Best way to sharpen a scraper

[Lee Schierer]

For a couple of years now I have from time to time removed the iron from my Stanly No 80 Scraper to use it free hand. I felt that it was a little thick so it couldn't be bowed slightly to prevent scratches from the corners. I liked what it did, but felt I needed to actually have a dedicated set of scrapers.

I recently purchased a set of three scrapers 302587 and a burnishing tool. These scrapers are 0.033" thick. I have a few questions.

1. What is the best way to prepare the edge on these to form the burr properly for scraping.

2. How do I know when the burr is properly formed.

3. What cut of file should I use? Or is something else better?

4. How does one form the burr on the curved edges?

5. Once I form a burr how long does it last before I need to repeat the preparation and burr forming process?

6. Should the shavings look like sawdust or extremely thin hand plane shavings?

[Winton Applegate]

You have many questions. They have all been answered in previous threads. That said I am sure we will all have fun re arguing the whole thing all over again.

Because there are many people here who are more accomplished with all you ask than I . . . I will leave them the room to go for it.

Looks like your scrapers are Crown brand.
You didn't say.

Having struggled with scraper sharpening as a flirting on again off again thing and finally getting excellent results I have a couple of opinions/facts/illusions (depending on who you talk to here) :

Quality /brand is everything. Why ? Because the cheep stuff or scrapers that have been made with out attention and care are bent along the edges where they have been sheared or punched out. Unless the faces of the sheet metal are flat it is difficult/tricky/impossible to get the kind of edge/results that high quality scrapers make easy.

Who makes high quality scrapers ? Lie-Nielsen and Bahco (http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/bahco474cardscraper.aspx)

Yes thick hard steel like you first used can make an excellent scraper; I know of at least one Pro plane maker that swears by those rather than thin sheet metal for a hand held scraper for his personal projects. By the way he does not roll the edge with the burnisher he just hones them square and starts scraping.

For me a real burnishing tool worked much better than all the various junk people recommended to use instead.
The revelation for me was when I started burnishing the edges with a solid carbide milling machine cutter that had a highly polished smooth shaft.

You don't need carbide but the burnisher needs to be both hard enough and highly polished.
I bought a nice well made burnisher (http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/cliftonhssscraperburnisher.aspx) and am glad I did.

The shavings off the scraper should be more like plane shavings and not dust. They are more on the order of a soda straw in shape than a long ribbon like a shaving out of a hand plane would be.

[Allen Jordan]

I use a 10" bastard cut mill file on the edge to remove the old burr and make it flat. I then use a 1k grit water stone or diamond stone to polish the edge, then to polish the sides until all traces of the old burr are gone. Then using the burnisher I raise a burr by rubbing along the flat/side at a slight angle, then I turn the burr by rubbing along the edge at a slight angle. I can just barely feel the burr with my fingers when finished.

[Lee Schierer]

Looks like your scrapers are Crown brand.
You didn't say.


The scrapers are Clifton Sheffield, made in England according to the etching on them.

[Winton Applegate]

Love my Clifton Burnisher !

[Paul Sidener]

There are a lot of videos on youtube, they all say pretty much the same thing. This one is from Highland Woodworking. He answers most of your questions.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zl5IsUGaUfs

[Jim Matthews]

I use Brian Boggs' technique, as shown to me by Mike Pekovich.
The wooden block in the video is the key element, making it repeatable.

Two things are important to realize - the filing step can't be skipped.
If the exposed edge is already "work hardened" turning a burr will be difficult.

Not all wood species can be managed with a card scraper.

I get great results in Oak, and other harder woods -
not so great in the local Cherry and Walnut.


http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xwvodz_how-to-sharpen-a-card-scraper_lifestyle

[Winton Applegate]

Not all wood species can be managed with a card scraper.

I second that.
I originally was atracted to a card scraper as a quick way to remove the ink stamps from 2 x 4s for various projects and found the scrapers less that useful in that case.

[Darrell LaRue]

I have a block of wood with a bunch of saw kerfs in it for holding my scrapers. Depending on what I am doing, there are two ways I sharpen my scrapers. For fine work, like leveling a finish or scraping veneer & inlay I will use my Sandvik (now Bacho) scraper, which is prepared by filing, stoning and burnishing. I am generally content to produce dust with this scraper, because I am not hogging off a lot of wood.

For less finicky work, like fairing curves or taking off saw marks, the kind of thing where you want shavings instead of dust I use a file to prepare the scraper. Just drawfile the edge and go. When it gets dull, file it again. Takes one or two strokes with the file to get the edge back. No need to mess about with all the grits and such.

The other thing to consider is a curved scraper. Just file a gentle curve on the edge of your scraper, so the middle is a bit higher than the ends. Dunno what radius that is, just put some curve in it. Now try it. Its like the difference between a smoother and a heavily cambered jack. You can really hog off the wood.

And lets talk about grips too. Your thumbs will fall off if you use your scraper with a single grip. Learn to push and pull your scraper. Learn to use your fingers and thumbs to work the tool with a variety of grips. I did a LOT of scraping a long time ago on my son's sleighbed. Those coopered beech panels required a huge amount of scraping to produce a fair curve. Hours on end.

And for hot scrapers than burn your thumbs, just slap a fridge magnet on the scraper to insulate you from the heat.

Darrell

[Michael Ray Smith]

The "best" way to sharpen a scraper is whatever works for you. Read all the advice and keep trying until you get the hang of it, but if something doesn't work for you, try something else no matter who told you what you were doing was the "right" way to do it. That said, two things that helped me: 1. Only one swipe with the burnisher. Take another only if you can't feel the burr. 2. Prepare the edge and faces with the same care you'd use for a chisel or plane blade. Polish the surfaces just as carefully. I go all the way down to leather honing.

[Winton Applegate]

leveling a finish

I almost forgot to put this up (used the photo in another thread today).
I can see some color in some of the shavings in my photo, it has been a long time now but I think that was from testing the blade on wood before going at the finish. In any case I recall clearly that it was no problem to take off problems in the finish and not cut through it. At the time I hadn't heard of any one planing a finish but . . . you know me . . . I enjoy exploring the limits of a tool.

Since the top was exceptionally flat I was able to plane on the finish rather than cut bellow it like a bent scraper seems to do. Later I got a chisel plane and it is even better at this .

I am not saying this is better than a scraper but it may be interesting for people to look at.

[Pat Barry]

I almost forgot to put this up (used the photo in another thread today).
I can see some color in some of the shavings in my photo, it has been a long time now but I think that was from testing the blade on wood before going at the finish. In any case I recall clearly that it was no problem to take off problems in the finish and not cut through it. At the time I hadn't heard of any one planing a finish but . . . you know me . . . I enjoy exploring the limits of a tool.

Since the top was exceptionally flat I was able to plane on the finish rather than cut bellow it like a bent scraper seems to do. Later I got a chisel plane and it is even better at this .

I am not saying this is better than a scraper but it may be interesting for people to look at.
B as in B, S as in S. I'd have to see a video to believe that. Happy new year.

[lowell holmes]

http://www.finewoodworking.com/tool-guide/video/how-to-sharpen-a-card-scraper.aspx

Check the link above. It is one of the best I've seen. I use it exactly as presented.

[Winton Applegate]

B as in B, S as in S. I'd have to see a video to believe that. Happy new year.

No
It's true
I did almost forget to put this up. :):D

Happy New year !

PS: you can try it for your self: sharpen with the jig, tiny bit of camber on the finish blade, barely advance the blade until it starts to take a whisper off the test block (or if you are bold just go straight to the bumps in the finish and start turning the blade in until it starts knocking 'em dead).

I was experimenting with a "Never do that" technique and had some unrelated problem I needed to correct.
I put down a Maloof and started after a while putting it on heavy enough to build. You know . . . merely wiping less and less of it off each application.
Never do that (they say).
Well that was all well and good. ( used the Maloof for the LOOK AND COLOR that I was after. The depth and color on the bubbinga was amazing and I could achieve that depth and color no other way. I had spent the winter experimenting with every finish I could get my hands on alone and mixed. Specifically on bubbinga you understand. There is a secret sauce under the Maloof but I won't bore everyone with that. The following ought to be enough to do that.

It looked great and I was about done. There were some areas that were a little over thick but basically success was achieved.
It was still a fairly semi gloss finish and of course it was going to take a long time to dry fully but usable with care. More and more I was liking the gloss look, on this particular batch of bubbinga, I have a side table that was exactly what I wanted but this batch of bubbinga wasn't doing it for me the same way.
Then I wiped on some french polish just to fool around because I had been experimenting with it but alone with linseed oil under it on the bubbing the look sucked.
But I got this gloss that was addicting. You who have used french polish know what I am talking about . . . just touching the dried French polish is an experience and there is something about the look that is unsurpassed in my view.
I started to notice something unexpected. I had one board that was so different I ended up putting the thing down the middle as a built in runner. Still kind of a "I don't know if I like that or not . . . I hope I get used to it" kind of thing.
anyway . . . I was using ruby french polish and it started to glaze that middle plank and tone down it's lighter areas and tie together all the planks. It did another thing . . . it toned down the sickly orange reds in the general bubinga and brought out the ruby red little veins. I was and am obsessed with those in bubbinga. Ever see those ? If you look at the wood with a little hand held microscope you can see ruby colored crystal like inclusions in the fibers and beautiful deep green ones. Christmas wood !

Well things were going well and I was day after day fuming up the house with alcohol smells . . .
. . . ha, ha, goodness knows what the neighbors thought in the other half of the duplex . . . grain alcohol fumes pouring out the open windows.

It was my first real experience with french polishing and I was going at it like the newb that I was. Easy to take it all off right ? Not like taking off the Maloof and the Maloof doesn't care if I am putting this semi porous stuff over it . . . it is still going to cure.

Long story short I learned NOT to use old T-shirt and cotton hanky for the cover on the wad. I sprang a leak a couple of times and wound up with thread or string shaped clear ridges in the hardened shellac. Trying to blend it with just alcohol didn't work, sanding as you know is my last resort but that didn't work well, scraping was not the best . . .

the plane fixed it with ease.

I intentionally did not fill the grain on this table. I found it interesting that :
1. The grain was filled and went away on it's own from all of my farting around.
2. the grain came back over the years, consistently across the surface, once the finish fully cured and tightened up.

In conclusion I would have to say don't hold your breath for the vid :
I don't work with Bubbinga any more . . . just for my saw horses (that is another story) and for the dining table.
Endangered etc.
Mostly I like the Maloof finish just as recommended as an in the wood finish. Absolutely no reason to plane it and yes the wood comes off if I would try.
:cool: I learned to use real linen wad covers ( as in rubbers) . . .
wait
moderator ! ! !
let me start over

. . . if I were to French polish again I would put linen cloth over the wad of wool in the bundle to apply the shellac and oil with.
wheeeuhuu . . . that was close

So I probably won't have any major blow outs in my rubbers . . .
christ this is hard to say in print . . .
I am just going to have to make a video some day just to finish this post . . .

Happy New year !

[Allen Jordan]

Lowell, that video is an interesting technique. I pretty much use the same method, but freehand. I might have to make a wood block like the video shows. One step they did that I don't understand is honing the sides before filing the edge... they just go right back to honing the sides after filing, so why the initial step?

[lowell holmes]

IIRC, the sides are honed to remove any old burr left on the scraper. The wooden block not only assists in making the edge of the scraper absolutely square and straight, it sets the angle for the new burr. It produces an incredible amount of shavings.

[Jim Matthews]

Mike Pekovich explained this to me.
The idea is to take off the existing burr,
and make sure the edges are all at 90 degrees.

In practice - if I can no longer turn a burr,
I go straight to filing.

I think what's glossed over in this demo
is that the squared block acts as a reference
for your fingertips, holding the file.

[glenn bradley]

That said I am sure we will all have fun re arguing the whole thing all over again.

This is a great statement because like cutting dovetails or M&T, there are several totally valid ways to sharpen (and use) your scrapers. To stone or not to stone? A tiny bit of oil before burnishing or drown the edge like William Ng? Use an old Chevy valve stem or a commercial burnishing rod? I'll just add what I do to the other responses. If you try a few techniques I am sure you will find the one that suits you.

I have a file set into a block of hardwood that acts a a guide so I can mill file the edges perpendicular without having to be too talented.
I then stone the edges on DMT diamond plates because that is what I happen to have.
- I stone them flat and then on edge.
I use a Lee Valley triangular burnishing tool after getting galling with some others that were not quite as hard.
- It also excels on my goose-neck and convex/concave scrapers but, whatever works for you works fine.
I pull the edge parallel with the flat surface and then roll it back at 5-10-15 degrees depending on how aggressive I want the edge to be.
- I will put 5 degrees on one long side, 15 degrees on the other and 10 degrees on the ends of rectangle scrapers.
- I usually put about a 10 degree on curved scrapers as this works better for me and my technique (or lack thereof) on those type of surfaces.

[Doug Ladendorf]

I've seen the videos but there are some great tidbits in this thread. Thanks for sharing folks.

[Dave Cullen]

I have a block of wood with a bunch of saw kerfs in it for holding my scrapers. Depending on what I am doing, there are two ways I sharpen my scrapers. For fine work, like leveling a finish or scraping veneer & inlay I will use my Sandvik (now Bacho) scraper, which is prepared by filing, stoning and burnishing. I am generally content to produce dust with this scraper, because I am not hogging off a lot of wood.


There is a story about master craftsman Tage Frid using a scraper to level a lacquer finish on one of his coffee table designs that always brings a smile to my face. Nobody could figure out how he got the finish so perfectly flat. I love my scrapers, but I'll never have the skills to do that.