Split nuts on old back saw

[John Dougherty]

I was extremely lucky and picked up a J D Darlington backsaw from an estate sale. The saw is sweet and cuts true, but needs to be sharpened. I've managed to remove the medallion and from the patent date on the medallion (Dec. ?, 186[0/6/9] - I can only say that the final year numeral has to be one of those three) the saw is an 1860s, or 1870s manufacture. The other two nuts however are a different story. I have a decent drive that fits the split nuts nicely but the nuts will not release from the bolt element and turn in the hole. Since the medallion had verdigris developing, it is possible that the other two are worse. Has anyone dealt with this successfully without destroying the nuts?

[Ryan Baker]

One of the saw experts will probably chime in. You might try something like putting some white vinegar on them and letting it soak in for a while. That might help break up whatever oxidation is in there.

[Kees Heiden]

The screwheads have a square under the head which fits in a square hole in the wood to prevent them from turning. The square hole in the wood often gets rounded when you try to remove the nut, and then the screws are spinning around making it impossible to unscrew the nuts. So you need to keep the screws from spinning. it sometimes helps to press down that side of the handle on a piece of sandpaper, hoping this will just give enough resistance to the screwheads to keep them still. Overall it's best to leave the splitnuts alone and clean and refurbish the saw with the handle attached.

[ken hatch]

Take a twin screw clamp put leather on one jaw, drill a hole larger than the diameter of the split nut through the other jaw. Clamp the handle. The leather should stop the bolt from turning while you unscrew the split nut.

ken

[Jim Matthews]

You might put a drop or two of light oil
on the split nut side, and wrap the works
in a plastic bag for awhile.

I've had poor results removing corroded screws
such as these - the threads tend to be eroded,
inside the wooden handle.

[Winton Applegate]

As Ken said.
That was excellent !
I would add, if you still don't geeeter loose at first with the Ken system, some heat focused right on the metal. Not enough to singe the wood but nearly that hot. Big soldering iron or big soldering gun. Clean all the solder off the tip first/heat and wipe with a rag/then file. (re-tin the tip after you get the saw work completed).
Heat the screw (bolt)
THEN
let it cool off, even get colder than room temp. Maybe cycle that routine a couple of times.
THEN
go back to Ken's system again.

[george wilson]

Do be careful of the torque you use. Those old split nuts and bolts were made of very rough sand cast brass,which has little strength. This weakness is why they made all the regular wood screws out of iron in the earlier days. When I got to Williamsburg I was surprised to see iron screws used in brass hinges. They looked strange to me at first,until I found out why iron was used. The brass screws we have today are made from cold rolled brass,which is a great deal stronger.

[John Dougherty]

Thanks to all of you who responded. I was reluctant to remove the handle at all, but while the blade as pretty nice, it had been accumulating crud for years in the garage it came from. The area right next to the handle shows oxidation I want to stop that appears to recede under the wood. I'll try Ken's and Winton's suggestions. I was wondering of there is anything like Liquid Wrench that will act on brass.

[Brian Hale]

I would avoid using any kind of oil/penatrant as it could discolor the wood around the nut. Heat, clamping and tapping only. As a last resort, drill it out and get replacement nuts

[Winton Applegate]

wondering of there is anything like Liquid Wrench that will act on brass

ha, ha . . . do you remember the radio show Click and Clack ?
Auto repair advice guys :rolleyes: AND SO MUCH MORE.
ha, ha
anyway they used to say the following to the callers who wanted a quick fix to their auto engine problem via something they could buy in a can off the shelf :

"Oh sure you could do that . . . just go to the local auto parts store . . . walk up and down the isles until you locate something that says MIRACLE on the can . . . pour that in your gas tank . . .
. . .
and when that doesn't work call us back." :p

aaaaaactually, come to think of it, what do you all say to soaking the thing in a fair amount of paint thinner ? I mean they use that to clean the surfaces of old good quality furniture. As I understand it that would not have a negative effect on the wood. It would eventually just evaporate.

:eek: NOT PAINT STRIPPER
:) Paint Thinner

:( That would pretty much end your option of the heat though. At the least with the thinner in the wood the resulting fumes would drive you out of the house when you heated the bolts and at the worst it would burst into flames and maim you for life.

;) Still I think if the Ken method isn't immediately effective the heat is your best bet.
You could heat up a hunk of metal, preferably copper but a fire place poker or rail road spike would serve, on the stove and hold it against the metal bolt to heat it up. Have a wet rag ready so that if you over do it (unlikely with this method) you can simply hold the rag against the wood handle and it will stop the singeing.

PS: I was going to say use a big Ol' bolt to heat up but it might be (probably will be) galvanized and the fumes resulting from heating it are bad to breath. Vaporized Zinc . . . not good.

[Mel Fulks]

"PORE that in your ...." Winton, you too have been edited by by spellcheck!

[Winton Applegate]

Mel,

PORE
Why . . . what ever do you mean ? (ha, ha, I changed it)
Thanks


by by spellcheck
by by to you too

PS: the machines will win. It is just a matter of time. My slip shod editing will probably give them the critical foot hold they have been monitoring for . . . and the fall of civilization as we know it (or remember it from the way it was " in the good old days") will be my fault.

:(

I should have payed better attention in school but english class made my eyes cross and my brain fall out. I was even too stupid for team sports. Back then the only time I felt in the zone was with a tool in my hand.

Now that the call for mechanics and crafts people has vanished I find the only time I feel really in my element is when I am here irritating the crap out of you guys.

:D

[John Dougherty]

Thanks for all the suggestions. So far none of the suggestions have worked sad to say. The other nuts are frozen to the bolts, and the bolts turn freely. I've tried heat, epoxying a nut onto the saw, and penetrating lubricants without effect.

[george wilson]

It could be that at some point the nuts were loose,and someone mught have hit the nuts with a hammer to tighten them,squashing the screw threads so they do not work any more. The saw screws may now just be like rivets that do not screw loose.

[lowell holmes]

Sounds like you have run across that situation before. I bet you and your associates at Fredericksburg have seen about everything.

[george wilson]

That would be Williamsburg!:) And,we have seen a lot,for sure!

[lowell holmes]

Being from Texas, I keep getting Williamsburg and Fredericksburg mixed up. I was privileged to attend a January session at Williamsburg in 2002. It was a blast.