Sanding Face Frame Using Drum Sander

[George Bokros]

I am thinking about putting some face frames through the drum sander but am concerned about the scratches that will result sanding the rails cross grain. Are they difficult to remove? I would use 100 grit then do the final sanding with my 1/4 sheet pad sander again sanding first with 100 grit then through the grits as normal.

Thanks

[Kevin Bourque]

I would not just use 100 grit in the drum sander as you have suggested. It will leave too much scratch for you to hand sand.

I would go with 100 in the drum sander and then follow up with 150. From there you could even go to 200 or finer.

Doing it this way leaves almost no hand sanding at all.

[John TenEyck]

Agreed. I did it once with 100 grit and the scratches on the rails required quite a bit of sanding with my ROS to remove. That experience convinced my to refocus my efforts on getting the stile/rail joints as perfect as possible such that only a little sanding with my ROS is required. BTW, a ROS does a much better job than a 1/4 sheet sander of dealing with the stile/rail joints. You get essentially no swirl marks where the joint changes direction. With my 1/4 sheet sander I always had scratches on one half of the joint, depending upon which way I was moving the sander.

John

[George Bokros]

I do not have any finer grit for the drum sander than 150 and I do not have a ROS.

What I have on the face frames is some divots that I cannot explain since they are smaller than what would have been caused by the pad sander. They are clear across the width of the face frame. The joints were well aligned when assembled. I had no issues when running them through the planer they seemed to run fine. I am not sure how to deal with them other than the drum sander with what I have available.

What about this alternative since the face frames are only pocket screwed together. Dissemble them and run them through the drum sander with 100 grit then 150 grit then re-assemble them and finish with the pad sander to 180 grit.

[Cary Falk]

I have sent some cross grain through a drum sander with 100 grit paper and the scratches took some doing to get rid of with a ROS. It will take forever with a pad sander. It would be faster to drop down to 80 with the pad and then move up in grits.

[Mel Fulks]

George ,your last idea might work if the machine doesn't dub off at first contact. I like sanding best side of untrimmed material 100 or 120 grit then trimming and assembling . Then orbital sanding will be easy.

[Matt Day]

George - you have a drum sander but no ROS? I think It's the best sub $100 power tool you can have!
I'm curios about this question too, as I have had the same deep scratches when drum sanding picture frames at 100g. Should I start with a higher grit or work my way up? Changing grits is a bit of a pain.

[George Bokros]

Matt, I have always had a 1/4 sheet vibratory / palm / pad sander and never really figured out why I would need both. Always felt that sanding in circles even though random orbits did not produce the best finish.

Can anyone explain to me what a ROS has in advantages over a 1/4 sheet pad sander? I know a ROS is more aggressive. Plus it means I have to buy special more costly sandpaper.

By the way my palm sander is an orbital 14,000 OPM

Link http://www.milwaukeetool.com/power-tools/corded/6020-21

[Mel Fulks]

A drum sander presses down a lot harder than a ROS. I consider the same grit paper one grit coarser when used on drum
or belt sander than what it would be with ROS. George ,you need a ROS with a small orbit.

[jack forsberg]

stroke sander or hand held belt sander because the hard pad remove the cross sanding and keeps things flat, than the soft pad ROS .

[George Bokros]

George ,you need a ROS with a small orbit.

My quarter sheet sander orbits at 14,000 OPM and in a 1/16" orbit, 1/32" less than the Milwaukee ROS. See the specs in the linked page below.

Link http://www.milwaukeetool.com/power-tools/corded/6020-21

[Mel Fulks]

Then I would , as said earlier, do all projects by cutting material to finished width ,but left long,then run through sander .
then trim ,assemble, and use the pad sander beginning with paper one grit rougher than what is on drum sander. So maybe 120 on drum sander then 100 on pad sander . Then 120 an 150 ,and sometimes higher than that.

[John TenEyck]

George, one other thought on using the drum sander, either on the assembled or disassembled frame. Run a piece of stock the same thickness as your frames into the machine first then butt your frame against it. Add another scrape piece behind the last frame. This will prevent snipe, just as it does when planing stock.

If you've never used a ROS, there is no comparison to a pad sander. As I said, a pad sander will leave cross grain scratches when you move from a stile to rail or rail to stile. With a ROS that won't happen. It's the random orbit action vs. an orbital one. World of difference. A ROS is not necessarily more aggressive than a pad sander. Grit size and variable speed give you a lot of control. Let's put it this way, since I bought a ROS, my pad sander has collected dust.

John

[Rick Potter]

George,

I got a 37" Woodmaster because it could accommodate a 36" face frame, which was big as I would ever do. I tried running face frames through it, but didn't like the scratching . What I do now, is run all the pieces through before final sizing, then assemble with pocket screws. Having the pieces all the same exact thickness makes it easier to keep the joints flat, with very little hand sanding after assembly. I really cinch them down when screwing together also, to keep them from moving.

This works so well for me that I will be putting two grits side by side on the same roller when the paper needs changing. Right now I have 100 in it, and the final size I run it through 4 times, and it gets a bit smoother each time. Quick sanding with the ROS and I am ready to go. I use red oak, and usually 120 or 150 is all it needs.

[Larry Edgerton]

Matt, I have always had a 1/4 sheet vibratory / palm / pad sander and never really figured out why I would need both. Always felt that sanding in circles even though random orbits did not produce the best finish.

Can anyone explain to me what a ROS has in advantages over a 1/4 sheet pad sander? I know a ROS is more aggressive. Plus it means I have to buy special more costly sandpaper.


By the way my palm sander is an orbital 14,000 OPM

Link http://www.milwaukeetool.com/power-tools/corded/6020-21

Your pad sander sands in circles.......

Pad sanders tend to round over the edges where a ROS will keep things flatter. Plus it is a whole lot faster.

[George Bokros]

Thanks for all the responses. I will be getting a ROS today. My only hope is I can salvage my face frames. It is marginal I have enough stock to remake them. They are made from red oak, the catch is the sawmill I use sorts the oak into two shades. A wheat color and a more red color. I am using the wheat color for this project. The saw mill is a two hour drive one way so going for a few pieces is not what I want to do.

[roger wiegand]

Sand first, then assemble the frame so that you can sand everything with the grain. And treat yourself to a ROS, there's no comparison to an orbital.

[George Bokros]

Bought a DeWalt VS ROS this morning. I have sanded one of the face frames with 80 grit and seems to be working so I can salvage them. The fact that they were stained actually helps with sanding to get the very shallow divots out.

All I can say is wow how great a ROS is. Guess my 1 yr old Milwaukee will only be used for sanding large flat surfaces.

[Harry Hagan]

George was a tough sell—but you guys converted him!

[John TenEyck]

Glad to hear it's going to work out for you George. I resisted buying a ROS for far too long too. Finally go one after many colleagues told me I was missing out. They were right. It really is eye opening how efficient a ROS is w/o leaving swirl marks. I think you'll find it superior to your pad sander for large, flat surfaces, too. FYI, I really like Klingspore sanding disks for my ROS, though the Diablo ones from HD actually sand quite well, about as well as Mirka ones.

John

[George Bokros]

The only thing about the Diablo ones I got at HD is they are not eight hole, otherwise they worked good.

[John TenEyck]

I have a 6" ROS, and the only Diablo ones at my local HD have a lot of little holes in them for a "universal fit". They actually work really well; it was only after I bought some from Klingspore that I saw how much faster and longer lasting really good disks can be. Another benefit of Klingspore is they resist clogging better than others I have tried.

John

[George Bokros]

John T,

Which ones from Klingspor do you like for general sanding? Does it depend on what kind of stock you are sanding?

Thanks

[Bradley Gray]

I have a dual drum sander. I use their resin over resin 80 and 100 grits for 95% of what I sand. My sander is a Supermax and I buy 50 meter rolls that are pre marked for the length cuts (color coded for different sanders).

[glenn bradley]

I sand then assemble. A quick touch-up with a ROS brings things to a finish ready state. I do not run a pro shop or do large amounts of this so my method may not be applicable.

[John TenEyck]

John T,

Which ones from Klingspor do you like for general sanding? Does it depend on what kind of stock you are sanding?

Thanks

The "Heavy F-Weight" Paper King-On disks. They work very well for most any flat sanding operation, like face frames, panels, etc. with a medium or hard pad.

John

[Gregory King]

George: I chuckle as your story reminds me of our work shop a number of years ago. We had several 1/4 sheet air sanders that were used in our carpenter shop daily,to prep the items before the paint shop applied the finish. I distinctly remember how tough it was to get even the smallest of scratches out. One day out of the blue, our roofer walked in with a Dewalt 5"ROS . He was restoring a vehicle and suggested we try it on a piece of wood. We were astounded at the results. Well, I can tell you to this day that all of the old sheet sanders are collecting dust in the shop cabinets . The best $100 investment for sure that a woodworker can make. Greg

[Rick Potter]

I just saw a new Mirka Deros 5" ROS advertised in the Woodworkers Journal. It's new, and does not have a power inverter like the Ceros. Looks great, and only about $1500 each.

One upping Festool, I guess.

[Justin Ludwig]

I drum sand all my pieces before assembly with 150grit. That removes all the planer lines (Griz spiral head) and ensures everything is same thickness. I use a FS 150/5 for final sanding at 120g (paint grade) and 180g for stain. Works great for me. 1-2 man cabinet shop.

Congrats on the purchase.