Laser Tube 3 part question

[Junior hall]

I bought a Boss Laser 1620 back in April 2014 ( this year ) Boss laser and there employees are wonderful the help they gave is tremendous ( Robbie Kevin and the rest of them Que and Michelle and the Frenchman as they call him

My question is where can i get a laser tube 60 watt laser tube cheaper than the 650 bucks they are wanting. My laser tube broke when we had a freeze back in November 2014 ( North Carolina )as i didn't know i had water still in the tube and when it frozed and thawed out it busted the end of the tube one side Im new at laser engraving.

Where can i purchase the laser engrave blank bricks and rocks to laser engrave

BossLaser is a awesoem business well rounded and very helpful as they been on the phone for hours on end helping me

Thanks

[Bert Kemp]

Rabbit Laser USA sells 60 watt tubes for $400
Lightobjects $345

[Bill George]

LightObject dot com tube spec's and they are priced at $345, are you or do you have the mechanical skill to replace the tube? BTW they are water cooled tubes..... water freezes at 32 degrees, I have some anti freeze in my cooling system. If you are wanting to collect under warranty I am afraid you are out of luck.

This is a "SP" quality made CO2 laser tube with a life span that goes up to 2,000 hrs. Also, the output is very stable, and many manufacturers are using this SP tube for the laser machines manufacturing in China. SP is very famous CO2 laser tube manufacturer in Shanghai, China
Specification


Power: 60W
Triggering Voltage: 25KV
Operating Voltage: 18KV
Current: 20~22mA
Life Span: 1,500~2,000 hrs
Length: 1250mm/ 49"
Diameter: 55mm/ 2.16"
Water Cooling
Water temperature: 20~25'C(68-77F)

[Junior hall]

WOW I didn't even think of that Bill George with the antifreeze. I took the old one ( laser tube out ) with no problem.

Yes i am s.o.l for the warranty. I will check out the LightObject dot com Thanks so much

I got a ton of things to learn

Once again thanks so much

Junior

[John Bion]

Perhaps now would be a good time to upgrade to an 80 watt, but look for a RECCI or an EFI tube with the correct power supply, brackets; few more $ but faster.

[Bert Kemp]

Depends on what he's doing' If cutting is the main objective then an 80 watt tube might be a good bet, but if engraving is the goal, then you might want to stick with a 40 or 60 again it depends if your engraving wood 80 might be ok but if say leather or some other light material 80 might be to much. I find y 60 watt gives me a pretty good balance of both cutting and engraving. JMO


Perhaps now would be a good time to upgrade to an 80 watt, but look for a RECCI or an EFI tube with the correct power supply, brackets; few more $ but faster.

[Junior hall]

Right now all i am doing is engraving mirrors wood drinking glasses coffee mugs. Im wanting to try brick pavers and pet stones but not sure where to get those at

[Chris Corwin]

I have an 80w reci tube and it is NOT good for engraving. The dot size is way too big. I would suggest a 40w glass tube for good engraving.

If you go with an rf laser, the dot sizes are smaller at larger powered tubes and you can get good engraving results.

[Junior hall]

Ok i got my correct laser tube from boss laser which they sent me for free since the one they sent me with the machine was a 50 watt when i paid for a 60 they send it for free thanks Boss Laser

Bill George you said to put some antifreeze in the water chiller how much antifreeze should i put into the water chiller

Thanks

[Ray Scott]

I would recommend to NOT use any anti-freeze in the coolant for the 40 or 60 watt laser. There are definite problems with doing that. I haven't had issues with coolant in the 30 watt tubes yet.

My experience is that the coolant becomes conductive at the high voltages. The electricity intended for the laser gas will pierce through the epoxy seal (holding the lens/mirror at the end of the of the laser tube). I can try to explain this.

1) The primary path... The resistance of the laser gas inside the tube is (Let's use a dumb/easy number..) 100,000 ohms. This allows the arc to jump from anode to cathode... Inside the center chamber of the laser tube.

2) The alternative electrical path is to pierce or conduct through the epoxy...pierce/conduct into the coolant chamber ... Conduct through the coolant to the frame bulkhead fitting (brass piece where you plug in the chiller) ... Then conduct in the metal frame back to the laser power supply. Let's say the alternative path has a resistance of 80,000 ohms. With the coolant flowing, the resistive value is constantly changing.

The result is a current divider between path 1 and path 2. The best case is that you have a power loss in the tube. The worse issue is that you could be creating a hole in the epoxy and are releasing the laser gas from the laser tube.

This all comes from experience.. I do NOT recommend running the laser with antifreeze... I do recommend storage of the laser tube with antifreeze. You need to rinse it out pretty well before you try to use it.

One good thing is that the high voltage is "return grounded" as soon as it hits the bulkhead fitting.

other note... RV antifreeze will grow a nasty mold.

thank you

[Bill George]

My anti freeze mixture is very light, I'm sure it would slush up but not freeze solid. Been running faucet grade water in mine since day one, as I understand water is conductive Anyway I do not have a choice heat goes off things freeze.

Just want to add yes I had mold problems with RV anti-freeze.

Back to standard anti-freeze. I appreciate Rays advice but modern anti-freeze, the global stuff meant for modern cars with cooling systems that contain not only aluminum but brass, steel, iron, plastic, rubber and yes epoxy is what I use in mine. I won't advise others to do the same, but my mixture is very light only down to say + 15 Deg F and no problems in the past four or more months.

[Junior hall]

Wow Ray Scott thanks i didn't even think of all that as yes i know and understand the electricity and water conducts all kinds of things. I might just when done lasering take my air hose and push all the water out of the laser tube This is what Boss Laser told me to do after my laser tube busted couple weeks ago when we had a cold snap take the air hose and put it into the out or in let of the water and to push the air threw and out of the tube.

I might just do the air thing and save my laser tube so that way i dont have to spend 450 to 700 bucks i dont have.

Im still new to all this

Thanks to all for the helpful tips

[Dave Sheldrake]

That explains something I've seen quite a few times Ray, it's obvious really when I think about it but never crossed my mind. It may well also explain why the coloured anti freeze seems to suck power from tubes

[Bill George]

Well now you got me wondering. Went out to my now 45 Deg F shop, and its below Zero outside. Got a sample of my anti-freeze mixture out of the tank and then tap or faucet water. Strange but with my Fluke 77 digital meter and both probes at the same distance and depth, with Anti freeze mixture I get 1 or 2 Meg Ohms resistance, with my tap water same test I get 300-400 K Ohms? I will repeat the test later when I get warmed up!

When I replaced my old 30 watt tube in September (before the anti freeze) the new 40 watt tube had a thin wire wrapped around the Negative post and folded back into the tube so as to ground the water path?

[Dan Hintz]

Pure ethylene glycol has a very high resistivity (megaohms), but your typical anti-freeze is not pure. I would look for some pure stuff and use that.

[Junior hall]

Dan Hintz Im not sure they make pure ethylene glycol ( anti freeze ) any more Due to the fact of poisoning animals with it as some people use to do. But i will check to see where i can find pure anti frees aka ethylene glycol. Ill check with my auto parts stores. Any idea who sells pure ethylene glycol by chance

[Junior hall]

Dan disregard the last post i found a company that sells just pure ethylene glycol the company name is Dynalene there web site is http://www.dynalene.com/Ethylene-Glycol-Dynalene-EG-s/1847.htm

The smallest amount is 2 quarts ( 1/2 gallon )that cost with shipping 20.00 dollars Thanks i will try putting the pure ethylene glycol into the water in the chiller and mixing it together so not to frees the water in the laser tube its self thanks for the tip

[Bill George]

Dan disregard the last post i found a company that sells just pure ethylene glycol the company name is Dynalene there web site is http://www.dynalene.com/Ethylene-Glycol-Dynalene-EG-s/1847.htm

The smallest amount is 2 quarts ( 1/2 gallon )that cost with shipping 20.00 dollars Thanks i will try putting the pure ethylene glycol into the water in the chiller and mixing it together so not to frees the water in the laser tube its self thanks for the tip
I might have a 25% or less in mine, took a sample outside today 5 degrees F, and it slushed up after about two hours, Maybe longer it would have frozen solid? I doubt it.

[Matt McCoy]

Ray:

Would you advise against a cup or two of colorless propylene glycol too? It is my understanding it's essentially what RV antifreeze is made of.

Do you have a recommendation to help keep the water clean?

http://www.mcmaster.com/#8673t11/=vdlsyk

[Bill George]

I'm Not Ray but I had RV anti freeze in mine and it molded or had algae growing in it. I did a lot of research online and on the Chinese laser manufacturers website before adding a mild solution of Automotive global anti freeze to mine and Rays post was the first ever against it. Its a light green/yellow in the jug, and the mixture has a very pale green/yellow tint.

I have no choice, my pilot light goes off, power failure and its frozen. So far in the nearly 5 months its been used I have no power loss.

[Ray Scott]

Matt,

i have been been recommending one teaspoon of "Roundup" vegetation killer for every two gallons of coolant fluid. This will not help with the freezing issues, but works great against the molds. .. Be careful about re-using the teaspoon.

[Ray Scott]

I have strongly considered modifying a standard chiller. (Cw3000 or cw5000). The modification would be to remove the standard cooling controller and replace it with a controller of same size that can do the heating and cooling. In addition the the controller, we would need to install a low wattage heater element... I would also recommend to use a water level sensor that can interrupt the heating and signal an alarm. I suppose it would be good protocol to use the temperature sensor inside the tank or very close to the heater element.

i am sure all the parts can be gotten from eBay for less than $45.

This is still doesn't solve a problem of loosing power.

[Bill George]

The sensor should be located on or near the glass bulb or sensing ambient air temperature. And ideally either the pump needs to be running 24/7 or started with the freezestat (with relay) along with the heater. Would not solve the power failure issue however and we have both ice storms and blizzards. From a guy who used to design control systems.

[Rich Harman]

I handled the potential freezing problem by placing a small space heater inside my laser, behind the table - which is directly under the tube. It is set to about 45 or 50 degrees. It's a lot cheaper to heat just the laser than the entire shop.

[Annette Thomas]

I just purchased a Boss Laser LS-2436 with a 60 watt and the tech put in the antifreeze for me with distilled water. I wouldn't think if it were harmful, they would do it. I have mine in a garage without heat 50% of the time. I heat it up when I am going to work in there so will let you know if I have any problems as it is 24 degrees this morning with no heat in there. I am new here to posting but have been reading a lot so this forum is much appreciated.

Annette

[Dan Hintz]

I just purchased a Boss Laser LS-2436 with a 60 watt and the tech put in the antifreeze for me with distilled water. I wouldn't think if it were harmful, they would do it.

I won't comment on the wiseness of using antifreeze... you read the thread(s), you can make up your own mind.

But I will warn you... do not be lulled into a false sense of security when it comes to techs. Most couldn't blow their nose without a procedure manual, and heaven forbid the problem be slightly different than the manual suggests. There are a handful of good techs out there who actually understand the issues and can solve them... but they're few and far between.

[Junior hall]

Annette Thomas (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/member.php?36577-Annette-Thomas) every body at Boss Laser are wonderful people very very helpful. What i do when i am finished and ready to put things up i take the inlet hose off the machine and put the air hose from the air compressor into the inlet outlet and blow the water out back into the chiller as this helps also i got a very little i say about half a quart in the chiller with water. I am being extra safe as i do not want to buy a 60 watt tube that cost 659 bucks

[Junior hall]

Annette Thomas (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/member.php?36577-Annette-Thomas) where are you at as i am in north carolina and it is also 23 degrees bbbbbbbrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

[Annette Thomas]

Tennessee...

[Dave Sheldrake]

I won't comment on the wiseness of using antifreeze... you read the thread(s), you can make up your own mind.

But I will warn you... do not be lulled into a false sense of security when it comes to techs. Most couldn't blow their nose without a procedure manual, and heaven forbid the problem be slightly different than the manual suggests. There are a handful of good techs out there who actually understand the issues and can solve them... but they're few and far between.

top advice ;)

A lot of *experts* only know 5% more than the people they talk to.

[Annette Thomas]

The tech that installed mine actually works at the factory manufacturing them so he was very knowledgeable. One of the owners of the business actually recommended the antifreeze. So far so good!

[Bill George]

The tech that installed mine actually works at the factory manufacturing them so he was very knowledgeable. One of the owners of the business actually recommended the antifreeze. So far so good!
Been on several Chinese laser manufacturers websites and they recommend anti freeze when temperatures are below freezing. Since modern car engines cooling systems use epoxy, plastic, aluminum and other materials now, I don't see how anti freeze of the current day and age can harm anything. Except your pets and you if you drink!

[Bert Kemp]

From what I read anti freeze conducts electricity and in the higher power tubes (80 watt+) anti freeze can arc and in some case's burn out your laser. Like those that know say beware it can happen. There are safer ways with less potential to damage the laser then by putting anti freeze in it. A wise man once told me that a 100 men can jump off the bridge and survive but that 100 and 1st hit the water wrong and died. So hey what ever blows your dress up, but I wouldn't be telling people its ok to put anti freeze in the laser water unless your willing to cover the replacement cost if things go bad:rolleyes:


Been on several Chinese laser manufacturers websites and they recommend anti freeze when temperatures are below freezing. Since modern car engines cooling systems use epoxy, plastic, aluminum and other materials now, I don't see how anti freeze of the current day and age can harm anything. Except your pets and you if you drink!

[Matt McCoy]

Bert: Was that shared in a thread on this forum? Do you have a link or remember where you saw that?

I was under the impression that Ray Scott passed along that the tinted RV antifreeze reduced the power and possibly caused things to grow inside the tube.

I started using a mixture of clear propylene glycol this winter and have not had to adjust settings for engraving or cutting. I don't see anything growing in the tube or bucket either. I don't know if this is typical or not.

[Jerome Stanek]

I have been using the pink rv antifreeze since Sept and have not noticed any reduced power and now growth in the liquid. I don't see why it would grow anything when it is cold and dark.

[Rich Harman]

Ray had said that antifreeze lowers the resistance of the water which could lead to arcing through the water instead of through the laser. Someone else measured the conductivity of the antifreeze/water mixture and the result seemed to conflict with that theory.

Water is a good conductor of heat. Adding antifreeze reduces heat conductivity but is a necessary compromise when you need corrosion inhibition and freeze protection. As far as electrical conductivity, I don't know.

Regarding stuff growing in the water, it does. I would have thought that the UV radiation put off by the tube would keep the water free of life. UV lights are commonly used in pool and spa systems to kill critters. I guess our lasers don't put out enough UV to do the job.

[Bill George]

Current follows the path of least resistance, your HV 20K is headed for the perfect ground at the other end of the tube. Water (except for distilled) is a conductor, ask someone who is standing in it changing a fuse. Anti-freeze added to water might change the resistance some but I could not see the difference when I tested. Bert there is glass between the water and the high voltage. Glass (and porcelain a form of glass ) is used for HV insulators on power lines.

What I really said : Been on several Chinese laser manufacturers websites and they recommend anti freeze when temperatures are below freezing. Since modern car engines cooling systems use epoxy, plastic, aluminum and other materials now, I don't see how anti freeze of the current day and age can harm anything. Except your pets and you if you drink!

FYI I have had anti freeze ( a very light yellow tint) in my machine for six months or so.... nothing has blew up and I have not lost any power. Your results may vary, use with caution. Looks like Boss Laser uses it all the time.

[matthew knott]

This makes no sense, water is pretty good at conducting electricity at high voltages! Di water is better, but Di water doesn't like being DI water and will attack any metal in the water system and soon it's conduction will go up. Maybe the anti freeze could attack the epoxy but I doubt it's down to the resistance of the fluid in your water system. We stick antifreeze in ours, been 2 years and no problems! Our building never gets bellow 15 degrees C as the heater kicks in but always worry one cold snap the heater could fail.

[Bill George]

Well I went out and took a 1/2 of a 3 oz cup (waxed cardboard) of water / anti freeze mixture out of my bucket and same with tap water.
Hard to get real solid results but the tap water, not softened with lots of minerals and lime was around 900 K Ohms, not a really good conductor but at high voltage it could be. Same water with anti freeze, same meter (Fluke 75) same probes and as I could get same depth... the anti freeze mixture had a higher resistance over 1 Meg Ohm, even seeing 2 Meg Ohms at times.
So tap water or water other than distilled may be a conductor at times, certainly not a good one however. Anti freeze at least what I am using anyway seems to make it Less of a conductor.
Your results may vary, use this information at your own risk. No warranty expressed or implied.

[matthew knott]

Easy way to find out, tip a bag of salt into the cooling system! The epoxy if done properly it should easily be able to insulate from the water HT side, if it's not and a leak can occur I suspect that the addition of anti freeze is not really going to hurry things on much. Anti freeze is not as good at conducting heat so maybe localised heating that breaks down the epoxy! Obviously people on here with lots of experience don't advise antifreeze so something is probably a miss, so I guess it's personal choice, the way I choice to look at it is antifreeze may damage the laser but there are no hard facts to support this but if the tube does freeze you can be 99% certain that it will break. Horse for courses

[Bert Kemp]

All I know is Ray told me not to use it so I won't:)

[matthew knott]

That contradicts the advice on rabbitusa website! Maybe it needs updating as it clearly says "it is typical to use a mixture of water and glycol (antifreeze) as the coolant" or words to that effect, I can't copy and paste for some reason! Found that by googling laser tube + antifreeze and its high in the search. Just make sure it doesn't freeze and your fine,

[Bert Kemp]

Direct Quote from Ray Scott in this thread "I would recommend to NOT use any anti-freeze in the coolant for the 40 or 60 watt laser. There are definite problems with doing that. I haven't had issues with coolant in the 30 watt tubes yet."
I have a 60 watt and this is what he also told me.This is my last post on this subject.


That contradicts the advice on rabbitusa website! Maybe it needs updating as it clearly says "it is typical to use a mixture of water and glycol (antifreeze) as the coolant" or words to that effect, I can't copy and paste for some reason! Found that by googling laser tube + antifreeze and its high in the search. Just make sure it doesn't freeze and your fine,

[Bill George]

Well with almost 1,700 views as of this morning I'd say there was a little interest in the subject! My replacement tube was made by a different company than the one supplied with the machine. Perhaps with all the manufacturing of laser tubes in China and elsewhere there are different methods and materials used. My replacement tube was of much better quality than the OEM one which only lasted 3 months. The new one has a six month warranty.

[Annette Thomas]

Bill George it seems it is a very popular subject. Thanks for your input.

Annette

[John Noell]

top advice ;)

A lot of *experts* only know 5% more than the people they talk to. I think you are generous with 5%. Too many have only learned how to SOUND as if they know something.