retarder in your mix(small amount is witchcraft) as it really help on flowout and preventing orangepeel. I have even saved badly orangepeeled pieces by spraying on only retarder (witchcraft).
+ 1 on retarder for table tops. Retarder slows the drying time increasing the flow out also releasing any trapped moisture. Works great on the horizontal, but may increase runs on a vertical surface. More expensive thinners have better drying solvents than the cheap thinners. Always buy a good thinner.

[Prashun Patel]

Can you recommend a good lacquer thinner, Bob? I always buy the one at BORG.

[Richard Hutchings]

More expensive thinners have better drying solvents than the cheap thinners. Always buy a good thinner.
I learned this the hard way when I was spraying mandolins. When I got away from the hardware store stuff and bought recommended thinner for my lacquer, the results were night and day. Use the cheap stuff for cleaning your equipment.

[robert baccus]

I've always tried to improve on techniques and materials. I use Mohawk brand lac.,thinner and sanding sealer. Good SS is harder to find than lacquer. They still make heavybodies ss that sands like crazy. I gave up on the cheaper brands long ago. Would you buy a new Mercedes in Lowew's? PS I do 90% of my spraying on the lathe slowly turning. Also all the sanding and buffing.

[Bob Bergstrom]

Can you recommend a good lacquer thinner, Bob? I always buy the one at BORG.
Here's an article on types of thinners. http://www.hirshfields.com/contractors/contractors_lacq1.html
the better ones would be sold in paint stores like Sherwinn Williams. I've used both Menard's and Borg. If the humidity is high enough they all will blush. Most times it will come out with the next coat with some retarder. I spray as much of my cabinet work by avoiding vertical spaying as much as possible. Bowls will run more with deep vertical walls, especilly on the inside where the evaporation is slower.

[robert baccus]

Google up guitar makers --they often mention their favorite brands and even techniques.