Difference in features on big lathes worth it or not? 3520B vs Robust

[David Cramer]

Hello

I am curious as to the member's opinions on the difference between a couple of top lathes.

The Powermatic 3520B can be had for around $3400 on sale, maybe a tad less, and the lowest price on the most inexpensive Robust is $5950, not double, but darn close.

For the price, are there that many features on American Robust Sweet 16 to justify $2500+ more cash? The electrical warranty on the American made Robust is one year (7 on mechanicals). Has anyone who owns one had any issues? Are the features that much better than a 3520B?

A big lathe is a large future purchase for me and am hoping for some input as I've been saving for quite some time and still am today. I'm not rich, but I'm also don't smoke or drink and would like to put my hard earned dollars towards something that I enjoy as I approach 50:eek: in a few years.

Thanks,


David

[Dale Gillaspy]

I have the 3520 and love it, but if I had it to do all over again, I would go with the Robust. Several reasons....First, I'm a big American Made guy, and a small business guy. That alone does not justify the added expense, granted, but it is a start for me. Then there is quality. I'll let others chime in, but I have turned on them both, and there really is no comparison. Finally, features. The Robust comes with several features standard that you would have to rig on a PM like the remote starter switch. There are also many optional features like the swing away tailstock that seem frivolous, but are actually a huge factor. They are closed for the holidays, but I would give Robust a call. Just talk to them about their lathes. I think you'll be impressed.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Value or worth is subjective.

What's important to one may be unimportant to another.

If you are considering either machine, both are a huge investment. Take time to find a way to turn on both and make your decision.

[Thom Sturgill]

I will start by saying I don't own either, but am in the same boat (though a bit older). I have turned on the PM and compared to my Jet 1642 it is much smoother. What is a lathe? A motor, spindle with bearings and the ways. Also bulk. Form what I've heard, the machining of the spindle and quality of the bearings in the Robust is as much superior to the PM as the PM is to the Jet. The ways are stainless and in Florida where everthing rusts as you look at it, that could be a big deal to me. I'm looking at the Liberty - with legs, swing-away, and 220 motor it is $6105 plus shipping. Smaller than the PM, closer to the Jet in size, but then I do not turn large. I hope to make my purchase sometime next year.

[Tony Pridmore]

I have a 3520B and really like the lathe. There are a few things I would look for if upgrading:
- Threaded spindle on the outboard side (vacuum pump attachment)
- Hardened spindle
- Hands-free spindle lock
- Remote controls (start & speed control)
- Lower speed on the bottom end (50 RPM min on the 3520 isn't low enough for sanding)

I don't know whether the Sweet 16 offers these features.

Reputation of Robust in terms of quality and service is very good. Made in the U.S.A. would factor in heavily if I were making such a decision. Others who have owned both Robust and modern Powermatics will be able to give you more a more detailed comparison. Dale's suggestion of calling Brent is solid advice.

Good luck with your decision. Either direction will yield a capable lathe that will give you many years of service.

[Robert Henrickson]

I've never turned on any Robust lathe, so I cannot comment on them. I have used 3520s many times, very happily.

One feature I would consider essential if I were to buy a new lathe would be a sliding headstock; the Jet 1642 which I have used for years has this as well. It provides a huge measure of flexibility, such as being able to stand at the end of the lathe when hollowing bowls or closed vessel forms instead of leaning over the ways.

Therefore I don't understand the following comment --

I have a 3520B and really like the lathe. There are a few things I would look for if upgrading:
- Threaded spindle on the outboard side

Since the 3520 headstock slides, there is no need (that I can see) for an outboard side threaded spindle. Just move the headstock to the end. In addition, the 3520 has a bed extension which can be mounted below the level of the lathe ways to provide a 30"+ (36"?) swing for outboard turning with very solid support for the tool rest when the headstock is moved toward the end.

[terry mccammon]

I have turned on the 3520 and own a Robust. Frankly I came into some unexpected funds and decided to go for it. At some point, fit and finish and simply perfect build count for something and of course cost something. Factor in that Brent English is perhaps the nicest guy and simply the easiest person to work with that I ever met and that is something as well. Then factor in the American made part and the use of standard, easily available parts and you are there.

I decided that having the funds I would make an investment that I would have for the rest of my life, that I could not wear out and that amortized over what I hope will be many more years would not be all that much per year. One thing is for sure, if you go for the Robust, go for the swing away tailstock and strongly consider the 3 HP drive. Simply no limit.

[Reed Gray]

I had a 3520A for about 8 years, then bought an American Beauty. It is kind of hard to compare it to the Sweet 16 or Liberty (I also have it) because of size differences. If you compare the PM 4224 to the Beauty, then you have two very similar machines, and a similar cost. The Robust lathes have adjustable legs, so if you need it higher or lower, you can easily adjust the height by adjusting the legs. I do prefer the sliding headstocks as well, just more efficient for turning bowls as you can stand up straight for all of your bowl turning, and keep your arms in at your side (see my bowl turning ergonomics You Tube clip). The spindle lock on the Beauty is much better than the button on the PM. I can't remember if they changed the push button on the PM or not, but that was not a good set up. You can not start your Robust if the spindle lock is engaged. I have the remote switch on my Beauty on the headstock, same place it was on the PM. If I put it down on the lathe body, I have to bend over to reach it. I wanted the 3 hp motor as a step up from the PM. I like the speed range on my Beauty better. I have an older one with 3 pulleys, which I prefer. The 3520B goes from 50 to 1000 or 1200, I think, on the low range, and up to 3,000 or higher, again, not sure. My Beauty came with some what the same set up. I called Brent to get it programmed so it would go down to almost 0 for sanding out my warped bowls. The PM used to do this, but they changed it to turn off at 50. I can't keep abrasives on warped bowls at anything over about 20 to 25 rpm. The only difference I can tell between the stainless steel and the cast iron lathes is that they make different noises when you turn. My PM had a nice black patina to the ways when I sold it, but no pitting. If you ever do have a problem with your Robust, or a question, you can talk to the guy who makes them, not some tech who has to read from a manual. The made in America is a major selling point for me. Coming from a small factory, if you know what you are looking for, there are a lot of things that show pride in the manufacturing of this lathe. Even if you don't know what you are looking for, you can tell that there is some thing about the lathe that stands out. The only other lathe that I know of that has similar features is the Oneway, made in Canada. It doesn't have a sliding headstock, so I bought it. The Liberty has a 2 hp motor, and I was really surprised at how much power it has. It is only one speed, and if I turned a lot of spindles, I might want a higher speed range as it doesn't go all the way to 3000. I would bet that Brent could help me reprogram the converter to take care of that.

robo hippy

[Jeffrey J Smith]

I second Jerry's thoughts - I've turned on both and own the Robust AB - beyond the fact that they both spin wood, there's simply no comparison. The Robust lathes are mechanically and ergonomically superior. Do yourself a favor - this is a major commitment to funds - turn on both. Get a feel for the differences. Brent found a couple of local guys that were amenable to a potential customer spending a little time on their babies for me.
The sweet sixteen will turn up to 32" over the ways with the bed section removed, and allows for outboard turning without additional equipment by reconfiguring the section and using the standard banjo. It really is a sweet lathe with no serious competitors for the feature set.
When I made my decision, I considered it the last lathe I'd be buying and got everything (almost) I thought I'd need - the tilt away for the tailstock in use actually justifies the cost for me. lifting the 60 pound tailstock on and off the lathe would be a potential problem otherwise. With it, it's a one finger (literally) operation to get it out of the way. It was a big decision at the time, but after two years of turning on it, and a few forays on friend's lathes (Powermatic 4224 and Oneway's) I'm really glad I pulled the trigger.
As a smsall business owner, buying American is important to me, too. Brent and Deb have been amazing to deal with. Hard to put a price on that.
In all, it was easier to find a way to justify the extra cost than it was to contemplate kicking myself for the rest of my turning years for not getting what I knew was a superior product. And that's from a guy who has a difficult time justifying the extra cost of a couple of accessories on a new car when the additional cost turns out to be pennies in the long run and only adds to the resale value of the car.

[David Heathcote]

Reed's right, I think, that comparing the 3520 to an American Beauty is not apples and apples.
Comparing the American Beauty to the bigger Oneways and the 4220 would be fair enough though.
I turned on a big Oneway for a week a few years ago and it's a good lathe, no question about that, but I wouldn't trade my AB for one. I've turned only for a day on a 3520, and that's a nice machine too, again no question about it, but it's in a different size and power class.
Reed pretty much covered the major points. American made, tough as nails, easy height adjustment to suit your style and size, a much better designed and easy to use spindle lock, a power cutout switch so you don't smoke the belts by powering up with the spindle locked, and absolutely the best customer service on the whole planet.
Stainless ways are standard too, not an expensive option like on the Oneway and not available on Powermatics at all. Like many people I turn a lot of green wood, and not having to worry about rust is just real nice.

In 5+ years of turning on the AB there has not been a single moment where I regretted buying it. Not one.

[Dan Hintz]

I'll second everything Reed says. The height adjustability is nice, and the stainless ways of the Robust are wonderful... I don't have to worry about water from wet wood or wet sanding of acrylics.

[Tony Pridmore]

Therefore I don't understand the following comment --


Since the 3520 headstock slides, there is no need (that I can see) for an outboard side threaded spindle. Just move the headstock to the end. In addition, the 3520 has a bed extension which can be mounted below the level of the lathe ways to provide a 30"+ (36"?) swing for outboard turning with very solid support for the tool rest when the headstock is moved toward the end.

The desire for threads on the spindle's outboard side is simply to allow for better attachment of accessories; primarily a vacuum pump connection. Not a big deal, but if I were looking to upgrade...

Edited to add: So how are you supposed to do nested quoting?

[Tony Pridmore]

The 3520B goes from 50 to 1000 or 1200, I think, on the low range, and up to 3,000 or higher, again, not sure. My Beauty came with some what the same set up. I called Brent to get it programmed so it would go down to almost 0 for sanding out my warped bowls. The PM used to do this, but they changed it to turn off at 50. I can't keep abrasives on warped bowls at anything over about 20 to 25 rpm.
Reed makes a good point here. 50 RPM on the 3520 isn't low enough. Adding this to my list above.

[Jon Nuckles]

+1 on the advice to try out both your options prior to buying. You can compare specs and features, but intangibles are also important. I have the 3520B and love it, but have never tried a Robust, so I don't know what I am missing. (Maybe that is a good thing for me, as I don't want to be tempted.) I can say that I briefly owned a Grizzly lathe with very similar specs and features to the 3520B, but find that turning on the Powermatic is worth every penny of the almost doubled price to me. You might feel the same way about the difference between the Powermatic and the Robust. Good luck with your choice.

[Rick Fisher]

I like the idea of domestic machinery. I don't believe that everyone should buy domestic, far from it.. If you can afford the extra for the Robust, I would buy it ..

[Jeffrey J Smith]

David (the OP) asked about the difference between the Sweet 16 and the 3520B - for the most part, we've been discussing the merits of the AB - not a fair comparison lathe to lathe, but the Sweet 16 has it's own feature set in addition to the intangibles that Robust offers. Stainless ways, the ability to remove the bed section for greater swing (32" total over the ways) and easy extension of the ways for longer spindles. On the other hand, you're giving up a sliding headstock and the ability to fit a tilt-away for the tailstock.
I'd have to ask myself if American made, better build quality and the best customer service on the planet is enough...with that said, the difference in price between the Sweet 16 and the AB25 is only $700. I'd go for the American Beauty...again.

[Rick Fisher]

How much is the AB all done ?

[Jeffrey J Smith]

Rick - "all done" is a moveable feast, so to speak. The pricesheet for everything is available online (www.turnrobust.com (http://www.turnrobust.com))

[Michael Mason]

My American Beauty was delivered on Dec.8. I went from a Delta 46-460 to it. I had planned all year to buy a 3520B and decided last moment to go ahead and get the Robust. I have roughed out approx. 50 bowls and cored them all in the last couple of weeks and I don't have anything bad to say about the machine. It is exactly as advertised . I could probably do everything I need to on the 3520b, but I know I can on this machine. There is no upgrade that I know of and it will last the rest of my days( I am 37 ). It probably boils down to how much you will use it and whether or not it generates some cash. Like the others I do not regret the purchase.

[Allan Dozier]

My Sweet Sixteen was delivered a couple months ago. I have never used the 3520 so can't compare directly but I can say that I am very happy with the Robust tool. I have an assortment of brands for my stationary tools, Delta Unisaw and drill press, Powermatic mortiser, jointer, 20" planer, Grizzzly edge sander, Laguna bandsaw, etc. and I can find little things on each that aren't quite perfect and could be better but not with the Robust lathe. It is so well built. It is hard to describe subjective things like how a tool feels but the locking levers for instance operate so smoothly with just the right amount of travel. If you appreciate superb fit and finish you'll love it.

[Frank Drew]

For bowl turning I wouldn't buy a lathe that didn't have either outboard capability or a sliding headstock; I turned a ton on a packed up (to 19") Rockwell 1460 so I know it can be done but having the bed in the way is a total p.i.a., i.m.o.

[David Cramer]

Thank you so much for all of the great responses. I was on the fence between the 2, but now am unfortunately unable to spend the amount that I was allowed:(

Regardless, great advice and great posts. I still hope one day to get an American Beauty or Powermatic 3520B, but for now its no dice.

Now it's down to either the Jet 1642evs 1.5HP (15% off at woodcraft) or the Nova DVR XP lathe 1.75HP ($1999).

Thank you so much,

David

[Jon Nuckles]

Sorry to hear that your project got defunded. If you want the DVR and can afford to wait, I think the price is substantially lower when they go on sale. If you do a search here, you can probably get a sense of the sale prices and maybe the timing of the sales. I have no experience with either of the lathes you are looking at now, so can't help with that. Good luck!

[David Cramer]

Sorry to hear that your project got defunded. If you want the DVR and can afford to wait, I think the price is substantially lower when they go on sale. If you do a search here, you can probably get a sense of the sale prices and maybe the timing of the sales. I have no experience with either of the lathes you are looking at now, so can't help with that. Good luck!


Thanks Jon. The only thing that scares me about the DVR is reading about it being a direct drive motor and if it goes bad it's not just a matter of replacing the motor but the whole headstock...if I heard correctly.

Woodcraft has them for $1999.99 right now and the Jets are 15% off this Saturday and Sunday. This purchase has to last me many years. I'm sure that they are both good lathes, but I'd like to get it right as my middle name seems to be "lemon" more times than not:( Decisions, decisions.

Thanks Jon.

David

[David Cramer]

p.s. I was also told that I'll want that sliding headstock feature on the Jet, which the DVR doesn't have. I assume that one also needs to purchase an outboard tool rest (or make one?) which means more cash:eek:. Again, decisions, decisions.




Thanks Jon. The only thing that scares me about the DVR is reading about it being a direct drive motor and if it goes bad it's not just a matter of replacing the motor but the whole headstock...if I heard correctly.

Woodcraft has them for $1999.99 right now and the Jets are 15% off this Saturday and Sunday. This purchase has to last me many years. I'm sure that they are both good lathes, but I'd like to get it right as my middle name seems to be "lemon" more times than not:( Decisions, decisions.

Thanks Jon.

David

[Steve Schlumpf]

David - the purpose of the sliding headstock is to allow the user to stand facing the work while at the end of the lathe. This eliminates reaching over the ways when hollowing a bowl. While you can buy a separate system to allow you to turn larger items off the end of the lathe - the basic lathe uses the same banjo, etc - just allows you comfort while turning. So, no extra equipment required!

[David Cramer]

David - the purpose of the sliding headstock is to allow the user to stand facing the work while at the end of the lathe. This eliminates reaching over the ways when hollowing a bowl. While you can buy a separate system to allow you to turn larger items off the end of the lathe - the basic lathe uses the same banjo, etc - just allows you comfort while turning. So, no extra equipment required!


Thanks Steve:) So unless they are bigger than the ways, you can still bring it to the end and use your banjo...I got it and thanks for the explanation:) I'm a lefty, forced righty, and would surely benefit from bringing it to the end of the lathe.


David

p.s. One day I'll get that American Beauty, but it will be another decade or so:(

[Dan Hintz]

If you're a lefty, just turn the lathe around and reverse the motor direction.

[David C. Roseman]

Thank you so much for all of the great responses. I was on the fence between the 2, but now am unfortunately unable to spend the amount that I was allowed:(

Regardless, great advice and great posts. I still hope one day to get an American Beauty or Powermatic 3520B, but for now its no dice.

Now it's down to either the Jet 1642evs 1.5HP (15% off at woodcraft) or the Nova DVR XP lathe 1.75HP ($1999).

Thank you so much,

David

David, well, since you're back in the hunt at a significantly lower price point, take a look at Roger Chandler's two threads on the new Grizzly G0766. No one here has had a chance to kick the tires yet, but there seems to be a lot of interest at the introductory price of $1550. :eek:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?225669-G0766-22-X-42-lathe-Ordered!

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?225567-New-model-G0766-Upgrade-possible!

David