carcass saw as a dovetail saw?

[Jeff Ranck]

So I'm just getting ready to build the tail vise for my bench (maybe a week or two) from the veritas metal hardware (the same thing that Chris Griggs used for his workbench 2.0). I think I've finally figured out how to put that together and it is clear that I'll be dovetailing a pretty thick piece for the front. I think it may be "deeper" than a normal dovetail saw will reach. So that means a deeper saw, like a carcass saw - something that has a something more than 2" under the back. However, in looking at the carcass saws, the LN are all filed crosscut. I could order one from Bad Axe that is rip or their hybrid filing, but that is about 1.8x the cost of the LN saw. The veritas "molded spine" backsaws are the least expensive of the bunch and they have a rip option, but they look a bit weird and I'm a bit unsure that I'll like them.

I don't have anything to compare it to as my only backsaw at this point is a (really fantastic) Bad Axe sash saw that I picked up for some large tenons at a show where I was chatting with Mark about some things he was working on and I had a bonus burning a hole in my pocket. I hate asking for opinions on these things since what you like is what you like and I may like something different, but I'm going to do it anyway.

Go with the Veritas and if I hate it chalk it up to an $80 learning experience? Keep saving my pennies (lots and lots of pennies) for the Bad Axe? Someone have another vendor that I should check out?

Jeff.

[Don Jarvie]

LN makes a rip carcass saw which I have and use as a dovetail saw. Highly recommended.

[David Dalzell]

I have the Veritas dovetail saw. It doesn't look like the classical back/dovetail saw, but it is very comfortable and cuts beautifully. I would have no hesitation about getting the Veritas carcass or tenon saw in rip configuration. Pretty tools are great, but so is any tool that is both comfortable and works well.

[Jim Koepke]

My original 'dovetail' saw was a Disston back saw from the 1950s or '60s.

Yes, it is nice to have a saw made specifically for a function, but it is possible to do the job with a less than perfect saw.

jtk

[Shawn Pixley]

I've had to cut many abnormally large dovetails in the past. I've used many different saws for dovetails - Bad Axe hybrid, LV rip carcass, Dozuki, Glen Drake Dovetail, and LV Dovetail. They all worked great. I was pleasantly surprised how much I likes the LV saws. In some ways I actually prefer the larger saws to traditional dovetail saws.

Pick one and get going.

[Tom Vanzant]

Happy New Year, Jim. My first dovetail saw was my grandfather's 12" Disston #4, circa 1940s....Ugly wood! I have added the Veritas DT & XC saws to the till but still use that #4 for larger DTs.

[Frederick Skelly]

I have the Veritas dovetail saw. It doesn't look like the classical back/dovetail saw, but it is very comfortable and cuts beautifully. I would have no hesitation about getting the Veritas carcass or tenon saw in rip configuration. Pretty tools are great, but so is any tool that is both comfortable and works well.

+1. What Dave said.

[Brian Loran]

Tools for working wood makes a great carcass saw and can be had in xcut or rip.

[Steve Bates]

Why wouldn't your sash saw do the job? I don't own one so I'm curious. I read Shannon's article on obtaining your first saw, a carcass, but I came away thinking whatever saw you've got should do fine with some tweaking on your technique. The article is on the Reniassance Wood Worker blog http://www.renaissancewoodworker.com/rww187-which-saw-first/.

My two pennies

[Mike Henderson]

Don't worry about whether it's filed crosscut or rip. Either will do the job. For a low cost solution, get a Dozuki.

Mike

[Winton Applegate]

AhhhhhhThaseasy!

We are watching the movie After The Thin Man with Nick and Nora (and Asta)
but took a break to put the pizzas in the oven so may as well have a look in here (about three hours until fire works on Pikes Peak) . . .

File’er rip
I did
Love it.

Meet the twins
One cross cut, one rip. Hard to tell them apart. Unless you look real close.

(or you could cheat and use your band saw) (like Frank Klausz did)

Naaaaaahhhhhhh

[Jeff Ranck]

Hmmm.... I can't find it. The only two carcass saws they have are the "carcass saw" and "tapered carcass saw" and both are filed crosscut.

[Jeff Ranck]

The sash saw probably would. It is a bit big, but I could make it work. I thought this might be a good opportunity to get a carcass saw and thought it might be a bit easier with the carcass over the sash.

[lowell holmes]

Of course not!

Why do you think we need one of each in our saw till? :)

I have two LN carcass saws. One is crosscut and the other is rip. LN used to make both.

As customer friendly as LN is, I suspect if you called them and talked to them, you could get a rip carcass saw.

Actually, I would present your question to them if I were you.

[Jim Koepke]

Happy New Year Tom!

jtk

[paul cottingham]

I have a fantastic Bad Axe sash saw that I would never part with. I would love to buy one of Marks dovetail or carcass saws, but instead economics won out and I bought the veritas versions. I am very happy with the Veritas saws. I'm sure I would be even happier with Bad Axe, but seriously, I have no complaints at all about the veritas ones, except maybe the handle on my dovetail saw. It is a little tight, but I have very large hands. I will likely take a rasp to the handle some day.
i cannot imagine you not being happy with veritas kit.
I am a mostly hand tool woodworker, so my saws get used a lot. If they sucked, I would sell them, and buy something else.

[Matt Evans]

I have a fantastic Bad Axe sash saw that I would never part with. I would love to buy one of Marks dovetail or carcass saws, but instead economics won out and I bought the veritas versions. I am very happy with the Veritas saws. I'm sure I would be even happier with Bad Axe, but seriously, I have no complaints at all about the veritas ones, except maybe the handle on my dovetail saw. It is a little tight, but I have very large hands. I will likely take a rasp to the handle some day.
i cannot imagine you not being happy with veritas kit.
I am a mostly hand tool woodworker, so my saws get used a lot. If they sucked, I would sell them, and buy something else.

I've tried Bad Axe, Lei Nielsen and veritas joinery saws at a few shows. I liked the way they all cut, though my favorites are the bad Axe saws.

The joinery saws all have small totes for my hands though(2x glove size, size 13 wedding ring for hand size comparison). This was 2 years ago, and I'm only talking joinery saws. Bad Axe had 2 panel saws that fit my hands well and cut better than any saw I've used.

If I had smaller hands I'd get the veritas dovetail/carcase saws to save a few bucks. If money didn't factor in at all, I'd go with bad Axe all the way.

[george wilson]

I didn't have a proper dovetail saw for many years. Just used an old Disston carcass saw. Worked just fine.

[Brian Holcombe]

Get a dovetail saw for normal work and use a tenon saw for the big dovetails on the bench.

[Chuck Hart]

http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/page.aspx?p=66066&cat=1,42884,68511&ap=1

[Mike Siemsen]

Keep in mind that any appropriate sized ripsaw will work, you don't have to use a backsaw.

[Steve Voigt]

I didn't have a proper dovetail saw for many years. Just used an old Disston carcass saw. Worked just fine.

Me too. I use a 100 year old 10" Disston backsaw. No complaints.


Keep in mind that any appropriate sized ripsaw will work, you don't have to use a backsaw.

Reminds me, I was reading Nicholson's Mechanic's Companion (early 1800s) the other night. He says that for cutting tenons, the tenon saw is used to cut cross-grain only, to cut the shoulders. The cheeks are ripped with a "handsaw," by which he means a (backless) ripsaw with about 7 ppi.

[Curt Putnam]

Every maker out there uses the same steel. So all the rest boils down to the handle (tote) and the filing. Every good maker can file well. So it really boils down to the tote. If it fits your hand then you are good to go. I have every Veritas saw they sell and two of the 14ppi dovetail. The lower horn digs into my palm because it is too small for my palm. I still use them because they work. Except for dovetail (for which I own an Isaac Smith, a Glen-Drake, several Dozukis and multiple Veritas) all of my joinery saws are Veritas. One may complain about tote size and one may complain about appearance, but no one may legitimately complain about performance.

JMO & YMWV

[John Sanford]

So I'm just getting ready to build the tail vise for my bench (maybe a week or two) from the veritas metal hardware (the same thing that Chris Griggs used for his workbench 2.0). I think I've finally figured out how to put that together and it is clear that I'll be dovetailing a pretty thick piece for the front. I think it may be "deeper" than a normal dovetail saw will reach. So that means a deeper saw, like a carcass saw - something that has a something more than 2" under the back. However, in looking at the carcass saws, the LN are all filed crosscut. I could order one from Bad Axe that is rip or their hybrid filing, but that is about 1.8x the cost of the LN saw. The veritas "molded spine" backsaws are the least expensive of the bunch and they have a rip option, but they look a bit weird and I'm a bit unsure that I'll like them.

I don't have anything to compare it to as my only backsaw at this point is a (really fantastic) Bad Axe sash saw that I picked up for some large tenons at a show where I was chatting with Mark about some things he was working on and I had a bonus burning a hole in my pocket. I hate asking for opinions on these things since what you like is what you like and I may like something different, but I'm going to do it anyway.

Go with the Veritas and if I hate it chalk it up to an $80 learning experience? Keep saving my pennies (lots and lots of pennies) for the Bad Axe? Someone have another vendor that I should check out?

Jeff.


Jeff, I have the Veritas saws, and one of the inexpensive Japanese pull saws. If you'd like to borrow 'em for a tryout, let me know. Provo ain't too far from PG. ;)

[Mike Allen1010]

AhhhhhhThaseasy!



File’er rip
I did
Love it.

Meet the twins
One cross cut, one rip. Hard to tell them apart. Unless you look real close.

(or you could cheat and use your band saw) (like Frank Klausz did)

Naaaaaahhhhhhh



Winton, Very nice saws and dovetails-hard to disagree with results like yours!
Mike

[Jeff Ranck]

Hi John:

Thanks! I decided to order the LN carcass saw and it should be here on Friday. I've had my eye on the "making wooden planes" video for some time and it was an opportunity to get both.

I seem to remember that you work not too far from my home. I live in Indian Hills and I seem to remember you work at/around the riverwoods. We should definitely get together at some point and meet. If nothing else to bemoan the fact that it is hard to find really good hardwood here.

Jeff.

[Stewie Simpson]

A longer saw stroke provides a lot of advantages . I made this backsaw a while ago. It has a 12" x 1 37/64" of depth below the hard back. Its been sharpened 16 tpi.

I great for dovetail, and light dimensioned carcass work. The handle shape is one of my own designs. It does fit very comfortably in the hand.

Stewie;

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/open%20handle%20design/DSC_0092_zps6b25f9cb.jpg (http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/open%20handle%20design/DSC_0092_zps6b25f9cb.jpg.html)

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/open%20handle%20design/DSC_0091_zpsce090497.jpg (http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/open%20handle%20design/DSC_0091_zpsce090497.jpg.html)

[Brian Holcombe]

Hi John:

Thanks! I decided to order the LN carcass saw and it should be here on Friday. I've had my eye on the "making wooden planes" video for some time and it was an opportunity to get both.

I seem to remember that you work not too far from my home. I live in Indian Hills and I seem to remember you work at/around the riverwoods. We should definitely get together at some point and meet. If nothing else to bemoan the fact that it is hard to find really good hardwood here.

Jeff.

Jeff, were you able to find the rip filed carcass saw? If you did what is the TPI?

They seem to have removed most of their medium sized saws from their site. The 12" tenon saw is also MIA.