Used Powermatic 8 inch JOINTER, price seems high to me.

[Scott Brandstetter]

Seller asking $800 and says it's like new (LOL). I am not sure but I think this is just a few years old (maybe 15 or more)

In all seriousness, any idea what would be a fair deal for this, assuming it's square and flat, no bearing issues, etc. Thanks in advance

302663

[Roger Chandler]

uh, don't look now but that is not a lathe! It looks like an 8" jointer! :D

[John M. Smith]

I vote jointer also. I would also say it is 30 years old or more. I've had my table saw for over 25 years and they were using metallic gold paint at that time. The green paint was before that.

I have an old powermatic lathe in that color dated 1965. Not sure when they switched from green to gold.

[John M. Smith]

Just pulled this off another sight. The internet is great!

Gray / Grey
1958 and before


Vista / Pea Green
1959 - 1969


Evergreen / Metallic Green
1970 - 1981


Metallic Gold 1
1982 - 1993


Metallic Gold 2 AKA 1977 GM Cadillac - Sovereign Gold Metalic
1994 - 1995


Mustard Yellow
1996 - Present

[Doug Ladendorf]

Scott, I think $800 is high for a Powermatic 60, but that one looks to be in excellent shape. Comparative value it still beats anything new in that price range. Now if it's a lathe you want to buy you might want to check out a few more videos online before spending money...

[Scott Brandstetter]

I apologize for saying lathe, too much on my mind, and, I swear, not too much egg nog. I have been searching Craigslist for months and cannot find a good or even decent buy on an 8 inch JOINTER, lol. When I do, they are gone in hours, or less. I have set my mind on getting an 8 inch Grizzly but I know a lot of you swear by the older powermatics. Just trying not to make a mistake.

Merry Christmas to everyone. May God Bless each and every one of you.

[Bob Coates]

Scott,
I have the old equivalent grizzly g0490 and have had only the capacitor go bad. About 3 years ago I added the spiral cutters and love it. For 800 I think I would pass and get a grizzly.
Bob

[Pat Scott]

I have a Grizzly G0593 jointer with 8" spiral cutterhead. I've had it for 7 years and haven't had a single problem. I should probably rotate the cutters one of these days also! (they've never been rotated yet and still cut fine). I considered a new 8" Powermatic, but if I remember right it was twice the price. My local community college had two of the Grizzly G0593's, and there was always a line to use them. The school machines take a lot of abuse, so I figured if they could stand up to students without having problems, it would serve me well. For $1000 it was a good buy.

The G0593 isn't made anymore, the replacement is G0656. The price has only gone up a couple hundred bucks in 7 years, which isn't bad.

The spiral cutterhead is well worth it in my opinion. One problem I have had occasionally is the dust chute will clog up with chips. The spiral cutterhead makes a lot more small chips than a knife cutterhead. My old dust collector just couldn't keep up and occasionally it would clog. It was easy to clear, I'd just stick my air hose through the side of the cutterhead and aim it towards the dust chute and blow (with the dust collector running). I upgraded to a more powerful cyclone a few months ago and haven't had the problem since, but I haven't used the jointer that much either. I don't know if the dust chute is better or different on the Powermatic, but again for 1/2 the price I've been very pleased.

[Reed Gray]

For that joiner, depending on motor and condition, $800 could be a fair deal. Heavy iron, made in the USA. You can replace the cutter head.

robo hippy

[John Sanford]

Go with your heart.

[John G Pierce]

Scott, I don't mean to be flippant, but nobody on this forum can tell you if this jointer is worth $800 without doing a full inspection. I have rebuilt two older jointers in the last year, though not a PM60. I know a lot more now about what to look at, although I don't claim to be an expert. As others have suggested, if this jointer really is in excellent shape, it could well be worth $800. We would all like a better bargain, and sometimes we get lucky, but that was a quality machine when it was new, and such heavy iron and quality machining is expensive. Forgive me if you know all this, but the things I would look at when considering the machine:

1. The really important part is the flatness of each table separately. At lot else can be fixed, but not a bad table. Take with you a precision machinist square or short precision straight edge, and a long precision straight edge. (Don’t try to use a framing square, or anything that you can buy at a big box store.) Since most of us don't have a long precision straight edge, and they are very expensive, consider acquiring a 6-foot length of extruded aluminum, such as Faztek 15QE1530. These are straight within a few thousandths in my experience. You will need something like it later to properly shim the tables of any long-bed jointer. Check each table by itself. Use the square and feeler gauges to check flatness across the short dimension of each table. Use the long straight edge to check flatness of each table, again with feeler gauges, along its length. A warped, groove-worn, or twisted table is the worst problem, and would make me pass on the machine. Flat within .010" might be acceptable, and is comparable to new JET equipment standards, as best as have been able to find. Flat within .006 inches is good. Flat within .003 inches is terrific. Whatever you find, if you are still interested, you can use findings as a tangible basis to negotiate the price, or pass on the machine.
2. Check that the tables adjust smoothly up and down. If rough, look closely. That can probably be corrected, but it is another basis to negotiate the price. You eventually need to know how to adjust the gibs and shim the tables, so it might be good to download a manual, and familiarize yourself ahead of time, or ask the seller to show you. It can be a time-consuming process to get the tables parallel to a degree that is close to perfection, especially if there is any table-twist at all to cope with.
3. Next check the parallel-ness (co-planar, some people call it) of the tables by laying the long straight edge across both tables, and check for gaps with the feeler gauges. To accomplish this you have to either remove the knives, or raise both tables above the knives. Perfect condition would be no gap anywhere along the length of any part of either table. You will probably find that the far end, or a far corner, of one or both of the tables will have some sag. It can take a little fussing to decide when both tables are at the same height if they are NOT parallel in both directions. Go by the edge of the tables next to the cutter head. I would expect that unless the seller is sharp, and has recently shimmed the tables to parallel, there will be some sag on one or both tables. As long both tables are flat, you can usually bring them into parallel with shim stock once you have the jointer in your shop. If the seller is not sharp, you can point out the sagging end or corner with deep concern to negotiate a better price. If one table is twisted, there will be no way to shim them to parallel. If there is only a few thousandths twist – then you decide.
4. If you are still interested at this point, remove the drive belt and spin the motor shaft by hand. Does it turn silently and smoothly? Grab hold of the motor shaft and try to move it up or down, or in or out. If all is tight and silent, the motor bearings and shaft are good. Now run the motor without the belt installed and be sure all is smooth and quiet. If there is any roughness or play in motor shaft, you can pass on it, or use that as a point to negotiate a lower price.
5. Still, with the drive belt off, spin the cutter head by hand. Check for shaft movement as you did with the motor shaft. Does the cutter head turn silently and smoothly, without can rough spots? If any roughness, you have the same option to negotiate a lower price. Cutter head bearings are not expensive, and are usually easy to replace, unless corrosion has things frozen up.
6. Look it over carefully for cracked or chipped castings. Some cracks will be deal killers. Some might be OKAY to live with, but serve as the basis for negotiating a better price.
7. Carefully inspect the rest of the bits and pieces for problems.
8. If you are still interested, ask the seller to put the drive belt back on and run the machine. Joint a board, all the while observing for any unacceptable vibration.

That inspection is a bit of work, but it is the only way you can really know the condition of what the seller has. If all is perfect, as it would be if it really is “like new”, it would be worth $800. If you don’t want to make such a detailed inspection, you can either take a chance on the seller’s word for it, or it might be better to pay a lot more and buy a comparable new machine with a warranty. Personally, I really like messing with old American iron like this, but replacement parts can be hard tofind (expensive), so it is best to inspect carefully and thoroughly to have an informed basis for your decision. Maybe others can suggest some points I have forgotten.

[Steven Satur]

That is a better jointer then one you are going to buy today new. I buddy of mine paid that amount for the same jointer last year. I turned it up and it runs like a champ, he loves it.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Scott, I don't mean to be flippant, but nobody on this forum can tell you if this jointer is worth $800 without doing a full inspection. I have rebuilt two older jointers in the last year, though not a PM60. I know a lot more now about what to look at, although I don't claim to be an expert.


John:

1. I don't think any of the replies were intended to be definitive absent an inspection. Not quite sure how you read that into them.

2. It is entirely reasonable to believe that the $800 could be a fair deal, assuming the machine is in good shape.

3. I have found that the market value for a particular item is very much driven by locale, and timing.

> Some things are more readily available in certain parts of the country, andnot so much in others.

> Timing is everything - I am in a big market area - Atlanta - and was looking without success for a gizmo which should have been about $250 in good shape. Looked twice a day, every day, for 3 months. Kind of threw up my hands......took 4 days off, and restarted only to find that precise item had sold day-before-yesterday, for $150.

> I could afford patience in acquisiton that time - other times, paience is not an option.

> Each of these factors impact the price you are willing to pay/must be willing to pay.

4. Extremely detailed analysis of a solid inspection protocol. Very nice. Of course, if someone is focused on scoring 10/10 on every item, I think they are probably not correct in searching the used market.

5. Do you think you might make some adjustments to the font/size you used in your first post here? Tone it down a little, as it were. Make it a little eaiser on the eyes next time, and make it consistent with the other posts here.

Thanks for your input - glad to have your insight available.

Kent

[David Kumm]

If condition is good and tables are flat and co planar I would pay 800 for the old PM long before anything close on a new jointer. Old Meehanite rated cast iron that age will never move anymore and is likely a finer grain and milled to tighter tolerances than new stuff unless priced way higher. Again, condition is important but jointers are the best value in old machinery as they are pretty much dependent on the quality of cast iron and grind. Dave

[John G Pierce]

If condition is good and tables are flat and co planar I would pay 800 for the old PM long before anything close on a new jointer. Dave

I agree. I don't think it would need to be "like new" to be worth $800.

[John G Pierce]

John:

1. I don't think any of the replies were intended to be definitive absent an inspection. Not quite sure how you read that into them.


Kent

Sorry. I didn't mean to make that implication either, although I can see now how it might be taken that way. Just that it is not possible to really know without looking it over. And things to consider in addition to the condition of the tables.

[Dave Cav]

I have used PM 60 jointers in a number of school shops and they are great machines; solid, durable and easy to work on if necessary. I have also converted two of them to Byrd heads and it is a very worthwhile conversion, and only takes about an hour.

That being said, I also used an 8" Grizzly with a spiral head at home for a number of years and was perfectly satisfied with it. I only sold it recently because I found a nice 12" jointer.

Given the relative scarcity of 8" jointers compared to 6" models and their high demand, I don't think the price is out of line; you could buy it and put a Byrd head in it and still be in the ballpark for the price of a spiral head Grizzly.

[Mike Cutler]

Like many others have stated, it depends on the condition.
If there was nothing wrong with that Jointer, and everything functioned properly, I'd buy for that one, over a new one with a warranty.

[roger wiegand]

It's supply and demand. Many people would like to have a good old 8" Delta or Powermatic jointer (including me, I've been looking for a while), there aren't so many around, hence the value stays high. In my area (Boston) I would say $800 is typical for one of these machines on CL over the last six months. The optimists ask $1200, the ones that list for $600 are gone before you call unless there is a problem with them.

[glenn bradley]

To the basic question, the price is too high IMHO. PM has a loyal following and even at today's quality, folks still pay a premium for them. If the machine has been well cared for, it is probably pretty solid. It is old enough to have a quality motor without being so old that it lacks semi-modern refinements (bearings versus oil-cups :)).

As John P mentions a full inspection would have to be done. This inspection would have to reveal a near pristine machine for it to get that price from me. Jointers are pretty basic machines but, while that means there is little to go wrong, it also means that a little thing wrong can cause trouble.

If the dovetail ways are not worn, everything is true or can be made so and the electrical is sound, it could be worth the money to you just for the old-arn bragging rights. I am biased as I walked away from knifed machines (went spiral) years ago and would be loath to go back. Others have different opinions.

[brett gallmeyer]

I do some buying and selling of machines. If everything is in working order I would say $600-800. It all depends on your market and how often 8" Jointers show up for sale. I'm a firm believer that I never buy anything unless its a steal or I really really need it now. Earlier this year I bought an 8" Powermatic Jointer at action for a ridiculously cheap price $175 i think.. I cleaned it up. checked the bearings, Installed a VFD, aligned it, put new knives in it, and sold it for $700. Just to give you an idea. I would not pay $800 for one that has just been sitting in someones shop.
Also just a frame of refrence I picked up a 12" Moak jointer for $600 at auction. It needed a little work but man that baby hums and now I have a $1500-2500 jointer.

[William A. Parker]

Unless that jointer has been repainted that is the pea green. I have a 1976 PM 8 Forrest green jointer that I would not trade for any brand new jointer. It is American made and heavy cast iron. I bought mine from a cabinet shop and it was still in great shape. It is extremely flat and I regularly edge joint 8 and 10 foot boards with this machine. Go look at it if it's in good shape buy it. It will last a life time.

[george newbury]

I paid $937 for one last year.
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?188861-Where-to-buy-used-equipment&p=2157806#post2157806
But it came with a few accessories:
Band saw, planer, 2 tablesaws, disc sander, RAS.

Point is that old iron can often be had for low $$. More important - IS IT WORTH IT TO YOU??
And remember to figure in the cost of transportation - With taxes, tags, repairs, depreciation and insurance I figure my duallie costs about $1/mile.

As far as that jointer goes I wouldn't look at one that costs more than half what a new one costs delivered to my door.

[Rick Fisher]

I have a 12" Jointer that I bought in 2008 ish .. I cant remember what I paid for it . Does it really matter ? I know that each time I turn it on, its impressive how nice it is to use. I bet that Powermatic would be the same. American built during a period when quality was more important than price . That jointer may not be worth $800 today, but it will be for sure in 5-10 years.

If the hobby is making chips.. then buy it ..

[Jerry Olexa]

$800 seems fair but I would inspect and use prior to buying....Also, then make an offer based on what you feel..They can only say no....go w your instincts and knowledge...

[Mike Hollingsworth]

Delta used to be the gold standard.
They are NOT worth what they used to.
Parts are nearly impossible.

[jonathan eagle]

It really should be measured upon functionality and not weight in pounds. Too much is made of pure weight.
Those old battleships were sure heavy! Not sure they would be of much use in a modern scenario.

[David Kumm]

It really should be measured upon functionality and not weight in pounds. Too much is made of pure weight.
Those old battleships were sure heavy! Not sure they would be of much use in a modern scenario.

Woodworking machines are not Battleships either. They do generally benefit from additional weight if the weight is designed correctly. Jointers in particular ( bandsaws would also qualify ) need heavy castings for the tables and a heavy base. The vibration dampening of cast iron made it a great material for a base until it became too expensive. When machines went away from cast iron, the steel used instead was 3/4" thick or or more. Now 6mm is considered top of the line. Advances have been made to allow for less mass but when looking at used weight is still an indicator. I've owned and used machines from the 1920s to the present and can say that even the top end new won't last as long under use as some of the old stuff made by the same companies. Drop a few 75lb chunks on a jointer and the benefit of mass will become evident. While I would take a good condition PM 60 over most 8" made today, it isn't in the same league as an 8" Oliver, Yates, or northfield either. Dave