Saw files and a gents saw I'm looking to order...

[Dennis Peacock]

OK, I admit that I really like working with my hands. I'm looking at ordering a gents saw for cutting dovetails and such. I'm looking at the Crown 17 tpi gents saw and I'd also like to find the saw file to resharpen this saw with. I'm not having any luck in finding a 17 tpi saw file. What am I not looking for? Please advise.

[george wilson]

Look on EBAY for an AMERICAN MADE extra slim triangular file(also called "3 square",though that old name makes no sense what so ever).

[Dennis Peacock]

George,
Would that be like a Simonds 8" Extra Slim Taper File? I can find that on eBay just fine. Is that what I'm looking for?

[Joe Bailey]

Dennis -- you're looking for a 4" double extra slim taper file

For future reference, you can find charts (showing which file to use for a given tooth configuration) all over the web.

Lie-Nielsen, Tools for Working Wood and VintageSaws.com, among many others, have them.

[Winton Applegate]

I'll be awful and recommend a better saw
thinner
fewer teeth per inch
longer length
I have a few Crown saws.
Nah dude, nah

[ken hatch]

I'll be awful and recommend a better saw
thinner
fewer teeth per inch
longer length
I have a few Crown saws.
Nah dude, nah

Thanks, you posted it for me......There are some good saws to be had for only a few pennies more. Gent's saw? I guess there are some folks who like 'em because they are still being made but 17 tpi to learn to sharpen....hummmm

[Tom M King]

Two things I'm glad I don't have to shop for any more, are women and saw files. To suit me, both would be hard to find again.

[Mike Brady]

My favorite joinery saws are my two Lie-Nielsen gent's saws, which they no longer stock, but might make for you. They are 15ppi. I have never seen a better made one, but I'm sure a custom saw maker like Ron Bontz could make you a dandy one. Another ploy might be to put a "wanted to buy" listing on a woodworking forum message boar. I bet you there are folks out there who would be glad to sell you one. I'm not one of them.

[Dennis Peacock]

Thanks, you posted it for me......There are some good saws to be had for only a few pennies more. Gent's saw? I guess there are some folks who like 'em because they are still being made but 17 tpi to learn to sharpen....hummmm

Well...I'm listening... :)
My mother is wanting to buy me a saw for Christmas and it's up to me to find & order it. The limit is $50.
I bought a Dozuki a few years ago and I absolutely loved that saw.!! But for the ability to resharpen my own saw, I'm choosing to go more traditional push style saw with a tooth configuration that I can learn to sharpen.

[lowell holmes]

I almost hate to do this, but here is one place where you can find them.

http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=69854&cat=1,320,43072,43089,69854

[Dennis Peacock]

Yea, Lowell....I found those. I just get confused because their file goes to 16 tpi and the saw I'm looking to buy is 17 tpi and I'm so new at this for handsaws that I am trying to learn what I need. :o

[Kees Heiden]

While you are at LV's, I can recommend their dovetail saw. The 14 tpi I have and used a lot for 1/2 to 3/4" stock.

Another idea for small sawfiles are needle files. Bahco has some very narrow ones, and I used these for 18 tpi saws.

[lowell holmes]

I have all of the items shown in the link as well as the saw file holder guide. They sure make things easier.

You might want to check out Ron Herman's video on saw sharpening. I'm a novice, but his video has helped me more than other videos that I have.

He separates tooth shaping from sharpening. I was trying to shape and sharpen the teeth at the same time.

[Dennis Peacock]

Ok, Thank you.!

[ken hatch]

Well...I'm listening... :)
My mother is wanting to buy me a saw for Christmas and it's up to me to find & order it. The limit is $50.
I bought a Dozuki a few years ago and I absolutely loved that saw.!! But for the ability to resharpen my own saw, I'm choosing to go more traditional push style saw with a tooth configuration that I can learn to sharpen.

Dennis,

Lee Valley's Molded Spine saws are as good as any. If you would like to learn to sharpen the 14 tpi dovetail saw is $69 USD with free shipping for a couple more days. If you like Gent's saws the 20 tpi is $49 USD. Learning to sharpen 15 tpi and above it a tough go, it can be done but a 14 tpi or larger will be easier. As I have posted before, I have all the Veritas saws with the exception of the Gent's saw as well as a number of high dollar saws....the Veritas are as good as you can buy.

ken

[Mike Henderson]

I wouldn't recommend a gent's saw for dovetails. The TPI are too fine so the cutting is slow. I assume they are filed for crosscut, also, and dovetail saws are filed rip. I would recommend a real dovetail saw, or if you want some other kind of saw, I'd recommend a smaller dozuki. I made dovetails for years with an inexpensive dozuki.

Mike

[Dennis Peacock]

I made my choice....I ordered the Lee Valley dovetail saw $69 plus the saw file set.
Now I'm trying to see how to read what files I already have on hand. I see markings on them but I'm not exactly sure what they say except on the larger files.
I read one that said Extra Slim....so I'd need to measure the length of the file to get the real file size/type?

I know....a million questions from a goofy newbie. :rolleyes:

[Winton Applegate]

PPPS: these are old photos I used in other forums so ignore odd things like the flush cut Crown saw and the big tenon saws.

Mike,

My favorite joinery saws are my two Lie-Nielsen gent's saws, which they no longer stock,
Are they by any chance like the top one in my first photo ?

Dennis,
Out of all the Western saws (see last photo) I bought, tuned and experimented with . . .

(of these the Crowns needed the most tuning; dull and not straight and pulled to one side from careless handling/damage to the sides of the teeth at the factory . . . they could be a night mare for someone who doesn't already know how to correct all the problems)

I found the Lie-Nielsens (see second photo) to be even better for WESTERN joinery than the Japanese saws (I have a whole other pile of Japanese saws hanging on the wall not shown).
The Japanese saws are stellar in that they are VERY sharp and MUCH straighter and more useful right out of the box.

If you are expecting straight and sharp from the majority of Western saws, even the middle grade ones (except the Lee Valley . . . which could be really excellent, I have non of those / they came latter, all their other tools are excellent) . . . well . . . getting back to the other mid grade Western saws, besides Lee Valley, I would be wary.

Please note the many Crown Gents and "dovetail" saws interspersed with the other Western saws in the last photo.
Unless you have already used a pro saw to see how a good saw can work for you and learned to sharpen it and correct all the damage from when it fell off the truck on the way home from the last Job site . . . unless you have that under your belt . . . then trying to make a Crown saw work for you is . . . well . . .

Nah dude, nah.

To interject a bit of my humor, not meant to offend, I would recommend your first purchase be a crowbar to pry open that purse of yours. Maybe a collaboration between your Mom and you for a better saw.

PS:you can learn to sharpen Japanese saws; look for "feather files" for this purpose. Practice, practice, practice on a Japanese cheapy until you GET IT though.
PPS: the feather file can cost a surprising amount of coin; glad I bought mine when they were "only" twenty dollars each.

[lowell holmes]

I attended a seminar conducted by Jeff Headly and Steve Hamilton a few years back (in Houston). While there, Steve was making a difficult cut in an awkward position using a short Garlick and Sons handsaw. It looks like a gent's saw. He commented that it was a favorite saw.

The seminar being at a Woodcraft store, I bought one before the day ended. I gave it the Frank Klausz treatment, filing it rip pattern. To this day, it is one I use frequently. It is sharp, cuts quickly and straight. It does not bind in a cut.

It has become one of my favorites. I often use it instead of one of the LN saws. If you haven't bought a saw yet, you might want to consider one.

[Ron Bontz]

Just an FYI. A 7" needle file works well on 17ppi teeth. You can get them from a few different saw makers. I prefer it over a 4xx because of the longer stroke length. 2) The Lee Valley gent saws are an excellent bang for the buck. ( Just my opinion ). I have a 20 ppi myself. It's excellent for 1/4" corner round and such. The only change I would make is to have a little less rake, say 10 or 12*. But otherwise straight rip. ( no fleam ). Best wishes.