shooting board

[Gerry S. Wojtowicz]

Just a quick question about shooting boards. I will be using one to square up the top and bottom rails to the stiles of a drawer front.

My question is this. Assuming I am able to get a square rail, how is it possible to be certain the two rail that will make up the drawer front will be trimmed to the exact same length using a shooting board. No matter how squrare they are, if they are not the same length, all bets are off.

Thank you in advance for your comments.

[Andrew Hughes]

The best way I have found is to set them next each other and feel with tips of my fingers.

[Tom M King]

At a thousandth of an inch per pass, there are any number of ways to do it, including just feeling the two back to back.

[Tom M King]

Funny that we posted exactly the same thing, at the same time.

[Andrew Hughes]

Ya what a trip we said the same thing two different ways.:)

[Gerry S. Wojtowicz]

Tom and Andrew,

Duh! Of course. What was I thinking.

Thank you.

[Pat Barry]

Another option would be to put a stop block or stop adjustment on the shooting board

[Jerry Thompson]

I count the passes and make sure each one has the same number of cuts. It takes only a whisper of wood to square them if they were cut reasonably well at the outset.

[Reinis Kanders]

You can also use a knife line for the reference. Shoot board A, shoot one end of the board B, line them up and knife the line on board B from A.

[Sean Reilly]

For something like this, I would place one on top of the other. That way when you do your first end, you'll know it's flush when you flip them to do the other end. You could even tape them together to make sure they don't slip.

[Daniel Rode]

This is what I do. They're within .001 if I can't feel any difference with my fingers.

The best way I have found is to set them next each other and feel with tips of my fingers.

[Jim Koepke]

The best way I have found is to set them next each other and feel with tips of my fingers.

Like Andrew and Daniel, this method works for me for many projects.

jtk

[Gerry S. Wojtowicz]

Thank you all for your input. My problem now is this: I cannot seem to get the shooting board to function properly. I'm sure it's me. I'm new to using hand planes.

I'm using a Lee Valley low angle smoothing plane, but I can't get any shavings. As nearly as I can tell everything is square.

Is there a technique to pushing the wood into the plane, or is it the setting of the plane? I understand this is a difficult question to answer, but any suggestions would be appreciated.

[David Weaver]

If it's sharp, it should cut if the wood projects past the end of the chute board. You have to work a technique where you hold the wood steady while you're cutting it and then advance it slightly right after the cut.

It should cut easily, though. I would check the length of the resulting boards (in terms of matching) by standing them on end next to each other. that eliminates the need to line up the first end and check whether or not it has moved. I'm not sure how much leeway you have before you cause a problem with a drawer and joining and squareness, etc, but I'll bet you don't have to be that precise. More important that the dovetails are joined squarely. It's unlikely that you will work all of the baselines within a few thousandths of an inch when you're joining the drawers.

[Jim Koepke]

Thank you all for your input. My problem now is this: I cannot seem to get the shooting board to function properly. I'm sure it's me. I'm new to using hand planes.

I'm using a Lee Valley low angle smoothing plane, but I can't get any shavings. As nearly as I can tell everything is square.

Is there a technique to pushing the wood into the plane, or is it the setting of the plane? I understand this is a difficult question to answer, but any suggestions would be appreciated.

This is where having pictures helps to see what is happening.

For me, getting the plane set up is done first using a piece of scrap. Most of the time the blade has to be set to a heavier cut on end grain than on edge grain. YMMV

The piece to be worked gets chamfered on the corner on the edge that goes against the fence. This is usually done on both ends of the piece using the same side to hold against the fence.

With the plane set on the shooting board ramp and the blade behind the edge of the work piece, the piece is then positioned to rest on the toe of the plane's sole. Hold the piece being worked firmly and push the plane forward in a way that has it firmly on the ramp and registered against the base of the work platform. Repeat as needed.

jtk

[Jerry Thompson]

Jim has the main point, as far as I am concerned, the work piece must touch the plane toe the take your cut. It soon becomes automatic, hear the wood click against the plane then move the plane forward to make the cut.
I went through great angst before I accidently found it out and the light went off because it makes sense.

[Mike Holbrook]

Which LV Smooth plane are you using? The wide body BUS Smoother is not made to be used for shooting. The sides are not designed for it. The two smaller Low-Angle Smooth Planes and the Low-Angle Jack Plane are popular for shooting. If you look at the Low-Angle/Bevel Up plane pictures on the LV web site the difference in the sides is clear.

[Gerry S. Wojtowicz]

Mike, I believe this is the plane I am using: http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=45864&cat=1,41182,52515
Jim, I'll try to provide pictures tomorrow. I understand, or think I do, the concept of butting the piece to be planed against the toe of the planes's sole. It almost seems to me that the plane is forced away from the wood as I try to plane through it. Would it help, I wonder, to have the plane ride in a trough that would not allow it to move away from the wood as it is moving through the wood.

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Gerry

Simple solution to your problem - add a fence to guide the plane and keep it tight against the sidewall of the platform ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/RunningFencefortheShootingBoard_html_27c06340.jpg

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/RunningFencefortheShootingBoard_html_m44e5a6e3.jpg

Link: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/RunningFencefortheShootingBoard.html

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Robert Hazelwood]

The fence for the plane is a good idea, but you should be able to make this work without that. I would first make sure that the plane iron is set correctly- clamp a board vertically in the vise and take end-grain shavings until you get the thinnest, full-width shaving you can. The iron will need to be good and sharp to do this. Then, make sure that the shooting board's fence is not sticking out too far into the path of the plane, by taking some passes with just the fence (no work piece) and make sure that the plane is not trying to cut the fence. If that were happening the plane will not sit flush against the side-wall, and might cause it not to cut the work piece.

With all that settled, make sure you are holding the plane around the side wings where the iron is, not at the back end by the handle (check out the picture on the Veritas page you linked). As you're shooting, you need to apply pressure down on the track the plane runs on, and pressure laterally into the sidewall of the shooting board- you can't do the latter very well if you are holding the plane at the back (unless you have an auxiliary fence like Derek shows). I like to wax all of the running surfaces to make everything work smoother.

Then, if your plane is sharp and set correctly, the iron should actually pull the plane into the work a little bit, rather than push itself away. You may need to take a slightly thicker shaving than you would if you were just planing in the vise, but not necessarily. You set the cut for each pass, as others have said, by holding the plane tight to the sidewall of the shooting board and then butting the end of the work piece against the toe of the plane, ahead of the blade. That will set it to project by about one shaving's thickness. If you move the work piece farther out than that, the plane would be forced away from the sidewall and you might get the results you're seeing.

Good luck.

[Robert Hazelwood]

Also, if you continue to have trouble, try an easier piece. Take a thin scrap piece and try to shoot the end of that. Something a 1/4" thick or less. If your setup is correct at all you should be able to work with that nicely, and develop a feel for what's going on. Then graduate to the bigger pieces, which take a bit more muscle.

[Gerry S. Wojtowicz]

Derek. I will probably end up adding a fence like yours to my shooting board, but I also think Robert is correct; I should be able to get this to work without a fence. Ideally I would find someone here in Connecticut who could give me lessons in the use of shooting boards. Failing that I will have to practice, practice, practice and get as much help as I can from Sawmill Creek woodworkers.

Robert, I will print out your instructions and take them into my shop and begin the practice sessons.

Thank you all.

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Robert

Here is an extract from an article I wrote on shooting. It uses the LAJ, however the LAS is almost the same ...

The correct way (in my opinion) of holding the LAJ (and shooting planes generally), is to exert downforce at a central point while simultaneously exerting low lateral sideforce. One must not attempt to simply push the plane against the sidewall to the shooting board. This will unbalance the plane and cause it to cant over.



http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/ShootingPlanesCompared_html_309f013.jpg

Downforce is applied by the thumb directly into the dimpled fingerhole. Sideforce is applied by the four fingertips pushing from under the levercap.

This handhold is quite comfortable and makes the LAJ a practical user without a hotdog. Indeed, there is the potential for someone to grasp a hotdog (whether on the LV or LN LAJ planes) and attempt to push it against the fence from high (and not use their fingers to maintain sideways pressure from low).

Contributing to “tippiness” is the amount of “run up” to the board that is used. Many – both experienced and novices alike – would draw the plane back to the start of the runway, and then push it forward fast in an attempt to create momentum, as if this was necessary to power through the end grain. Shooting in this manner would lead to user losing control of the plane.

What is necessary for control is minimum run up. Place the plane with the blade nearly touching the near edge of the board, and then simply push the plane forward, with even pressure and firmly. Since the shaving removed is very fine, a plane with a sharp blade will cut without much effort.

Hope this helps.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Robert Hazelwood]

That's a good clarification, Derek. The only place on the plane that should contact the sidewall is the 1/4" or less strip at the bottom between the corner of the mouth and edge of the sole. Above that area, the plane iron will cut a shallow rabbet in the sidewall that will appear from above like a small gap between the sidewall and plane sole. I noticed when showing my girlfriend how to use the shooting board that she instinctively wanted to close that gap, so she was pushing laterally up high and causing it to cant. That little gap needs to be there!

[Jim Matthews]

I got some instruction from Tico Vogt on proper shooting technique.

Nothing works, unless the plane iron is genuinely sharp.
If the blade is sharp, lean into the cut rather than
rapidly moving the plane across the end.

This keeps things registered; the blade drives the board
away from itself, unless you keep it pinned to the back
end of the shooting board.

If you move fast, the workpiece will naturally want to move
away from the blade. If you move slower, the blade
expends the lateral energy in a shearing force.

The thing I concentrate on is keeping the side of the plane body firmly
down against the shooting board "runner" - otherwise I tend to overcut
the board at an angle other than 90 degrees to the top surface.
(I haven't cut with a donkey's ear, yet - all my miters are perpendicular to the top face of the shooting board.)

I've had good results with most any plane, so long as the workpiece is held securely.
(Clamp it if you're not sure, or apply some sandpaper to the backstop for more grip.)

If the cut feels sluggish, or drags - wax the sole and "down" side of the plane.

Pictures of your rig might help.

Start with a freshly sharpened blade, on your next attempt,
to eliminate at least one variable.

[Gerry S. Wojtowicz]

Downforce is applied by the thumb directly into the dimpled fingerhole. Sideforce is applied by the four fingertips pushing from under the levercap.

This handhold is quite comfortable and makes the LAJ a practical user without a hotdog. Indeed, there is the potential for someone to grasp a hotdog (whether on the LV or LN LAJ planes) and attempt to push it against the fence from high (and not use their fingers to maintain sideways pressure from low).

Derek,

I'm not too sure how the fingers push from "under" the levercap. (This is another instance where a picture would be invaluable). Additionally, I don't know what the term "hotdog' refers to.
I do generally understand how downward and lateral pressure is required to properly shoot a board.
Once again, I'll supply pictures later today and try out some the suggestions mentioned here.

[Gerry S. Wojtowicz]

Derek,

I notice your shooting board is angled down. Does this design make it easier to shoot a board. It would seem to me that the plane would not have to plane the entire surface of the board all at once, perhaps making the shooting process easier.

[Jim Koepke]

I'm not too sure how the fingers push from "under" the levercap. (This is another instance where a picture would be invaluable). Additionally, I don't know what the term "hotdog' refers to.

I think Derek may have meant his fingers push against the lever cap. (it is kind of on the underside of where the thumb rests) My fingertips touch/rest on the lever cap when I am shooting.

In Derek's first post, with the fence to guide the plane, the big wooden thing attached to the plane is referred to as a hot dog. It makes it more comfortable in use.

Here is his write up on making one:

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/A%20Hotdog%20for%20the%20LV%20LAJ1.html

jtk

[Gerry S. Wojtowicz]

Thanks Jim. I thought that he meant he was pushing against the lever cap.
What keeps that hotdog in place? Just a presssure fit? Seems like it would slide off, even with downward pressure.

[Jim Koepke]

What keeps that hotdog in place? Just a presssure fit? Seems like it would slide off, even with downward pressure.

My recollection is that Derek used a set screw in his.

My first one was made before seeing Derek's build:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?130114-Shooting-Board-Plane

My first attempt was to have a more vertical handle. My main concern was this setup might cause damage to the side of the plane.

My later attempt further down in the thread has the hot dog pressing against the back of the frog. It still gets used occasionally on one of my Stanley/Bailey planes when a slightly wider blade is needed.

Once you discover the technique and benefits of shooting, you will want to have a hot dog on your plane to help with control and comfort. Check out Derek's website. It has a lot of great ideas and shares many techniques that will help you with your work.

jtk

[Gerry S. Wojtowicz]

Check out Derek's website. It has a lot of great ideas and shares many techniques that will help you with your work.

jtk

Thanks Jim. I'll check it out this weekend.

[Derek Cohen]

Thanks Jim. I thought that he meant he was pushing against the lever cap.
What keeps that hotdog in place? Just a presssure fit? Seems like it would slide off, even with downward pressure.

Thanks Jim for the kind words.

Gerry, there are two articles on making a hotdog for a shooter, specifically for a LA Veritas plane.

The first is a handtool only method: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/A%20Hotdog%20for%20the%20LV%20LAJ1.html

The second requires an assortment of power tools: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/Building%20the%20Hotdog%20Mk%20II%20for%20the%20LV %20LA%20Jack%20pics.html

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Gerry S. Wojtowicz]

Well,

I tried repeatedly to upload an image of my shooting board without success. Can anyone tell me what the secret is?

Derek, thanks for the links. I'll check them out.

[Mike Holbrook]

Gerry,
Look for the icon for linking a picture at top of posting area. You should get a small screen that will let you choose an image from your computer. You may have to resize your image, if it is too big it want load.

[Jim Koepke]

Well,

I tried repeatedly to upload an image of my shooting board without success. Can anyone tell me what the secret is?

Derek, thanks for the links. I'll check them out.

Gerry,

How far did you get in your attempt to upload an image?

If you got through the menu to the upload point and had a problem, it may be as Mike suggested, the file is too big. You may need to convert it to a .jpg file or a .png. I am not sure how big of a file the vBulletin software can handle before it chokes.

If that isn't the problem, here is something I posted a few years ago that may help:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?167711-posting-photos-as-of-June-2011

There are some omissions of the finer points. When a new post is created the paperclip is in the selection of icons available above the text window:

302052

When replying to a post, double click the reply button and you will have a composition page with the paperclip included icon.

The current window is a bit different than the old uploader:

302053

When this window appears, select Add Files. The choose file and + Upload menu will open. After you have navigated to the file you want to upload you can click the + to choose a second file or you can upload the single file.

302054

If you look in the text below you will see the === highlighted (grayed out in the image) selecting "Insert Inline" will replace the === with the image or images in the lower section with checks in the boxes.

Hope this helps,

jtk

[David B. Morris]

As with practically any other aspect of woodworking, I also found Derek's site very helpful when I built my shooting board. I made mine with teak plywood, purple heart, and padauk. It ended up being a bit Frank-Lloyd-Wrightish. I use the LN low angle jack with their hot-dog attachment for shooting.
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