Why is it....

[Walt Quadrato]

that drum sanders cost so much? I could really use/want/need/covet one of these things but I can't afford the $$. They're close to the cost of my bandsaw or tablesaw. Isn't there room for an entry level drum sander out there?

[Carl Eyman]

Klinspor has one that will do certain jobs really well. It's in their catalog. I saw it demonstrated by its inventor at a show. I forget how wide it is - maybe 16". If you tried to sand 2 sides of a panel of 32" you'd probably see the line. Take a close look. I think it is overpriced at about $450, but you can buy it without the motor and It'll cost something like $125 less. You've probably got motors around or can find a yard sale beaut that'll do. I'm sure you'll want to try before you buy.

[Jim Becker]

Originally posted by Walt Quadrato
that drum sanders cost so much? I could really use/want/need/covet one of these things but I can't afford the $$. They're close to the cost of my bandsaw or tablesaw. Isn't there room for an entry level drum sander out there?

You really, really don't want an "inexpensive" drum sander...even the "regular priced" units require a lot of care and feeding for consistant performance. Performax does have a small 10" unit available now (20" with two passes), but I don't know of anyone who has used/reviewed it yet.

Also, be sure you understand what these things do well and what they really are not well suited for. They are not for major thicknessing of boards like a planer is, although you can certainly use them for that function if time is no object and you don't need to take off a lot of material. They are designed to take glued up panels and similar objects and smooth them to the same thickness more quickly than you can by manual methods. But they are not "finish" sanders. Further, they are not good for grits higher than about 120-150 due to loading and burning. If you don't do a lot of work that can really use the capability of a drum sander, your money may be better invested on other tools.

[Scott Coffelt]

I bought the Ryobi WDS1600 for $299 a few years back. I really could not afford the Performix ($799), though it is a better unit. However, the Ryobi has worked very well and produces nice results. It is used for its intended purpose only. I have planer for removing large amounts of wood. It can only handle 12", so I rough boards down. Glue them up and scrap clean and then I run them through the Ryobi to finish them off. I can run with the glue on, but I find the belts can get gummed up and become useless. Even with a belt cleaner.

You can still find new Ryobi's or at least reconditioned ones. I know Cummins Tools in Kansas City still carries them.

The only things I do not like about it are: belt changing can be a chore at times and the belt motor can not go to 0, so sometimes it is still a little fast.

Both units use the same size paper, I was linky and found rolls for $2/each locally and stocked up and the grits I use.

[Walt Quadrato]

Carl, I've seen the Kingspoor demoed and it is close to what I'd go for..got a few 1-1.5 hp motors kicking around. Jim, I understand the limitations of the machine but I'd need it to do about what Scott uses his for. just minor "touch up" work not anything heavy duty like dimensioning. It just seems with the price of a planer and the cost of a 6" jointer; that someone would still sell a moderately priced drum sander. When you get over the $500 mark for a piece of equipment(TS,BS) it seems that a sander fits into the planer/jointer range. unless I'm missing something in the technology department it doesn't seem to be anymore complicated than my delta planer. maybe it's the fact that demand for these isn't as great as planers/jointers etc... but then if they were cheaper more people would consider the buy. Scott, I'm going to keep my eye out for the Ryobi. thanks!

[Jim Becker]

Originally posted by Walt Quadrato
When you get over the $500 mark for a piece of equipment(TS,BS) it seems that a sander fits into the planer/jointer range. unless I'm missing something in the technology department it doesn't seem to be anymore complicated than my delta planer.


While I understand your thoughts, I'll point out that many folks have a "wonderful" time getting these drum sanders to work consistently and reliably, particularly one of the two primary brands...just watch the tool forums for owner's comments. You have two motors...one for the drum and one for the stock feed. The drums need very careful adjustment to insure they are parallel to the feed platen and sometime that requires regular attention. Many folks have "fun" keeping the stock feed belt tracking, too. These are definitely more complicated tools mechanically than your planer!

I'm not trying to discourage you from one of these machines, especially since I'd like to have one myself. I'm only pointing out that the cost is reflective of something about the tool and I don't feel it's in any way based on popularity...Peformax sells a lot of these machines, as do other vendors. You want a real "better be sitting down price"? Check out TimeSaver! :D

[Ron Meadows]

Jim,

I noticed that you had "wonderful" in quotes. No kidding. I bought a Performax 16/32 about 6 months ago and it is without doubt the dumbest thing that I ever spent a penny on. This thing has been adjusted using every method save witchcraft and it still won't sand a panel flat. Wait a minute, I must take that back. I can set it up to sand a 4" piece flat then if I try to sand something near it's 16" capacity forget it. The reverse situation is true as well. I really, really wish I had saved for a while longer and bought a closed end machine.

For all the heartache and nagging from loml this thing has caused I'd practically give it to someone.

Ron

[William Parks]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ron Meadows
[B]Jim,

This thing has been adjusted using every method save witchcraft and it still won't sand a panel flat.

For all the heartache and nagging from loml this thing has caused I'd practically give it to someone.


I thought I was the only one who felt this about the 16/32. IMHO certainly not worth the money I paid for it and I purchased mine used.

William

[Dave Avery]

The amazing thing is that I think Jim was referring to the "other" major brand of machine. The Performax stuff is usually well reviewed..... Dave.

[Jim Becker]

Originally posted by Dave Avery
The amazing thing is that I think Jim was referring to the "other" major brand of machine. The Performax stuff is usually well reviewed..... Dave.

Correctamundo, Mr. Dave! :D

[Bruce Page]

Originally posted by Ron Meadows
I can set it up to sand a 4" piece flat then if I try to sand something near it's 16" capacity forget it.
Ron,

How much out of flat do you get on a 16” board, and how heavy of a cut are you taking? I spent about 4 hours just dialing in the cast iron table to the drum on my 18/36 Delta. I was able to set the table/ drum parallelism to within .002 over the full 18”. I still get about .010 -.015 of side taper on a 16” board when I’m taking heavy cuts due to the head deflecting, but when I let it “spark off” by taking several finish passes without adjustment, I end up with less than .005 side taper.

On my Delta, one full turn on the hand wheel equals .062 or 1/16”. When I say “heavy cuts”, I’m talking only ¼ to ½ of a turn on the wheel or .015 - .031 depth of cut. On my finish pass, I will take less than ¼ of a turn on the wheel.

Due to the open design, it does not take much to deflect the head.

Welcome to the Academy Awards - or, as they're known at my house, Passover. -- Bob Hope, who is 100 years old today

[Bart Leetch]

For those that are having problem with Performax 16/32s go to this site it may help.


http://home.pacbell.net/jdismuk/performax.html

[Ron Meadows]

Bart,

I added Dizzy's adjustment nuts and it didn't help. It made settign the drum parallel to the feed table easier but did absolutely nothing for the drum flex.

I've tried running multiple passes with thin amounts of material removal and it won't sand flat. I can grab the end of the drum with my hand and easily flex it over 1/4". I really wish that I had done a more thorough evaluation before spending my money on this %&#$%

Now I'm stuck with something taking up room in my shop collecting dust that I have to get rid of (which I'm having a hard time doing with a clear conscience) before I can buy a replacement.

Ron

[Kevin Post]

I agree that the price of these things seems a little out of hand. However, if you consider what the thing does and how it's built and engineered, you can begin to understand the high price.

Like any tool, there is skill involved in making it work properly. Adjust it properly. Don't try to remove too much material. Get to know how it works and accomodate any idiosyncrasies when you use it. I have a Delta 18/36 which has performed well. I have no complaints and have had no trouble getting it adjusted. I've sliced up boards on the bandsaw and used it to make my own veneer.

Back to the price issue... There are Neanders out there who spend $200-$300 (or more) for a single plane. Heck, when you figure raw materials alone a drum sander should cost at least 10 times that... :D By most accounts, they also require a noteworthy amount of 'futzing' to keep them performing well. Since I couldn't plane a board to within 1/16" of uniform flatness much less 1/1000" no matter how much I tried, in my hands one of those fine planes would be nearly worthless and a terrible investment.

Do I think my drum sander was worth the $$$? Definately...

-Kevin

[Keith Outten]

Walt,

Drum sanders are unique in that the price is not the main issue, spending more will often buy you less. The quality of drum sanders varies more than any tool I have ever seen. I have an older Grizzly 24" dual drum sander...probably about ten years old now. I hope that Grizzly has improved this machine as I have never been happy with the performance. It does have lots of power and the machine is very heavy.

As with many drum sanders the problems often start with improperly designed clips that hold the sandpaper to the drums. The second area that is often a problem is an accurate means or poorly designed method of adjusting the drums parallel to the table. Since we all have different ideas of what a drum sander should be we often disagree as to the quality of our machines. When you hear someone who is satisfied with their sander it is most likely that they chose wisely and purchased a sander that fits the kind of work they do most often.

Some woodworkers seem to be more interested in accuracy and some performance. I think it would be great to find a machine that could provide both but it is unlikely until someone comes up with a more innovative design.

My $0.02 - Of all the sanders I have seen at woodworking shows I like the Delta 18/36. My neighbor purchased one three months ago and is absolutely satisfied. I really like the way the Delta sander is constructed and it probably is better suited to my woodworking needs than the larger dual drum sander I purchased. I would suggest that you TRY before you BUY when considering a drum sander.

[Earl Reid]

Walt,
I have had my Perfomax 16/32 since they first came on the market. I spent alot of time setting up , and re set it about 3 yrs ago. I allowed for the sag in the drum. I use 100 grit paper. Usually I sand down about 1/16 to finish size. I have made several panels upto about 28-30" and have not had any problem.
I have just finised the second blanket chest in the past 3 months. I went out and measured the last lid. One end was .737 and .736 on left end ,.741 and .740 in the middle, .738 and .739 on the right end. I also always turn the panels each pass. and turn it down about 1/6 th turn every 2 passes. I use pencil lines as I run them thru. 90% 0f use is cherry. Also 90% of use is less than 10" wide and 30 " long . I wouldn't be without it
Good sanding
Earl:)

[Mark Kauder]

If you are interested in building your own drum sanders like klingspor is selling, there are a few places to get drums up to 30" wide.

http://www.stockroomsupply.com/VSander.asp

Mark

[Patrick Lee Hiatt]

I have had a delta 18/36 for a few years and it performed well.
I just got home yesterday with a new Woodmaster drum sander,
that I will be unpacking today. The delta had worked great it was just slow. The delta does leave noticeable sanding marks in hard maple even with the grain at 120 grit. If I could get hard maple to plane tear out free always through the planer I would not use the drum sander because it does take a while to sand out the sanding marks. I hope the woodmaster with the 6"drum
and velcro will leave less marks on Maple.

[Mike Evertsen]

I have the delta,,,I use as it was designed for sanding not planing or thicknessing or to flaten boards I don't remove alot of material at a time about a 1/4 turn per pass and clean the belt a few times on long runs,,
other than the bottom belt tracking off and having to be adjusted
it works well for me,,,

[Bob Daun]

I am one of the Shopsmith owners and I built a thickness sander for my shopsmith following the plans in Nick Engler's book called "Planing and Sanding". It has a 16" drum which is supported on both ends so that is the maximum capacity. The drum itself is made out of 6" schedule 80 (about 1/2" wall thickness) PVC pipe. It doesn't have automatic feed so I have to push the piece through and catch it on the other side. Of course you have to have a "pusher" to get it through under the drum. The feed is from the back side so I am feeding against the rotation of the drum. Mine is powered by my Shopsmith which is nice from the standpoint of built in variable speed control. The plans in the book do show the modifications for either a separate drive motor or the Shopsmith. The total parts cost was about $100. I use it primarily to flatten layers for my segmented bowls prior to gluing them together. I have it set up with 80 grit paper which is fine for my needs. It was kind of a fun project just to build the thing although I don't really use it that often.