Helix cutter head

[David Ragan]

Hi,

I am asking for the the helix cutterhead for my DeWalt 735 for Christmas.

On Amazon, they have one from Byrd Tool for about $435; and another by Grizzly for $100 less it says made in America.

Anyone have any advice? If there is going to be an issue for occasional use, I would just as soon go ahead and spend a little extra.

It supposed to be a lot quieter, also looks like the blade changes may be cheaper.

Thanks!

[Matt Day]

I think Holbren is blowing the Byrds out right now for $375 shipped. Check it out on WN.

[John Schweikert]

What's WN?

Holbren website shows the Shelix for DW735 at $410.

I've never seen a Grizzly branded segmented cutter for that Dewalt. Grizzly does sell Byrd Shelix heads though just like Holbren.

I've had these on my radar as well and been checking prices regularly during the holiday time.

[Earl McLain]

I'd be a buyer of the Byrd head over the Grizzly (in fairness, i never used the Griz), though i did buy my Byrd from Grizzly's web site using a 10% off coupon last summer. Grizzly is asking $430 for the Byrd for the DW 735 right now. Bryan (or Brian?) at Holbren does a great job with service for a small retailer and is a fair guy to deal with. If you can wait until whenever Grizzly does another 10% off coupon (and if prices don't rise between now and then), you might save a few dollars. Since i put mine on and have used it--i'd not be patient enought to wait if i had to do it again, i'd just do it.

I believe WN might be WoodNet. Can't say for sure.

I like mine. Good luck.
earl

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Earl....so why is it fair to make that statement if you have never used one?

I have a Grizzly jointer with their spiral head on it. It has worked well.

[Michael Heffernan]

Give Brian, at Holbren a call. He has excess inventory of Byrd heads for the DW735 for $375, delivered. Bearings are already pressed on. That's the cheapest I've ever seen them.
And yes, WN is Woodnet. Another woodworking forum. Brian posts there as well.

[David Kumm]

Anyone know which head uses the most inserts? Would seem to me to be a factor in the decision. Even if the finish is similar, more inserts should last longer. Dave

[Matt Day]

Sorry, WN=Woodnet. I didnt know if it would violate the rules to mention another forum.

[Mark Kornell]

I think you just did...

[Mark Kornell]

Earl - I have the Byrd head in my DW735 and a Grizzly head in my Grizzly 8" jointer. Subjectively, the surface the jointer leaves is better (flatter across the width) than the planer and requires less additional work to get it ready for finish. That isn't saying that the Byrd head leaves a bad surface - it is quite good. Just that the jointer's head leaves a surface that is a bit better.

David - I can't see where Grizzly offers their own head for that planer. Amazon is probably showing you a head for a different machine. But the Byrd head for a DW735 is worth it - mine has paid for itself in 3 years just through savings on knife changes.

[Earl McLain]

Sorry Ken, meant no offense. Perhaps i should have said that "I chose to be a buyer of the Byrd". My experience with it has been excellent, i'm glad you are pleased with yours as well.

Edit to add--while changing the head went well, i have to say that it was frightening to me to think that i could destroy my planer, the head or both. Given a choice, buying a planer with the helical head installed already would have created a LOT less stress. (i'm glad i had the experience now!!) Further down the thread, Mark Kendall offers his experience between the Grizzly and Byrd on different machines. I've got to agree with him that there is some long term return on knife replacement. I think my straight knives, when brand new, left a little better finish--but that didn't last long. I've probably run 1000 bf across the carbide inserts without rotating and i can't tell that the cut has dropped in quality. I'm sure it has, but i just can't tell.

earl

[Matt Day]

I think you just did...

Because it was mentioned twice already. Do you have anything constructive to add to the thread?

[David Ragan]

This AM, I went back to Amazon, and noticed that the much cheaper Grizzly model was for a 6 inch planer. Geez, glad I did not order that one.

I have never heard anything bad about Grizzly.

It's just so often the case that you get what you pay for-in this case would have been a 6 inch head instead of 13.

I put in my request just now for the cutter head, with information about Brian @ Holbren for $375. Amazon is $438

[Matt Day]

glad you found out now and not when a 6" cutter head showed up at your doorstep!

I hope Brian has some left.

[David Ragan]

QUOTE=Earl McLain;2345613]
Edit to add--while changing the head went well, i have to say that it was frightening to me to think that i could destroy my planer, the head or both. Given a choice, buying a planer with the helical head installed already would have created a LOT less stress. (i'm glad i had the experience now!!) Further down the thread, Mark Kendall offers his experience between the Grizzly and Byrd on different machines. I've got to agree with him that there is some long term return on knife replacement. I think my straight knives, when brand new, left a little better finish--but that didn't last long. I've probably run 1000 bf across the carbide inserts without rotating and i can't tell that the cut has dropped in quality. I'm sure it has, but i just can't tell.

earl[/QUOTE]

I have no idea how to go about this....it is not just a simple change out?

Can you direct to where I can proper technical information about how to change it out?

(Also, my 8" Jet jointer has a tendency to give rippled surface. I just slow way down, and am too lazy to sharpen or change the blades. I guess the Shelix head is available for my jointer too....)

[John Schweikert]

There are youtube videos showing the head swap for the dw735. It's not simple and requires a fair amount of disassembly. But many owners have done it.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Sorry, WN=Woodnet. I didnt know if it would violate the rules to mention another forum.


I think you just did...

Guys....you can mention other forums....I mention OWWM all the time when referring people there for advice on old wood working machines....You just cannot LINK to other forums.

[Earl McLain]

Byrd has an excellent write-up on their web site, step-by-step for the 735. Disassembly is pretty straight forward, and re assembly was not bad. The fear for me came in driving the head and bearings out and driving the new one in--new territory for me. Mine came with new bearings attached so i didn't have to press them on, might want to ask that question of Brian on his on-hand stock. I did check with a local bearing shop before starting and they had replacements in stock in case i boogered the bearings making the swap, but didn't need to buy them. I also thought real hard about calling one of several people who could have helped, but decided to save that for the second attempt if i needed it.

No matter what helical head you buy, the inserts are very sharp--if you cut a finger you might not know right away so having some cleaning supplies handy might be helpful.
earl

[Michael Heffernan]

I haven't done it to my DW735, but have been contemplating doing so. Doesn't seem too difficult, if you follow the instructions. As others have said, there are videos on youtube, which I've watched. Also, here's step by step illustrated instructions.
http://www.holbren.com/misc/DW735.pdf

[Earl McLain]

Mark--since you have 2 different makes in your shop, if you were doing it again would you prefer that they shared the same inserts? I've broken 2 (my fault, not the cutter's fault) so i see the wisdom of keeping a few spares on hand, just wondering. It's not like they take up a lot of floor space. This whole thread has me thinking about the head on G1182Z jointer. Adding either Byrd or Grizzly head would be nice--but it would cost 1/4 of a brand new G0490X. Selling the 6" gets another 1/4...working on the sales pitch for next year!!
earl

[David Ragan]

Thanks for that link. Haven't look at the YOutube video yet.
Seems pretty straightforward.
You don't need to force the bearings on or need a bearing puller (whatever the tool is that pulls the collar)?

[John Schweikert]

As popular as the Byrd heads are for the DW735, you'd think Dewalt would get a clue and just sell versions with them already installed.

[Michael Heffernan]

You can buy the Byrd head with the bearings already pressed on. Holbren sells them that ways, as other vendors probably do to. I suggest you go that direction. Less hassle.


Thanks for that link. Haven't look at the YOutube video yet.
Seems pretty straightforward.
You don't need to force the bearings on or need a bearing puller (whatever the tool is that pulls the collar)?

[Myk Rian]

I've had a Byrd in my DW735 for several years.
Byrd supplies installation instructions.

[Viking Mountain Tool Works]

I have plenty of the cutterheads for the DW735 in stock for $419. Put that together with the 5% off coupon (SMC1114) for sawmill creek visitors you are down to under $400 with free shipping.
Scott

[Mark Kornell]

Earl - there might be some value in having heads that use the same cutters, but probably not a lot. In the 3 years I've had the heads in the machines, I've only needed to replace 2 inserts in the DeWalt. Jointer, none. They are relatively cheap, not that big of a deal to have 5 or 10 of each on hand.

I agree that the original head with new knives in the DeWalt left a great surface. It started to degrade after about 10 bf, though.

Re: the better surface from the jointer - could be I need to rotate a few inserts in the planer. Usually only do that when there's an obvious nick, just haven't had one in a while.

I found the install for both heads to be pretty straightforward. Instruction sets for both were very clear and easy to follow.

After I cut myself just by taking one of the heads out of the box, I decided to simply remove all inserts before proceeding. That made handling much less hazardous, plus it allowed me to clean the machining oil off the head easily, make sure each seat did not have any debris and properly torque each insert. Take an extra 15 minutes, but I'd recommend it.

[David Ragan]

After I cut myself just by taking one of the heads out of the box, I decided to simply remove all inserts before proceeding. That made handling much less hazardous, plus it allowed me to clean the machining oil off the head easily, make sure each seat did not have any debris and properly torque each insert. Take an extra 15 minutes, but I'd recommend it.

Does the product tech info specify how much torque?

Dan@ Holbren responded via email. Says the DW 735 insert comes with bearings installed. For the Jet 8", its an extra $36 for new bearing, installed.

Am not sure about a price from Holbren yet. I will find out today.

[Cary Falk]

Does the product tech info specify how much torque?


50-55 in-lbs. If you don't have a torque wrench get one of these http://www.harborfreight.com/14-in-drive-click-type-torque-wrench-61277.html. I had to take all of my inserts off after I installed it because I was getting and un even surface. After thoroughly cleaning the head and inserts all was good.

[David Ragan]

50-55 in-lbs. If you don't have a torque wrench get one of these http://www.harborfreight.com/14-in-drive-click-type-torque-wrench-61277.html. I had to take all of my inserts off after I installed it because I was getting and un even surface. After thoroughly cleaning the head and inserts all was good.

That's whats so cool about HF. I just found that tool that have only used one time before. Of course, If I was using it all the time, it would be a SnapOn, Mac, etc.

[David Ragan]

I found the install for both heads to be pretty straightforward. Instruction sets for both were very clear and easy to follow.

After I cut myself just by taking one of the heads out of the box, I decided to simply remove all inserts before proceeding. That made handling much less hazardous, plus it allowed me to clean the machining oil off the head easily, make sure each seat did not have any debris and properly torque each insert. Take an extra 15 minutes, but I'd recommend it.

Mark-Santa brought the head (DW 735) from Holbren. Came with bearings. Install seems pretty straightforward from PDF from this thread.

For clarity-Am I supposed to take off each carbide insert, clean off all the grease, and reinstall @ proper torque?

The rate I do unfamiliar things, will take hours...

Thanks

[Mark Kornell]

That's a super cool gift from Santa!

Yes, remove all the inserts before cleaning and installing the head. Reattach the inserts _after_ the install, if that wasn't fully clear.

It won't add hours to the project.

Two things to note:
- the inserts are fragile if banged together. So don't just throw them in a container. I placed them on a shop towel, separated from each other.
- the inserts have a mark on one corner. Reinstall the inserts so the mark is oriented the same for all. That way you can keep track of which inserts you've rotated, and how many times.

[David Ragan]

It took some time but i got it installed
It is A LOT quieter
HF torque wrench worked fine-shattered 3 inserts tho, even being really careful. When i saw they include 5 spares w it-i thought----uh oh....be careful
it is definately a good idea to take inserts out prior to install
the finish is fine on a sample of walnut....

[Larry Edgerton]

Earl - I have the Byrd head in my DW735 and a Grizzly head in my Grizzly 8" jointer. Subjectively, the surface the jointer leaves is better (flatter across the width) than the planer and requires less additional work to get it ready for finish. That isn't saying that the Byrd head leaves a bad surface - it is quite good. Just that the jointer's head leaves a surface that is a bit better.
..

That is more likely a difference in the diameter of the head rather than the quality of the parts.

[Jack Lemley]

I bought mine from Holbren a couple of years ago and paid $425 I think. $375 is a good price and you will be happy with the cutter head. If are used to taking big bites with your 735 you will need to scale it back a bit with the Shelix as the blades contact the wood all the time. I REALLY like mine!

Jack


This AM, I went back to Amazon, and noticed that the much cheaper Grizzly model was for a 6 inch planer. Geez, glad I did not order that one.

I have never heard anything bad about Grizzly.

It's just so often the case that you get what you pay for-in this case would have been a 6 inch head instead of 13.

I put in my request just now for the cutter head, with information about Brian @ Holbren for $375. Amazon is $438

[Andrew Pitonyak]

It took some time but i got it installed
It is A LOT quieter
HF torque wrench worked fine-shattered 3 inserts tho, even being really careful. When i saw they include 5 spares w it-i thought----uh oh....be careful
it is definately a good idea to take inserts out prior to install
the finish is fine on a sample of walnut....

Excellent, congratulations. Glad that you like it.

[glenn bradley]

Earl....so why is it fair to make that statement if you have never used one?

I have a Grizzly jointer with their spiral head on it. It has worked well.

An all too common practice. "Brand A is better than Brand B even though I haven't used either" is not all that uncommon of a position on some forums either :o. Years back I got to run a Grizzly jointer with a Byrd head right next to a Grizzly jointer with a Grizzly head. Couldn't tell them apart. All that being said, I also could not find a Grizzly branded spiral head for the DW735 :confused:

[Larry Edgerton]

He did not say that the Byrd was a better product. He said he would pick the Byrd over the Grizzly and went on to explain that it was because of good experiences with Holbren.

Ken, Grizzly giving you kickbacks, because you sure butt in quick at the slightest hint of criticism.

[Earl McLain]

I have had good experience with Holbren, but bought the Byrd head from Grizzly--also a good experience. Grizzly service has been good to me, parts are readily available for a long time, am quite pleased with my Grizzly joiner, scroll saw, tenon jig, and a few dozen of their router bits. Shoot, if i could buy a new table saw right now it would be a G1023. Came close to buying a 17" BS from them a few month back but ran into a Laguna so i picked it--works for me, may have been the wrong choice for others (Actually, half the money, made in Bulgaria, with new Resaw King, delivered by the seller--definitely worked for me). I'd still pick the Byrd head if i was doing it again because it worked for me. If i chose to replace the head on my Grizzly joiner, it would probably be a Byrd so i'd only have one style of replacement inserts to have around--not because i'd have an opinion of one head over the other. Henceforth, i'll try not to offer opinions or feedback--simply read and digest.

Nuff said.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

He did not say that the Byrd was a better product. He said he would pick the Byrd over the Grizzly and went on to explain that it was because of good experiences with Holbren.

Ken, Grizzly giving you kickbacks, because you sure butt in quick at the slightest hint of criticism.

Wrong on 2 counts Larry!

1)He says he bought his Byrd from Grizzly using a 10% coupon....then goes on to say the named person at Holbren is a good person with whom to work.

2)I have never received anything from any manufacturer or retailer for trying to see them treated fairly here at SMC.

[Larry Edgerton]

Right you are. The thing was Ken he was not bashing Grizzly, just said he would rather have a Byrd. I feel the same way, I would much rather buy from the company that is manufacturing the product. I am dealing with them right now on one for my Minimax. Yesterday they sent me manufacturing drawings to check dimensions on my rather obscure jointer so I could check sizes and see what head I have. First rate service and no middlemen that way.

Then there is the consideration on a purchase that is a long term investment which item will have consumables for as long as you need them. I like Byrd for that. Not saying they can not disappear tomorrow, but I am more willing to put my money on that horse. I had the same debate with myself when I bought my planer, went with Tersa, so far a good choice as they are still around.

Tech support? Who could be better?

[Jim Andrew]

Grizzly is offering another spiral cutterhead with more offset between the blades, looks similar to the silent power cutterhead that Felder-Hammer offers. Has anyone tried one of those cutterheads?