Cost versus satisfaction of Hobbies

[Moses Yoder]

This summer I was involved in three "hobbies". Wet shaving, woodworking, and Coleman lanterns. I got into wet shaving and joined a forum and gradually while reading the posts there I realized I would "need" hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of stuff if I wanted to be respected in that community. I recently wanted to shave my head so I bought a bag of disposable razors. A few days later I was in a hurry and needed to shave so I just whipped some shaving cream on my face and grabbed one of the disposables and presto, I was shaved. It was an enlightening experience, kind of like when Percy Jackson stops eating the lotus flowers. What have I been thinking? The same is true, but not to such an extent, in woodworking. Since my wife cross stitches I am also familiar with that hobby and the forums a little; it is also true there but not to the same extent. I have found in Coleman collecting it is not true at all; what gains the most respect in Coleman circles is the ability to fettle an old lantern and get it running again. I have decided to rank the hobbies I know in terms of what they cost versus the satisfaction you gain from them, with low cost and high satisfaction being the goal. Woodworking ranks low simply because of the cost of admission; it has a very high satisfaction rate.

1) Coleman lanterns
2) Counted cross stitching
3) Woodworking
4) Wet shaving

What do you think?

[Frederick Skelly]

Interesting topic Moses. Im not sure where you want to head with it, but as I read your post I started thinking about the cost of WW as a hobby, and the why of it. Heres my $0.02, anyway.

Before I got my first real job, I built decent, functional stuff with a circ saw, jig saw, hammer and nails that gave me pleasure/satisfaction. It was first apartment type stuff, but I enjoyed building and using it. Years go by and, because I had some disposable income, I started buying some stationary tools. That makes certain jobs easier, but I dont think I could truly say I HAD to have any of it. Then I discovered hand tools. Sigh. Its real easy to get carried away there - and I probably have to an extent. But I get just as much satisfaction - and good work - from a refurbished old Stanley plane as I do from one of my LVs. And I paid much less for the Stanley. Woodworking does have a cost - you have to have SOME tools and lumber CAN be expensive. But I think that sometimes the cost of a hobby is self inflicted, not necessarily required. (Theres a lot of guys making nice stuff from pallets, for example.)

A buddy of mine does bicycles. When I ride on a weekend, I use a $100 Kmart-type bike. He rides $3000 composite bike that is equipped with strain gauges and Lord knows what else. Another friend is an outdoorsman - believe me, you can get just as carried away with camping and hiking gear. Cars, guns, even stamp collecting - you can make it expensive. But it doesnt have to be so, in many cases.

I dont know anything about collecting Colemans or wetshaving, but I agree that Cross-stitch can produce beautiful things for a relatively low entry price.

Im looking forward to hearing other folks describe hobbies with low cost/high satisfaction.

[Mike Cutler]

Moses

I raced bicycles for many years, not so much a hobby as a lifestyle, and now have many thousands of dollars hanging from the water pipes in my basement.
Woodworking is pretty cheap compared to racing bicycles.
I guess right now Woodworking and music are my only "hobbies".

As an aside; One of my various jobs as a kid was assembling the pump/gas valve bodies for Coleman Lanterns in a factory. Haven't touched one is almost 40 years, but I built a zillion of them one summer.

[ken masoumi]

I used to be in freshwater fishkeeping hobby,had 4-5 huge aquariums,my wife used to say our basement was more like a pet shop lol.
I guess there's no such a thing as a cheap hobby,if there is then some one is not paying attention to the potential opportunity of making money on it.

[Jim Becker]

Hobbies/avocations are certainly dependent on "disposable income", but it's important not to buy into big generalizations around high cost of entry in many cases. Since SMC is a woodworking forum, I'll go in that direction. Yes, we "can" put a lot of money into our shops for tools and what not, but there can be equal satisfaction and amazing craftsmanship that comes from simple tools...obtained for free or at low cost with a little elbow grease added...and free or low cost materials. While we're all human and "tool envy" certainly can come into play, there's no actual reason one cannot enjoy woodworking with a modest budget if they want to. Woodworking doesn't have to entail making large furniture or cabinet installations. It can be small, personal projects made entirely with simple hand tools. It can be carving/whittling...most folks can afford a reasonable quality knife and a stone to keep it sharp. But even those large projects can be done via simple methods and modest tooling. We each need to set our own expectations and remember that the journey to the end result can take many different paths.

[glenn bradley]

A hobby should provide diversion and satisfaction. We all have to be realistic about what we can afford and how deep we need to get in order for the hobby to satisfy us. Certainly if a hobby brought me levels of angst and longing as opposed to peace and fulfillment I should pick something else. I am quite sure that I have still not spent what I spent on golf before I admitted that I just was not going to get any better at it :o.

This doesn't mean I don't drool over "really cool stuff" but, even if I had it, I have no where to put it. If I had somewhere to put it, my interests would be so diverse that I would spend all my time fooling with things and not much time using them. That being said I do know people who spend their entire hobby time "getting ready" to do something. As soon as the are "all ready" they lose interest and move on to something else. We all pick the part of an activity that we enjoy and all forms are valid in my opinion . . . some I don't understand but, that's OK too. :)

[Ole Anderson]

This summer I was involved in three "hobbies". Wet shaving, woodworking, and Coleman lanterns. I got into wet shaving and joined a forum and gradually while reading the posts there I realized I would "need" hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of stuff if I wanted to be respected in that community.

How in the world do you sink hundreds of thousands into "wet shaving"?

I have several "hobbies" none of which am I absolutely gung ho about. WW, photography, biking, kayaking, salt water fishing, boating, they all ebb and flow like the wind, always there but sometimes one really hits me for a bit. Right now I am hitting a peak in my hobby of church audio/video, the difference being that I get to play with, mostly, other's money. The cost of one ski boat will eclipse most any WW shop. With today's new generation smartphones, one could get into photography on a shoestring, as no longer is a darkroom required. It is all about composition, the equipment is a bonus, just like planing with a 24" stationary machine vs an old Stanley.

[Myk Rian]

How in the world do you sink hundreds of thousands into "wet shaving"?
That's what I was wondering.
I, as well as most here, have thousands into WW machines. Can't imagine shaving costing that much.

[Judson Green]

Interesting topic.

Something that I find kinda funny about WW as a hobby (or rather a trait nearly common/universal to all woodworkers) is we general are frugal and have a mentality that we can do it better for less. And almost all of us started with very little knowledge and/or tools but still felt we could do it better for less.

[Matt Day]

I noticed you mentioned being respected by forums. Why? Do it for your own pleasure not to show off on the Internet.

[Shawn Pixley]

Interesting question. For my hobbies in order of least expensive to most expensive (considering both time and money - I don't have a lot of spare time):

Futball (soccer) - cheap: Ball and Shoes
Playing guitar - expensive over lifetime, but cheap now (basically strings)
Woodworking / metalworking - expensive over lifetime, moderate to expensive now (largely materials, I really don't need more tools - sacrelige I know)
Reading - expensive. I read a lot.

Ato the enjoyment quotient, I find these the right mix of enjoyment to cost for me. I had other hobbies, but the others didn't measure up (time and/or money.

[Chuck Wintle]

i probably spent thousands of dollars flying rc aircraft. eventually i realized my skill level was not enough to justify the continuing outlay of cash every season. so thats it, i have sold all of my stuff and have no interest left for the hobby. Funny how that cycle of interest and apathy works. My main passion now is computers and that seems to fit me quite well for now.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

Although I can sell a custom surfboard for up to $5k, a kayak for $6k, and a boat for $30k+, for me it's not about making money. It is about the joy, and that is priceless. I am about to drop at least $60k on a shop that will mostly support the hobby, although it is planned that in retirement (many years away- still young) it will be supplemental income. If I break even I am more than happy. The closest we come to God is when we create. Think about it- what really separates us from animals is the ability to create. I love to create, and it is worth it to me to pay $10,000 for hand tools that allow me to continue to do so, or much more for a workshop to do it in. Do I need hardwood floors instead of plywood? Of course not, but looking at the wood every day inspires me. I think of the many years that the tree took to grow the unique pattern of rings, and I want to do it justice. Sorry for getting religious, but for me it is religious. I think of how God created the wood over many years, and I am the one privileged to see it for the first time as I open it up. I feel honored to do the wood justice. The tree sacrificed its life for my art, and I am entrusted to do it justice through my creativity. Can you really put a price on that?

[Kent A Bathurst]

Miscellaneous hobbies are for dogs that don't fish.

[Myk Rian]

I have almost as much into kites as I do machines.

[Frederick Skelly]

I have almost as much into kites as I do machines.

KITES? Really? When I was a kid I LOVED kites. Especially Box kites.

I didnt know it was ok for grown men to still fly kites. Tell us about THAT hobby Myk! Puleeeeze?

(This could be the start of a whole new hobby/adventure.)

[Kent A Bathurst]

Yeah, buddy!!

I'm all ears. [eyes?]

[Mike Henderson]

I used to do a lot of jogging. Other than the cost of new shoes maybe twice a year, there's not much else. I'm sure you can find things to spend money on but you don't need anything else.

I traveled a lot and had the opportunity to see a lot of cities on a jog. Also kept my weight down.

Mike

[Brian Elfert]

How in the world do you sink hundreds of thousands into "wet shaving"?

I suspect he meant hundreds OR thousands.

My main hobby right now is working on my converted bus, at least during the summer and fall months. I probably have close to $100,000 into it with no debt tied to it. I enjoy working on it just as much as I do using it. It costs me close to $2,000 a year in costs before I even drive it the first mile each year. I typically only take one 4,000 trip with it each year. I spend so much money on fixing it and finishing the project I have no money to take it on other trips when it costs 50 cents a mile to drive down the road.

[Shawn Pachlhofer]

woodworking has a low cost of admission?

someone please 'splain that to my wife.


but really - don't start wood turning. there's always some new tool, or cool piece of wood, or...or...or...

[Matt Day]

Let's see some pictures of this 6 figure project bus Brian! You've got me intrigued!

[Raymond Fries]

I think a hobby is that pastime that you enjoy regardless of the money. Some hobbies are pretty low cost and some others can be carried to extremes for people with really deep pockets. I have not flown for several years now but enjoy R/C airplanes. I like building them and flying them. I went with gliders because they fit my needs and were not as expensive as the ones with engines. They are quiet and a challenge to find thermals to keep them up. Did you know that the speed record for R/C airplanes was a glider. Maybe this has changed since the advent of ducted fan and turbine engines.

Everyone has different resources and incomes that can afford different hobbies. To me, the most important thing is to enjoy what is fun for you with what you have to spend on it.

Take Care and Enjoy Life...

[Myk Rian]

Nothing better than a sky full of kites. There are kite festivals all over the world.
I also fly stunt kites. Those are fun because they maneuver where you want them to go.

302395302396302397

My big one. I fly it with a 2500 lb strength line.

http://vid938.photobucket.com/albums/ad222/MykRian/misc/SUNP0020_zpskomgzsid.mp4

[Brian Elfert]

Let's see some pictures of this 6 figure project bus Brian! You've got me intrigued!

I looked for some pictures the other day and can't find any. I think they are all on the SD card in my camera and I can't find the camera since I moved a month ago. The bus is currently covered for the winter so hard to take any new photos.

For all the money into the bus it doesn't look like much. It badly needs paint. About $25,000 of the cost is simply mechanical repairs and tires. It needed almost $10,000 in repairs when I got plus all new tires for $3,000. I was just looking at my financial software and it appears I am closer to $125,000 into this project since 2006. No wonder I never have any money.

[Pat Barry]

This summer I was involved in three "hobbies". Wet shaving, woodworking, and Coleman lanterns. I got into wet shaving and joined a forum and gradually while reading the posts there I realized I would "need" hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of stuff if I wanted to be respected in that community. I recently wanted to shave my head so I bought a bag of disposable razors. A few days later I was in a hurry and needed to shave so I just whipped some shaving cream on my face and grabbed one of the disposables and presto, I was shaved. It was an enlightening experience,
I don't have a fascination with shaving so I do it with a modern electric razor every morning before work - no weekend shaving. I do invest money and time in my cabin, fishing, woodworking, poker, but sadly not golf this year. Of these I only have one positive return on my investment but I enjoy all of them equally

[Wade Lippman]

How in the world do you sink hundreds of thousands into "wet shaving"?

It must be a euphemism for something, though I can't imagine what.

[Tom Stenzel]

I noticed you mentioned being respected by forums. Why? Do it for your own pleasure not to show off on the Internet.

Matt nails it.

Or to distill it even further: Hobbies- for your own pleasure.

End of story.

-Tom

[Moses Yoder]

I noticed you mentioned being respected by forums. Why? Do it for your own pleasure not to show off on the Internet.

Yes, I think this is the key. On the other hand, there is no doubt that the internet causes consumerism. It makes me want things I never knew existed. Naturally the hundreds of thousands was a little exaggeration, but there are members on a forum who apparently have hundreds of razors that cost them more than $300 dollars apiece.

[Justin Ludwig]

I found the main key to my happiness was "wanting less." Once I established that, everything started falling in place and I had money to do whatever and buy whatever I wanted.

As for hobbies: I fish in my FIL's 4-5acre pond with 2 different poles (spinning reel and open face). Both were gifts. I've played disc golf for 20 years and have spent less than $500 on gear over that time period. I have entered tourneys and such where hotel costs and traveling were incurred.

I used to surf and found it too expensive because I couldn't stay off the North Shore of Oahu and was breaking boards. Simultaneously, I was downhill racing mountain bikes - which got into the thousands as well.

Woodwork is my profession that I treat as a hobby. I'm rewarded and get the tax write-off.

[Frederick Skelly]

Nothing better than a sky full of kites. There are kite festivals all over the world.
I also fly stunt kites. Those are fun because they maneuver where you want them to go.

My big one. I fly it with a 2500 lb strength line.


Man thats neat! Thanks Myk!

[Steve Peterson]

Hobbies have a huge range of costs. Riding bicycles can range from $100 to many thousands of dollars. Fishing can cost as little as $100 for a simple pole and a license or it can cost $50K for a boat and another $50K for the truck to pull it. Even watching TV can be really cheap or really expensive.

I think I have spent less than $20K over the course of about 5 years for a well equipped shop. At least half of that should be recoverable if I decided to sell everything. This puts my real cost at about $10K for 5 years, or around 2K per year. My future expenses are expected to be lower, since I don't plan many large power tool purchases. I consider this to be a fairly cheap hobby. It could also get really expensive if I spend $100K on a workshop.

Steve

[Andy Pogue]

As hard as it can be to find the cash for a hobby, It seems that it is increasingly difficult to find disposable time for them.
when I was 20 I thought by now (55) I'd just be doing whatever I wanted to do, whenever I wanted to do it.
As the poet said, " youth, like love, is wasted on the young".

[Richard Hutchings]

disposable time That's what I want. I probably have spent enough on tools through the years. I still want more.

[Andy Pogue]

Grandma said, "we always find the time to do what we really want to do."
I wonder if she was wrong about other things too?

[Kent A Bathurst]

Grandma said, "we always find the time to do what we really want to do."
I wonder if she was wrong about other things too?

No. She was right about all of them. You need to pay closer attention to your Grandma, Grasshopper. :D :D

[Justin Pfenning]

I agree with many of the replies here. Hobbies can be expensive, or they can be cost effective. For me, it boils down to time available for the hobby, and what I want to accomplish in a given amount of time. It's a give and take as I see it. If your goal is to produce a piece of fine furniture, many techniques will get you to your goal. Building with hand tools (cheaper) will take much longer than building with nice machinery (expensive). I need to see progress when I make time for a hobby, or I get bored and move on to something else. Because I'm wired this way, I can't take the long road. I'm sure others here are the opposite, and only want to take the long road. To each his own, that's what you need to figure out. Good luck.

Justin

[Bert Kemp]

Well Said it is a priceless Art


Although I can sell a custom surfboard for up to $5k, a kayak for $6k, and a boat for $30k+, for me it's not about making money. It is about the joy, and that is priceless. I am about to drop at least $60k on a shop that will mostly support the hobby, although it is planned that in retirement (many years away- still young) it will be supplemental income. If I break even I am more than happy. The closest we come to God is when we create. Think about it- what really separates us from animals is the ability to create. I love to create, and it is worth it to me to pay $10,000 for hand tools that allow me to continue to do so, or much more for a workshop to do it in. Do I need hardwood floors instead of plywood? Of course not, but looking at the wood every day inspires me. I think of the many years that the tree took to grow the unique pattern of rings, and I want to do it justice. Sorry for getting religious, but for me it is religious. I think of how God created the wood over many years, and I am the one privileged to see it for the first time as I open it up. I feel honored to do the wood justice. The tree sacrificed its life for my art, and I am entrusted to do it justice through my creativity. Can you really put a price on that?

[Bert Kemp]

Wow it amazes me the people we have here and the things they've done, I really enjoy reading about all the stuff you've done. Me I guess I'm like most here had many hobbies over the years, I guess my first hobby was WW I made coffee tables from pine slabs about 3" thick, easy to find pine slabs in NH not so easy in AZ. Tools , belt sander, skill saw, and a drill was about all I needed. I got into Photography for a while even had a dark room, then digital came along and I stuck with it for a while but now its mostly family pic's.I didn't spend a lot of money on cameras or ww tools.Motorcycling has always been a hobby of mine got my first bike when I was 17 and haven't stopped since, by far I spend the most money on this hobby, several bikes over the year and who knows how many thousands in gas, camping equipment and hotel rooms. I've ridden to 38 States, 4 Canadian provinces , and Mexico. And now laser engraving a fair amount of money spent here. laser engraving also incorporates woodworking, I think I've bought more wood working tools since owning a laser then ever before. But I don't regret spending any of the money because the satisfaction far out weighs the cost.

[Larry Edgerton]

Try racing, you will realize how inexpensive woodworking is.........

[John Sanford]

One of the more interesting aspects of hobbies is the divide between "useful" hobbies, and essentially useless hobbies. Now, the truth is that almost all hobbies are, for us denizens of the First of the First World, useless. But those of us drawn to the useful hobbies often work hard to convince others (and ourselves?) that our hobby is useful. But it rarely is, from a purely functional standpoint.

A table is a table is a table. It keeps stuff off the floor. The dinner plate doesn't care in the least that it is being supported by particleboard from Ikea or a French polished curly maple with ebony and cocobolo inlaid top. WE care, yet they are the same (over the short term) functionally. And before anybody goes into how the particleboard table will fall apart in 3 years or whatever, so what? Instead of particleboard, how about a "crappy" metal and plastic folding table from Wal-Mart? It will last decades. And it folds up for easy portability.

The same applies for almost all of the "useful" hobbies. Whether it's cooking, sewing, woodworking, gardening, fishing, etc, etc, the wonders of the modern economy can generally deliver as much functionality for a fraction of the cost, especially if we factor in our time. Yes, that beautiful segmented bowl is a masterpiece, a work of art even. And it complements the handcrafted living room so well. And the styrofoam bowl next to it does just as good of a job of keeping a few pieces of fruit at hand. At least those who ski or race cars or are audiophiles can generally dispense with any notion that they're "saving money" in their hobby.

Once one understands this, then you can truly grapple with the satisfaction issue. Knowing WHAT it is that brings one satisfaction is really the key to "maximizing your hobby ROI". It may be creating, it may be solving a problems, it may be mastering process, it may be the meditative aspect, it may be the oohs and ahhs of others, it may be an adrenaline rush, the "may bes" are infinite. (Generally, adrenaline rushes in woodworking are to be avoided, whereas in skiing they may be sought out.... just sayin'.) The useful stuff that we create CAN bring down the cost of the hobby.

Never forget that part of the joy of any hobby is learning new things. That's likely part of what sucked the OP into the twisted, sick, oh. so. wrong. world of shaving. Me, my shaving hobby is about as cheap as they come. I don't shave. :D

[Andrew Joiner]

Building and designing things was my first hobby as a kid. I've always been value oriented so selling the things I made soon followed. My satisfaction level was at an all time high when clients paid me well for work I loved to do. There was no cost to having my shop, it was an investment that was paid for many times over. After that I thought I could never design and build as a hobby again.

Then I got into the hobby of windsurfing in 1986 with a second hand $200 board and sail . It was truly a hobby the first few months. Just a simple, cheap form of sailing with no boat or trailer maintenance. As my windsurfing skill increased, one day in a stiff breeze, I got planing. Planing is when the board magically pops up and skips across the water like you just found it's accelerator. That was when windsurfing went from a hobby to an expensive sport! I wanted to recapture that planing magic as often as I could. I bought new boards and sails that were lighter and more efficient. Then I had to travel to find higher winds, so I bought a trailer and a van. The gear got better when carbon was introduced, but carbon is, no surprise expensive. I finally had to quit working(some call it retirement) so I could travel and windsurf, that cost money and my income dropped! My skills increased so luckily I've gotten free gear from sponsors over the last 20 years. Now I live in a high wind area where used gear is readily available at a low cost if I lose my sponsors. I got lucky with my investments that allowed an early retirement and we're healthy. I have to say from 1986 to today my satisfaction with windsurfing has only increased. For awhile it cost a lot but so worth it.

I got into designing furniture again a few years ago. I was bored in the winter. I had only minimal tools. I tried building with just hand tools. That was frustratingly slow to me. I had high quality machinery in my commercial shop and was use to the speed and precision. Unlike the first time I put together a shop I've got plenty of money, but how could I justify the lavish expense of a woodshop for hobby use? I started small with a minimal shop. Then I got the satisfaction of designing and building a fine piece of furniture again after a 10 year hiatus. It opened my mind to just building things for pleasure. I can build anything I want with the hobby shop that I have now. I have about $5K into it. The materials to make what I like get expensive. Overall it's actually cheap for the satisfaction level I get.

If I felt I needed expensive machinery to build the things I wanted I might be less satisfied.

[Brian W Smith]

Have sort of subscribed to "The Futile Pursuit of Happiness" notion since reading it.......in fact,it was on a machinist forum 10 or so years ago.Here's a quickie NYT review.

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/07/magazine/the-futile-pursuit-of-happiness.html

[Frederick Skelly]

Have sort of subscribed to "The Futile Pursuit of Happiness" notion since reading it.......in fact,it was on a machinist forum 10 or so years ago.Here's a quickie NYT review.

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/07/magazine/the-futile-pursuit-of-happiness.html

That was an interesting article. Gonna have to think some more about that.

[Jim Becker]

As hard as it can be to find the cash for a hobby, It seems that it is increasingly difficult to find disposable time for them.

I agree with this 100%!!!!