Is there any advantage of carbide tipped band saw blades other than lasting longer?

[Michael Yadfar]

On my bandsaw I've just been using the standard 3/8" 6TPI blade it came with which has worked well for what I've needed it for. However, I'm going to be getting into some resawing and cross cutting of thick stock, so I'm going to buy a 3/4" hooked 3TPI blade. However, in the selection of this blade, there is the regular steel blade and then there's carbide tipped. The price difference is pretty significant, $52 vs $18, so I'm wondering what the significance is and how important it is. I assume the only advantage of the carbon tipped would be that it lasts longer, which wouldn't really be too significant to me because I'm only using this for my personal home shop.

[Matt Day]

Off the top of my head I'll say carbide tipped will cut easier and leave a smoother cut.

A $58 carbide tipped blade would be for a pretty small machine right? What size and what blade were you considering? Might not be worth the cost of you're not resawing that much height.

[Erik Loza]

In my opinion, the big pros of carbide blades are finish quality and of course, longevity against abrasive species of wood. The cons of carbide are that not every owner can benefit from them (or at least if they are more than 1/2" wide, since they require a really sturdy saw to tension properly...), they are much more sensitive to feed rate and pressure than skip-tooth blades, and should never be used on green wood. I look at carbides like a special knife in the butcher block: What they do, no other blade can but you wouldn't use a paring knife for bread, meat, and everything else. You really should have an assortment of blades for your bandsaw.

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i315/erikloza/Mini%20Max%20Bandsaw%20Works/SamplestripsofLyptus.jpg

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[Michael Yadfar]

Off the top of my head I'll say carbide tipped will cut easier and leave a smoother cut.

A $58 carbide tipped blade would be for a pretty small machine right? What size and what blade were you considering? Might not be worth the cost of you're not resawing that much height.

39 1/2" blade. It's actually $58 but close enough. My band saw is only a 14" and I only have 6" resaw capacity without the riser block which I don't have and don't plan to have. I'm using it more for rough cutting stock 1-2" thick, which isn't much height at all

[Michael Yadfar]

You really should have an assortment of blades for your bandsaw.



Erik Loza
Minimax USA

I have a decent assortment for different purposes, like a 1/8" fine tooth blade for sharp curves and now the wider one for heavier work. I learned about the uses for the different blade widths, TPI, and tooth type, but never learned anything about the difference between steel and carbide tip

[Bruce Page]

I used to run Timber Wolf & Wood Slicer blades on my 14" Delta. I never saw a need for a carbide tipped blade on it.
I do have a Lenox Tri-Master carbide for my MiniMax but only use it for re-sawing.

[Peter Quinn]

39 1/2" blade. It's actually $58 but close enough. My band saw is only a 14" and I only have 6" resaw capacity without the riser block which I don't have and don't plan to have. I'm using it more for rough cutting stock 1-2" thick, which isn't much height at all


Is that possible? 39 1/2" blade on a 14" saw? The diameter 2X is 28"' add 2x6 for the height and that's 40" if the wheels were at table height, which typically they are not. I'm thinking your blade is more like 93" IIR on a 14" saw.

[Michael Yadfar]

Is that possible? 39 1/2" blade on a 14" saw? The diameter 2X is 28"' add 2x6 for the height and that's 40" if the wheels were at table height, which typically they are not. I'm thinking your blade is more like 93" IIR on a 14" saw.

Sorry, I got the number reversed. *93 1/2

[Matt Day]

It would be nice to have a carbide blade, but to me you don't need one on a 14" saw. Those saws aren't designed for much resawing to begin with and I think you could spend the money better elsewhere.

[Myk Rian]

A 14" band saw will not tension a carbide blade adequately. I don't care what anyone says. They won't do it.
Especially a 3/4" blade.
Get a 1/2" 3-4tpi bi-metal.

[Michael Yadfar]

A 14" band saw will not tension a carbide blade adequately. I don't care what anyone says. They won't do it.
Especially a 3/4" blade.
Get a 1/2" 3-4tpi bi-metal.

How about a 3/4" that's not carbide?

[Myk Rian]

Max 1/2" blade. That's all you need.

[James Nugnes]

I believe in going the multiple blade route as well. Where it gets a little dicey in the decision making process for some of us is the amount we might use our bandsaws. I am a carver. I love having a bandsaw to knock down larger blocks of wood to something more manageable and then that into blanks. But I will use the bandsaw and then be off to carve for a week before I am back at the bandsaw again.

In my case I decided it was best to have multiples of lower cost but good quality blades instead of getting the carbide tip blades and worrying about all the particulars that relate to them. For example I would rather a good quality value priced blade go dull on me than have a really expensive carbide tip blade break on me suddenly because I was not doing enough bandsaw work to recognize that the carbide tip blade was about to go.

Plus if you have multiple blades and a bandsaw that makes blade changes pretty easy, then you are more likely to use the right blade for a specific job. That alone will help the blades last. Then when it is time for replacement, if you are using blades that are not costing your first born child, it is much easier to decide that the time for a new blade or blades is sooner rather than later. I don't think the ability to send off carbide tip blades to be resharpened is much of an advantage to those of us that are not constantly at the bandsaw either. Usually that seems to e a $45.00 charge. So you spent $250 or so...maybe less down to $150 or so for the blade and $45 every time you sharpen.

My newest addition to the shop is a bandsaw upgrade. Just got a Laguna 14/twelve. That is more than enough bandsaw for the kinds of work I do on a bandsaw. Bought an assortment of blades from the guys in Ohio, Spectrum Supply and got one Laguna blade that I bought with the saw. That way I will have one blade that was really made for the saw.

I can definitely see where the carbide tip blades are an advantage for people that are throwing a bunch of work at their bandsaws all the time, especially work that would really eat "standard" blades. Just don't think they make sense for me and might actually pose more of a safety hazard in my case as i will never have one of them on my saw enough to really learn the ins and outs of that blade style.

[Jim Finn]

I have a 14" band saw with a riser so I can re-saw 12 1/2" stock. I resaw mostly with this saw and use 1/2" carbide 3 TPI blades and they work well. I pay about $25 for these 105" blades. Out last woodslicer blades by about 500%. I get them here: http://supercutbandsaw.com/

[ian maybury]

For sure reports suggest that smaller saws seem to run into problems with bending/stressing the thicker gauge bands on most (not necessarily all - but check the thickness/gauge and dig out the maker's recommended min wheel diameter) carbide tipped blades enough to potentially if not run into at least sail close to the wind in respect of fatigue problems. Likewise they may struggle to tension blades up near their width capability - for the same sorts of reasons. The higher camber typically put on the wheels of smaller saws probably doesn't help either.

Against that as others have said a well tensioned caride tipped blade does seem to have the ability to deliver a significantly better cut finish than a steel toothed blade. My guess on this is that it's because the side of each carbide tooth is ground flat, with the result that it probably has a planing action, and more regular/less pointed tips than the set variety. The teeth on most steel blades are set (bent to each side) to deliver reasonable clearance within the kerf/cut. Trouble is that this method of manufacturing creates outward leaning pointed tip teeth - which presumably with an increased possibility of some teeth being set high causes the more 'scratched' cut surface they produce...

[Myk Rian]

I have a 14" band saw with a riser so I can re-saw 12 1/2" stock. I resaw mostly with this saw and use 1/2" carbide 3 TPI blades and they work well. I pay about $25 for these 105" blades. Out last woodslicer blades by about 500%. I get them here: http://supercutbandsaw.com/
HF sells Supercut. I bought a bunch of 105" blades when they clearanced them. They do carry 93.5". I like those blades, and use them all the time.

[Jim Finn]

Not so sure this is true. The way carbide band saw blades are made is: a strip of carbide is welded to a strip of steel and then the teeth are cut and set.

[Peter Quinn]

Sorry, I got the number reversed. *93 1/2


I asked not to be a jerk, but I'm wondering where you are finding legitimate carbide tooth blades for that saw that cost $60. I can't find anything under $150 in that size, checked laguna, lenox, timber wolf. So I was thinking perhaps you ran the numbers on a site that charges by the inch? and if you do half the inches it comes in around $60. I can't find one for my saw under $300, so if there is a cheaper option out there I'm interested in learning more. FWIW, I don't see the value in carbide for most people, HSS seems to be the best value in terms of LF/inch. I had very good luck with Olson MVP on a 14" saw, I'm using lenox HSS now but in a series that is well beyond a 14" saws ability to tension. The widest thing I had good luck with on my 14" saw was 5/8", normally I ran 1/2". I might consider diemaster in 1/2" for a 14" saw.

[ian maybury]

There's write ups on the outline of how bimetal and carbide tipped blades are made in these links - the methods may or may not be standard in the industry:

http://www.toolcenter.com/123_Bandsaw_Blades.html (click the tab marked 'construction' well down the page)
http://tiny.cc/nt34qx (about 4th section down for how carbide tips are attached, above that is a description of stelliting)

[Jim Becker]

Erik's comments mirror what I would say on this subject. I'll add one more...while the carbide blades can be the "bee's knees" for certain operations, they are also the most "painful" (financially) when you screw them up...DAMHIKT!

[Erik Loza]

For those who who are having a tough time justifying the cost of a carbide, you can get very similar results from the Lenox Die-Master II. Feed rate will be even slower but finish quality is in the ballpark. Way back when, we had David Marks come in and do some seminars for us. He was showing how to make strips for bent-lam projects out of Purple Heart and other crazy stuff like that. I asked why he didn't choose a carbide over the Die-Master. His reply was, "Because I have to pay for it myself".

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[David Kumm]

There is a difference between the lower cost "carbide impregnated" blades and true carbide brazed blades. A good Bi metal or as Erik suggested, Die Master is a good starter blade that allows you to gain some knowledge of resawing and experience with wider blades before coughing up the $$ for the carbide. 1/2" would be as wide as I'd run on a small saw. Smaller blade at higher tension has always worked better for me than wider at lower. Dave

[Rod Sheridan]

You are correct.

Carbide blades are not as sharp as standard blades and require more power to cut with.

That said they last much longer.....Rod.

[Michael Yadfar]

I asked not to be a jerk, but I'm wondering where you are finding legitimate carbide tooth blades for that saw that cost $60. I can't find anything under $150 in that size, checked laguna, lenox, timber wolf. So I was thinking perhaps you ran the numbers on a site that charges by the inch? and if you do half the inches it comes in around $60. I can't find one for my saw under $300, so if there is a cheaper option out there I'm interested in learning more. FWIW, I don't see the value in carbide for most people, HSS seems to be the best value in terms of LF/inch. I had very good luck with Olson MVP on a 14" saw, I'm using lenox HSS now but in a series that is well beyond a 14" saws ability to tension. The widest thing I had good luck with on my 14" saw was 5/8", normally I ran 1/2". I might consider diemaster in 1/2" for a 14" saw.

Im sorry again, it's carbide embedded, so that probably explains the lower price. http://www.grizzly.com/products/93-1-2-x-5-8-x-025-x-3-TPI-Hook-Carbide-Embedded-Bandsaw-Blade/G1994

[John TenEyck]

As Myk said, you cannot adequately tension a 3/4" wide blade on a 14" cast iron BS. Actually, you can't even adequately tension a 1/2" wide one but they will still work OK. By "adequately" I mean at least 18K psi. Even with a high tension (really compression) spring you can only realistically achieve about 12K psi on a 1/2" blade. At that level they will cut well as long as the blade is sharp and you don't feed too fast.

I have been using an Olson 1/2" x 0.025" x 3 tpi MVP bimetal blade on my 14" Delta with riser block (105" length) and a 1.5 HP motor. The danged thing was not sharpened equally on both sides when I got it and just would not cut straight. But it was great after I resharpened it and I resawed hundreds of feet of stock and shop sawn veneer with it before I did something stupid and put a kink in it. I'm sure glade it was only a $35 blade and not a $150+ carbide one. That's reason enough for me not to use carbide blades. As for the Supercut blades, I hope the carbide embedded ones cut better than their Woodslicer (1/2" x 3/4 tpi) type ones. Those things bogged down with any little wood movement that happened, which seems to be frequently with the stuff I cut, and they wandered for the first several inches of every cut. Very frustrating. Narrow kerf is good but only if the blade cuts well.

Anyway, you can easily cut 10+ stock with a 14" saw with a riser block if you have a sharp blade that cuts straight and enough HP to pull it through the wood. I keep thinking it would be nice to have a larger saw but then I look at the beautiful veneer I can slice with my modest set up and realize there are better places to spend my money.

Does anyone have any comparative experience between the Olson MVP 1/2" x 0.025" x 3 tpi bi-metal blade and the Lennox Dimaster 1/2" x 0.035" x 3 tpi one? Does the Dimaster cut any smoother? That's my biggest complaint about the Olson MVP blade. The Dimaster will not get as much tension so that's a negative right off the bat.

John

[James Nugnes]

My 14 is the Laguna 14/twelve. Might be the biggest spring I have seen on a 14 and I am still not sure carbide tip makes sense for it. Blades for it are 115". Come to think if it, 115" seems sort of longish for a 14 but that is what it takes. I have to admit I had been thinking about one of those Die Masters. Thanks for recommending it. I just about have to try one now. Anyway it will be awhile for me to get used to this particular bandsaw. Seems pretty decent for a 14 if a little pricy. Did not want any part of that light they make for it. So at least that was $100 that I did NOT spend. I will likely come up with something that puts a bit more light right at the table. But there there has to be a better way to do it than their dedicated light especially at that price.

[Ted Reischl]

Off the top of my head I'll say carbide tipped will cut easier and leave a smoother cut.



Hmmmm, carbide cannot be sharpened as sharp as most steels because of its molecular structure. Soooo, it does not really cut smoother or easier. I have some old HSS router bits around, when they are sharp. . WOW!

[Sam Murdoch]

I'm using a Laguna 14" SUV and my standard every day blade is their 3/4" carbide toothed Resaw King. I hardly use the table saw anymore with this combo. Rips are a cinch of any solid lumber and resawing 6" of any hardwood I have put to it have been effortless. I routine resaw 3" to 4" stock and laminate it together without additional prep with good results. Still, I have other blades for different applications and have not resawn much more than 6" to 7" tall stock. Just saying that I am very happy with a carbide blade on my 14" bandsaw.

[jack forsberg]

the set does not lay down so there good for high speed saw with over 8000 SFPM. heat is a killer over 5000 SFPM

[David C. Roseman]

How about a 3/4" that's not carbide?

I think you would be disappointed with a 3/4" blade (of any composition, tooth count or configuration) on your saw, even if your owner's manual says it will take one. From the blade length, I'm assuming you have a Rockwell/Delta or Powermatic 14" bandsaw, or one of their various clones. My small BS is the Rockwell/Delta with cast-iron wheels and a 1 hp G.E. motor. Great saw, but not with a 3/4" blade. You'll get a better resaw cut out of a properly-tensioned 1/2" or even 3/8" blade.

Other members have mentioned the Laguna 14/12 and the Laguna 14" SUVs. Yep, those are 14" saws, but very different animals from what you have. 3/4" blades are no problem there.

David

[David Kumm]

Here is what a used Trimaster 3 tpi can do. Both sides were sawn and I'm showing both sides. A 2-3 varitooth should be slightly better.302435302436302437 Maple.040 to .045. The real test is sawing the second face using the sawn face against the fence. Dave