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View Full Version : Two simple, silly hand plane questions....



Chris Hachet
12-23-2014, 10:24 AM
So I have decided to simplify and upgrade my hand plane collection. I am going to try to own under twenty hand planes, including specialty planes.

In my collection I have a nice WW2 era Stanley that I think will find a home with a friend who is just starting wood working. Thinking seriously of replacing it with a 604 bedrock and dumping a LV PM-V11 or Hock blade in it.

How much is fair market value for a good user grade 604?

Secondly, I have several planes that I do not sue very much but have decided to get rid of. Some of them have sentimental value though...but I would rather see them used than sit on my shelf or in my attic. has anyone here gotten rid of any tools that have been in your collection for a long time and not regretted it?

Dave Parkis
12-23-2014, 10:54 AM
A good Bedrock 604 will run anywhere from $100-$150 in my experience. Your best bet on value is to do an advanced search on ebay and check completed listings for a Bedrock 604. There are some people that will try and get $300 because its an antique, but just because someone is asking a lot doesn't make the item worth that much.

Sean Hughto
12-23-2014, 10:56 AM
Just my opinion, but this is a bit silly to my mind. What do you think the difference in performance is going to be between a your Stanley and the Bedrock version? If you want to go for some marginal improvement or at least slightly more pleasant to use and look at - buy a LN 4. The 604 is going to be at least half way to a LN price wise in any event.

Harold Burrell
12-23-2014, 10:59 AM
Just my opinion, but this is a bit silly to my mind. What do you think the difference in performance is going to be between a your Stanley and the Bedrock version? If you want to go for some marginal improvement or at least slightly more pleasant to use and look at - buy a LN 4. The 604 is going to be at least half way to a LN price wise in any event.

Yeah. I would tend to agree. I mean, unless you can get a really good deal on a bedrock...like I did...$16 for a 604 at an antique shop. :cool:

Chris Hachet
12-23-2014, 11:01 AM
Yeah. I would tend to agree. I mean, unless you can get a really good deal on a bedrock...like I did...$16 for a 604 at an antique shop. :cool:

LN #4 is in the mix as well....just trying to think things through. Thanks for the responses!

Sean Hughto
12-23-2014, 11:11 AM
I think Patrick has it about right, not that I don't like Bedrocks: http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan15.htm

The name alone is cool - Yabba Dabba DOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooo

Mike Henderson
12-23-2014, 11:45 AM
I haven't bought a Bedrock plane in a while, but the 604's used to be modestly priced, along with the 605's. There were a lot of those two types sold. And you should know your Bedrocks before buying on eBay. Some have problems that are not disclosed, such as planes with damage or parts from different eras.

But I agree with the other posters, a Stanley Bailey will work fine with a modern iron (such as the LV PM-V11), and for what you pay for a Bedrock and a new iron, you're well along towards a LN. And LN will stand behind their planes for life.

Mike

Jim Koepke
12-23-2014, 12:47 PM
So I have decided to simplify and upgrade my hand plane collection. I am going to try to own under twenty hand planes, including specialty planes.
...
Some of them have sentimental value though...but I would rather see them used than sit on my shelf or in my attic. has anyone here gotten rid of any tools that have been in your collection for a long time and not regretted it?

It would take some special motivation for me to reduce the plane count in my shop to less than 20 planes. There are likely that many specialty planes alone.

What upgrade? One of my thoughts while the camera was out in the shop was to start a thread on "If Shavings Could Talk" somewhat inspired by a post asking about reading the shavings.

302566

These two #4s are both type 6, circa 1888-1892. Both blades were sharpened and the planes were set up for use. The shavings measure in the 0.0006 to 0.0008" range. I do not think either of these planes would be traded for a Bedrock or a new LN or LV plane. A few Bedrocks have come my way and been sold.

My thought on what those shavings would say, "if you don't dial in a bit thicker shaving your going to be here all day."

A few tools that had some sentimental value were given to my brother for his accumulation of family heirlooms. Some regrets, but I do know where they are.

I have almost always regretted selling or handing off a useful tool I've used much. Most of the time if a tool is bought to resell it sits unused to avoid building any attachment toward it.

As an example there is a #4 & #5 plane that have been around my shop for a while. Neither of them is in the best of shape. They are both fine users. Their condition means they will likely be sold at a low price with full disclosure of their short comings. Even though they are the extra unneeded planes in the shop, they will likely be missed if ever they do leave. Perhaps if they didn't get used as often as they do there wouldn't be an emotional attachment.

Of course, that is just me and your milage is sure to vary.

jtk

Jim Matthews
12-23-2014, 5:14 PM
Using tools connects us to our forebears in ways that going to museum cannot.

I recommend keeping the ones your family and friends left to you as a legacy,
the rest deserve a chance to play in the major leagues, if you're not
going to put them in the starting lineup.

You're on the right track, not that there won't be a few pangs to manage, mind you.

Don Jarvie
12-23-2014, 11:17 PM
Keep them all. Clean them, flatten the soles. sharpen the blades and see how they work. If you have two #4s for example you can set one up for heaver cuts and one for lighter ones. This way you don't have to fiddle every time you use one.

You can always turn a #5 into a scrub plane.

Mike Holbrook
12-24-2014, 12:27 AM
So I don't have to worry at all now that I have 12-15, cool. In fact I'm kinda slack!

I have three categories, Stanleys, Veritas BU and Wooden. Each has their own advantages and issues. Oh yea there are a few specialty planes, ohh and a couple little Japanese experimentals, hmm ok 20 sounds good.

paul cottingham
12-24-2014, 1:27 AM
I am going to leave this thread open for my wife to discover. See, dear, I only have a moderate plane problem! Hell, 12 or so planes (moulders and hollows and rounds don't count, right? Right?) is barely approaching a problem. Hell it's barely looking in its back yard!
I'm. Not. Being. Defensive.
seriously.

Chris Hachet
12-24-2014, 7:54 AM
Thanks guys for helping me think things through. Spent a very pleasurable evening last evening sharpening everything up in the shop and doing some maintenance. Came to the stupid realization that I can fettle a plane if I am too tired to do precision woodworking...

Upon reflection my #4 is safe.....I think of my grandfather who fought in WWII every time I use it. Going to get a #3 from Lie Nielson, upgrade some blades, and keep on making shavings. Getting rid of a lot of stuff I do not really use, mostly wooden planes from the 19th century and Stanley combination planes.

Oh, and 20 planes is 20 regular planes, specialty planes do not count.

Judson Green
12-24-2014, 11:23 AM
Agree with the others about a regular Bailey style working just fine. I have a bedrock (got it for cheep from a former employer) and don't use it that often. They are cool and easy to adjust its frog if your into that sort of thing, but a little heavier. And nothing wrong with the vintage iron either.

I'd most likely keep tools that's have sentimental value, unless selling them/giving them to someone at least slightly connected to that sentiment. But also understand keeping a lean workshop, it can get out of hand quick.

Curt Putnam
12-25-2014, 3:48 AM
I guess I have 11 bench planes and don't see a need for more - at the moment. 2 # 3, 4, 5, 6 + 1 4 1/2, 1 7 and 1 8. I can joint and flatten panels, I'm happy. According to the Schwarz, I need to simplify, according to you guys, I have. :D

Jim Koepke
12-25-2014, 1:38 PM
According to the Schwarz, I need to simplify, according to you guys, I have.

People simplify in different ways with different results. For me it is simpler to have a few #4s. Sometimes they are set up different for different tasks so it is simpler to change planes than to change settings. Sometimes they are set the same. Then it is simpler to change planes instead of stopping to sharpen a blade.

The Schwarz does so good things. He also does a few blunders now and then. There is no reason why my shop should be based on his, often changing, philosophy of tool usage and ownership.

jtk

ken hatch
12-25-2014, 2:58 PM
People simplify in different ways with different results. For me it is simpler to have a few #4s. Sometimes they are set up different for different tasks so it is simpler to change planes than to change settings. Sometimes they are set the same. Then it is simpler to change planes instead of stopping to sharpen a blade.

The Schwarz does so good things. He also does a few blunders now and then. There is no reason why my shop should be based on his, often changing, philosophy of tool usage and ownership.

jtk

Couldn't agree more. You have to remember, he tries things, writes about it, and then moves on. While I admire what he has done to popularize use of hand tools there are times his work does a disservice just because of the large numbers of followers without the experience to separate the good from what ever.

BTW, I've followed this thread and even went out to the shop to see how many planes I have and while I may have a few extras I wouldn't want to be shed of any. They are all in working order, sharp, and ready to use if needed. While the core of ten bench planes that reside on the tool rack behind the main work bench see the most use the other 30 bench planes stored in other areas are also used and maintained. All told, including bench planes, there are over a hundred working planes in my shop and while I may not use all of them every week or so they are all used when needed. There is a line in a country song that goes something like "Life is better with you", I feel the same way about my tools.

There is one big "Yes But", I live in the desert, tool maintenance is simple....When finished, rub 'em down with an oily rag and put 'em away. Even if it is a month or two between uses the iron will be clean when you come back to it. If I lived and worked in a rust prone area I would bet I could learn to live with fewer tools.

As always, YMMV.

ken

Paul Sidener
12-25-2014, 3:55 PM
So I have decided to simplify and upgrade my hand plane collection. I am going to try to own under twenty hand planes, including specialty planes.

How much is fair market value for a good user grade 604?

has anyone here gotten rid of any tools that have been in your collection for a long time and not regretted it?

There is nothing wrong with trying to upgrade your tools. It doesn't matter how many planes you have. I have some that I don't use very much, but they are there when I need them.

A Bedrock 604 can vary in price quite a bit. I bought a 604C type 5, in an antique store this past summer for $75. It was in decent shape and I thought it was a bargain. I thought it should have sold for more. The main problem I see in old planes is the blades. They are thin by todays standards. A Hock blade and cap iron will run you another $70. I also needed to spend some time cleaning and restoring the plane. Your time is worth something, how much is up to you. With the money out of my pocket, I am about half the cost of a new Lie Nielsen iron #4. I have a few Lie Nielsen planes, The Bedrock with a Hock blade preforms as good as a new Lie Nielsen. They are basically the same plane. If you can find a deal on a Bedrock, they are worth the effort. That being said, I wouldn't buy one off of ebay. The prices there are inflated. I like walking in antique stores, you never know what you will find.

As for your last question. Over the years I have sold tools, knives, and guns, and always regretted it.

Jim Koepke
12-25-2014, 4:37 PM
I like walking in antique stores, you never know what you will find.

This is so true. Many antique stores are set up in an "antique mall" fashion. One or two people work behind the counter but all the items are being sold by different individuals. There may not be any price bargaining but some of the vendors might set prices low when they are cleaning out their garage.

A lot of my tools have come from rust hunting in antique shops.

jtk

steven c newman
12-25-2014, 8:08 PM
Happen to have a few smoothers by Millers Falls. They were good enough that I soon sold the Stanley #4s I had.

HAD a #606 ($20) that I merely cleaned up and then sold.

Have a Union made DE6c with a Berg iron, liked it better.

Have no After Market irons on any of the 25 planes. Finding out that the old Millers Falls irons were very good.

These are most of the iron bodies
302715
There is a Wards #3 that was made by Stanley back in WWII.

Chris Hachet
12-26-2014, 8:10 PM
Nice looking plane collection!