Ceiling or open rafters in a new shop.

[Allen (AJ) Breese]

I have a question, I know there are plus & minus to both. I would like to hear what others have done,why & would you do it again. I'm building a new garage this spring, half of it will be a wood working shop & the other will be used to park in & do mechanical repairs. I will have 10' side walls & plan on using spray foam on the bottom side of the roof. My thinking is I can save money with out a ceiling but I know it will be easier to heat & my hanging dust filter/fan will work better with a ceiling. I'm not sure about witch will help keep it cool in the summer with out AC? If I go with a ceiling what are your recommendations?

Thank you!
AJ

[Malcolm Schweizer]

A ceiling with attic above will be much easier to heat and cool. Also lighting will reflect and the shop will be brighter. If you have the money, go with the ceiling. You also gain storage in the attic.

[Randy Red Bemont]

A ceiling with attic above will be much easier to heat and cool. Also lighting will reflect and the shop will be brighter. If you have the money, go with the ceiling. You also gain storage in the attic.

+1 on this. It will hold your heat/cool closer to where you are working. Plus the attic storage is priceless.

Red

[Art Mann]

I would not build a shop, or garage for that matter, without putting in a ceiling and insulating the ceiling joists. It will be much hotter in the summer and will be very difficult to heat economically in the winter. Another thing - you almost can't get enough light in a shop. That problem will be a lot easier to solve if you paint your ceiling white. My shop started out as a 24 X 28 two story storage building with the ceiling being the floor of the second story. When I decided to make it into a shop, I started by insulating the walls and sealing over the bare studs. The place was still almost impossible to heat. I insulated the second story floor joists and put in a 3/8" plywood ceiling. That made all the difference in the world. In the long run, I think you will save enough on winter heating to pay for insulating and putting up a ceiling if you use it a lot.

[Larry Edgerton]

My last shop had exposed framing in the ceiling. As much as I liked being able to hand hundreds of jigs from the rafters there is one big problem. Dust control. It builds up on the framing and has to be cleaned all the time to avoid explosions.

The other thing you are doing, spray foam up against the roof may be OK with a metal roof, but is a definate no-no with a shingled roof. Shingle life will be extremely short. It will boil the asphalt right out of the shingles. Even with steel I like to see a ventilated roof surface to carry away heat. Do a search on under roof temps. It will be cheaper per R to insulate an attic space and the insulation will be more effective because of the intermediate zone in between.

[Dennis Aspö]

I got a ceiling as well, walls and ceiling both painted white. This really helps make the shop brighter and makes it feel bigger too. Also I have like 500mm of insulation in my roof and 150mm in the walls, but I'm proofing against finnish weather, it can get quite cold here.

[Lee Schierer]

I will have 10' side walls & plan on using spray foam on the bottom side of the roof.

AJ, Make sure you leave air channels between the foam and the underside of the roof sheeting otherwise the sun will bake the shingles right off your roof and shorten their life. Personally, I would add a ceiling and insulate at that level and not pay to heat all those cubic feet that you can't use. Since heat rises, it will be much warmer at the peak than it will be at the thermostat level. A nice white ceiling will also increase your illumination levels in the shop.

Depending upon your roof pitch, insulating a flat ceiling will be 1/3-1/2 the cost of insulating two sections of the roof.

[Jim Andrew]

Another reason to build a building with a ceiling is strength. A building without ceiling joists is much weaker than one with joists and the ceiling itself makes the building stronger. It is a lot like building a box from framing, and then covering the frame with sheets.

[Bruce Wrenn]

If you have doors that allow for vehicle entry, then you most likely will have to have 5/8" sheetrock on ceiling,and any wall that is shared with living areas.

[William C Rogers]

I have a metal building. For me definitely a ceiling. My previous shop there was no ceiling. I was able to get drop ceiling tiles free from a business that was being remodeled. I had already put R13 in the rafters over the R12 bubble insulation the builder installed thinking the ceiling would have to wait till next year. Then I was able to get drop ceiling tiles free from a business being remodled. A ceiling makes a huge difference in heating and lighting. Make sure you have adequate access as there will be a few times you will need it.

[Mike Wilkins]

My shop currently has an open ceiling, with lots of lumber sitting on the ceiling joists. My intention is to place batts between the joists and panel the ceiling with glossy white paneling and add some new 8 foot , 4 bulb flourescent lights. With the closed in ceiling, it will be much simpler to heat and cool the shop area, instead of the heat going into the attic to keep the lumber warm. I plan to put in a set of drop-down attic stairs to access the valuable storage space.

[Lee Schierer]

Make sure 8 foot lamps are going to be available in the future. The newer small diameter lamps are brighter.

[Roy Turbett]

I built my shop with 10' walls and sissor trusses insulated with R30 batt insulation and drywall. This gives me 16' in the center to hang my natural gas radiant heat tube and other accessories. You need at least 12' of clearance for ceiling mounted radiant heat.

[Ole Anderson]

My last shop had exposed framing in the ceiling. As much as I liked being able to hand hundreds of jigs from the rafters there is one big problem. Dust control. It builds up on the framing and has to be cleaned all the time to avoid explosions.



Explosions? Trolling? I love it! It is kind of ironic that when one installs a dust collection system, it is just one more place for dust to build up on the duct along the ceiling. Basement shop here, open joists, too much tucked up there to hang a ceiling.

[steven c newman]

Afraid I'd not be much help with this one, but..

The Dungeon Shop is just that, a basement dungeon made into a shop. Exposed piping, ductworks, a gas line or two....

Open, rough sawn 2xs overhead. I hang a few items up there from screws and a clamp. Just open joists. No real room for any lumber stowage, either. Well, maybe, IF I would clean out the old coal bunker......

[Larry Edgerton]

Explosions? Trolling? I love it! It is kind of ironic that when one installs a dust collection system, it is just one more place for dust to build up on the duct along the ceiling. Basement shop here, open joists, too much tucked up there to hang a ceiling.

Maybe you need to do a little more research..............

[Art Mann]

Understatement. Explosions. What explosions?

[Ole Anderson]

Maybe you need to do a little more research..............

You were serious? If so please enlighten me. (Ok, where is my eating popcorn smiley face?)

[Larry Edgerton]

Being ignorant is not so much a shame, as being unwilling to learn.”
― Benjamin Franklin (http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/289513.Benjamin_Franklin)

[Ole Anderson]

Being ignorant is not so much a shame, as being unwilling to learn.”
― Benjamin Franklin (http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/289513.Benjamin_Franklin)
Excuse me?

[Cliff Polubinsky]

Alan,

The house we bought last year had a 20x24 building in the back yard. Basically a 2 car garage on concrete pillars with a wood floor. The previous owner had it built to use as a large garden shed for his lawn tractor, etc. I wanted to keep the open feeling of the space and didn't want to close in the ceiling. I did some research on hot roofs (that's a specific term) and found that if I sealed off all openings so there was no air movement at all I could insulate the rafters, close them in with drywall and keep the open feel without causing any problems with the roof or shingles.

I hung the fluorescent lights from the ceiling joists and the mounted the heater and air conditioner above the joists so they didn't intrude on workable shop space. And I put a pair of ceiling fans in the upper space to keep the heat circulating in the winter and to provide breeze in the summer.

It's working well so far. I have space above the joists for storage, keep the open feel of the space and can maneuver 9 or 10 foot boards between the ceiling joists when I need to.

Cliff

[Rob Damon]

I insulated at the under side of the roof (with baffles) and put in Acoustical ceiling grid on top of the bottom cord of the rafters and put recessed fixtures in the ceiling grid.

The bottom of the rafters protect the lighting fixtures from getting hit when flipping a long board around or a sheet of plywood.


.304058

[Jim Andrew]

Rob, that is an interesting way of installing a ceiling. Are those 4 bulb troffer light fixtures?

[Rob Damon]

Yes 4 lamp T-8. Two rows of 9 fixtures. I was going to hang the SACP from below the structure but did not want to lose the 10' clear space. I had a 4' piece of ceiling grid that I was holding up to figure out what height to mount the grid below the ceiling and rather than bringing it down, I just laid it across the bottom of the rafters while I went to measure the light fixture height.

When I came back to the ladder and looked up and saw the grid sitting above, it hit me, if the fixtures could fit between the rafters and have the lense door still open, why not.
It is a tight fit, but the lense doors just barely open.

If the 2x4 fixtures had not worked, I would have just exchanged them for 1x4 fixtures. They are also wired to six switches. One motion switch at the main entry door that turns on the one light by the door. The second switch controls five more fixtures to give me a pattern of six fixtures (two on each end and two in the center) that gives good general overall lighting. Then there are four banks of three fixtures in each quadrant that can be turned on if I am working in a particular corner of the shop.

[Phil Hansen]

Being ignorant is not so much a shame, as being unwilling to learn.” ― Benjamin Franklin (http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/289513.Benjamin_Franklin) To get an explosion you need to have an environment in which you cannot see or breath. A bit of visable dust in a shop will not cause an explosion maybe a fire if you put a match to it - but explosion - no way. Urban legends are just that.

[Ole Anderson]

To get an explosion you need to have an environment in which you cannot see or breath. A bit of visable dust in a shop will not cause an explosion maybe a fire if you put a match to it - but explosion - no way. Urban legends are just that.

I thought that was so well known that it didn't need reiterating. Hopefully some are willing to do a little more research on the issue.

[Larry Edgerton]

You are correct that the concentration of flammable dust particles needs to be a a specific level with conditions that are conducive to an explosion. But you are wrong that it can not happen, dead wrong.

Google "Secondary dust explosions"

Not everyone on this board is a homeowner playing in a garage. I will stick by my quote.

[Peter Aeschliman]

Not everyone on this board is a homeowner playing in a garage. I will stick by my quote.

Your arguments are much more likely to convince people if you don't insult them.

If you're not trying to convince people, then why do you argue?

[Ole Anderson]

OK, in partial support of Larry's apparent position regarding the dangers of wood dust, here is an article that is interesting: http://www.woodshopnews.com/news/features/503083-boom-the-dangers-of-wood-dust
I glean from this:
-yes, wood dust can explode (I think we all knew that)
-wood dust explosions tend to happen in factory type settings
-wood dust must be of a flour like consistency and heavily suspended in the air in order to explode
-how much wood dust on a surface is too much? 1/8" by fire regulations, so much that your green machine is no longer green by others, by others enough so you can write on the surface with your finger (may be a bit conservative IMO)
-plastic duct work is not recommended as it is one possible source of ignition if a large amount of fine wood dust should suddenly become suspended

If anyone could document a wood dust explosion is a home or small wood shop environment, please post the references here so we can start to worry. At this point, I consider it a non-issue.

[Jim Andrew]

The only dust explosions I have heard of happened in grain elevators. When our coop did an expansion, they installed a cyclone on the leg, that is the name of the conveyor system that elevates the grain, which sucks the dust out of the leg. The shop I worked in had so much dust laying around, we would have to blow out the overhead gas heaters. Often it was a half inch thick in the heaters in the fall when we cleaned up getting ready to turn the heaters on. They have a dust system, but the company who built it never heard of Bill Pentz.