Bailey #5 worth?

[Jerry Olexa]

I recently bought a bunch of tools from a friend who was retiring and moving..Along with the sale came two (2) Bailey #5 in decent condition..Started the initial cleaning etc..There is no rust.All parts intact..I believe they are post WW2....My question is what are they generally worth? I do much WWing and have learned the value of handplanes but not experienced in this area...Your advice as to their worth will be appreciated...Thanks,

[Mike Henderson]

I can't give you an exact figure, but #5's are pretty common. And post WW2 is not in high demand. Check eBay, but I'd guess $15 to $25, depending on condition.

Post WW2 did not have rosewood handles (and totes), which is one reason for the low demand.

Mike

[Jim Koepke]

Jerry,

Pictures would help.

As Mike said, after WW II the quality wasn't what it was earlier. IMO, any of Stanley's planes after about 1930 are not that desirable. That is, after all, just my opinion.

There were some made after WW II that users might like. Still the price usually doesn't go above $35. Sometimes on ebay an auction will get out of hand. There have been posts here about some reaching ridiculous prices. No one knows why.

jtk

[Andy J Smith]

The last 1950's #5 I restored went for $16.00 on eBay, which was probably too cheap. I believe I paid $30.00 for the unrestored pre WWII #5 that is my user.

[Stew Denton]

Jerry,

Another reason that the post WW2 Stanley planes are less desirable actually began about 1933. About then Stanley went from the flat topped frogs to the skeletonized frogs, probably to cut down on machining costs. The older frog style is better. This was the case with the Stanley Bailey planes.

However, with the Bedrock series, they left the frogs alone, keeping the earlier type, and the frog design was unchanged until they were discontinued in WW2. For that reason, all of the Bedrocks are highly desirable, in my view.

Regards,

Stew

[Jerry Olexa]

Here are a few pics with more detail...The planes are only rough cleaned....Thanks,

[Robert Hazelwood]

I don't think those are post-WWII. The lever caps are pre-1930s at least (they have the keyhole shape for the cap screw versus the kidney shape on later models) and they lack the stanley logo. The Stanley logo on the cutting iron on the plane on the left is an older design, and the three patent dates on the casting in the last picture is from an older plane, I believe. These could be frankenplanes (parts mixed and matched from various eras), but they look to be a fair bit older than WWII. You can search for the Stanley Type Study which will help you date the plane and give a Type listing when you sell it. However, a #5 is never going to be worth all that much, even from the best production years, simply because they are so widely available. Unless you have something new in box, or from a really old (1870s) plane, the values stay in the same ballpark. If you clean them up and can sell them as ready-to-use, you might be able to get a few more dollars. Once you figure out what type they are, you can browse completed auctions and get a sense of what these are selling for.

[Judson Green]

If those where at a flea market and the sticker was over $10 I wouldn't even pick em up to have a better look, but I've got 3 already. However, those should make good users. You might wanna repair/replace the horn on the top of the tote.

Hang hole in one and the knob screw is wrong (if its even there) on the other.

The one with the lower knob, I think its the one with the hang hole, is better in my opinion just cause of the lower knob.

I'd fix em up and use em. Or if you've got a few 5's already then maybe make one good complete 5 and keep the other for parts.

[Jim Koepke]

Robert beat me to the post.

My thought on the tall knob is it is a replacement.

They both have type 11 features. If both bases have the same dates in the casting that would seal the deal.

Johnny Kleso has a great type study with pictures:

https://home.comcast.net/~rarebear/planes101/typing/typing.htm

One thing to remember is there are occasional part change overlaps around the edges.

jtk

[Stew Denton]

Jerry, as was pointed out, definitely earlier than WW2. The plane on the left has what is known as the "V" logo on the iron, and I think that was produced from 1910 to 1914 or so, and was on the type 11, which was made between 1910 and 1918. I can't make out the logo on the other iron. The patent dates shown show that that plane is a type 11 or 12. The type 12 was made between 1919 and 1925 so far as I have been able to determine.

Both have a lever cap without the Stanley logo, which Stanley began to put on them in 1925, on the type 13. In the side view, the bottom plane is a type 11 at the latest, because the short form knob was last used by Stanley on the type 11.

Both of them look like they have the small diameter adjuster wheels, which were last used on the type 11. Finally, the "Bailey" on the plane is in front of the knob, and Stanley last had it that way on the type 14, which means they were both made in 1930 or earlier. Also, after 1933 they added a raised ridge along the front edge of the plane, a feature lacking in these two.

Because of these features, and the comments from Jim and Robert above, I believe that the one with the short knob is likely a type 11 (1910 to 1918) and the one with the tall knob is likely a type 12 (1919 to 1924.) Such is a guess, however, and a careful inspection might reveal whether I am right or wrong. Stanley wasn't worried about "types" when they made the planes, so they used up parts they had in inventory, so there is some overlap in "types", and of course, Frankenplanes exist, but the casting on "Bailey" and the patent dates is a very clear indicator.

If there are no cracks, initials, or serious dents in the planes, the one with the good tote might bring $50 if it were restored to look really nice. The other one, also if really spruced up with no cracks, user initials, or serious dents, might bring $30. (Both are Ebay prices.) They would sell as users, not collectors. The main problem with the price is that they are #5s, which are the most common size you see, by far.

"As is" I would guess the one with the good tote at maybe $30, and the other at maybe $20. All of these estimates are probably on "high typical" end of the values.

Stew

[Jim Koepke]

Both of the planes look to have the small (1") depth adjuster. Type 12 used the large (1-1/4") depth adjuster.

Kind of hard to tell from the images if they are both small adjusters.

jtk

[Jerry Olexa]

Closer look at 2 depth adjusters:302746302747

[Jerry Olexa]

I have learned much from this thread...The planes are older than I expected. It confirms my thinking of "go to the experts when its a field of which you are not knowledgable"...I'm now thinking I will keep one of these and maybe sell the other..I'll not make a move till I read your further advice and comments..Thanks in advance.

[Stew Denton]

Jerry,

If you don't have a high quality #5, I would certainly keep one of them. A little bit of restoration would likely put both of these planes in the high quality category, by my way of thinking.

For what its worth, both of them have the small diameter adjusters that Jim and I have both alluded to. Thus, the latest that these two planes can be is type 11, by the normal standard, although it is possible that the one with the tall knob used carry over inventory at Stanley, and is a very early type 12, made using up the remaining inventory of type 11 frogs before starting to use the new castings. It is also possible that an owner broke and replaced the original short knob with a newer one obtained from Stanley. Either way these are both type 11 or early type 12 and both high quality planes with little practical difference between them.

If you don't have a fore plane, I would set up one as a fore plane, with an iron having an 8 or 10 inch radius, and the other one with a nearly straight iron for trimming doors, shooting, and other uses that call for a Jack plane. It is nice to have two planes set up for the way you use them, rather than to switch out irons. If you are new to using bench planes, and don't have a #4 smoothing plane, you might be able to trade one of them for a #4.

Stew

[Jim Koepke]

It confirms my thinking of "go to the experts when its a field of which you are not knowledgable"

My knowledge comes from studying sites like Johnny Kleso's at > www.rexmill.com <.

+1 on what Stew said.

A #5 is a bit long for a smoother but it can leave as good a surface. It is capable of many tasks. Which is why it is often known as a Jack plane in reference to being a 'Jack of all trades.'

If you work rough sawn wood, setting up one with a cambered blade for scrub plane use is a common use. It can also be used as a short joiner if you edge join boards.

Right now there are four #5s in my shop. They all get used at times.

jtk

[Jerry Olexa]

I have learned a lot in this thread.. Find myself enjoying dismantling the 2 planes and doing the initial cleaning, etc,,,Heading out later this AM to pick up supplies for metal cleaning (rust remover, apple cider vinegar, scotch pads, etc).....Also learning online the nuances, history etc..Could be addictive. THANKS very much to all of you..Your advice is invaluable....I'll let you know how the process goes...sincere thanks.

[Jim Koepke]

Jerry,

If you enjoy dismantling the planes and other tools you may find this interesting:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?103805-Neanderthal-wisdom-FAQs

This is one of the Neanderthal Sticky Threads.

The 9th section is on Rehabbing Old Tools.

Bob Smalser and I have both posted on fixing up old planes.

Have fun with the rust.

jtk

[Jerry Olexa]

The saga continues ..I'll give you a short update ..I spent 3 days with the rust remover, WD 40, steel wool etc.. then came the tuning,adjusting and sharpening for the 2 Baileys. I became attached to the long handle 5 and really wanted to keep it..It planed beautifully after the clean up.. But I ran short ad to “test the waters” .Priced the long handle at $50 and the smaller $ 40 thinking that they would probably barter..Within 3 hours, I had offer to buy both for $80. The gentleman is buying these for his volunteer organization (they are training veterans to learn woodwoking/various trades). I reluctantly let go of my now beloved # 5 ..But I feel it went to a good cause.. I learned a lot from all of ,you in this thread. I appreciate your help...It was a good experience..Now I will keep my eye out for new “old” iron to work on..Sincere thanks302971302972

[Jim Koepke]

Good to hear they went to a good home.

jtk