Glue Line Rip Blades

[Mike Cozad]

I have been doing the research on dedicated use blades for my table saw and radio alarm saw rather than using combination blades all the time. As I started reviewing glue line rip blades, there seems to be a lot of negative press about Freud blades. From bad coatings that deteriorate on the ICE coated blades to bad wobble in the Diablo line. I went to Amazon looking for alternatives and found CMT. I also found some folks really talking up FSTool glue line rip blades.

Since most of the info on the Creek is older on this topic I thought I would ask for some current feedback on alternatives to Freud. I am also interested to hear Creekers' feedback on the Freud blades, if the problems I mentioned above have ever been noted by any of you. I'm trying to sort out if its just people ranting and they are really suffering from poor machine setup.

Thanks for any feedback.

[Art Mann]

I have bought a lot of Freud blades over the last 40 years and my experience has been mostly very good. I think they are a good value. Of course a $45 40 tooth Freud combination blade will not perform as well as a $150 Forrest 40 tooth combination blade. If you want to buy a good Freud blade, you are going to have to pay for it. When comparing blades from different companies, you have to compare products in the same class.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Mike,

I have had excellent results with an Infinity glue line rip blade on my table saw.

[Brett Luna]

+1 for Infinity. I have the GLR and a nice cross cut blade from them.

[Rick Potter]

I have half a dozen Freud industrial 24 tooth glue line blades, I got for about $18 each when Sears closed them out. Absolutely no problem with them, and I have almost polished edges on ripping red oak. I often glue them up right off the saw.

[Larry Edgerton]

FS Tool rip blades are the best I have ever tried. I have one in my Minimax that is so good I have to get my glasses to tell the difference between the jointed side and the ripped side.

[Peter Quinn]

I have a freud TK glue line blade for the home shop, absolutely no issues with it short of it flexing a bit if leaned on, but that's a thin kerf issue. I also use the full kerf version at work, very good results. Amana makes a pretty good version of the glue line blade too.

[Mike Cutler]

I have Forrest's, CMT's, Amana's, and Freud's. My experience with the Freud's is positive.
There was a period where their product line was a little sketchy, actually considered junky, but over the last 10-12 years or so they've been selling a quality product that represent a good value. I use their router bits and circular saw blades also. Truth be told there was a period when the Forrest line of blades were breaking off teeth and slinging them around. Within a product line there can be inconsistencies, but it's how the manufacturer addresses the issues that counts.

So much of the cut quality to be realized, with any blade, is the machine setup and technique. If either is off, I don't care how much a blade costs, the results will be less than expected.

[Rich Engelhardt]

I have two of the Freud full kerf Glue Line Rip blades.

I bought them a few years ago - - prior to the Freud deal with Bosch. (why is it that those types of deals always spell trouble?)

Side drift.......
Interesting - - I was looking up when Bosch acquired Freud (late 2008) and ran across an article about Irwin Marples blades.

"IRWIN has partnered with Giorgio Pozzo, CEO and owner of FLAI saw blade manufacturing in Udine, Italy."

http://www.aconcordcarpenter.com/irwin-marples-woodworking-series-saw-blades.html

Udine is where Freud made their blades and Pozzo is one of the members of the family that sold Freud to Bosch.

[Lee Schierer]

I just purchased a 30 tooth Freud Glue Line rip blade. I used it just last week to rip some maple boards. It worked very well and the cut was smooth enough to glue if one did not have a jointer. I've had the blade for just a few weeks, but so far there have been no issues. I also saw some of the negative reviews on this blade before I purchased it. I have a Freud blade that is at least 20 years old and it still works great. I suspect that in many of the cases that the saws they were being used on were not well aligned. I have used 5 or 6 different Freud Blades and have liked what they do. I damaged one Freud blade and when I got in touch with Freud about what happened they replaced the blade at no cost even though the damage had been caused by a poor setup on my part. I've seen cuts done by other more costly blades and none are any better than what I get on my Freud blades.

I cannot speak for their Diablo blades as I have never used one of them

[Robert LaPlaca]

I have a Freud LM74R glue line rip, it's a wonderful blade. I bought it to rip some super hard and dense 12/4 and 16/4 Mahogany, although I wouldn't use the cut line right off the blade, one certainly could.

[George Bokros]

I have several Freud blades for the table saw (a combo and a full kerf GL rip),and one in my miter saw and they work very well. I have had the two for the table saw sharpened locally, Freud approved service provider, and they work at least as well if not better than when new. I also have a Diablo blade in my EZ track saw for breaking down sheet goods and it works very well.

No complaints from me.

[Larry Frank]

I am with the others...I have several of the Freud blades with no problems at all.

If you read reviews on Amazon you will find negative reviews on almost any product.

[Rod Sheridan]

FS Tool rip blades are the best I have ever tried. I have one in my Minimax that is so good I have to get my glasses to tell the difference between the jointed side and the ripped side.

Agreed, I have one also, great blades and made in North America..............Regards, Rod.

[Jim Becker]

I am of the mind that "most" sharp blades are capable of giving you a so-called "glue line rip" cut relative to the quality of the actual cut surface. Obviously, some blade and tooth designs will provide a smoother cut surface , but "sharp" is pretty important.

Just to add a little to the discussion, the real challenge relative to "glue line rips" is material handling. It's extremely difficult for a human to move the material through the cut without minor deviations on a traditional cabinet or contractor's style saw. The machine itself must be in excellent blade/fence alignment, use of a riving knife helps and sometimes it also means using mechanical aids to keep the board tight to the fence through the cut. So if you have a "glue line rip" blade and are not getting good, straight surfaces you are comfortable going right to assembly of a panel, check your saw's alignment and your cutting technique if the blade is, in fact, sharp.

This is one operation where sliders have an edge because the board can be clamped down to the wagon (the sliding part) so it doesn't move a proverbial hair laterally through the entire cut. Of course, narrow rips still most often require use of the fence, so the same techniques to keep the cut motion steady are necessary for a perfectly straight rip cut.

[Myk Rian]

For my Radio Alarm Saw I use a Freud LU91m0xx series blade. -5º rake to prevent it from climbing.
I've never had a Freud blade wobble, and that's the only brand I buy.

[glenn bradley]

I'll echo Jim's comments. I can imagine failed coatings and poor results to be more a factor of machine setup and operator technique than a poor blade. The Diablo's are what they are and should not be confused with Freud's higher end products. My opinion may be biased as I never had any problems with my Freud blades. Or maybe I never had any problems with my Freud blades due to proper machine setup and stock control.

I could definitely go to glue-up from the edges left by my Freud 24 tooth thin kerf rip blade. The 30 tooth TK gave similar performance on my saw so I really didn't prefer one or the other. I now run full kerf 30 tooth Carbide Processors (http://www.carbideprocessors.com/Carbide-Processors/Worlds-Best-Saw-Blades/) blades for ripping and really pretty much any cut is glue ready if I control the stock. That is; if I am not just ripping things down quickly without expecting a perfect edge. When I am after perfect results, I use Grr-Rippers for shorter pieces and featherboards and push blocks for longer stock. I use a consistent rate of feed and keep firm control of the material throughout the cut.

As stated, any new blade will give you that "wow" factor. My Carbide Processor 30 tooth has been run for a year or so and still gives an edge that can go straight to glue-up. The only sign that it may be time for a trip to the sharpeners is a bit more feedback while feeding the stock. There are a few top quality blade makers that offer blades that, once you factor in how many sharpenings you can get out of them, make good financial sense. The customer service at CP is top notch and Tom Waltz is a member here.

[Peter Quinn]

I am of the mind that "most" sharp blades are capable of giving you a so-called "glue line rip" cut relative to the quality of the actual cut surface. Obviously, some blade and tooth designs will provide a smoother cut surface , but "sharp" is pretty important.

Just to add a little to the discussion, the real challenge relative to "glue line rips" is material handling. It's extremely difficult for a human to move the material through the cut without minor deviations on a traditional cabinet or contractor's style saw. The machine itself must be in excellent blade/fence alignment, use of a riving knife helps and sometimes it also means using mechanical aids to keep the board tight to the fence through the cut. So if you have a "glue line rip" blade and are not getting good, straight surfaces you are comfortable going right to assembly of a panel, check your saw's alignment and your cutting technique if the blade is, in fact, sharp.

This is one operation where sliders have an edge because the board can be clamped down to the wagon (the sliding part) so it doesn't move a proverbial hair laterally through the entire cut. Of course, narrow rips still most often require use of the fence, so the same techniques to keep the cut motion steady are necessary for a perfectly straight rip cut.

With a feeder on a standard cabinet saw I feel the slider/carriage rip had little advantage and perhaps a slight disadvantage relative to cut quality. Few in the home shop seem to have them, every pro shop I've been in makes extensive use of stock feeders on the cabinet saw. Particularly useful on beveled rips.

[Joe Spear]

For rips of 3/4" or 1" wood I get glue-up quality cuts with my Forrest WW II 40-tooth blade, pushing by hand.

[Stew Hagerty]

I've exclusively used Freud for years. I do use their Thin Kerf blades (except for my Chop Saw) since I have an 80's vintage Craftsman saw. I keep their 50T Combo blade installed most of the time. But if I am doing a lot of ripping, or cutting plywood, or if I am doing some precision cutting of smaller parts I switch to one of their specialty blades. I've yet to have any issue with them.

[Harold Burrell]

My Carbide Processor 30 tooth has been run for a year or so and still gives an edge that can go straight to glue-up. The only sign that it may be time for a trip to the sharpeners is a bit more feedback while feeding the stock. There are a few top quality blade makers that offer blades that, once you factor in how many sharpenings you can get out of them, make good financial sense. The customer service at CP is top notch and Tom Waltz is a member here.

+1!

I own this: http://www.carbideprocessors.com/worlds-best-37207-glue-joint-rip-saw-blades/ and it is SWE-E-E-E-ET!!!!!!!

[Raymond Fries]

I have the Freud 30 TPI glue line rip and have been very happy with the results. I have all Freud blades except for one Forrest blade. Freus is a good brand. I do not think you can go wrong with any of the premium blades.

[jack duren]

Freud is ok, but if I want long productive life I use Amana. Last twice as long as freud between sharpening.

[Jim Becker]

With a feeder on a standard cabinet saw I feel the slider/carriage rip had little advantage and perhaps a slight disadvantage relative to cut quality. Few in the home shop seem to have them, every pro shop I've been in makes extensive use of stock feeders on the cabinet saw. Particularly useful on beveled rips.
You are beautifully supporting my point... :) The Feeder provides controlled material handling. But as you state, few home shop users have them; which is similar to the fact that few home shop users have sliders, too. As Bruce pointed out, feather boards/Board Buddies, etc., really can help when the rip is critical.

[Mike Cozad]

Great information to help me in my search. I had forgotten about Carbide Processors. That is certainly an option. I also mistakenly assumed the red coating meant it was a Diablo blade. As I resumed researching tonight it was obvious I was missed the mark on that one and makes sifting through the reviews much easier.

Very little feedback here on the CMT blades. Curious if that's just due to few folks actually buying them.

Thanks for the great info. Definitely helped me become better educated.

Mike

[Chris Padilla]

50% blade sharpness/quality; 50% table saw alignment; 50% operator. ;)

[Clay Fails]

Sounds like most everyone goes to glue-up right off the saw blade. I almost always run a jointer plane along the edges prior to glue-up. I usually also spring the joint slightly. This approach has worked well for me. Maybe I will experiment with gluing off the saw blade and see if I notice any differences. That would certainly save some time.

[Stew Hagerty]

Sounds like most everyone goes to glue-up right off the saw blade. I almost always run a jointer plane along the edges prior to glue-up. I usually also spring the joint slightly. This approach has worked well for me. Maybe I will experiment with gluing off the saw blade and see if I notice any differences. That would certainly save some time.

I'm with you Clay. I typically take a swipe or two with my trusty #8. I have tried springing, but rarely do it.

[Jim Andrew]

Some time back my local Menards was closing out their Bosch rip blades. I bought one and tried it, found it to be pretty good, so next time I was there I bought the rest. Didn't realize they own Freud.

[Viking Mountain Tool Works]

I have had fantastic results with my WWII Blade that I purchased ten tears ago. I was amazed at how clean the cross cuts were. Are they still as high a quality blade as the used to be?

[Bruce Wrenn]

Almost any quality blade will produce "glue line rips." I own Freud 30 tooth glue line, Forest WWI, Delta 7657 (best blade for the buck!) Freud 50 tooth combo blade, and several other quality blades. All produce glue line rips, when the feed is kept uniform. Key is to keep feed rate uniform.

[Viking Mountain Tool Works]

Yes I meant to add that you need a solid fence, feather boards will help, a stiffener can help, particularly with a thin kerf blade.

Scott

[Mike Schuch]

I have a couple 15" and a 16" Freud Ultimate cut off blades for my radial arm saw. They cut beautifully and leave an edge so smooth it is shiny in a hard species like maple or Ipe.

I have a couple of 10" Freud glue line rip blades for my table saw and they work well. I would not call them the best blade other but I haven't used that many other brands.

My 12" CMT dado set that I use in my RAS does a magnificent job and leaves very nice flat bottoms. Only problem with the CMT dado set is that is sounds like a turbo jet when running. You can really hear the air trying to get out of the way.

[JUSTIN HUISENGA]

+3 on the FS Tool blades. Across the board the truest, cleanest cutting blades I have used. Generous carbide size. Very long lasting edges. Excellent cut quality. Reasonable price. I would recommend their LO3250 General Purpose 40 tooth blade as well. Does a good job on ripping short runs of 4/4 or under.

I run their blades in almost every saw I own in both my little shop and in the field.

[Dana Hargrove]

the guy at Woodcraft just rec'd me Freud glue line rip today. I forgot to tell him it was for ripping 3/4 ply at a 45 mitre edge. Do you think that would have changed his rec?

[Gerry Grzadzinski]

Yes. You don't want to use a rip blade on plywood.

[Dana Hargrove]

oh poop, now i have to go back to the store. I did tell him it was needed for splintering ply, i just forgot to tell him the 45 degree part.

[Greg R Bradley]

Rip blade and plywood are not compatible. The 45 degree part doesn't matter, I believe.

This doesn't quite add up.

Also, are you using actual plywood or the junk that is sold by the BORGs? Concerned about the "splintering ply" reference. I've just cut up some decent Baltic Birch provided by an actual lumber supplier with the stock 28 tooth blade that came with a new jobsite Saw with basically no problems.

[Jeffrey Spitler]

without a doubt, i have been most impressed with all the blades Forrest has to offer. i run those in all my saws: mitre saw, table saw, and vertical panel saw.

[Frederick Skelly]

I have bought a lot of Freud blades over the last 40 years and my experience has been mostly very good. I think they are a good value. Of course a $45 40 tooth Freud combination blade will not perform as well as a $150 Forrest 40 tooth combination blade. If you want to buy a good Freud blade, you are going to have to pay for it. When comparing blades from different companies, you have to compare products in the same class.

Interesting thread Mike! I also have a $50 Freud combo and a Forrest combo. I prefer the Forrest but get by just fine with the Freud when the Forrest is out for sharpening.

Fred

[scott spencer]

The several Freud blades I've tried have been really good....some excellent. I've also tried several CMT blades, most of which have been very good to excellent too, but I believe I had a couple of defective 40T full kerf general purpose blades from them. Defects and variability can and does occur within all brands, but you should do really well with the top offerings from Freud, CMT, Infinity, Forrest, Ridge Carbide, FSTools, Tenryu, Carbide Processors, Guhdo, Amana Tools, (some Delta and DeWalt, Irwin Marathon, and others) etc.

My biggest complaint with the "Glue Line Rip" blade category is their limited operating range, and the confusion caused by the marketing aspect of the "GLR" claim. Many, many blades that are decent quality, are sharp, and are suitable for the task will leave a glue ready edge, depending on the stock preparation, saw setup, material thickness, user technique, etc....the blade is only one factor. It's possible to get a glue line edge with a good 24T, 30T, 40T, 50T, some 60T, and even some 80T blades depending on the geometry of the blade and the variables mentioned. No saw blade will really replace the primary function of a jointer, and no saw blade is intended to leave a finish ready edge. Saw blades typically only address the edge of a board, not the face...without a flat reference face, the edge isn't likely to maintain a true 90° to the face, which increases deviation along the edge.

The most common version of the "GLR" are the 30T TCG designs from Freud and CMT...they do leave a very clean edge for a 30T blade, but are mainly intended for ripping functions in materials up to 1". The very tight side parameters that allow that clean edge also make them more prone to burning in thicker materials, materials that burn easily, and/or if the setup isn't really good. As a specialty blade, the GLRs also aren't well suited for crosscuts. Unless you do high volumes of ripping only operations on materials of 1" or less, I really don't see a need for a blade such as this that operates in such a narrow range of cutting operations. For thicker materials, a decent 24T ripper is still recommended, and is capable of glue ready edges. If you already have a good 40T or 50T general purpose or combo blade, you can easily get a glue ready edge in most 1" material (Forrest, Tenryu, and others offer a 30T ATB general purpose blade that will do well too). If you have a good 60T crosscut blade with a positive hook, the odds are good that you can get similar results as the 30T GLR will offer. The alternative choices I've mentioned, all offer wider range of operation.

[jack duren]

I have been doing the research on dedicated use blades for my table saw and radio alarm saw rather than using combination blades all the time. As I started reviewing glue line rip blades, there seems to be a lot of negative press about Freud blades. From bad coatings that deteriorate on the ICE coated blades to bad wobble in the Diablo line. I went to Amazon looking for alternatives and found CMT. I also found some folks really talking up FSTool glue line rip blades.

Since most of the info on the Creek is older on this topic I thought I would ask for some current feedback on alternatives to Freud. I am also interested to hear Creekers' feedback on the Freud blades, if the problems I mentioned above have ever been noted by any of you. I'm trying to sort out if its just people ranting and they are really suffering from poor machine setup.

Thanks for any feedback.

I believe any good name brand rip blade is going to give satisfactory results. The saw,materials and feed rate will vary. I have nothing against Freud only I've compared to Amana on several items and found I got more from Amana as far as production before dull. So I just buy Amana Euro-rip blades. I've never been sold on Forrest. Seems everything I hear goes to the factory to get resharpened or its a basic blade.
.

[Joe Spear]

I have five different Forrest blades, and all of them have been excellent. My first was a WWII 40t thin-kerf (which I used on a Bosch 4000). Right now I have it on my Jet cabinet saw while my full-kerf 40t is out for sharpening and replacement of several teeth. (Don't carry the blade over a concrete floor when you are holding other things.) I also have a Freud Fusion (great cutting but goes dull a lot faster than the Forrests), a Systematic rip, a Ridge Carbide general purpose, a Freud thin-kerf rip, a Freud non-ferrous metal, a DeWalt (I forget the model), and several Harbor Freights (not great but surprisingly adequate for general purpose cutting for $10 each). The Forrest WWII's (40t full, 40t thin, and 30t full), the Freud Fusion and rip, the Systematic rip, the DeWalt, and the Ridge Carbide all give a fine glue-line quality rip. As somebody already wrote above, set-up and preparation are important parts of the process, not just the blade. There are a lot of good blades these days, and not always the most expensive.

By the way, I have a Forrest stiffener but don't use it anymore. It didn't make any difference in cut quality, and it decreased the blade cutting height too much for thicker wood.

[Mike Schuch]

I use mostly Freud blades. The 10" and 12" glue line rip blades have always worked great for me! I have several 15" and 16" Freud ultimate cut off blades for my RAS and absolutely love them! The only time I have ever paid retail for a Freud blade was for my 12" miter saw. All my other Freud blades I picked up new in package off of ebay for greatly reduced prices.

[Jim Dwight]

The several Freud blades I've tried have been really good....some excellent. I've also tried several CMT blades, most of which have been very good to excellent too, but I believe I had a couple of defective 40T full kerf general purpose blades from them. Defects and variability can and does occur within all brands, but you should do really well with the top offerings from Freud, CMT, Infinity, Forrest, Ridge Carbide, FSTools, Tenryu, Carbide Processors, Guhdo, Amana Tools, (some Delta and DeWalt, Irwin Marathon, and others) etc.

My biggest complaint with the "Glue Line Rip" blade category is their limited operating range, and the confusion caused by the marketing aspect of the "GLR" claim. Many, many blades that are decent quality, are sharp, and are suitable for the task will leave a glue ready edge, depending on the stock preparation, saw setup, material thickness, user technique, etc....the blade is only one factor. It's possible to get a glue line edge with a good 24T, 30T, 40T, 50T, some 60T, and even some 80T blades depending on the geometry of the blade and the variables mentioned. No saw blade will really replace the primary function of a jointer, and no saw blade is intended to leave a finish ready edge. Saw blades typically only address the edge of a board, not the face...without a flat reference face, the edge isn't likely to maintain a true 90° to the face, which increases deviation along the edge.

The most common version of the "GLR" are the 30T TCG designs from Freud and CMT...they do leave a very clean edge for a 30T blade, but are mainly intended for ripping functions in materials up to 1". The very tight side parameters that allow that clean edge also make them more prone to burning in thicker materials, materials that burn easily, and/or if the setup isn't really good. As a specialty blade, the GLRs also aren't well suited for crosscuts. Unless you do high volumes of ripping only operations on materials of 1" or less, I really don't see a need for a blade such as this that operates in such a narrow range of cutting operations. For thicker materials, a decent 24T ripper is still recommended, and is capable of glue ready edges. If you already have a good 40T or 50T general purpose or combo blade, you can easily get a glue ready edge in most 1" material (Forrest, Tenryu, and others offer a 30T ATB general purpose blade that will do well too). If you have a good 60T crosscut blade with a positive hook, the odds are good that you can get similar results as the 30T GLR will offer. The alternative choices I've mentioned, all offer wider range of operation.

I agree completely with this. I have no need for a "glue line rip" blade. I use any of my blades for a finished edge ready for gluing. I have nothing but good experience with Freud (never used a diablo). I just got Monday a new Freud bit for making 20mm holes and it works great too. For me, they are at a great value point. They may not be as good as the best blades but they are quite good and are closer to the cheap blades than the expensive ones in price. I wouldn't avoid a CMT, however. I don't think I have CMT saw blade but I have at least one of their router bits and it is high quality.