Shopping a new compressor - could you all weigh in?

[Mike Dowell]

I've got a little toy 10g HF compressor I use right now for some things. It's obnoxiously loud and it doesn't put put out what I'd like it to.

Right now, I spray lacquer with a turbine HVLP setup. However, when I spray dyes, I've got a number of sprayers I use which are connected to the compressor. I'd like to upgrade my compressor and recently received some gift cards to Woodcraft so naturally I'm shopping there.

I was looking at http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/418059/Industrial-Air-60-Gallon-155-PSI-Vertical-Air-Compressor-Model-ILA3606056.aspx . This seems like a more quiet "thump thump" compressor with ample CFM to power anything I'd ever need - including pneumatic sanding equipment should I ever get into that.

What are your thoughts?

[Ole Anderson]

Has all the specs I would look for. Vertical ASME tank, 60 gallons, 220 volt motor, puts out more than 120psi and has a good flow of air. Price is right too. I am still using my 30 year old 1 hp Craftsman which serves me well until I want to use my1/2" impact gun, then it can't keep up and the pressure is too low and I end up busting out the breaker bar even though I have a "600 ft-lb" IR gun. It cycles 80-100psi, But it just keeps on running. Darn.

[Ray Newman]

If I was in the market for a large compressor, I would get out the Yellow Pages and find local air compressor repair shops. Then I visit and ask different repair shops what they would recommend or would not recommend for the type of use envisioned, as well as availability of parts, any design problems, etc.

[Peter Kelly]

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200612355_200612355

http://www.aircompressorsdirect.com/product-images/Q13160VQ_12330_280.jpg

[Mike Schuch]

From the price it is easy to tell that it isn't a top of the line industrial compressor that you would want to run a commercial auto repair shop or tire shop on but it looks to be a good solid hobby compressor. I would welcome it at as addition to my shop. It should be much better than your HF direct drive oilless compressor!

[Rich Engelhardt]

That's a fairly generic Mat Industries compressor.
The same machine can be had with a Porter Cable or Sanborn name on it.


This seems like a more quiet "thump thump" compressor
83/84 db is still plenty noisy.

[Mike Dowell]

Has all the specs I would look for. Vertical ASME tank, 60 gallons, 220 volt motor, puts out more than 120psi and has a good flow of air. Price is right too. I am still using my 30 year old 1 hp Craftsman which serves me well until I want to use my1/2" impact gun, then it can't keep up and the pressure is too low and I end up busting out the breaker bar even though I have a "600 ft-lb" IR gun. It cycles 80-100psi, But it just keeps on running. Darn.

Yeah - the price is a big factor. I don't want to spend a ton, $500 was my number. I am a self-employed re-finisher and my shop is 25x25 so not a huge operation. I'd just like something I can spray HVLP guns continuous, or blow the dust out of more than one dresser drawer before I hear BRAHHHHHHHHH from this little hotdog compressor.

[Mike Null]

I've had a 5 hp 30 gallon Craftsman for about 15 years. I run a heat press, various pneumatic items and a sandblasting unit with it. It's generally adequate capacity for all and runs very little but it is loud.

[Larry Edgerton]

I picked up an Ingersol Rand 17.4 @ 120 two stage at Farm & Fleet for $1000. Its an industrial pump with a less than industrial motor and switch, 80 gal upright tank. I wanted an industrial pump but needed a 220 motor. I can spray continually and the pump will still cycle off. Had it for two years now, happy with it.

[Robert Parent]

Anything with a 3400 RPM motor is going to be noisy...... The low end of the market is filled with, fast motor RPM's, small compressors, which are all turning at a fast rate to give some inflated air output number some marketing dude specified. A slow motor is more expensive to build as is the larger compressor needed to give the same magic air output number. Slower RPM equates into longer life which nobody mentions! Compressors really are a you get what you pay for tool.

Robert

[CPeter James]

I have an old I/R Type 30 true 5 hp with a big Baldor motor that I bought used 25 years ago. This is my 4th compressor and my only mistake was not getting a good one in the first place. Do yourself a favor and get a real cast iron slow turning TWO STAGE compressor. It will last you for your lifetime. Used are available. There is a decent used one on the Baltimore CL right now. A I/R Garage Mate.

CPeter

[John A langley]

Bought this at Home Depot have had it seven months and no problems ,if I remember correctly it was 499.00

[Ray Newman]

"This is my 4th compressor and my only mistake was not getting a good one in the first place. Do yourself a favor and get a real cast iron slow turning TWO STAGE compressor. It will last you for your lifetime."
--CPeter James

BINGO!

[Jerome Stanek]

This week Rural King has a 60 gallon 5 hp for $399 I thought about getting one just for my laser and cnc

[CPeter James]

Why do we wood and metal workers have to be such "pikers" (Cheap)? I am as guilty as the next. My wife is a quilter. Visit a sewing machine shop where they sell top of the line sewing machines and get some real sticker shock. I looked at a sewing machine the other day and it was being "discounted" to $ll,995. That is correct Eleven thousand plus dollars and it was a sewing machine to sew fabric. . We have 5 or 6 machines in my wife's studio and two were in the $7,000 range. How much is a good compressor? or table saw? or lathe? That is why when I want something, I get I now get what I really want, not some cheap knock off. They say the most expensive tool is a cheap tool that you buy over and over and over! No more B&D for me.

Get a good, quiet slow turning compressor and never think about it again.

CPeter

[Mike Dowell]

11 grand????? Holy SMOKES! Well, I am cheap - extremely. Well, not just cheap... I also don't like to spend money at all. So, while this is a legitimate business expense and most business owners would say "get a nice one and write it off!", I say, "A nice one? but those are expensive...".

You've got a point about replacing tools all the time. If money were no object, I'd get the best compressor in existence. But, because as anyone on here who makes their living restoring furniture(or am I the only one?), you could understand that I only want what it takes to get the job done and nothing more. Think this is bad? Wait until that fateful day comes when I have the cash to replace my Dewalt toy-table saw with a real cabinet saw and come on here for guidance!

[Art Mann]

If I waited on buying a tool until I could afford exactly what I wanted, I would have abandoned woodworking 40 years ago. A fundamental trait of a majority of humanity is to always want something better than what they can afford.

[David Kumm]

I second looking for a compressor ship for a rebuilt older model. The older Quincy 325, Kellogg 335, Saylor Beall, etc had compressors that were so overbuilt they can outlive several cheap ones. As to capacity, if you plan on sanding with air, you generally need 15-17 cfm at 90 which translates to a 5 hp motor with a 60-80 gallon tank. The slower the compressor runs, the better the unit. A good compressor runs in the 600-900 rpm range. Cheap ones run twice as fast and last about 1/10 of the time as the good ones. If I recall correctly ( increasingly difficult ) I paid 800 delivered for my Kellogg American. Dave

[CPeter James]

I should add, that I am not a rich Bas***d, but got tired of buying crap and spending all my time fixing it or trying to make it work. I bought a cheap dovetail jig that I would spend several hours getting it adjusted and making test cuts and then the real ones would not fit right. I broke down and bought an Akeda and they fit right out of the box. I fussed with an old table saw and it was pretty good, but had "issues". Picked up a nicer used PM66, a much better machine. As I said after 4 compressors, got that right. After three drill presses picked up a nice old (1951) Delta 17". A pleasure to use. I had a $39 Ryobi biscuit joiner that never was right, I finally bought a PC 557 Type III, works great. You don't need the most expensive tool, but just a good tool. I even buy from HF if that tool will do what I ask of it. I have a nice bearing puller from HF that works great. It doesn't say Snap-On on the box but it always works for me. I am always on the alert for stuff on CL and most of what I have now came from there and replaced my cheap new things. Used machinery can be a good way to go.

On the compressor noise issue. My big I/R was a a little loud and when I moved to a new shop, I had the compressor bolted to a skid to make it easier to move. In the new shop, I left it on the skid with a layer of 2" blue foam insulation under it. The nose level was reduce by half.

[Mike Dowell]

This week Rural King has a 60 gallon 5 hp for $399 I thought about getting one just for my laser and cnc
That website has GREAT deals. What's the purpose of a two stage anyhow?

[Larry Edgerton]

Two stage pumps pump compressed air from one cylinder to the second smaller cylinder to be recompressed to a higher pressure. Usually 175 PSI. This gives you a lot more reserve for the given size of the tank. They run slower and make a lot less frantic [read, annoying] noise. Most, but not all are a better quality pump than the typical single stage.

[Brian Holcombe]

My father picked up a used IR two stage with an upright tank for a song. I helped him plumb it jnto his shop, and damn that compressor is sweet.

It is quiet, especially so after hearing craftsman screamers for years. Look around for a deal on a good compressor, it's set to be life changing if it's something you use daily.

[Jim Andrew]

One thing I have learned is to run synthetic compressor oil. Reduces the amount of power it takes to turn the compressor. Adds significantly to the life of the pump. And drain the water from your tank. The tanks do not seem to be coated on the inside, so you get rust.

[Jim Becker]

In a discussion about compressors a few years ago, Dennis Peacock, I believe, observed that one of the things that separates compressors of similar size and capacity is the parts that make up the "business end" of the setup. Metal vs plastic, for example. When you compare "big box" brands versus IR, Quincy, etc., that's what sets them apart. Considering that a big compressor, especially that's going to service a business that depends upon it, is an important investment for the long term, I'd certainly be opting for the better built product. My shop isn't a business, but I still made that same kind of decision when I went with the IR 60 gallon compressor quite a few years ago.

[Dave Lehnert]

I got jumped on-line for being cheap and buying a Craftsman with an aluminum pump and cast iron sleeve. Told I made a mistake.
25 + years later still going strong in my home shop.

[Peter Aeschliman]

I have a Husky 80 gallon 2 stage compressor. Bought it used on Craigslist for $550. I use it mostly for auto work (air tools and a sand blasting cabinet) while restoring my FJ40 landcruiser. Running my sand blaster, it still turns on more often than I would like. I haven't used it to spray yet, but will at some point.

If you use it for finishing AND for a business, honestly I would imagine you'd want to go with a 2 stage compressor. Save for a while longer. I know it's not the advice you want to hear, but this is your livelihood AND you get to deduct the expense.

I'm not sure how high-end your turbine-based HVLP sprayer is, but you could always sell that and buy a new HLVP gun made to work with your compressor instead. If you can sell your turbine setup for $300-$400, and buy a new $150 HVLP gun, that should help with the sticker shock of the compressor.

Just a thought!

[Mike Dowell]

I have a Husky 80 gallon 2 stage compressor. Bought it used on Craigslist for $550. I use it mostly for auto work (air tools and a sand blasting cabinet) while restoring my FJ40 landcruiser. Running my sand blaster, it still turns on more often than I would like. I haven't used it to spray yet, but will at some point.

If you use it for finishing AND for a business, honestly I would imagine you'd want to go with a 2 stage compressor. Save for a while longer. I know it's not the advice you want to hear, but this is your livelihood AND you get to deduct the expense.

I'm not sure how high-end your turbine-based HVLP sprayer is, but you could always sell that and buy a new HLVP gun made to work with your compressor instead. If you can sell your turbine setup for $300-$400, and buy a new $150 HVLP gun, that should help with the sticker shock of the compressor.

Just a thought!
This got me laughing.... well my HVLP turbine is a 5500 series from Earlex. It was $300 new. I don't put a lot of value on sprayers - I've sprayed magnificent finishes on tables using $18 HF sprayers... But for the compressor, I would really like something nice but I'm not going to spend $2000 on it - no way. I'm just a small business and my only employee is me. I don't make enough money to buy super expensive equipment, although I wish I did. I might just spring for that $500 compressor I originally posted about. Seems like on here, it's a 50/50 opinion. I guess in the end, I'm willing to take the chance on a cheaper model. I'm not saying that I don't agree that a $2000 IR two stage would be a good bet, I'm just saying that I don't plan on dropping that much cash - tax deductible or not. There was that Quincy that someone on here posted - that was about 800. I could probably stomach that if it were that much better than the Industrial Air that I posted up. THoughts?

[Mike Dowell]

What about this guy http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200455343_200455343

And how about this? this is my price range for SURE http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200455341_200455341

[Bill Space]

While nobody can argue a high quality compressors is something that we all would like to own, I'm not sure suggesting a $1000 compressor to somebody that has only $500 to spend is really very helpful.

About 10 years ago I bought a compressor similar to the one linked in the original posters post. It has served me well and I've had no problems with it. It is located in my shed, or perhaps you could call it a small barn, and it suffers the temperature variations that we have here in the Pittsburgh area.

All in all I have been satisfied with the compressor for home use. I would buy one again, even though every time I see a nice big macho compressor I feel a desire for one…

So I would say to the original poster you would probably be happy with that one you linked to, or something similar in that price range, at least in my experience.

Bill

[Mike Dowell]

While nobody can argue a high quality compressors is something that we all would like to own, I'm not sure suggesting a $1000 compressor to somebody that has only $500 to spend is really very helpful.

About 10 years ago I bought a compressor similar to the one linked in the original posters post. It has served me well and I've had no problems with it. It is located in my shed, or perhaps you could call it a small barn, and it suffers the temperature variations that we have here in the Pittsburgh area.

All in all I have been satisfied with the compressor for home use. I would buy one again, even though every time I see a nice big macho compressor I feel a desire for one…

So I would say to the original poster you would probably be happy with that one you linked to, or something similar in that price range, at least in my experience.

Bill
I appreciate the sediment Bill! I'm going to give this some deep thought. I could spend a grand. Well, I COULD spend 3 grand if I wanted to but I don't. In my business, every purchase must get weighed against it's return. A compressor is a serious organ of the woodworking shop but, I feel you can get something reasonable for less than top dollar, so I refuse to spend top dollar. $500 would be perfect - $1000 would be ok as long as that compressor was absolutely AMAZING as compared to the $500 model. There's also the consideration of shipping. I'm not paying $200 on top of the purchase price so I've been looking for free shipping deals. So, in the end, if a cheap 60 gal compressor is going to buzz and humm like my cheap 10 gal compressor, only 6 times larger, then I'll spend more and get something more serious. The question is, how junky is the original offering in my post?

Shopping is so frustrating for me because I hate spending. But, I Want to buy a compressor immediately so I've got to get this resolved.

[Michael W. Clark]

What about this guy http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200455343_200455343

And how about this? this is my price range for SURE http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200455341_200455341

Look at air compressors direct for some reviews and pricing on these. Northern doesn't include shipping, about $200 for my zip. The Puma is not a 2-stage but is low rpm. I've been seriously considering this one. I have a old Curtis that is about 40 years old and the tank is starting to make me nervous with regards to rust and condition.

[David Kumm]

Look at air compressors direct for some reviews and pricing on these. Northern doesn't include shipping, about $200 for my zip. The Puma is not a 2-stage but is low rpm. I've been seriously considering this one. I have a old Curtis that is about 40 years old and the tank is starting to make me nervous with regards to rust and condition.

Michael, have you looked into a tank and rebuild kit for the Curtis? The old ones had a good pump, especially the pressure lubed ones. Dave

[Kelby Van Patten]

The compressor in the original post delivers 11.5 CFM at 90 PSI. That's considerably short of what you would need for a pneumatic sander. You want closer to 15 or 16 CFM for that purpose.

I just went through the compressor shopping exercise. I had a 5HP single stage compressor by Kobalt that was a step up from the one you're looking at. I bought it 10 or 12 years ago. It just started giving me fits. I decided to spend the extra money for a Quincy QT-5 rather than having to continue replacing a cheaper model every decade. The Quincy is on its way, so I can't say whether it was a good decision, but that's where I ended up after thinking through the same exercise.

[Michael W. Clark]

Michael, have you looked into a tank and rebuild kit for the Curtis? The old ones had a good pump, especially the pressure lubed ones. Dave

I would definitely be interested in a source for a tank. It's 30 gallon vertical ASME. A larger tank wouldn't be a bad thing. I haven't looked for parts.

[Mike Dowell]

Look at air compressors direct for some reviews and pricing on these. Northern doesn't include shipping, about $200 for my zip. The Puma is not a 2-stage but is low rpm. I've been seriously considering this one. I have a old Curtis that is about 40 years old and the tank is starting to make me nervous with regards to rust and condition.
Will do. Am I shooting myself in the foot if I settle for a single stage? And, exactly what is considered low RPM - anything under 4k?

[Rich Engelhardt]

The question is, how junky is the original offering in my post?
As I mentioned above - it's a relable of both Porter Cable and Sanborn & probably quite a few others.
Most of which can be found for less $$ than your original link.

It's also very loud and noisy @ 83/84 db. That's louder than my direct drive oiless Ingersoll Rand (79 db) & in the same area as most of the small oiless noise makers.

Buying a compressor is one of the easiest tools there is to buy for.
You look at the air tools you want to use with it, select the one with the highest air requirement & match that up with the size compressor you'll need.
Next, you select the air tank size - that more or less tells you how long a tool can run before the pump cycles. (40, 60 or 80 gallon - - single stage or two stage)
Then you determine how long you want the compressor to last. (duty cycle and hours).

For instance - the two Puma compressors you linked to above.
One is a 3hp 60 gallon 150 psi machine with a 50% duty cycle & probably an 8,000 hour (or possibly only 5,000 hour as they don't say which) bearing life.
The other is a 5 hp, 175 psi machine with a 100% duty cycle and a 20,000 hour bearing life.
One is $500 and the other is $1000.
In a 7x24 shop, the small one might make it two years. The big one might last 10 years or more.

Do yourself a favo - go to Aircompressors Direct(dot) com - they have free shipping which you said for sure you want.
Call them and they can explain everything you need to know and match you up with the right compressor.

As I said earlier - it's a very easy tool to buy, but, it's not a yes or no type tool.

[Mike Dowell]

I'll give them a call and see what they tell me. You all have been very helpful and I appreciate everyone who weighed in on this.

[Doug Ladendorf]

I like Rich's suggestion and will check that out now myself. I would also suggest a two stage both for power and lower noise level. The cheapest one I've seen is the Harbor Freight http://www.harborfreight.com/5-hp-60-gallon-165-psi-two-stage-air-compressor-93274.html but given the quality reputation of HF I don't know how long it would last.

[Mike Dowell]

I like Rich's suggestion and will check that out now myself. I would also suggest a two stage both for power and lower noise level. The cheapest one I've seen is the Harbor Freight http://www.harborfreight.com/5-hp-60-gallon-165-psi-two-stage-air-compressor-93274.html but given the quality reputation of HF I don't know how long it would last.


Yeah, at that price point, I'd just be all in and spend the extra couple hundred on the IR.

[Mike Dowell]

Just got off the phone with Air Compressors Direct. The guy said for what I'm doing, I want a 60 gallon, 5hp compressor. He suggested that I would be fine with a single stage which impressed me because I would have assumed they would want to sell the higher dollar stuff. He added that Quincy is by far their best brand and all the others are similar to one another in quality. So, now my dilemma is, do I go for http://www.aircompressorsdirect.com/Puma-PK6560V-Air-Compressor/p592.htm (http://www.aircompressorsdirect.com/Puma-PK6560V-Air-Compressor/p592.html), or do I completely blow my wad on http://www.aircompressorsdirect.com/Quincy-2V41C60VC-Air-Compressor/p855.html?

It takes me a while to spend money - I have to think, and think an think. Right now, my feeling is to get the Puma. It's less money but still a pretty decent unit. I can't imagine it would choke on an HVLP sprayer.

[CPeter James]

For the small (relatively speaking) difference in price, my choice would be the Quincy. There are air compressors and then there are Quincy Air Compressors. If I was buying today, Quincy is where I would go. There are advantages to two stage that don't come up in normal discussions. Yes, some single stage compressors will make 150 psi, but they are struggling to do it. At 2 stage will easily do 175 psi. Do you need it? Not every day, but there are times. I have two shops and one compressor. The second shop is 250' as the air line runs from the compressor. I take tank pressure from the compressor and send it to the second shop where I have a 20 gallon tank and a regulator to bring it down to 90 psi working pressure. Also nice to have full pressure for the impact wrench on stubborn bolts.

CPeter

[Mike Dowell]

Good point. Although, I looked at all the HVLP guns I would use and they all require 12CFM@40psi. So, despite the 5hp recommendation, I am seriously thinking about http://www.aircompressorsdirect.com/Quincy-Q13160VQ-Air-Compressor/p12330.html. That way I get the quality too. I don't use anything other than spraying and this one seems doable easily. I don't have any impact guns or anything else like that.

[Peter Kelly]

Post a review if you end up getting that Quincy. I'm strongly considering that one myself as well. Would be using it for small impact driver, drill, nailers, etc.

[Michael W. Clark]

Will do. Am I shooting myself in the foot if I settle for a single stage? And, exactly what is considered low RPM - anything under 4k?

The RPM I was referring to is the speed of the pump, not the motor. There is a belt drive, so the motor spins faster. I don't really care how fast the motor spins, but if the pump spins slower, that is less revolutions, and should equate to longer bearing life. However, the pump is larger to deliver the same flow as a smaller one running faster, hence more expensive, generally.

[Michael W. Clark]

Good point. Although, I looked at all the HVLP guns I would use and they all require 12CFM@40psi. So, despite the 5hp recommendation, I am seriously thinking about http://www.aircompressorsdirect.com/Quincy-Q13160VQ-Air-Compressor/p12330.html. That way I get the quality too. I don't use anything other than spraying and this one seems doable easily. I don't have any impact guns or anything else like that.

I don't want to steer you, but I like this one too. The PUMA has a lot of good reviews, but I had not heard of it until someone mentioned it on this forum and I looked at it on that website. Quincy and IR have industrial compressors too. I would not think that the Quincy or IR in the size you are looking for is of the same quality as their industrial models, but at least they have the name recognition and maybe QC.

It looks like the smaller Quincy would more than run your gun. I've gone through the math before, but the CFM at 40psi vs 90 psi will be roughly double if memory serves. Also, keep in mind the tank would reduce the duty cycle. Theoretically, you would have about 10 minutes of spraying to get your tank down from 90 psi to 40 psi. If I sprayed for that long, I would have already had to stop and move something or reposition, which allows the compressor to catch up if needed.

My Curtis has a 1HP motor and 30 gallon vertical tank. I have the switch set for about 115 pisg off and on at 90 psig. I sprayed a coat of finish on a wetbar I did that the front panel was 8 feet long and about 3.5 feet tall, no issues with an HVLP. The compressor had kicked on before I got through spraying.

Mike

[Brian Henderson]

I have an old I/R Type 30 true 5 hp with a big Baldor motor that I bought used 25 years ago. This is my 4th compressor and my only mistake was not getting a good one in the first place. Do yourself a favor and get a real cast iron slow turning TWO STAGE compressor. It will last you for your lifetime. Used are available. There is a decent used one on the Baltimore CL right now. A I/R Garage Mate.

Exactly. I wasn't going to weigh in because I would have said just what you did. I've got an 80-gal I/R T30 two-stage, I bought mine about 20 years ago, don't remember exactly what I paid but today they go somewhere north of $2k new and it's been nothing but a pleasure and never given me a moment's trouble. Compressors are something you really can't go cheap on. You can go cheaper with a used model certainly, but $500 is probably an unrealistic number for a high-quality, problem-free machine that will last a lifetime.

[Rich Engelhardt]

It's less money but still a pretty decent unit. IWhen I spend money on my business side (instead of on the hobby side), I always ask myself, "how much money will you lose when the thing breaks down".
The stuff I buy for the hobby side of wood working, I always ask myself, "What will what I buy help me avoid destroying something or wasting money by not working".

A compressor is so essential to the things I do, I own 4 of them. Two large portables - 4.4 CFM for framing or roofing nailers and two tiny ultra portables for 18 ga nailers.
However, since I only do flooring once in a blue moon and/or do dovetail drawers once in a blue moon, Harbor Freight stuff is fine for that.

If it were me, I'd spend the extra and get the Quincy. The Quincy is a lifetime machine & just one less thing in life to worry about.
The Puma isn't a bad machine, but, it's going to break and need replaced - - it's just a matter of when.

[Mike Dowell]

Yeah, I'm going to go with the 3.5hp Quincy. As soon as I can muster up the nerve to hit "submit order", it will be on its way. I'll be certain to review it here.

[Edward Oleen]

If I was in the market for a large compressor, I would get out the Yellow Pages and find local air compressor repair shops. Then I visit and ask different repair shops what they would recommend or would not recommend for the type of use envisioned, as well as availability of parts, any design problems, etc.

Excellent suggestion!!! I second the motion.