Glue for Heart Pine ?

[Perry Holbrook]

I'm making a light fixture to go beside the front door at the house. Mission style, small parts, grove and tennon, stained glass panels. I'm using some 5/4 kiln dried heart pine, that is mostly resin, or so it seems. Wondering what glue may be the best. I'm leaning toward a good epoxy.

Also, the fixture is under the overhang so is somewhat protected but it needs some finish that will stick to the pine and hold up outside. Any ideas.

Perry

[Lee Schierer]

This is an application where the polyurethane glue will work as it is water proof. Just don't dampen the wood when you apply it and it will bond better and not foam as much. Wipe down the areas to be glued with turpentine or lacquer thinner to remove the surface resin before gluing. As far as finish goes, you'll want to use a spar type varnish with UV inhibitors. Even that won't last more than a few years outside without refinishing.

If you can get it, I would recommend cypress over heart pine as it will likely last longer.

[Tom M King]

I use that stuff all the time. If the wood is really fat, I'd design it not to depend on glue. I'd use stainless steel 23 ga. pins, if you have to have fasteners somewhere. If it's really fat Heart Pine, it will still be there when the rest of the house has rotted down. Make sure it has plenty of clearance from heat from a light bulb. They don't call it "lighter wood" for nothing.

[scott vroom]

Make sure it has plenty of clearance from heat from a light bulb. They don't call it "lighter wood" for nothing.

Oh man, I wouldn't want to guess what "enough clearance" is. If for any reason the electrical shorts out you're putting your house at risk. I hope your homeowner's is current.:eek:

[Perry Holbrook]

Thanks Tom, hadn't thought of that. This stuff is so "fat" it would be unsafe in this application. I'll choose something else.

Perry

[Pat Barry]

What in god's name do you mean by fat? I seriously doubt that this will be any problem outdoors with plenty of air circulation. Use oak and the same design and you will have the same problem / concern.

[Tom M King]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatwood

All the heartwood of the really old Long Leaf Pine trees is resinous. That's the wood commonly referred to as "Heart Pine". The really old stuff in the center, and especially towards the bottom of the butt log, has so much resin in it that it's completely saturated. That's the stuff we call "fat". When a pine forest burns, even after the fire is put out by rain, or firefighters, "lighter stumps" will still burn for days. Small pieces of the fat wood is highly treasured as a fire starter.

[Kevin Womer]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatwood

All the heartwood of the really old Long Leaf Pine trees is resinous. That's the wood commonly referred to as "Heart Pine". The really old stuff in the center, and especially towards the bottom of the butt log, has so much resin in it that it's completely saturated. That's the stuff we call "fat". When a pine forest burns, even after the fire is put out by rain, or firefighters, "lighter stumps" will still burn for days. Small pieces of the fat wood is highly treasured as a fire starter.

I didn't know that, I thought you meant its thickness. You learn something everyday.

[Art Mann]

What in god's name do you mean by fat? I seriously doubt that this will be any problem outdoors with plenty of air circulation. Use oak and the same design and you will have the same problem / concern.

Oak will not do the same. If you want to understand what fat pine is, then get yourself some very dry pine wood and soak it in a jar of turpentine for a few months. Dry off the excess and then set the wood on fire. Fat pine will burn like the turpentine soaked wood but will be more sticky. Turpentine was once a popular paint thinner and it is manufactured from the same sticky pine tree sap that fat pine is saturated with. It even smells the same.

I am currently doing some rustic CNC routed signs with heart pine lumber salvaged from a 19th century one room school house. I think it would be very difficult to find any glue or adhesive that will stick to this material if it is planed. However it did manage to survive for something like 130 years unpainted out in the weather without any sign of rot.

[Paul Incognito]

I did a lot of millwork for a customer using salvaged heart pine beams. I was able to glue everything up using plain old Titebond with no special prep.
I've also never heard the term "fat" in relation to wood. Learn something new every day.
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Here's another pic I found. The "owls" are around 1/4" thick, and are translucent. I have a sheet of the end grain pieces glued up that I've been meaning to make a lamp out of.
302626

[Mike Null]

http://www.llbean.com/llb/shop/38687?page=fatwood-box

[Perry Holbrook]

This stuff is so fat that you can almost see thru it on the corners. I wanted to use it because of the color and grain pattern, it's not exactly bright copper, closer to orange, but it matches the mission style colors. My original concern was the glue since the joint will have such a small surface area and thin that mechanical fasteners have a good chance of splitting.

I'll probably use cherry and alter the color a little.

Perry

[Pat Barry]

Oak will not do the same. If you want to understand what fat pine is, then get yourself some very dry pine wood and soak it in a jar of turpentine for a few months. Dry off the excess and then set the wood on fire. Fat pine will burn like the turpentine soaked wood but will be more sticky. Turpentine was once a popular paint thinner and it is manufactured from the same sticky pine tree sap that fat pine is saturated with. It even smells the same.

I am currently doing some rustic CNC routed signs with heart pine lumber salvaged from a 19th century one room school house. I think it would be very difficult to find any glue or adhesive that will stick to this material if it is planed. However it did manage to survive for something like 130 years unpainted out in the weather without any sign of rot.

Since this topic came up yesterday I have been looking for some published data that would support the idea that the 'fat pine' or heart pine is more prone to spontaneously combust than any other species. I haven't found it. I certainly have found scores of published work that demonstrate that pine, and other softwood in general, burns faster, once actuality ignited. I have seen many papers describing the flammability of a pine forest (due to dried out needles) but nothing that shows that a lightbulb in equal proximity to pine and oak will perform any differently. I will continue to look but, not finding it just yet. I should note that I have found other comments about the flammmability of 'fat / resinous pine' so I know that its not a new concept but I sure would like to see some test data from somewhere. It would seem to be a very simple test.

[Peter Quinn]

I will continue to look but, not finding it just yet. I should note that I have found other comments about the flammmability of 'fat / resinous pine' so I know that its not a new concept but I sure would like to see some test data from somewhere. It would seem to be a very simple test.


Got a fireplace? Do your own test. White oak is most certainly harder to ignite than pine, and SYP has that additional resin push that keeps on giving.

To the op, if this is a light and heat is a concern, why not wire in LED? Don't think you will get enough heat from those to matter. I remember a story about a mid west city retrofitting all their street lights to LED...going green.....street lights quickly froze over and became non functional during every winter storm. Apparently the good old incandescent or halogen bulbs they and been running had the added benefit of keeping the lights defrosted! So they had to add heaters. So much for going green. After the third time my wife left the fridge door open just a crack and the old school incandescents ruined everything in it, I went LED, no more problems. We have a older french door fridge, and if it stays open just a crack (which they are prone to do) the compressor can keep up but not overcome the heat of the bulb being on constantly. The bulb also melted the plastic surround.....it was not designed to be on for 8 hours at a time! All the new ones have door alarms and LED lighting.

As to finish, I have some Cypress beams I turned into brackets to hold up a small roof over a door, I used Messmers UV plus penetrating oil. Seems to do fine. I reapply every year or two, takes about 10 minutes total, I lightly buff with synthetic steel wool and re oil. Spar varnish will go longer between applications, but the prep required for reapplication is far greater...thorough sanding, near complete removal if it fails.

[Pat Barry]

To the op, if this is a light and heat is a concern, why not wire in LED?
Now that is the best plan all around.