Stop Or Through Box Bottom Dados?

[Derek Arita]

When making your dados for a box bottom panel, do you do through dados or stop dados? Just made box for my own use and used box joints on the corners. When I ran the dados for the bottom of the box, I remembered that if I go through, I'd have to plug the hole that's left. Other than doing a stop dado, is there any other way to do a box bottom?

[Jim Matthews]

Stopped dadoes in the front look cleaner.

It could be readily done on your router table.
I work mostly by hand, so it's just a matter
of careful marking out, to end the pass.

http://www.finewoodworking.com/item/113904/how-to-cut-stopped-dadoes-with-a-router-table

[Bob Michaels]

Lee Valley box-slotting bit.

[Charles Lent]

+1 for the Lee Valley box slotting bits. They are small diameter slotting bits. You put one in the router table, temporarily clamp your box together, and run the box around the bit. The small diameter of the bit allows you to only slightly round the corners of the box bottom for a perfect corner fit that's completely hidden, both inside and outside.

Charley

[glenn bradley]

For corner joints that will show a through cut I use a stopped one. Some folks cut plugs for the holes and that works too, its just a bit fussy. My go-to drawer box corner joint is a drawer-lock for this reason; through cuts don't show. For showy corner joinery it is worth the small extra effort for stopped dado's. I use the router table and stop blocks.

[Derek Arita]

+1 for the Lee Valley box slotting bits. They are small diameter slotting bits. You put one in the router table, temporarily clamp your box together, and run the box around the bit. The small diameter of the bit allows you to only slightly round the corners of the box bottom for a perfect corner fit that's completely hidden, both inside and outside.

Charley
Thanks for the tip. I went right to their site and placed an order for the set. Not cheap, but I'm hoping it will give an easy solution to box bottom corners. I'm assuming you preassemble, cut the slots, then glue up with bottom panel in place?

[Bob Grier]

I use box joint on drawers, front and back. I through dado the 4 drawer sides for the drawer bottom and they do not show when assembled. Here is picture of joint on plywood shop cabinet drawer. You can see that the dado will be hidden by each of the sides when assembled.

302319

[Bill Huber]

I use box joint on drawers, front and back. I through dado the 4 drawer sides for the drawer bottom and they do not show when assembled. Here is picture of joint on plywood shop cabinet drawer. You can see that the dado will be hidden by each of the sides when assembled.

302319

I am missing something here, that is a really nice looking joint, tight and clean but is that a box joint.
I can see how the dado is hidden in that joint.

[glenn bradley]

I use box joint on drawers, front and back. I through dado the 4 drawer sides for the drawer bottom and they do not show when assembled. Here is picture of joint on plywood shop cabinet drawer. You can see that the dado will be hidden by each of the sides when assembled.

302319


I am missing something here, that is a really nice looking joint, tight and clean but is that a box joint.
I can see how the dado is hidden in that joint.

Bob,

That is a drawer-lock or lock-rabbet joint. This is the joint I mentioned in my post and as Bob points out, through grooves are a non-issue with this joint. The Lee Valley box-bottom router bits did not do as well as I would have liked. I initially got a lot of tearout issues. A couple of things can reduce or eliminate this. Use a wheel gauge or something to scribe the outside lines of the slot to be made (tedious but acceptable on small decorative boxes) or be sure the box bottom is flat and even to assure a straight path past the bit.

Little overhangs of parts or irregularities of the reference surface (the box bottom) yield sub-optimal results with this method. This is not exclusive to the Lee Valley bits, any slot bit will tearout if the feed path is irregular. The LV bits are a smaller diameter than most and therefor tuck nicely into the corners when doing this operation.

[Bob Grier]

Bill and Glenn are correct. The joint I use is not a box joint. I was mistaken. However, it is a joint that I use for drawers; it is fast, provides some locking for strength, and can be used with plywood as well as solid wood. Because I don't make lots of drawers, it is difficult to remember how to set up the bit, mostly because I have difficulty understanding how the height and fence adjustments affect the results. Once set up, it is fast.

302363

[Derek Arita]

I use box joint on drawers, front and back. I through dado the 4 drawer sides for the drawer bottom and they do not show when assembled. Here is picture of joint on plywood shop cabinet drawer. You can see that the dado will be hidden by each of the sides when assembled.

302319
Yeah but...I was wondering about dado bottoms with box joints, not lock joints.

[Derek Arita]

Bob,

That is a drawer-lock or lock-rabbet joint. This is the joint I mentioned in my post and as Bob points out, through grooves are a non-issue with this joint. The Lee Valley box-bottom router bits did not do as well as I would have liked. I initially got a lot of tearout issues. A couple of things can reduce or eliminate this. Use a wheel gauge or something to scribe the outside lines of the slot to be made (tedious but acceptable on small decorative boxes) or be sure the box bottom is flat and even to assure a straight path past the bit.

Little overhangs of parts or irregularities of the reference surface (the box bottom) yield sub-optimal results with this method. This is not exclusive to the Lee Valley bits, any slot bit will tearout if the feed path is irregular. The LV bits are a smaller diameter than most and therefor tuck nicely into the corners when doing this operation.
Really? The LV bits don't work that great? Bummer...mine are in the mail.

[Mike Henderson]

+1 for the Lee Valley box slotting bits. They are small diameter slotting bits. You put one in the router table, temporarily clamp your box together, and run the box around the bit. The small diameter of the bit allows you to only slightly round the corners of the box bottom for a perfect corner fit that's completely hidden, both inside and outside.

Charley
+1 That's the way I do it. I even use a bigger slotting bit and trim the corners by hand with a chisel.

Mike

[Charles Lent]

Derek,

Don't panic before the bits arrive. Some of the other posters haven't tried these bits and don't know how good they work. Because of their small diameter these bits will cut a slot with a tight radius in the corner of the box. The slot won't show from the inside or the outside of the box. You cut your bottom to fit the dimensions of the slot and then just slightly round the corners and it will fit the slot perfectly. The corners of the bottom will be completely hidden by the box sides. This is the only way I put bottoms in small boxes now. A larger diameter slotting bit won't cut the slot all the way into the corners and chisel work will be necessary to extend the slots and get the bottom to fit into the corners. These Lee Valley bits are small enough in diameter that they can cut all the way to the box corner so their slotting radius is inside the boards at the corner of the box. You then only have to match this radius on the corners of the box bottom for it to fit perfectly and be completely hidden.

Wait for the bits. You will be very happy the first time you use one of them.

Charley

[Derek Arita]

Derek,

Don't panic before the bits arrive. Some of the other posters haven't tried these bits and don't know how good they work. Because of their small diameter these bits will cut a slot with a tight radius in the corner of the box. The slot won't show from the inside or the outside of the box. You cut your bottom to fit the dimensions of the slot and then just slightly round the corners and it will fit the slot perfectly. The corners of the bottom will be completely hidden by the box sides. This is the only way I put bottoms in small boxes now. A larger diameter slotting bit won't cut the slot all the way into the corners and chisel work will be necessary to extend the slots and get the bottom to fit into the corners. These Lee Valley bits are small enough in diameter that they can cut all the way to the box corner so their slotting radius is inside the boards at the corner of the box. You then only have to match this radius on the corners of the box bottom for it to fit perfectly and be completely hidden.

Wait for the bits. You will be very happy the first time you use one of them.

Charley

Thanks Charley. Sounds like you have a lot of experience with these bits, so I'll take your word for it. Kind of a dumb question, but I suppose you need to do a glueless mock assembly to cut the dados? Once the dados are cut, the glue up can be done, with box bottoms in place...am I right with that sequence?

[Charles Lent]

Yes, assemble the 4 sides of the box with no glue and no bottom, use a strap clamp or whatever to hold it together. Put the bit in the router table and set the height. Then place your box on the table with the router bit sticking up inside the box. Turn on the router and move the box around the router bit to cut the slot for the bottom (make sure you go the correct way - don't climb cut). Do a second pass all the way around to be sure you have cut the slot to the correct depth all the way around. When the slot is complete look closely it where it goes around the corners. You will see a radius that is the 1/2 the diameter of the bit diameter inside the slot corners. Make the bottom the correct size to fit into the slots and round the corners of the box bottom to the radius of the router bit. Dry assemble the box with the bottom in place. The box bottom should now fit perfectly with none of the slot or the edge of the box bottom visible from the inside or the outside of the box. If it fits properly, you can go ahead with the box glue-up. I think you will be very happy with the result.

I've made a lot of boxes in my life, using many different methods of attaching the bottoms and the tops. I've only had the Lee Valley bits for about 4 years and haven't made a box any other way since getting them. I never fully glue the bottoms, just apply a bit at the center of each box side to keep it from rattling and avoid any possible problems from humidity changes, but there likely wouldn't be a problem if you use plywood for the bottom anyway. You can use the same method for attaching the top too. I have made solid wood tops with a rabbet all the way around them so they fit the slot and are flush with the top surface of the box sides. If you do this, don't glue the top all the way around, just do the center of each side.

Charley

[Derek Arita]

Thanks Charley. Good idea on the tops. I'll use that one. Thanks again.

[Charles Lent]

Derek,

Please add to this post after you have made your first box using the Lee Valley router bits.

Charley

[Derek Arita]

Will do. They are supposed to arrive just after Xmas. Can't wait to try them out.

[Derek Arita]

What's the round plastic insert piece for that's included with each bit?