Choices, choices

[James Lehr]

So my wife gave me a $500 gift card for Lie-Nielsen and we're heading to Maine this weekend for my birthday (the big 40). We plan to stop in Warren at the LN shop. So here's my dilemma: I can buy my choice of anything at LN and there's so many choices! I have several wants: 4 1/2 smoothing plane, jointer plane, bevel-up plane, and a carcass or tenon saw. Also, does anyone know why the 4 1/2 Bronze smoother is 3 times the price of the iron one?

[Malcolm Schweizer]

First off, let me say you suck! (kidding) Hold on to your wife and don't let her near any creekers or they may steal her.

As for the 4 1/2- they only make it in iron, I believe because it's heavy enough in iron as it is. Maybe you meant the No. 4. The No.4 is only $50 more in bronze than in iron. The difference is mainly the cost of materials. I think $50 is not much to pay for bronze over iron.

What you choose will be very much based on what you do the most of, and what you already have versus need. All I can say is I love my LN chisels, and my bronze 2 and 4. I prefer bronze mainly because it doesn't rust, but I also like the weight.

[Brian Hale]

I don't have any LN planes but I can say my 4 1/2 Stanley planes are the most used tools in my shop. One setup for ultra fine shavings, one for general smoothing and one with a heavly cambered blade for course material removal.. If i had to start over from scratch, a 4 1/2 would be the first plane I'd get

Brian :)

[Jim Belair]

Also, does anyone know why the 4 1/2 Bronze smoother is 3 times the price of the iron one?

I think you must be looking at the 4 1/2 taken directly from Tom's own toolbox, made and signed just for you! :rolleyes:

This one (there may be some collectors out there interested) https://www.lie-nielsen.com/product/toms-toolbox/no4-12-bronze?node=4225

[Steve Friedman]

Just a reminder that you get a 10% discount when you buy a Lie-Nielsen tool at the showroom, so you really have $555.55 to spend. Another hint - have them ship to you. The shipping cost is much less than the Maine sales tax. Also, if they don't have want you want in stock, they'll ship for free.

There are no bad L-N tools. My most used ones are the #101 and #102 block planes and the low angle jack (get the toothed blade also). But, my favorite L-N tool is probably the #7. It is an awesome plane that's easy to fall in love with. I also really like the spokeshaves (Boggs and the small brass ones) and the #3 and #4 bench planes.

Have fun and don't forget to stop at Moody's Diner for lunch - only a couple of miles south on Route 1.

Steve

[Matthew N. Masail]

LN also carry Starrett, Floats, Auriou rasps\carving tools... you might want to think what would really be a good edition to your shop. Or you can just get somthin' you fancy and enjoy it ! (-:

[Kent A Bathurst]

......why the 4 1/2 Bronze smoother is 3 times the price of the iron one?

My understanding is that the bronze was a limited edition, commemorative, one-time only small run. There ain't many out there, there aren't any new. And - they are valued as a collectors item, not a daily user.


Not a lot come up for sale. Some of the ones I have seen on offer have never even left the plastic bag.

[Jim Koepke]

I have several wants: 4 1/2 smoothing plane, jointer plane, bevel-up plane, and a carcass or tenon saw.

Several wants, the needs are more important in my opinion.

What do you already have?

My 4-1/2 gets a fair share of the smoothing work in my shop. For some folks a 4-1/2 is too much to push around.

There is also the consideration of getting one big item or getting a few lesser items that can be a great help. My shop is full of old Stanley planes and a few others like Sargent, Record, Millers Falls and a few LNs.

If it were my wife letting me spend that much it wouldn't be likely for me to spend it on replacements for planes in my shop. It would likely be for a lot of the smaller things like an Auriou rasp or two, maybe a mortise chisel in sizes missing from my shop. There are also a few holes in other parts of my tool hoard.

Without knowing what you already have it is hard to say what you should add.

Though it is a problem most of us would gladly welcome for ourselves.

jtk

[David Ragan]

Several years ago, I bought a HD plane (Buck Brothers) and spent hours trying to get the sole flat. Then I took to Highland Woodworking and asked how to modify it to work like a L/N. The guy more or less laughed at me.

He was right.

L/N are exquisite tools, as are LV and many others we have available.

My first choice (these days) the block plane, and some chisels.

Hard to go wrong. I do have some fancy $$$ tools that I had to have, and almost never use. As you can surmise, it is an individual choice.

[Dave Beauchesne]

If you look on the LN site - NEW ITEMS, they list a non-commemorative 4-1/2 - the price is nearly a grand. 6.6 pounds IIRC.

I would love one, but can't justify it at this point.

The cost of casting the bronze is very high ( from things I have read here and elsewhere ) with lots of casting flaws, thus, many rejects.

As for the original question, everything you listed makes sense; ultimately it boils down to what you have already, and what type of work you do, or plan to do.

Best of luck !

Dave B

[Malcolm Schweizer]

I think you must be looking at the 4 1/2 taken directly from Tom's own toolbox, made and signed just for you! :rolleyes:

This one (there may be some collectors out there interested) https://www.lie-nielsen.com/product/toms-toolbox/no4-12-bronze?node=4225

Wow, I never saw this one. 6.6 pounds! Love it. Unfortunately at that price I will probably never own one.

[Kent A Bathurst]

If you look on the LN site - NEW ITEMS, they list a non-commemorative 4-1/2 - the price is nearly a grand. 6.6 pounds IIRC.

Huh. Go figger. I stand corrected. Thanks.

Cost of casting bronze is very hihg - I just did not realize it was that high. Must bet more and more difficult as the casting size increases.

[Paul McGaha]

The pricing on the LN 4 1/2 in Bronze seems really high to me:

LN #4 in Iron $300
LN #4 in Bronze $350

LN #4 1/2 in Iron $325
LN #4 1/2 in Bronze $950

[James Lehr]

So far I have (in my arsenal): Stanley No's 3, 4, 5, 6, and 7 (which is by far my favorite plane). I have three Stanley block planes and a LN clone low angle adjustable mouth rabbet block plane. I have a medium shoulder plane. I have a full set of Narex bench chisels and mortise chisels. I have two Veritas dovetail saws, Disston panel and back saws, and a slew of other various hand tools.

My go to planes are my Bailey 7 and 4 but I can't get a fine shaving with my 4 even with a newly sharpened Hock blade and cap iron. The 4 hss a corrugated sole. I am definitely coveting a bronze LN no 4 which I believe is a Stanley Bedrock clone. My plan is to spend about 2 hours in the LN showroom and play on their benches with their tools. Their website says this is welcomed. Between the LN shop and a two-day ski trip at Sugarloaf I think the LN day is by far my best birthday present.

Does anyone have a detailed opinion between the LN no 4 and 4 1/2? How about the 4 in bronze vs the 4 1/2 in iron?
BTW Steve I will take your advice about Moody's for lunch! Thanks everyone for their input. I will look into having the plane shipped home instead of trying to pack it in my carry-on!

If anyone wants to make it a field-trip, I'll be at LN on Friday 1/2 between 11am and 2. Come on down.

[Kent A Bathurst]

The pricing on the LN 4 1/2 in Bronze seems really high to me:

LN #4 in Iron $300
LN #4 in Bronze $350

LN #4 1/2 in Iron $325
LN #4 1/2 in Bronze $950

So - Dude -

WHich model of the 4-1/2 are you gonna buy?

:D :D

[Winton Applegate]

Cost of casting bronze high.
I could be all wet here and I heard tell there is a dif between casting tools and art but . . .
I worked in an art bronze foundry.
We cast stuff much much much larger than a little O' plane.
Seems like iron would be as expensive to cast since it melts at a higher temp.
I am guessing but I think perhaps bronze flows easier than iron

Maybe George Wilson can enlighten me on that one.

I have personally REPAIRED flaws in the castings using a TIG welder and bronze rod. You can not tell where the repair was done once it is ground smooth (with sand paper flap wheels and metal burrs) and in our case textured or polished to represent what ever the sculpture dictated.

The TIG welder repaired area was xray quality meaning no inclusions or voids in the bronze in or around the weld area.
There could be some distortion from the weld but a good welder can minimize that and the machinists correct for it . . .

In addition I personally gated and sprued (sp) the positive wax castings so that the bronze could flow to all the correct points and so the air and gasses could have many ways to escape as the bronze flowed into the ceramic shells that I personally formed around the wax (think lost wax) (does LN use sand casting ?) so anyway I have a whole bunch of hands on experience with preventing flaws in the castings to start with.

. . . so maybe I am not buying the significant expense increase for bronze and bronze is going to be easier to machine . . .
IeyeDnOh . . .

As far as what to buy I have a whole passel of LN. I got to chew on that some more. The first thing that came to mind was one or two of their panel saws simply because they are so nice and I haven't got one. Yet.

I will probably go for a vintage saw or two when i get more panel saws. I have some basic modern ones for now.
The LNs are sooooooo nice though.

As far as the bronze planes go . . . in my opinion . . . they are for looking at and not using. Too much sole drag for my taste.

PS: no I didn't work on any of this sculpture but it is exactly the kind of thing we did. That was before I had a phone camera or any camera for that matter. Maybe one day I will go around and take some photos of the stuff we did. There are several here in town. That foundry is closed now though.

PPS: speaking of the Jefferson lap desk there it is.

[Chris Hachet]

I like the idea of any of the above. In my shop I have Lie Nielson saws, chisels, rabbit block plane, etc.

My vote would be for the #4 in Bronze. I can get fantastic thin shavings from all of my Stanley and Veritas planes, but the Lie Neilson planes....pure majic, IMHO.

But I am biased because I am planning on getting the #3 and #4 Lie Nielsons.

[James Lehr]

Update: spent the last 2 hrs playing at Lie-Nielsen Toolworks. I really liked both the bevel up Jack and the bronze 4. I tried the tapered carcass saw and the tenon saws. In the end I bought the LN Bronze no 4 with a 50* frog. I hope the higher angle frog doesn't present problems. Anyone with experience and opinion about this high angle frog?

[Brian Holcombe]

I have a bronze #4 with a 55 degree frog, I love it. I use a #4 and a #7 on literally every project. I use a low angle BU jack for rough dimensioning and shooting so I have a few blades for it, one is heavily cambered and the other is an o-1 blade with a 30 degree bevel which i use on end grain and for shooting.