Morning hypothetical table saw question.

[John McBride]

Good morning all.

First, thank you all for your responses to my recent questions as I research the re-outfitting of my new shop. It is greatly appreciated.

My question relates to the new line of Delta contractor/hybridish table saws. Specifically, the 36-725 and 36-5000 series saws.

As related in previous threads of mine, I am still an avowed "old iron" devote. However, the latest offerings from Delta, at least on paper, and through the limited amount of first hand reviews I have been able to find, have me curious. Despite Delta's tragic decline of late.

The 36-725 is rated at 13 amps, and the 36-500 series at 15 amps. Given my current electrical cconfigureation,(110-115 amps to the shop) I want to know if the difference between the two motors would make any appreciable difference if all other factors ( blade selection, alignment, level of tuning,and material thickness/feed rate) were all equal?

The 36-5000 series clearly reads like a step up from the 36-725. But my hypothetical purchase would be the base, stamped steel wing version of the 36-5000, with an eye to a cast iron router table extension later. Effectively making it a 15amp version of the 36-725, which, if purchased, would get the same addition.

Can anyone see a glaring reason, given these factors, why I would/should want to spend the approx $200-ish extra dollars for the 36-5000 version verses the $599-ish 36-725?

EDIT to say, the split rail biesmeyer-like fence on the 36-725 doesn't worry me much, though a true t2 would be preferred like on the 36-5000. This is the only real other difference that I can see between the two series.

Any thoughts, or comments are always very welcome.

[Jim German]

I'd stay far away from anything Delta at this point. In the $800 saw range, I'd get the Grizzly G715P. It weighs almost twice the 36-5000, and grizzly has great customer service.

[John McBride]

Jim,
Noted, and completely understand the prevailing wisdom vis-à-vis Delta/Delta parts, service issues.

Still and all, I am curious about their progress and especially their new line up. It looks, sounds, and is beginning to smell like they are actually making an effort to reconfigure their position in the market place.

While I am not in any way willing to pull trigger on any high dollar (for me and my budget) item of theirs, I submit this particular quandary as an excersise specific to these machines. Specific to these machines, but also with the desire to gain the info regarding the differences in a 13 amp motor vs. 15 amp motor in practical application. This knowledge potentially to be used elsewhere.

Trust me, I am well aware of the big Bear, and am a big fan of theirs as well. I just am curious to hear others thoughts were they to be in my shoes regarding these two saws.

[CPeter James]

It appears that you really want to be a martyr and go with Delta. There are many options out there better than Delta and until someone like you who is willing to bet $800 to find out goes with them, I would not risk my $. They may come back, but then again, the odds are against it. Check out some of the other brands that were sold to Asian companies and see what their quality is today.

CPeter

[Jim German]

13 vs 15 amps is not going to be noticeable, its only a 15% difference in power if you assume that you are actually getting a 15% increase in power. I think that's a big IF, between rounding, marketing speak, and other factors, it wouldn't surprise me if they both actually have the same motor.

The 36-5000 appears to be a replacement for the 36-725, as the 36-725 can't even be found on their website via their navigation bars (google will still show it though).

[John McBride]

It appears that you really want to be a martyr and go with Delta. There are many options out there better than Delta and until someone like you who is willing to bet $800 to find out goes with them, I would not risk my $. They may come back, but then again, the odds are against it. Check out some of the other brands that were sold to Asian companies and see what their quality is today.

CPeter
Guys, .... Seriously .... I hope I am being clear. I am CURIOUS about these saws. I am nearly trying to get a feel for what the real world difference would be (15 amp vs. 13 amp). And am in no way willing to be hoisted by my own Pitard regarding Delta maryterdom.

Sheeeeesh......I would have thought the title here would have been enough to indicate the hypothetical nature of my query. This thread was purely for curiosity satisfaction.

I suppose though, that my question has been answered. Twice. Just not what I had expected is all.

I thank you both for your responses.

Question/query/hypothetical ....... Withdrawn.

[Duane Meadows]

John, in theory a 13A motor is 2.09HP, 15A is 2.4HP. All things being equal(and they rarely are!) the 15A should be what about 15% stronger. Whether that is actually true depends on too many variables to even venture a guess. What drive ratio? What efficiency of each motor? Does the added voltage drop offset the apparent power gain?

I'd think the 0.3HP would be barely noticeable at best. Better fence is a plus for sure.

Short of buying one of each and doing the testing, no easy way to tell!

As others have said, I'd be concerned about parts availability in any case. Also I own 3 lower end Delta machines from about 15 years ago. None are that great... all work. None would I buy again, even if the same quality, which is unlikely.

[CPeter James]

I did not mean to be insulting, but the fact that you kept dwelling on the Delta leads me to believe that you are still "interested". If there was no interest, I would have thought you would have moved on to other more viable options.

CPeter

[John McBride]

I did not mean to be insulting, but the fact that you kept dwelling on the Delta leads me to believe that you are still "interested". If there was no interest, I would have thought you would have moved on to other more viable options.

CPeter

CPete,
Not at all, I think what you may have picked up from my tone last, was my own frustration at not having communicated clearly. Purely my mistake, and ab-sooooo-lutely, no offense taken on my part, I assure you. My apologies for posting this morning sans the appropriate level of caffination.

[Kent A Bathurst]

.......... am in no way willing to be hoisted by my own Pitard regarding Delta maryterdom.

Sheeeeesh......I would have thought the title here would have been enough to indicate the hypothetical nature of my query. This thread was purely for curiosity satisfaction.

Question/query/hypothetical ....... Withdrawn.

I did not misunderstand you, John, nor did the overwhelming majority of the people that read your subject or OP.

I doubt that very many people could provide you with real-world observations. I also would bet that most readers - as did I - read the post and shrugged - and passed on the opportunity to get dragged into another discussion about Delta's steady progression into a slow-motion train wreck.

If I might make this observation: your actual question boils down to this:


The 36-725 is rated at 13 amps, and the 36-500 series at 15 amps.................I want to know if the difference between the two motors would make any appreciable difference if all other factors .............. were all equal?

You gave us a moderatley detailed rationale behind the highlighted section above.

Which did 2 things:
1. Somewhat obscured your single focus on the performance of the 2 motors, and
2. Opened the door for a broader-scale trashing of Delta.

Actually - you could have expanded the hypothetical umbrella to the saws themselves, and inquire about 2 generic tablesaws with these motor specs.

I have no argument with your post, whatsoever. I was not at all thrilled with the replies that you did get. But - you unwittingly opened the door on a divisive topic, in a group of guys that go back to the good ol' days of Delta, when their stuff was solid - including me. But that horse's carcass has been pulverized here to the point that there aren't even shreds - noithing left to be said.

Jim gave you a solid answer on his his second swing. In his first reply CPeter seems enamoured of his witticism and clearly has a blanket anti-offshoring bias, and he did not address your question in his second post - he basically doubled down - oh well.

Hey - shrug it off.

FWIW - my answer to the purely hypothetical version is that the difference between the motor specs are close enough to make it a non-issue. All other things being equal - except price - save the $$. If there is, in fact, a difference in performance, it would likely show up on thicker wood. Get a good blade wth fewer teeth for ripping 6/4 and up - maybe 5/4 and up. Then you will always have that blade, even if you upgrade the saw in the future.

[John McBride]

I did not misunderstand you, John, nor did the overwhelming majority of the people that read your subject or OP.

I doubt that very many people could provide you with real-world observations. I also would bet that most readers - as did I - read the post and shrugged - and passed on the opportunity to get dragged into another discussion about Delta's steady progression into a slow-motion train wreck.

If I might make this observation: your actual question boils down to this:



You gave us a moderatley detailed rationale behind the highlighted section above.

Which did 2 things:
1. Somewhat obscured your single focus on the performance of the 2 motors, and
2. Opened the door for a broader-scale trashing of Delta.

Actually - you could have expanded the hypothetical umbrella to the saws themselves, and inquire about 2 generic tablesaws with these motor specs.

I have no argument with your post, whatsoever. I was not at all thrilled with the replies that you did get. But - you unwittingly opened the door on a divisive topic, in a group of guys that go back to the good ol' days of Delta, when their stuff was solid - including me. But that horse's carcass has been pulverized here to the point that there aren't even shreds - noithing left to be said.

Jim gave you a solid answer on his his second swing. In his first reply CPeter seems enamoured of his witticism and clearly has a blanket anti-offshoring bias, and he did not address your question in his second post - he basically doubled down - oh well.

Hey - shrug it off.

FWIW - my answer to the purely hypothetical version is that the difference between the motor specs are close enough to make it a non-issue. All other things being equal - except price - save the $$. If there is, in fact, a difference in performance, it would likely show up on thicker wood. Get a good blade wth fewer teeth for ripping 6/4 and up - maybe 5/4 and up. Then you will always have that blade, even if you upgrade the saw in the future.

Kent,
Thank you. I really should go all the way through your response, and highlight where you are absolutely correct in your assesment of my original de-caffinated post.You are spot on, and I apologise to all for a post that SHOULD have been much more though out. Not my normal modis operondi. Nor is it polite for a noob to the boards to post randomly the way I did. Again, Mea Culpa, Mea Culpa, Mea maxima Culpa.

As it turrns out though, I am reexamining the Grizzly that pete mentioned. Clearly a machine that seems to fit much more closely with what it is I am looking for. The research and cost/benefit weighing goes on.....weird how much I enjoy it so.

Ettequette question, Should I request thoughts on the g0715 here? Or is another thread indicated?

[Kent A Bathurst]

YOuare not obligated to deconstruct my comments.

YOu did nothing wrong. I was just pointing out the slippery slope that you unknowingly stepped on

I'd leave this thread to die a lonley death.

First - use the search function to check out past threads. I have not been in the market for a TS for nearly 15 years, so I don't what has already been discussed on this Grizz.

Then you will be up to speed for the next set of ??

[John McBride]

YOuare not obligated to deconstruct my comments.

YOu did nothing wrong. I was just pointing out the slippery slope that you unknowingly stepped on

I'd leave this thread to die a lonley death.

First - use the search function to check out past threads. I have not been in the market for a TS for nearly 15 years, so I don't what has already been discussed on this Grizz.

Then you will be up to speed for the next set of ??

Agreed,
Consider the research, prior to post, commencing. Thanks again.

[Joe Hillmann]

If you are seriously considering a delta I would suggest calling delta directly and try ordering a part for it, maybe the arbor or a bearing. If they can get you one then your hope in them turning around may be well founded. If they can't get you the part that would reenforce what everyone else says about delta.

[Chris Hachet]

I'd stay far away from anything Delta at this point. In the $800 saw range, I'd get the Grizzly G715P. It weighs almost twice the 36-5000, and grizzly has great customer service.


Pretty much this...

[Mark S Walters]

So, it's been six months since this thread 'died'. I have been more or less in the market for a new saw for quite a while, but have just been too busy to pursue a purchase. During that time I looked at lots of carpenter saws and was underwhelmed. Like a few other posters I am a fan of the Grizzly, but here's my problem; my shop shares garage space with a lot of other things and so my table saw needs to move from time to time. What attracted me to the Delta when I saw it on the floor at Lowes was the built in mobile base, and specifically the tremendous stability when it is parked. That let me to search for reviews, and at the risk of calling out the haters in this forum, the Delta line has gotten some very solid reviews from various corners, including a couple of other woodworker forums and magazines. Maybe (like me) they're all current users of job site saws from which just about anything would be considered an upgrade? Regardless, my question for the group is, does anyone know of a high quality mobile base that mates well with the Grizzly that allows it to enjoy the rock solid stability of the Delta's when parked? If I could find such a thing I'd be off to Bellingham tomorrow to shop for a Grizzly.

[cody michael]

I had a delta base on my old delta contractor saw that was really nice, had 2 wheels on the left, and a swivel caster in the center, push caster down it picked up the saw. when caster up it rested on 4 rubber feet, worked great.

I now have a unisaw, I made my own base, it was pretty cheap, but you would need a welder, I made it out of either 1/4 or 3/16 3by4 angle, it is tough enough to drive a car on, and with the 5 inch wheels I put on it quite mobile.

[scott spencer]

You can put a mobile base on just about any saw. How solid it is really depends on the base and the execution of placing/mounting the saw to it.

[Mike Cutler]

Mark

I have a couple of mobile base designs on my machines and so far the one I like the best is the Jet JMB Universal base. It's simple to put together, strong and stable.
I have a General International Hybrid saw one, and a Delta 43-375 shaper on another. Both are heavier than the Delta, or the Grizzly saw you are looking at. Place the wheels at 90 degrees to the flow of work and you shouldn't have any problems. If you're willing to drill 8 extra holes in the base corner pieces, to get a second fastener at each corner, you can really lock that base up tight. to a machine. I also cut a 3/4" plywood panel to the interior dimension of the base, so that the machine is sitting on plywood and not metal on metal when it's on the base.
The Shop Fox D2057 and D2058 Mobile bases are pretty nice also.
I have three of the "tripod" type mobile bases, in use under two band saws, and a jointer, and they are just awful. Luckily the machines I have don't move very often, or they would have hit the metal dumpster long ago.

[Rod Sheridan]

Guys, .... Seriously .... I hope I am being clear. I am CURIOUS about these saws. I am nearly trying to get a feel for what the real world difference would be (15 amp vs. 13 amp). And am in no way willing to be hoisted by my own Pitard regarding Delta maryterdom.

Sheeeeesh......I would have thought the title here would have been enough to indicate the hypothetical nature of my query. This thread was purely for curiosity satisfaction.

I suppose though, that my question has been answered. Twice. Just not what I had expected is all.

I thank you both for your responses.

Question/query/hypothetical ....... Withdrawn.

John, unfortunately motor current is somewhat meaningless in determining how powerful the motor is.

A 15 ampere motor may be a low power factor, low efficiency motor and make less output power than a 12 ampere high power factor, high efficiency motor.

You really need to know the power output in watts or HP to evaluate which motor is more powerful. The lower current motor could be the more powerful one.

Regards, Rod.

[John McBride]

Rod, thanks! Actually, I ended up with a General International contractors saw. Since I posted this thread a while back, I have enjoyed tuning the GI saw, and am getting ready to outfit my shop with electricity soon. I'm embarrassed to say, I'm looking at upgrading already to a Grizzly ... Too much is never enough.